Ethnicity and the Cycling

passout

[I think tbh that ethnicity is more a barrier in the heads of those who find themselves in a perceived ethnic minority. The fact that a british person can come from humble beginnings and go on to success in cycling should be enough for anyone to follow regardless of colour.[/quote]

Disagree with the above quote. The term ethnic minority is simply about race and numbers it has nothing to do with perception (positive or negative). Perceptions, stereotypes etc may become attached to ethnic minorities but that is a separate issue - much more to with socio-cultural influences, individual opinion and it can't easily be measured. Put it another way people's race doesn't change but attitudes to race do - one is fact and one is opinion. Even peoples attitude towards their own race does shift over time.

I think bringing class (humbe origins) into it just confuses the issues as you could split any ethnic group up by class anyway.

I also think that race may not be 'barrier' - nobody is stopping ethnic minorities from taking up cycling. In fact I'm sure that they would be encouraged if interest was shown.

Clearly though there is often a link between race and culture. There is also a link between culture and sport e.g. how many of you play Baseball? Another example - the Koran says that men & women should dress modestly. The interpretation of this by many Muslims 'may' make them less likely to partake in a sport which made colourful skin tight lycra popular! Culture informs & influences our choices. If some ethnic minorities choose not to do a certain sport because of their cultural hertage then I do not see that as a problem which needs fixing - just a difference.

What do you think??

hisoka

I'm white British but there are rumours that I have Ursine blood close in my heritage (or de-evolving to a previous form of humanity is the other theory around here)

In my work place we had a large group (well about 20) of us do the London to Brighton last year. There was large mixture of heritages there from our workplace. I even saw a ginger chap out in the sun! (Please don't hit me, this is a micky take of my boss at work mostly hehehe).

lost_in_thought

Yeah, my use of the word perceived was incorrect.

don_don

DonDaddyD wrote:

"Ay bruv/blood ur nuts ya get me!"

Or

"Ay bruv that's a mission blood, dems be far to ride, Manz must be nuts!"

This is generally from both my white and black friends as these days you generally can't tell the difference in accent/dialect.

I know its supposed to be 'cool', but I must admit it makes me laugh when I hear white teenagers trying to talk 'ghetto' (if that's not an inappropriate phrase) to each other. Then they are straight back into their real accents as soon as the parents turn up :roll:

You see it on TV quite a lot too. I suppose its good that Black culture is seen as cool, but I suspect its more to do with the Gangsta Rap scene than anything.

AyrshireBacon

I'm White Scottish - where men are men and sheep are nervous

But riding in Norwich (one of the least diverse places in the country) it is difficult to judge any sort of ethnic trends.

il_principe

biondino wrote:

In decreasing order of blood: Italian - Scottish - English - Irish - Australian (the latter being 1/32 - a great-great-great-grandfather who was probably british anyway - but it's exotic so I'll leave it in!)

There's nothing exotic abaat Austraalia Mate.

lost_in_thought

jashburnham wrote:

biondino wrote:

In decreasing order of blood: Italian - Scottish - English - Irish - Australian (the latter being 1/32 - a great-great-great-grandfather who was probably british anyway - but it's exotic so I'll leave it in!)

There's nothing exotic abaat Austraalia Mate.

Now that I do agree with... apart from of course the wildlife, the location, the scenery, the aboriginal culture... The aussies, on the other hand...

DonDaddyD

lost_in_thought wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

I think tbh that ethnicity is more a barrier in the heads of those who find themselves in a perceived ethnic minority.

As I sit here, the only black person in HQ at work I disagree with you. In this Country I am part of an ethnic minoirty group. For me, what is important is what it means to me. All it means is that there are less black people in this Country than white people. Yes there are other implications but none of that has ever been a barrier for me.

DDD, you've clearly done well for yourself, and I know nothing about your background apart from what you've said on here. I think it's great that it's not a barrier for you, I applaud you for that, however I think others in an ethnic group other than 'white' see their colour as something that stands in their way, which I just don't think is true any more.

I was lucky LiT, one fateful day I knocked on a persons - who would become my best friend and whose daughter I am God Father to, he is Italian there is no greater honor - door and it truly is how amazing a conversation can open your eyes and World to countless possibilities. (He went to Alleyns - private school in Dulwich and my School doesn't exist anymore it was that bad). That's why I think its important to give everyone a chance.

