*Spoliers* Tour de France talk *Spoilers*

jonginge

Bassjunkieuk wrote:

cjcp wrote:

JonGinge wrote:

Get in. Did a bit better today

Heard the result on the radio. Looking foward o the highlights!

Twas excellent watching it on Eurosport - I even had to hold off going upstairs to tell the kids off for flooding the bathroom floor to watch the end :-)

Now I wonder how many more stage victories he'll get this year?

Forgot my post above would be a spoiler :oops: Still, highlights are almost on...

...and it's over to the action with Phil and Paul

Oddjob62

Was going to say today would be a stage to watch if you were a Cav fan but didn't want to jinx it.

Kieran_Burns

Interesting to see the analysis of the crash at the end. I'm glad they went back to look at that and explain it. Bloody nightmare though, right at the very end and you're going balls out; then suddenly the road vanishes :shock:

DonDaddyD

WheezyMcChubby wrote:

@DDD

Sometimes you just have to accept that you don't understand.

Don't feel bad about it.

People have tried to explain Rugby to me for the best part of 30 years and I still haven't a clue whats happening.

I'm learning. Besides everything everyone has said here made sense the moment Cav crossed the line. A moment of clarity, thanks guys.

One thing I don't understand is attacks and this is related to Evans vs The Schleck's and Sastre.

OK, Sastre was in front Evans and the Schelcks (possibly other riders) were behind Sastre. The Schelcks took turns to ride away and the riders (Evans) would ride faster to reel them back in (i.e. attack). But if they were riding off fast, why weren't they catching Sastre or why didn't Evans (after reeling a Schelck) maintain the speed to catch Sastre?

I guess I'll learn when they're in the Mountains.

OH and I reckon Contador will win, Cancellara 2nd, Evans 3rd and Armstrong 5th or 7th.... you read it here first. Edit: Wiggins either 4th or 6th (the future isn't clear on Armstong and Wiggins they've got the best story/journey to tell in this tour)

linsen

DDD, try doing what I do - I look at the pretty colours they are wearing, and the lovely shape they make when you see them from above. I am entertained (in a sympathetic way, you understand) by the mishaps / crashes, and full of amazement that the stage winners are flanked by such vacant looking "trophies" on the podium.....

cjcp

DonDaddyD wrote:

One thing I don't understand is attacks and this is related to Evans vs The Schleck's and Sastre.

OK, Sastre was in front Evans and the Schelcks (possibly other riders) were behind Sastre. The Schelcks took turns to ride away and the riders (Evans) would ride faster to reel them back in (i.e. attack). But if they were riding off fast, why weren't they catching Sastre or why didn't Evans (after reeling a Schelck) maintain the speed to catch Sastre?

The pace really yo-yo'ed up ADH last year; it wasn't consistent enough to catch Sastre.

Why didn't Evans maintain the speed?Might not have been capable of maintaining the speed ater the burst.

OH and I reckon Contador will win, Cancellara 2nd, Evans 3rd and Armstrong 5th or 7th.... you read it here first. Edit: Wiggins either 4th or 6th (the future isn't clear on Armstong and Wiggins they've got the best story/journey to tell in this tour)

I think it was Roche who suggested Spartacus (aka Cancellara) as an outside bet for the GC, but I don't see him hanging on in the mountains.

Very interesting to see Wiggins do so well in a TT with a hilly first half. He's lost weight this season and has supposedly been climbing well. Wouldn't be surprised if he goes for a breakaway like he did in 2007, possibly on a mountain stage this tie though.

I'll be surprised if Armstrong makes top 10.

edhornby

DonDaddyD wrote:

One thing I don't understand is attacks and this is related to Evans vs The Schleck's and Sastre.

OK, Sastre was in front Evans and the Schelcks (possibly other riders) were behind Sastre. The Schelcks took turns to ride away and the riders (Evans) would ride faster to reel them back in (i.e. attack). But if they were riding off fast, why weren't they catching Sastre or why didn't Evans (after reeling a Schelck) maintain the speed to catch Sastre?

I guess I'll learn when they're in the Mountains.

OH and I reckon Contador will win, Cancellara 2nd, Evans 3rd and Armstrong 5th or 7th.... you read it here first. Edit: Wiggins either 4th or 6th (the future isn't clear on Armstong and Wiggins they've got the best story/journey to tell in this tour)

it all depends on where the riders are in the GC, and on whose team also - last year sastre and the schlecks were all on the same team and all pretty close to evans, so the brothers were launching attacks to wear out evans - if he let them go they would eat into his time on the GC by the end of the stage. sastre could wait until evans was spent, then eat into his time. the stage win becomes a bonus to getting yellow

I reckon contador for the win as well but I think wiggins will be outside the top 10 as will lance

Bugly

cjcp wrote:

This is where I seem to disagree with people.

