RLJ Fools!

Retch

DonDaddyD wrote:

You know I've always wondered, how many of the "Don't RLJ" preachers drink and cycle? Do you adhere to the legal car driving limit? How many take recreational drugs? How many stick within the rigid letter of all the laws of the land? If you honestly cannot say you do follow all the laws 100% I think those very high horses need to be dismounted.

I'd not drink and ride. Simply because I'm more likely to get hurt, and do expensive damage to my bike. If I'm away to the pub the bike stays at work or at home.

I've almost certainly broken the law on occasions, but I'm still quite happy to dislike RLJing. And all other types of anti-social malarkey. Following your argument to its logical end, we're not able to slag off car drivers who act like idiots if we once taped the chart show off of Radio 1.

prj45

DonDaddyD wrote:

Again I defy anyone who claims that they stop at every single red lights on their commute or bike ride.

Me.

Aidy

Retch wrote:

Amen to that.

It's akin to arguing that you'd give up driving 'cos Old Bill pulled you for speeding. Good! If we want to be part of the traffic, and want to be treated like we have the right to be on the road, then we should abide by the rules of the road.

Just gotten in from riding home. One of those days where every set of lights was red, but that's life. The people who rode straight past me when stopped at a red didn't get home much faster, but they did take a risk and break the law.

We're all happy enough to slag cyclists who behave badly when we're driving - the shoe goes on both feet.

That's a really poor comparison.

Drivers are educated and have to pass a test in order to be permitted to drive on the road. They're also in vehicles which endanger others to a far greater degree.

It has far more in common with punishing a child on their first day of school for eating sweets because she saw other children doing it. Do you expect the child to wish to return to school the following day?

[Edit] For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not arguing that we shouldn't expect cyclists to follow the rules, I'm arguing that this is the wrong way to enforce it.[/Edit]

Aidy

DonDaddyD wrote:

You know I've always wondered, how many of the "Don't RLJ" preachers drink and cycle? Do you adhere to the legal car driving limit? How many take recreational drugs? How many stick within the rigid letter of all the laws of the land? If you honestly cannot say you do follow all the laws 100% I think those very high horses need to be dismounted.

What *really* gets me is all of the people who preach about not RLJ because it's illegal, and yet think it's perfectly valid to stop past the stop line when there's a red light(see the thread about motorcyclists in cycle boxes).

rolf_f

Aidy wrote:

What *really* gets me is all of the people who preach about not RLJ because it's illegal, and yet think it's perfectly valid to stop past the stop line when there's a red light(see the thread about motorcyclists in cycle boxes).

But you could use the same argument to say
"What *really* gets me is all of the people who preach about not murdering people because it's illegal, and yet think it's perfectly valid to stop past the stop line when there's a red light"

Ultimately, going past the stop line surely is both considerably less endangering to others and yourself than RLJ and it is also considerably less damaging to cyclist reputations amongst other road users. I've never heard a comment from a motorist complaining about cyclists creeping past stop lines but loads about RLJ.

roger_merriman

Rolf F wrote:

Aidy wrote:

What *really* gets me is all of the people who preach about not RLJ because it's illegal, and yet think it's perfectly valid to stop past the stop line when there's a red light(see the thread about motorcyclists in cycle boxes).

But you could use the same argument to say
"What *really* gets me is all of the people who preach about not murdering people because it's illegal, and yet think it's perfectly valid to stop past the stop line when there's a red light"

Ultimately, going past the stop line surely is both considerably less endangering to others and yourself than RLJ and it is also considerably less damaging to cyclist reputations amongst other road users. I've never heard a comment from a motorist complaining about cyclists creeping past stop lines but loads about RLJ.

indeed while it doesn't follow the law to the letter, it follows the spirit of it.

Aidy

Rolf F wrote:

Ultimately, going past the stop line surely is both considerably less endangering to others and yourself than RLJ and it is also considerably less damaging to cyclist reputations amongst other road users. I've never heard a comment from a motorist complaining about cyclists creeping past stop lines but loads about RLJ.

I suspect you'll find they lump it all into the category of RLJ.