I admit that I have a unusal (often flawed way at looking at the World) and I agree some still see their colour as a barrier. But while I will say that there are less excuses for ethnic minorities to (i) achieve (ii) to feel that they are not accepted because of their colour. There are still barriers and prejudice in place against ethnic minorities.

pintoo

jashburnham wrote:

I rarely see Asian (as in Indian, Pakistani etc) guys on bikes, in fact I'm not sure I ever have in London. A bit odd this really.

It is odd. There aren't many of us. I ride everyday as part of my commute, but I don't see other Asians on bikes. I have some thoughts about why that might be, but don't want to get all socio-political. Just felt I should put my brown/"British Indian" hand up as a London cyclist.

DonDaddyD

passout wrote:

Clearly though there is often a link between race and culture. There is also a link between culture and sport e.g. how many of you play Baseball? Another example - the Koran says that men & women should dress modestly. The interpretation of this by many Muslims 'may' make them less likely to partake in a sport which made colourful skin tight lycra popular! Culture informs & influences our choices. If some ethnic minorities choose not to do a certain sport because of their cultural hertage then I do not see that as a problem which needs fixing - just a difference.

What do you think??

Well effing said!

dewei

Born in Mauritius but of Chinese ethnicity.

I have been cycling a lot in Birmingham, Coventry, Stratford and Warwick. What is striking is that most cyclists are White. So much so that you do notice non-white cyclists. It feels like that I have not spotted more than 10 non-white cyclists in the last year. I am too busy to join a cycling club. However, whilst looking at local cycling club websites, I have felt a bit put off joining given seems to be all White.

When I was still living in Mauritius, cycling was the main means transport for the working people (indian/black). They are on scooters/ motorbikes now. Racing was and is still done by White and Black but not Indians or Chinese.

Quite obviously there are a lot of sociocultural factors.

passout

Jashburnham or whatever.... agreed - Austrialins are not exotic: my in-laws are testiment to that! Plus it's not a race is it? Alot of Aussies I've met seem really proud of their suppoosed prisoner heritage, but how do they know that the are not related to prison guards?

To get back to the question & earlier posts though. I think 'culture' is the thing here, not race.

DonDaddyD

don_don wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

"Ay bruv/blood ur nuts ya get me!"

Or

"Ay bruv that's a mission blood, dems be far to ride, Manz must be nuts!"

This is generally from both my white and black friends as these days you generally can't tell the difference in accent/dialect.

I know its supposed to be 'cool', but I must admit it makes me laugh when I hear white teenagers trying to talk 'ghetto' (if that's not an inappropriate phrase) to each other. Then they are straight back into their real accents as soon as the parents turn up :roll:

You see it on TV quite a lot too. I suppose its good that Black culture is seen as cool, but I suspect its more to do with the Gangsta Rap scene than anything.

Lol - Gangsta Rap - was so 90s. It's Grime now (British HipHop) the kind I'm trying to slowly steer my brother away from.

I disagree with what you've said though, there are places in London where this is just how people (Mum, Dad and children regardless of ethnicity) talk and 'ghetto' is there actual lifestyle. Come down to Croydon and we'll go on safari around some Estates... I'll get the Escalde, pack the stab proof vests and load the 9mm.... Oh and have a bag of weed at the ready I hear it's currency around them parts.

Wear a hood.

pintoo

lost_in_thought wrote:

I think others in an ethnic group other than 'white' see their colour as something that stands in their way, which I just don't think is true any more.

With respect, that would be like me telling you that being female is no hindrance to your prospects. In some spheres, that might be true, but it's just not a universal truth yet.

don_don

DonDaddyD wrote:

There are still barriers and prejudice in place against ethnic minorities.

A work colleague of mine is Asian. He is about the same age as me so we both went to school in the 70s/80s - not that long ago (shut it you young pups ).

He distinctly recalls being told by his teachers that he would amount to nothing and would end up with no qualifications, doing a manual job. And yes, it was because of his ethnicity. I was seriously shocked by that.

I hope it isn't like that in our schools now. I suspect it isn't, but its not really all that long ago

(Shut it again, all you young pups )

il_principe

DonDaddyD wrote:

don_don wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

"Ay bruv/blood ur nuts ya get me!"

Or

"Ay bruv that's a mission blood, dems be far to ride, Manz must be nuts!"

This is generally from both my white and black friends as these days you generally can't tell the difference in accent/dialect.

