RLJ Fools!

mrc1

On the Essex Road/Canonbury Road crossroads this morning there was a RLJ trap set up by the Police which I have to say brought a big smile to my face.

I just don't get some cyclists. I never jump red lights - but it was blindingly obvious that the police were in the area (I.e. big riot van parked and filming the junction outside Essex Road station and two police officers at each side of the junction) and that it was therefore a particularly bad idea to RLJ the junction, yet there was at least five or six people being given tickets by the Police as I went through. The mind really boggles with these sort of people.

I am all for the Police doing this sort of thing and maybe if more cyclists did obey the rules of the road then we would stand a better chance of having our gripes about cars stopping in the ASLs etc taken more seriously!

Sorry rant over

Aidy

When that's been done blatantly because there are more cyclists on the roads due to the tube strike, it all reeks of being done purely for money making purposes.

Fining cyclists when it may well be their first attempt to cycle in isn't exactly going to encourage them to continue it.

I think this is pretty shockingly anti-cycling behaviour. I hope they were also fining motorists for stopping at the ASL.

Greg T

I think RLJing is anti cycling behaviour.

il_principe

Greg T wrote:

I think RLJing is anti cycling behaviour.

+1

mrc1

I see your point about the putting people off factor but it could not have been more obvious that the police were present for that very reason. If you are stupid enough to cycle through a red light on a busy junction while 8 police officers and 2 camera vans are within 20 metres of you then you deserve a fine.

I also don't think that saying "It is my first time commuting" can be used as an excuse. If you have never ridden on roads before then a) why on earth are you jumping red lights and putting yourself in danger and b) It is better to stop you on Day 1 before RLJ gets ingrained in your cycling.

PS I totally agree on the ASL point - unfortunately the cars when I was there had all cottoned onto the police presence and were holding well back.

daviesee

Hi,

If cyclists don't obey the rules of the road, how can we complain about others?

Our moral high ground gets erroded by these numptys.

DonDaddyD

Let the balls FLY!!!! Big flappy ones.

Again I defy anyone who claims that they stop at every single red lights on their commute or bike ride.

OK picture the scene.

It's late at night, dark, cold and you want to get home. You're on a well lit road, you can see up the road, not a car in sight, the pavement is empty and you are approaching lights, which will turn red when you get there. It's not a junction just a crossing, not another living soul in sight. Do you stop at the red lights or do you ride through?

Simonb256

So what are we saying today?

Do not RLJ, and people who do shouldnt be stopped?
This seems a little contradictory.

Besides if it is someones first time commuting on the bike, and they are put off. Good. We really dont need another cyclist who things road laws etc don't apply to them.

Maybe they are there not to 'make money' but rather to possibly stop people from RLJ'ing? by having a more visable presence, (the fines are for those who not only break the law, but decide to break the law in the view of the police who are clearly visable).

People need to stop reading so much into tabloids, they are only there to provoke responses and seem to be doing it well, too well...

Think for yourselves people!!!

artaxerxes

It's late at night, dark, cold and you want to get home. You're on a well lit road, you can see up the road, not a car in sight, the pavement is empty and you are approaching lights, which will turn red when you get there. It's not a junction just a crossing, not another living soul in sight. Do you stop at the red lights or do you ride through?

Not if there are 2 police vans and 8 policemen on either side of the road.
If a cyclist is so unobservant that they fail to notice the police presence and carry on RLJing, then they should be removed from the road for their own safety.

robmanic1

I reckon it's ok as long as you wear a helmet

DonDaddyD

The only reason police fine cyclist is because they're a soft touch in helping them meet their targets.

As it is the rules aren't complete enough to provide cyclists enough protection on the road. The same junction in Streatham (Christchurch road) has, yet again, another white bike attached to it (Christchurch road turning left onto Streatham high street). I've seen at least 3 (maybe 5) of those bikes at that spot this year!

So no I don't think its justified to fine cyclists because they may RLJ to safety. I've been at that junction (mentioned above) at the front but positioned to the left because I'm turning left and the left lane can go either left or straight on so an early position helps when turning left. I had a HGV pull up beside me (not behind me). Wedged I couldn't go backwards so I promptly went through the lights to safety. Now tell me I shouldn't have RLJ in the same situation where others have died!?