I'm a cyclist, I'm a motorist, I'm a pedestrian.
If anything, I find stopping beyond the stop line more annoying.

In many cases, it positions the cyclist beyond the point where they can see the traffic lights, meaning they either end up finishing going across whilst the light is still red, or they impede the smooth flow of the rest of the traffic. It leaves them vulnerable to vehicles (especially wide ones) moving across the junction perpendicularly, and often they partially block the pedestrian crossing. That's not to mention that in several places where this occurs, they must weave through pedestrians who are taking advantage of the red light to make their crossing, both where an official crossing exists, and where it doesn't.

Mike Healey

linoue wrote:

It's late at night, dark, cold and you want to get home. You're on a well lit road, you can see up the road, not a car in sight, the pavement is empty and you are approaching lights, which will turn red when you get there. It's not a junction just a crossing, not another living soul in sight. Do you stop at the red lights or do you ride through?

Not if there are 2 police vans and 8 policemen on either side of the road.
If a cyclist is so unobservant that they fail to notice the police presence and carry on RLJing, then they should be removed from the road for their own safety.

SCIDSY

Chaz.Harding

When I'm on my bike, I ALWAYS stop for reds. Regardless of how stupidly obvious it is that it's clear to go. IE, roadworks if you can see up the road, way past the lights.

There's only ever been one occaision where I've jumped a red, and that was steaming down a hill, where a pedestrian crossing was round a corner. The light turned red as I saw it, but was going too fast to stop in the wet. I'd have probably fallen off, so carried on. Luckily, no peds were in the road. And yeah, I felt like a complete tw@t for doing it too.

However, I can understand jumping reds, IF your life is endangered by not doing so. IE, an articulated truck pulls alongside you turning left, you are going straight on. ESPECIALLY if you may think he's not seen you. But again, only if you are 110% sure the road is clear ahead...

I'm not saying I agree all the time. I don't. The vast, vast majority of the time, it just makes us 'sensible' cyclists, look like knobs to joe-public. But there are circumstances where it makes more sense to jump it, than to not. But it is very very very rare. That is my point! 8)

ellieb

How about this: I'm opposed to littering. I would never drop litter... but what if you were eating a mars bar and then you happened to notice an evil megalomaniac about to press the red button to launch a nuclear weapon which will wipe out London & the only way you can stop him is by throwing that mars bar with both hands right into his eyes but if you do you will drop the mars wrapper and it will blow away & become a piece of litter. Well, if your answer is that you would throw that mars bar how can you condemn other people who can't be arsed to walk 3 feet and drop their KFC carton into the bin.

Why is that when the question of RLJ comes up someone always comes up with the reductio ad absurdum arguments about going through a red light in the middle of Wales at 3 in the morning. It ain't the same thing as doing it in the rush hour in the middle of London when surounded by other commuters. If people only did it when nobody else was around then it wouldn't be a problem, cos nobody would know. If a tree falls in a forest etc etc...

But they don't: The stupid tw*ts always do it in full view of other road users and it gives all of us a bad name.

cuthbertrogergaylord

Some guy this morning at the junction where Kennington park joins oval decided to go through the red light at a pedestrian crossing when tehre was already a bus stopped across the crossing (i.e. making it blind for the cyclist and pedestrian), he missed some ped by a whisker and just carried on, a split second later he'd have taken him out.

Moronic and inexcusable really.

georgio15

right. i have had enough of all these people saying they don't jump lights. I do. frequently in fact. if ever there is a red light and noone around, i am thorugh it like a falsh. similarly, when i can cross one side of the road i do, and they wait for the other side to be clear before contiuning with my RLJ.

i have had two incidents concerning RLJ. first one, i went over a red light and got hit by a car, my fault completely. ironically, i hadn't actually meant to. (it was on new kings road, where the junction with wandsworth bridge road is and i wasn't concentrating, saw cars filtering left and carried on)

second one, pulled up at a red light next to a police car, on a t junction. no cars coming, so i pulled through. couple minutes later i got stopped by that police car. they asked me if i had realised i had gone through a red ligth to which i replied did you realise you were in the designated cycle stopping area. he got back in his car and drove off.


now, both times i was very lucky it didn't turn out worse. I seem to bounce and my sharp wit obviously through him.

i don't think its a good thing, but i am not going to say it should never be done.

discuss on the that people.