I thought Evans coped brilliantly with the sustained attempts by CSC to break him on the road to Alpe D'Huez, but I think Evans made a mistake letting Sastre go and that it was this which cost him victory. Sastre was a better TTer than Frank Schleck and he should have covered Sastre's move; he was capable of doing so. Sastre had won a mountain stage before (2003?) and was more than capable of staying away.

Maybe, but I think he couldnt react to the attacks by the schleck bros and Sastre, From memory didnt Sastre also get some tacit support from Valverde as well? Regardless Saxobank rode brilliantly and rode Evans out of the race.

Eau Rouge

cjcp wrote:

Very interesting to see Wiggins do so well in a TT with a hilly first half. He's lost weight this season and has supposedly been climbing well. Wouldn't be surprised if he goes for a breakaway like he did in 2007, possibly on a mountain stage this tie though.

Wiggins was staying with the leaders up most of the mountain stages in the Giro, which surprised a lot of people at the time and is where the idea he's been climbing well lately comes from.

Bugly

Kieran_Burns wrote:

Interesting to see the analysis of the crash at the end. I'm glad they went back to look at that and explain it. Bloody nightmare though, right at the very end and you're going balls out; then suddenly the road vanishes :shock:

NO the crash at the end of the race was due to a rider going down mid pack (orange shirt?) the riders to the left had no option but to go straight ahead - good thing the bollards were not completely across the road. Dont forget riding in the pack you cant see the road you are watching a reacting to the line of the wheel in front.

Bugly

cjcp wrote:

I think it was Roche who suggested Spartacus (aka Cancellara) as an outside bet for the GC, but I don't see him hanging on in the mountains.

Not too sure about that being a bad bet. He has Armstrong's attributes - not a pure climber but an alround rider that has a killer TT. Last year he hung on in fact he did a lot of work for the team and still hung in - if the Schlecks are down on GC and he is close to the top after the Pyrenees then team Saxo may start protecting him in earnest, hope so because that will make for an interesting race.

shoulder_of_orion

JonGinge wrote:

Shoulder of Lamb wrote:

I don't understand why they got rid of the time bonuses?/quote]

I think the bonuses were dropped due to the doping cases in the 2007 tour. Rasmussen picked up a number of bonuses before he was withdrawn. If those bonuses had gone to someone else it could have reshaped the GC result. Worse is the hypothetical situation of riders who had taken bonuses testing positive after the tour has finished. That would have more potential to change the GC than just removing the doped rider. If there had been bonuses last year Ricco (twice), Piepoli won stages doped taking bonus seconds away from Valverde, Evans and F. Schleck. Could have changed the race... a few months/years later when the doping cases had gone through the courts.

Ah, OK makes perfect sense. Pity that the dopers have to influence the rules in this way.

Bassjunkieuk

Bugly wrote:

Kieran_Burns wrote:

Interesting to see the analysis of the crash at the end. I'm glad they went back to look at that and explain it. Bloody nightmare though, right at the very end and you're going balls out; then suddenly the road vanishes :shock:

NO the crash at the end of the race was due to a rider going down mid pack (orange shirt?) the riders to the left had no option but to go straight ahead - good thing the bollards were not completely across the road. Dont forget riding in the pack you cant see the road you are watching a reacting to the line of the wheel in front.

From the analysis I saw the rider who went down was did so because he was avoiding another rider just ahead of him who'd almost missed the corner, that rider managed to correct himself and carry on riding but it was to late for him (the chap who went down) as you can't correct hugely in the middle of a pack without serious consequences! Personally I think it could have gone a lot worse as to only have 3 or 4 riders down and a few veer of course in such a bunch was very lucky.

singlespeedexplosif

Yesterday counted towards the GC, where the old style prologues did not as I recall. They were just a prestigious win for the people who could ride a good TT.
they certainly did count towards the GC. However they were so short that there would often be fractions of seconds separating the big guns, rather than the 17 sec winning victory you saw this year - thus although they counted, they made little difference overall.

Bugly

Re crashes in final km. From memory if there is a crash in the final km of a road stage then the crashed riders are given the same time as the group they were riding - so if they broke no bones and lost little skin the circus starts again for them the next day,

singlespeedexplosif

From memory if there is a crash in the final km of a road stage then the crashed riders are given the same time as the group they were riding - so if they broke no bones and lost little skin the circus starts again for them the next day,
aye. I think it's 3km now in le Tour?

Capo

For Tour newbies it's always worth buying either the official programme or one of the guides that come out with various cycling magazines at this time of year (certainly helped me out a lot when I started following the event) .

These usually contain a lot of explanation of how it all works, profiles of the leading riders and teams, plus a stage-by-stage preview in terms of what to expect (eg is it suited to sprinters, climbers, or perhaps a breakaway).

Deadeye Duck

Yeah, it's the first time I've watched it since I was a kid and was only really watching in hope of seeing a pile up, and saying "that bike looks coooool"

Bought the double pack cycling+ with the tour program, posters, dvd and other malarky. It ceretainly helped me understand what was going on and what to expect.

