Giro stage 17 - Blockhaus (spoiler)
Comments
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No reply to why Menchov is not a great and Contador is, afx237vi. Good, I thought it was case closed too.
alanmcn1, with your 22 years of experience I am sure you are aware of who rode on the team whose jersey is in your avatar. Yes Merckx and Tom Simpson, the undisputed king of greatness who was an attacker through and through, and someone who pushed himself to unbelievable limits. Maybe you should get a Rabo jersey on the avatar.
An attack that fails is not stupid. I for one like these fliers however futile. They are exciting and they please the fans. They make you memorable. With a peloton of over 100, if you don't do something do you think you will be rememberd.
Remember when Contador bonked in Paris-Nice then lost the jersey? Well, and I quote direct from Contador:
"When I lost the jersey but then went for it the next day, I got more messages of congratulations for the stage then sometimes I've had for some victories".
You can see that Di Luca is really going for it even though he lost the jersey. That is why the fans like him so much.
Further quotes direct from Contador which reinforces my points:
"errors are what you most learn from"
"I don't ride just to accumulate victories. I ride, above all, because I really enjoy competing."
"At the same time, it's tough for me just to go to a race for training, it doesn't work for me."
"I like to attack."
"There are races when I have to attack, go for it in each climb, and that's something that the fans like. I like being a rider who attacks more, I prefer it when there's a lot going on because it makes it more interesting."
There is a great with respect to attitude and it just so happens that he has the great with respect to results to go with it. Maybe they are correlated. Either way, that is why Contador is my favourite rider. Attitude is everything.
Note also that Menchov said that he would fly like an eagle to Rome. Maybe he has picked the wrong animal. Maybe he goes for it tomorrow and wins his jersey with style rather than doing it in a TT which is 'machine'. Let's hope so.Contador is the Greatest0 -
iainf72 wrote:donrhummy wrote:This has been an AMAZING giro but I am sad that Levi just didn't have it. I still think he's hurt by his fear of taking risks. I think if he were willing to lose it all, he'd still be on the podium right now. Oh, well.
I'm now convinced you're completely mad Don.
It's been a tepid Giro. If it wasn't got Basso on Sunday and Sastre on Monday it would've been tedium on wheels.
Levi's podium finishes have been riding in support of someone else in GT's. He's not cut out for leading a team during a grand tour. He's a great week long stage race rider though.
I think you have Levi down to a tee
It hasn't been the greatest tour, I'm still waiting for fireworks, think I will have to make do with a couple of sparklers, like you say Basso and Sastre0 -
frenchfighter wrote:Note also that Menchov said that he would fly like an eagle to Rome. Maybe he has picked the wrong animal. Maybe he goes for it tomorrow and wins his jersey with style rather than doing it in a TT which is 'machine'. Let's hope so.
You know he won a mountain stage too?
Bertie didn't even win a stage last year. Dennis has bagged 2.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
Blazing Saddles wrote:Yes, Menchov hasn't exactly covered the magia rosa in glory, but it's exactly what you would expect from a big diesel, that's running on the right mix.
Still, he did show the strain, today. A small crack it might be, but if offers the possibility of excitement on Versuvius and even stage 20.
Overall, though, a pretty poor Giro, excitement wise. That 5kms would definitely have made a major difference to today's finishing times, as it had the steepest ramp somehwere on it.
I expect someone will be along soon, to tell me I've got it all wrong.
Youve got it wrong
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Re Giro 2008.
You know who was Astana's leader: Levi, not Contador - he didn't even go there as leader and still won.
Also, do you remember what he was doing a week before the Giro. On vacation as I recall when Astana got a last minute call up.
And for those people who like the Cycling Quotient ranking system, you can have three guesses as to who is leading.
Greatness.
Re Stage wins this Giro.
Di Luca:
1st, Stage 4
2nd, Stage 5
3rd, Stage 8
1st, Stage 10
6th, Stage 12
3rd, Stage 16
Menchov:
9th, Stage 4
1st, Stage 5
21st, Stage 8
3rd, Stage 10
1st, Stage 12
2nd, Stage 16Contador is the Greatest0 -
frenchfighter wrote:No reply to why Menchov is not a great and Contador is, afx237vi. Good, I thought it was case closed too.
alanmcn1, with your 22 years of experience I am sure you are aware of who rode on the team whose jersey is in your avatar. Yes Merckx and Tom Simpson, the undisputed king of greatness who was an attacker through and through, and someone who pushed himself to unbelievable limits. Maybe you should get a Rabo jersey on the avatar.
An attack that fails is not stupid. I for one like these fliers however futile. They are exciting and they please the fans. They make you memorable. With a peloton of over 100, if you don't do something do you think you will be rememberd.
Remember when Contador bonked in Paris-Nice then lost the jersey? Well, and I quote direct from Contador:
"When I lost the jersey but then went for it the next day, I got more messages of congratulations for the stage then sometimes I've had for some victories".