Aidy

I think what annoys me most is lack of consideration for others.

If a red light jumper endangers or inconveniences others, then I'll be annoyed.

If they can move cleanly across the lights, causing no delay or danger to those around them, then it really doesn't bother me in the slightest. And regardless of some of those with stronger opinions on this forum, I believe that there are situations in which this is the case.

People riding inconsiderately, yet legally, wind me up much more.

DiggingDeeper

I don't (RLJ) but I don't care if you do.
You become my next target.
Not because I think you are a law avoiding person, but I really don't think it matters much to your time and gives me some achievable target to aim at and get past.
If you do it time and time again, as you do, it just gets me to where I want to be faster.
I do creep past the white line, so I am no saint, especially if it has some nice metail railing to support me so I don't have to unclip.
If you ride that badly you will get knocked down and killed and that will be that. You can ride like a saint and still get killed (possibly be some RLJing herbert, but let's not go there)
If I had a pound for every set of lights I have sat at while most cyclist rode thro staring at me like I was a piece of dogs droppings I would be a rich man. But then if you gave me another pound for when I overtook them 100 yards later I would be even more wealthier.

If you want to jump a light, you go for it, just don't bleet on endlessly trying to justify your actions. I appreciate there are a number of racing snakes that frequent this site, but I will still beat most of the RLJers to wherever we are going. Stopping at lights is very good to recover the last 2 minutes of heart burn.

Aidy

DiggingDeeper wrote:

I don't (RLJ) but I don't care if you do.
You become my next target.

I love playing that game

Gussio

The King's Road could have used a RLJ trap this morning. Those of us stopping at the lights were in a minority.

Rockbuddy

georgio15 wrote:

right. i have had enough of all these people saying they don't jump lights. I do. frequently in fact. if ever there is a red light and noone around, i am thorugh it like a falsh. similarly, when i can cross one side of the road i do, and they wait for the other side to be clear before contiuning with my RLJ.

i have had two incidents concerning RLJ. first one, i went over a red light and got hit by a car, my fault completely. ironically, i hadn't actually meant to. (it was on new kings road, where the junction with wandsworth bridge road is and i wasn't concentrating, saw cars filtering left and carried on)

second one, pulled up at a red light next to a police car, on a t junction. no cars coming, so i pulled through. couple minutes later i got stopped by that police car. they asked me if i had realised i had gone through a red ligth to which i replied did you realise you were in the designated cycle stopping area. he got back in his car and drove off.


now, both times i was very lucky it didn't turn out worse. I seem to bounce and my sharp wit obviously through him.

i don't think its a good thing, but i am not going to say it should never be done.

discuss on the that people.

Advertisement for not jumping lights if ever I read one...numpty :roll:

il_principe

DonDaddyD wrote:

Again I defy anyone who claims that they stop at every single red lights on their commute or bike ride.

Oh come on DDD. I stop at every red light on my commute (Rush Hour, London) why is that so hard an idea to entertain? I see plenty of people jumping while I wait, but I always catch them. I used to have words with folk, now I'm quite zen about it, but there's really no point in doing it. I could jump them but I see no benefit for anyone in my taking that risk.

Mickey Eye

I red light jump but I always stop first and make sure it is actually clear, and I'll make sure it's clear by edging forward over the white line. Take me away officer.

I get RLJ'd at speed regularly, and places where it isn't clear or can't be seen to be clear. The "their risk" brigade can bugger off though. They put other road users at risk too.

Rich158

It always amazes me the excuses cyclists come up with to justify RLJ :roll: If you ride on the road you should abide by the laws governing traffic, full stop, no excuses. The argument that bikes are less dangerous is bull crap, less dangerous to who, the car who is forced to swerve into the path of an oncoming vehicle due to your poor judgement.