I know its supposed to be 'cool', but I must admit it makes me laugh when I hear white teenagers trying to talk 'ghetto' (if that's not an inappropriate phrase) to each other. Then they are straight back into their real accents as soon as the parents turn up :roll:

You see it on TV quite a lot too. I suppose its good that Black culture is seen as cool, but I suspect its more to do with the Gangsta Rap scene than anything.

Lol - Gangsta Rap - was so 90s. It's Grime now (British HipHop) the kind I'm trying to slowly steer my brother away from.

I disagree with what you've said though, there are places in London where this is just how people (Mum, Dad and children regardless of ethnicity) talk and 'ghetto' is there actual lifestyle. Come down to Croydon and we'll go on safari around some Estates... I'll get the Escalde, pack the stab proof vests and load the 9mm.... Oh and have a bag of weed at the ready I hear it's currency around them parts.

Wear a hood.

Ah Croydon, Jewel of South London

passout

Lets face it, there are barriers (eg Aparthied) and then there are barriers - see new US President. Personally, I think that the most significant barrier in the UK is class. I think that we could have a Black Prime Minister in the UK but we would be less likely to have a truely working class one. Been a racist is taboo to the vast majority of white British but taking the piss out of 'CHAVs' seems fair game.

girv73

White, Irish going back about 500 years, French before that. I'm told my ancestors were Huguenots and fled from France to Ireland in the 1500's sometime.

lost_in_thought

DonDaddyD wrote:

I was lucky LiT, one fateful day I knocked on a persons - who would become my best friend and whose daughter I am God Father to, he is Italian there is no greater honor - door and it truly is how amazing a conversation can open your eyes and World to countless possibilities. (He went to Alleyns - private school in Dulwich and my School doesn't exist anymore it was that bad). That's why I think its important to give everyone a chance.

I admit that I have a unusal (often flawed way at looking at the World) and I agree some still see their colour as a barrier. But while I will say that there are less excuses for ethnic minorities to (i) achieve (ii) to feel that they are not accepted because of their colour. There are still barriers and prejudice in place against ethnic minorities.

See now in my book it doesn't matter who a person is or where they come from or what they look like, or where they went to school, if they're willing to work for it they can achieve what they want.

I think some people see colour/class/whatever as a barrier to that, and almost hide behind it, using it as an excuse. You are right that there are some prejudices in place against ethnic minorities, but I really think they are becoming ever fewer. Look at Obama, for god's sake, if there was ever an example for disappearing prejudice it's him.

don_don

dewei wrote:

Born in Mauritius but of Chinese ethnicity.

I have been cycling a lot in Birmingham, Coventry, Stratford and Warwick. What is striking is that most cyclists are White. So much so that you do notice non-white cyclists. It feels like that I have not spotted more than 10 non-white cyclists in the last year. I am too busy to join a cycling club. However, whilst looking at local cycling club websites, I have felt a bit put off joining given seems to be all White.

When I was still living in Mauritius, cycling was the main means transport for the working people (indian/black). They are on scooters/ motorbikes now. Racing was and is still done by White and Black but not Indians or Chinese.

Quite obviously there are a lot of sociocultural factors.

Teachers/Trainers call that 'live data' - in the here and now, from real individual experience.

I know some might say its your own perception that's putting you off dewei, but if people are put off joining cycling clubs in this day and age, because of apparent ethnic imbalance, then there is something going wrong.

Its not a matter of fault, or blame, but clubs need to realise that they could do more to attract a more diverse membership (whether that be ethnicity, age, sex or whatever). Its not hard, it just requires a bit of imagination.

DonDaddyD

don_don wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

There are still barriers and prejudice in place against ethnic minorities.

A work colleague of mine is Asian. He is about the same age as me so we both went to school in the 70s/80s - not that long ago (shut it you young pups ).

He distinctly recalls being told by his teachers that he would amount to nothing and would end up with no qualifications, doing a manual job. And yes, it was because of his ethnicity. I was seriously shocked by that.

I hope it isn't like that in our schools now. I suspect it isn't, but its not really all that long ago

One of the things I truly believe is this:

The racism experienced now is nothing compared to that experienced by my parents (60s - 80s) and even more so my Grandparents. It's still there (often covertly) and shouldn't be overlooked. But it's nowhere near what my parents (Greg66 generation lol) experienced.

As for ethnic cyclists.

Cutural influence. If Snoop Dogg and Dizzee Rascal rapped about rolling on 700c and owning blinged up bikes, if Linford was a cyclist and not a Sprinter you'd get more black people giving it a go.

biondino

don_don wrote:

dewei wrote:

Born in Mauritius but of Chinese ethnicity.