You can see that Di Luca is really going for it even though he lost the jersey. That is why the fans like him so much.
Further quotes direct from Contador which reinforces my points:
"errors are what you most learn from"
"I don't ride just to accumulate victories. I ride, above all, because I really enjoy competing."
"At the same time, it's tough for me just to go to a race for training, it doesn't work for me."
"I like to attack."
"There are races when I have to attack, go for it in each climb, and that's something that the fans like. I like being a rider who attacks more, I prefer it when there's a lot going on because it makes it more interesting."
There is a great with respect to attitude and it just so happens that he has the great with respect to results to go with it. Maybe they are correlated. Either way, that is why Contador is my favourite rider. Attitude is everything.
Note also that Menchov said that he would fly like an eagle to Rome. Maybe he has picked the wrong animal. Maybe he goes for it tomorrow and wins his jersey with style rather than doing it in a TT which is 'machine'. Let's hope so.
Indurain was a machine, was he not great?
Many say Lance won his Tours like a machine, is he not a Great?0 -
"Pantani was poetry in motion..."
Just so. Beautiful to watch. TOP man. Keep the rest for me.d.j.
"Cancel my subscription to the resurrection."0 -
FF I have no idea who you're arguing with or why you're trying so hard to convince us of Contador's greatness. We all know Contador is a great and I'm pretty sure almost every member of this forum is a fan of his.
Menchov obviously rides in a different style to Contador, but the object of a bike race is to get to the finish line faster than your opponents. It doesn't matter how you do it. A win is a win, and any rider who wins a grand tour is a great in my book.0 -
Lance may be a Tour de France great but in nothing else is he great.
Indurain was before my time so I cannot really comment much on him. Except however that his greatness comes from the fact he has won 7 grand tours (Giros and Tours) amoungst a whole raft of other wins. Menchov has won two Vueltas.
I found these quotes which you may like to read:
"If I had been born with an aggressive character, then maybe my palmares would have been longer." Indurain.
"You'd see him there, attacking, with that smile on his face, and you couldn't tell whether he was tired, faking it or laughing at you." Chiapucci.
But as I am not biased I also read: He rode defensively in the mountains conserving his time gains in the TTs.
It sounds like he was a similar rider to Menchov. Maybe I would have preferred other riders, I cannot say.
However, most importantly, you are insinuating that I said Menchov is a machine therefore he is not a great. I am sorry, but you are wrong. If you actually read my posts you will understand why I do not think he is a great.Contador is the Greatest0 -
^ He's like aurelio's long-lost non-Lance-fixated twin with those quotes.
No offence.0 -
eurosports replay coverage was an abortion..
they put km25 mis-edited before KM35 and didn't show Pelli's or armstrongs attack
red card
bad showing from sastre...oh dear.."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
iainf72 wrote:I'm now convinced you're completely mad Don.
It's been a tepid Giro. If it wasn't got Basso on Sunday and Sastre on Monday it would've been tedium on wheels.
Levi's podium finishes have been riding in support of someone else in GT's. He's not cut out for leading a team during a grand tour. He's a great week long stage race rider though.
I've said the same thing elsewhere and been hauled over the coals.
I think tepid beautifully describes this edition of my fav race.
Depends how many ones seen, I suppose. Or maybe it has something to do with the combatants? :?"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Blazing Saddles wrote:iainf72 wrote:I'm now convinced you're completely mad Don.
It's been a tepid Giro. If it wasn't got Basso on Sunday and Sastre on Monday it would've been tedium on wheels.
Levi's podium finishes have been riding in support of someone else in GT's. He's not cut out for leading a team during a grand tour. He's a great week long stage race rider though.
I've said the same thing elsewhere and been hauled over the coals.
I think tepid beautifully describes this edition of my fav race.
Depends how many ones seen, I suppose. Or maybe it has something to do with the combatants? :?
basically only just got going after 2 weeks.... could be interesting finish in rome if DDL gets back the jersey... he has two pops at it... the day after Vesuvius looks promising for him"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
The Prodigy wrote:If you want attacking off the front in the pursuit of glory, thats the beauty of the classics is it not?
Spot on.
Only way to get a really exciting GC race is to juice everyone up, late '90s style, and see them yoyo up mountains in record time! :roll: The Italains love that!
Menchov's not a thick rider- makes up for his legs which arn't always top notch. (or at least, Rabobank seem to get their GC tactics spot on once they get the jersey, unlike their classics tactics)
Can hardly expect him to attack when he knows another TT is coming up, and he's up against riders who can more than match his attacking capability.Note: the above post is an opinion and not fact. It might be a lie.0 -
Odd that we have the top two riders on GC separated by 26 seconds, with mountainous stages and a TT still to come, and people are complaining of it being boring!
Blaze I would say though ,if it is boring it is due more to the style of the protagonists than the course (but then I would say that).Le Blaireau (1)0 -
alanmcn1 wrote:
Alberto is potentially a great, but he hsan't done what big Mig or Anquetil have...............oh wait they were wheel suckers who won all their tours in time trials................