Personally I stop at all red lights, only filter to the front when it is safe to do so, and generally ride my bike as though I was driving my car. This also extends to drinking and riding, it's not just my safety that is at stake but the safety of all other road users as I drunkenly weave through the traffic on my way home.

woohooooo, Victor is back :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

roger_merriman

indeed while i've no love for lights, any way gives one a chance to breath, after you've been "not racing"....

lost_in_thought

Victor is back? Where?

Rich158

Me, I'm being a miserable old bastard again :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Normal service will be resumed when I change my avatar

DonDaddyD

jashburnham wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Again I defy anyone who claims that they stop at every single red lights on their commute or bike ride.

Oh come on DDD. I stop at every red light on my commute (Rush Hour, London) why is that so hard an idea to entertain?

You know what? I stopped at every single red light during this mornings commute (on the bike) and didn't even give it a second thought...

Can I make the same claim during today's commute back home? I'm not sure.

Personally I find it hard to believe that there are people who stop at every single red light encountered in every single situation.

lost_in_thought

Rich158 wrote:

Me, I'm being a miserable old bastard again :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Normal service will be resumed when I change my avatar

Oh you meant victor meldrew. I thought you meant victor ludorum.

jonginge

DonDaddyD wrote:

jashburnham wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Again I defy anyone who claims that they stop at every single red lights on their commute or bike ride.

Oh come on DDD. I stop at every red light on my commute (Rush Hour, London) why is that so hard an idea to entertain?

You know what? I stopped at every single red light during this mornings commute (on the bike) and didn't even give it a second thought...

Can I make the same during today's commute back home? I'm not sure.

Personally I find it hard to believe that there are people who stop at every single red light encountered in every single situation.

You're right. I once went through a RL when directed to by a police officer.
Edit: I've also cycled on the footpath when directed to by a police officer

roger_merriman

DonDaddyD wrote:

jashburnham wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Again I defy anyone who claims that they stop at every single red lights on their commute or bike ride.

Oh come on DDD. I stop at every red light on my commute (Rush Hour, London) why is that so hard an idea to entertain?

You know what? I stopped at every single red light during this mornings commute (on the bike) and didn't even give it a second thought...

Can I make the same during today's commute back home? I'm not sure.

Personally I find it hard to believe that there are people who stop at every single red light encountered in every single situation.

in all but most extreme situation, i do stop, no i will not jump reds at night but i will if say the lights fail or what ever. but thats a vanisngly small amount.

bigmat

JonGinge wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

jashburnham wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Again I defy anyone who claims that they stop at every single red lights on their commute or bike ride.

Oh come on DDD. I stop at every red light on my commute (Rush Hour, London) why is that so hard an idea to entertain?

You know what? I stopped at every single red light during this mornings commute (on the bike) and didn't even give it a second thought...

Can I make the same during today's commute back home? I'm not sure.

Personally I find it hard to believe that there are people who stop at every single red light encountered in every single situation.

You're right. I once went through a RL when directed to by a police officer.
Edit: I've also cycled on the footpath when directed to by a police officer

Have you exceeded the speed limit on your bike? Isn't that illegal? :?

DonDaddyD

roger merriman wrote:

in all but most extreme situation, i do stop, no i will not jump reds at night but i will if say the lights fail or what ever. but thats a vanisngly small amount.

Riding through South Norwood, Thorton Heath, and Mitchem at late night I very rarely stop for nothing and no one, unless at a junction. Its a personal safety issue. Much like driving a car with the doors locked.

Same with a late night commute through Peckham, Camberwell, Cold Harbor Lane and parts of Streatham. I very rarely stop, unless at a junction.

jonginge

MatHammond wrote:

JonGinge wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

jashburnham wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Again I defy anyone who claims that they stop at every single red lights on their commute or bike ride.

Oh come on DDD. I stop at every red light on my commute (Rush Hour, London) why is that so hard an idea to entertain?

You know what? I stopped at every single red light during this mornings commute (on the bike) and didn't even give it a second thought...

Can I make the same during today's commute back home? I'm not sure.

Personally I find it hard to believe that there are people who stop at every single red light encountered in every single situation.

You're right. I once went through a RL when directed to by a police officer.
Edit: I've also cycled on the footpath when directed to by a police officer

Have you exceeded the speed limit on your bike? Isn't that illegal? :?

Yes.