That and recently reading Cav's book, has given me a whole new level of respect for those that go for the green/polka-dot jerseys. Also given me a huge amount of admiration for all the lead out guys. Those guys are unbelievably selfless.

jonginge

singlespeedexplosif wrote:

From memory if there is a crash in the final km of a road stage then the crashed riders are given the same time as the group they were riding - so if they broke no bones and lost little skin the circus starts again for them the next day,
aye. I think it's 3km now in le Tour?

Yep. Used to be 1lm but they changed it a few years back.
However, that rule doesn't apply on finishes that are designated 'uphill'. Obviously those are mostly mountain stages but last year Schumacher (spit) crashed on the final hill on an otherwise reasonably flat stage and lost his yellow jersey: http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/200 ... ts/tour086

biondino

squired wrote:

Cav can actually do a decent time trial if he chooses to. Lets not forget that he comes from a track background and apparently in Manchester before the Olympics he was putting in very good times over 4km (very close to Bradley Wiggins from what I remember). Of course he knows he can win in the sprints, so why put in the effort for a top 10 in a time trial?

If my memory serves me correctly Cav has won at least a couple of prologue time trials, albeit against lesser opposition and over shorter distances. I can't recall him winning any longer efforts.

Yup, I saw Cav win the Tour of Britain prologue in Crystal palace in 2007. That was an ace day out.

dilemna

biondino wrote:

squired wrote:

Cav can actually do a decent time trial if he chooses to. Lets not forget that he comes from a track background and apparently in Manchester before the Olympics he was putting in very good times over 4km (very close to Bradley Wiggins from what I remember). Of course he knows he can win in the sprints, so why put in the effort for a top 10 in a time trial?

If my memory serves me correctly Cav has won at least a couple of prologue time trials, albeit against lesser opposition and over shorter distances. I can't recall him winning any longer efforts.

Yup, I saw Cav win the Tour of Britain prologue in Crystal palace in 2007. That was an ace day out.

Blink and you'll miss him he's soooo fast

Rich158

dilemna wrote:

biondino wrote:

squired wrote:

Cav can actually do a decent time trial if he chooses to. Lets not forget that he comes from a track background and apparently in Manchester before the Olympics he was putting in very good times over 4km (very close to Bradley Wiggins from what I remember). Of course he knows he can win in the sprints, so why put in the effort for a top 10 in a time trial?

If my memory serves me correctly Cav has won at least a couple of prologue time trials, albeit against lesser opposition and over shorter distances. I can't recall him winning any longer efforts.

Yup, I saw Cav win the Tour of Britain prologue in Crystal palace in 2007. That was an ace day out.

Blink and you'll miss him he's soooo fast

Rumour has it he's nearly as fast as LiT when she smells a scalp

knedlicky

Bugly wrote:

Prologues usually have the big guys hide, nothing to be gained from winning a prologue

Hmm, don't know about this. As well as prestiguous and financially-good for his team, a main contender can also demonstrate to the opposition his strength and determination from the onset of the Tour. In this respect it's a psychologically-worthwhile victory.

And it explains why in the last few decades, main contenders have won the prologue half the time.

For the record, of Tour winners, Hinault took the prologue 5 times, Merckx 3 times, Indurain and Armstrong each twice, and Zoetemelk once. Other main contenders who took the prologue, even though they then never did win the Tour, include Moser, Zulle and Moreau.

greg66_tri_v2.0

Today's stage - 3 - simply amazing! :shock:

DonDaddyD

Yep the boy wonder again! Can't wait to see it at 7pm

Not just that but the entire breakaway by Columbia sounded so awesome.

What is interesting was Contador being left in the second group while Armstrong was in the lead peloton with two other Astana riders - not sure if they were supporting him I can't wait till 7pm but sounded awesome.

cjcp

DonDaddyD wrote:

What is interesting was Contador being left in the second group while Armstrong was in the lead peloton with two other Astana riders - not sure if they were supporting him I can't wait till 7pm but sounded awesome.

According to Eurosport's text commentary, Contador had a face like a slapped backside.

CiB

Greg66 wrote:

Today's stage - 3 - simply amazing! :shock:

&

DonDaddyD wrote:

Yep the boy wonder again! Can't wait to see it at 7pm

Not just that but the entire breakaway by Columbia sounded so awesome.

What is interesting was Contador being left in the second group while Armstrong was in the lead peloton with two other Astana riders - not sure if they were supporting him I can't wait till 7pm but sounded awesome.

We can't all work at home & watch it live. For us paupers ITV4 at 7:00 is the daily fix. Pls don't spoil it for us.

greg66_tri_v2.0

I did try not to post a spoiler.

Trust me, today's stage is not just about the result on the line. You'll see what I mean later...

CiB

Fair point; you didn't. Maybe this thread should be avoided between 4 & 7 by those of us not wanting to know the outcome.

jonginge

DDD, can you change the title to include *spoiler*