Kieran_Burns

DonDaddyD wrote:

Let the balls FLY!!!! Big flappy ones.

Again I defy anyone who claims that they stop at every single red lights on their commute or bike ride.

OK picture the scene.

It's late at night, dark, cold and you want to get home. You're on a well lit road, you can see up the road, not a car in sight, the pavement is empty and you are approaching lights, which will turn red when you get there. It's not a junction just a crossing, not another living soul in sight. Do you stop at the red lights or do you ride through?

I stop.



The ONLY time I RLJ is at an empty pelican crossing. If there is no one even remotely looking like they are going to cross I will slowly go through. That is the only time

roger_merriman

DonDaddyD wrote:

Let the balls FLY!!!! Big flappy ones.

Again I defy anyone who claims that they stop at every single red lights on their commute or bike ride.

OK picture the scene.

It's late at night, dark, cold and you want to get home. You're on a well lit road, you can see up the road, not a car in sight, the pavement is empty and you are approaching lights, which will turn red when you get there. It's not a junction just a crossing, not another living soul in sight. Do you stop at the red lights or do you ride through?

I stop same as i do in the car. about the only things that i will jump where very slow changing tempory lights on the mountain roads nr my folks place, where at 4am since i could see the other side and a fair distance past i wasn't going to wait 5 mins while they changed.

I don't like lights much at all, i like zebra crossings and roundabouts as a rule, be that on foot/bike/car

Greg T

Robmanic1 wrote:

I reckon it's ok as long as you wear a helmet

It's a balance game - I think if you are wearing a flourescent Sam Browne you can't get pregnant either.

Or you are less likely to in any case.

alfablue

DonDaddyD wrote:

Let the balls FLY!!!! Big flappy ones.

Again I defy anyone who claims that they stop at every single red lights on their commute or bike ride.

OK picture the scene.

It's late at night, dark, cold and you want to get home. You're on a well lit road, you can see up the road, not a car in sight, the pavement is empty and you are approaching lights, which will turn red when you get there. It's not a junction just a crossing, not another living soul in sight. Do you stop at the red lights or do you ride through?

Stop at the red light.

If it fails to change after a reasonable time, I get off and walk across.

Sorry, I just can't do it!

Deadeye Duck

If a light is red, you stop. End of story.

Just because you percieve the area to be clear, doesnt mean it is.

daviesee

DonDaddyD wrote:

Let the balls FLY!!!! Big flappy ones.

Again I defy anyone who claims that they stop at every single red lights on their commute or bike ride.

OK picture the scene.

It's late at night, dark, cold and you want to get home. You're on a well lit road, you can see up the road, not a car in sight, the pavement is empty and you are approaching lights, which will turn red when you get there. It's not a junction just a crossing, not another living soul in sight. Do you stop at the red lights or do you ride through?

Okay, you got me on that one. I will go through in that cicumstance, although I never ride at night. Cycling is dangerous enough in daylight. It is just the same as I will cross the road before the green man, if safe.

Same scene at a junction though? I always stop, and wait.

il_principe

Oh dear God let's not have this debate again!

_Brun_

Deadeye Duck wrote:

Just because you percieve the area to be clear, doesnt mean it is.

That's a really stupid statement.

roger_merriman

_Brun_ wrote:

Deadeye Duck wrote:

Just because you percieve the area to be clear, doesnt mean it is.

That's a really stupid statement.

not really, some really don't seem to check that it is safe to go and just rely on the world is big, I am small.....

cee

so the car drivers saw the police and didn't go into the ASL's (at least for the time you saw...)

But loads of cyclists went through and were fined....or had their stupid tax deducted.

owenlars

This is really simple. It's against the law don't do it. If you do do it and you get caught or run over take the consequences and don't bleat. If you feel strongly about it campaign to get the law changed as in the proposed left filter rules. Being caught RLJing is optional.

bluesacs

I think people should RLJ is they feel comfortable with it, it is usually quite safe to do so and in a lot of cases puts you in a safer position. I know some people will immediately see red, if you do STOP. Thanks.

And I also think it's unlikely there is any chance of getting pregnant wearing a fluorescent Sam Browne belt. But I suppose on the interweb there are even groups for that.