I seem to remember standing on a few mountains and Indurain passing by with the usual suckers on his wheel., Rominger, Le Blanc who nip by to take the stage and my Favorite.
Riis with eyeballs bulging, the year before he increased the jet fuel to win a TDF.
In my book the Banesto team would get him to the lower slopes and then did he go.
I'm afraid I wouldn't be a fan if he had been a Wheel Sucker himself.
He was able to turn the little gears on a mountain and the "BIG" windmill gears in a TT.
Oh he won the Giro and the TDF in the same year TWICE.Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 19720 -
an abortion?0
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Tepid, just tepid.DaveyL wrote:Blaze I would say though ,if it is boring it is due more to the style of the protagonists than the course (but then I would say that).
Iain's got it right. Not bad, but certainly not great."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
I think its been a pretty good race, but mainly down to the course...0
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Blazing Saddles wrote:
Tepid, just tepid.DaveyL wrote:Blaze I would say though ,if it is boring it is due more to the style of the protagonists than the course (but then I would say that).
Iain's got it right. Not bad, but certainly not great.
In terms of excitement id say pretty average in fact not unlike Menchovs' 2nd Vuelta win. Also dont know about you but i am kinda warming to Menchov these days he is showing he knows how to win a Grand Tour even if he isnt too flamboyant about it. If he can minimise the damage from Bertie's attacks in the Tour he is in with a great shout.Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
The only one always having a go rather than playing poker is Garzelli and he's no chance of winning it
Echoes of 2000 today: the way Menchov lost the wheel at the end reminded me of Casagrande about 4 days from the end of that year's Giro -- an uphill bunch sprint won by Garzelli that gave first hint of weakness -- then Casagrande cracked and lost it all on the last mountain stage (a time trial to Sestrieres) after being in pink for 10 days.
But somebody has to make Rabobank work tomorrow.0 -
Menchov style is similar to Indurain, but with a big difference, when big Mig rode like this he had 4-5 min, not 40".
On monday I think Dennis could even won the stage, but he is too conservative when he is "super" and allways finish the GT very bad (it happen last Tour before Alpe d´Huez when he was the stronger)
La Vuelta 2007 was a exception, but we are talking about the worst route of a GT in last ten year (just a HC climb, Lagos de Covadonga, in the first week and any real mountain stage).
Now my fauvorite is Di Luca, I think that in Vesubio he is gonna stay with Basso and Sastre and Dennis is going to explote...If you like Flandes, Roubaix or Eroica, you would like GP Canal de Castilla, www.gpcanaldecastilla.com0 -
deejay wrote:alanmcn1 wrote:
Alberto is potentially a great, but he hsan't done what big Mig or Anquetil have...............oh wait they were wheel suckers who won all their tours in time trials................
I seem to remember standing on a few mountains and Indurain passing by with the usual suckers on his wheel., Rominger, Le Blanc who nip by to take the stage and my Favorite.
Riis with eyeballs bulging, the year before he increased the jet fuel to win a TDF.
In my book the Banesto team would get him to the lower slopes and then did he go.
I'm afraid I wouldn't be a fan if he had been a Wheel Sucker himself.
He was able to turn the little gears on a mountain and the "BIG" windmill gears in a TT.
Oh he won the Giro and the TDF in the same year TWICE.
You missed my ponts from earlier threads, I am saying Big Mig is second only to Mercx as my all time cycling great...............he wasn;t exactly an attacking machine. I think his climbing ability was underarted as he was up against Chiappucci's attacks in mountains (convcited doper) and Zulle (convicted doper)Robert Millar for knighthood0 -
The user and all related content has been deleted.0
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This hasn't been a great GT, but then I'm not sure we've had a really good one since TdF '03 or Giro '04.
For example, when was the last time a GV contender attacked BEFORE the last col? Ullrich & Cunego maybe, and only the latter made it stick*. GTs are unfortunately getting pretty formulaic compared to the Classics**.
*And no, I don't count Floyd for various reasons.
** although Flanders is getting pretty predictable!___________________
Strava is not Zen.0 -
'05 Giro was pretty good, as long as you employ several of the usual caveats...Le Blaireau (1)0
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calvjones wrote:This hasn't been a great GT, but then I'm not sure we've had a really good one since TdF '03 or Giro '04.
For example, when was the last time a GV contender attacked BEFORE the last col? Ullrich & Cunego maybe, and only the latter made it stick*. GTs are unfortunately getting pretty formulaic compared to the Classics**.
*And no, I don't count Floyd for various reasons.
** although Flanders is getting pretty predictable!
You wait till Ballan and Cancellara are fit for Flanders again!Note: the above post is an opinion and not fact. It might be a lie.0 -
Annihilation. No riposte is possible.
Faces of pain...for some. Photo: Sirotti.
Contador is the Greatest0