I have been cycling a lot in Birmingham, Coventry, Stratford and Warwick. What is striking is that most cyclists are White. So much so that you do notice non-white cyclists. It feels like that I have not spotted more than 10 non-white cyclists in the last year. I am too busy to join a cycling club. However, whilst looking at local cycling club websites, I have felt a bit put off joining given seems to be all White.

When I was still living in Mauritius, cycling was the main means transport for the working people (indian/black). They are on scooters/ motorbikes now. Racing was and is still done by White and Black but not Indians or Chinese.

Quite obviously there are a lot of sociocultural factors.

Teachers/Trainers call that 'live data' - in the here and now, from real individual experience.

Unless, of course, you're talking about bike accidents involving helmets, in which case these are just "anecdotes" and must be ignored.

Jamey

DonDaddyD wrote:

Come down to Croydon and we'll go on safari around some Estates..

Oh, are you coming over later? I'll make some punch.

Or, more seriously... You're in Croydon, I'm in Croydon, fancy going out for a ride sometime? I need to start some training for the Dunwich Dynamo.

And my ethnicity is cracker-ass honky

lost_in_thought

pintoo wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

I think others in an ethnic group other than 'white' see their colour as something that stands in their way, which I just don't think is true any more.

With respect, that would be like me telling you that being female is no hindrance to your prospects. In some spheres, that might be true, but it's just not a universal truth yet.

I have to say, that were you to tell me that I would heartily agree with you!

biondino

DonDaddyD wrote:

Cutural influence. If Snoop Dogg and Dizzee Rascal rapped about rolling on 700c and owning blinged up bikes, if Linford was a cyclist and not a Sprinter you'd get more black people giving it a go.

Was it on here a few months ago that someone linked to an article or video or something about the pimping of old, knackered, heavy bikes by working class youths in... I can't remember, Dominican Republic or Mexico or somewhere? They would cut up bits of plastic etc. and use it to make vibrantly-coloured, individual machines in the same way people pimp cars, only for vastly less cash!

biondino

Sorry, was completely wrong, it was in the US (Oakland in particular) and they're called "Scraper bikes", for example:

don_don

DonDaddyD wrote:

Lol - Gangsta Rap - was so 90s. It's Grime now (British HipHop) the kind I'm trying to slowly steer my brother away from.

I disagree with what you've said though, there are places in London where this is just how people (Mum, Dad and children regardless of ethnicity) talk and 'ghetto' is there actual lifestyle. Come down to Croydon and we'll go on safari around some Estates... I'll get the Escalde, pack the stab proof vests and load the 9mm.... Oh and have a bag of weed at the ready I hear it's currency around them parts.

Wear a hood.

Busted! Ok, I'm an old fart, what can I do?

I don't disbelieve you about the 'Croydon' thing. You live in a much, much larger melting pot than I, and I'm sure there is real mixing of accents etc.

I was referring to places like Cheltenham where I live, and to some of the kids programs I've seen, where young people are putting on a 'ghetto' accent to look cool and it is obviously fake. Point taken though, and I'd love to take you up on your offer of a tour!!

Not sure Rapha do anything with a hood. I'll check.....

biondino

At my private school it was funny to see a certain section of my classmates suddenly crossing over to the wrong side of the tracks, accent-wise, though I doubt it lasted beyond their front door in Esher or Weybridge or wherever...

don_don

biondino wrote:

don_don wrote:

dewei wrote:

Born in Mauritius but of Chinese ethnicity.

I have been cycling a lot in Birmingham, Coventry, Stratford and Warwick. What is striking is that most cyclists are White. So much so that you do notice non-white cyclists. It feels like that I have not spotted more than 10 non-white cyclists in the last year. I am too busy to join a cycling club. However, whilst looking at local cycling club websites, I have felt a bit put off joining given seems to be all White.

When I was still living in Mauritius, cycling was the main means transport for the working people (indian/black). They are on scooters/ motorbikes now. Racing was and is still done by White and Black but not Indians or Chinese.

Quite obviously there are a lot of sociocultural factors.

Teachers/Trainers call that 'live data' - in the here and now, from real individual experience.

Unless, of course, you're talking about bike accidents involving helmets, in which case these are just "anecdotes" and must be ignored.

Meeeeeeooooooowwwwwww

Clever Pun

prawny wrote:

White with a ginger beard

YES

Welsh and English parentage brought up in England. I consider myself English