Aidy

Simonb256 wrote:

Besides if it is someones first time commuting on the bike, and they are put off. Good. We really dont need another cyclist who things road laws etc don't apply to them.

Maybe they are there not to 'make money' but rather to possibly stop people from RLJ'ing?

We do need more cyclists. I don't want to see anyone put off.
Education takes place over time, telling people cyclists don't belong on the roads is really a large part of the problem.

If they weren't there to make money, they wouldn't be issuing fines. Stopping them and issuing a warning would be perfectly sufficient, and not be discouraging.

mrcartledge wrote:

I also don't think that saying "It is my first time commuting" can be used as an excuse. If you have never ridden on roads before then a) why on earth are you jumping red lights and putting yourself in danger and b) It is better to stop you on Day 1 before RLJ gets ingrained in your cycling.

I'm not justifying RLJ, I'm criticising the police action.
However, given as the popular press has given so much attention to cyclists RLJ, it's slightly understandable that people who are new to commuting think that this behaviour is the norm, and emulate it.

I really think that the correct attitude should be to educate, not punish.

Soul Boy

Seen a Police swoop in the City too, with the same results. Loads of police in hi-vis and still cyclists RLJ. If they're unaware that threre are a dozen or so officers in hi-viz (and I believe you must wear hi-viz to be seen, or so people seem to think) hanging around the junction, exactly how well have they checked the junction to ensure their manoeuvre is safe*???

Its been said above "If they weren't there to make money, they wouldn't be issuing fines", but could be looked at this way 'If people weren't RLJing the Police wouldn't be handing out fines'.

I would also like to see the Police enforcing the ASL, but reckon that'll never happen, so maybe we are an easy target, but only IF you choose to RLJ.

Anyway, this has been debated at length and you either do, or don't. I don't think any amount of words will change peoples perception of whether its right or wrong


*I don't RLJ and don't see the argument that RLJing is safer.

simon_ramsey

There isn't any need to debate this all the while that a selfish minority RLJ we will never get any respect from motorists - period. Yes there are rare occasions such as the incident DDD mentions when it is safer to do so but 99% of the time there is no reason why you should not stop.

Deadeye Duck

_Brun_ wrote:

Deadeye Duck wrote:

Just because you percieve the area to be clear, doesnt mean it is.

That's a really stupid statement.

Do please explain.

_Brun_

Deadeye Duck wrote:

_Brun_ wrote:

Deadeye Duck wrote:

Just because you percieve the area to be clear, doesnt mean it is.

That's a really stupid statement.

Do please explain.

How about "Just because you're standing in the middle of an empty field, doesn't mean there aren't any cows"?

robmanic1

^^^^^^^

Deadeye Duck

_Brun_ wrote:

Deadeye Duck wrote:

_Brun_ wrote:

Deadeye Duck wrote:

Just because you percieve the area to be clear, doesnt mean it is.

That's a really stupid statement.

Do please explain.

How about "Just because you're standing in the middle of an empty field, doesn't mean there aren't any cows"?

If the statement was stupid, there would never be any accidents. Nobody would jump out infront of you knowing you were coming, they'd wait. Nobody would come round a corner too fast and into an oncoming car if they knew it was there, they'd slow down etc...

you can only see the world from your point of view.

What if you see the crossing to be clear and then as you get within metres of it, some child comes sprinting out of an alley next to it and across it, seeing that the light is red, they wouldnt expect cars or bikes to be crossing it would they.

CyclingBantam

Deadeye Duck wrote:

If a light is red, you stop. End of story.

Just because you percieve the area to be clear, doesnt mean it is.

Sorry I just can't have this. 1st off I don't jump lights but for an extreme circumstance (Extreme as in I have done it once in 2.5 years of commuting 4 days a week). but you are telling me, you would get to a, hypothetical, light in the middle of nowhere. A road that you can see for a mile in each direction and there is nobody wanting to cross at the crossing and you would stop and sit waiting for the potentially broken light to go green? I'm sorry but I really can't believe that. It surely is about common sense.

Note - This is not encouraging RLJ. It is re-affirming DDD's point about extreme circumstances.