Shimano and Campagnolo systems

Clever Pun

might it be an idea to head to the pub

one person show campagness while Biondino can show shimanos weird brake levers and bucket hoods

that way you can see what feels best on your hands...

lost_in_thought

STOP debating.

Jash, Biondino, I know (roughly) where both of you live, and I WILL come round and kick you in the shins.

Whyamihere, you *may* get away with it this time.

although this:

biondino wrote:

doesn't feel like someone dropped a parking metre into a wood chipper

did make me laugh.

Littigator wrote:

So LiT...once you've got your super dooper zippy bike.................

will you start wearing a helmet (hee hee)

ducks and runs for cover

NO! Unless I'm made to.

And stop running away! I may be a cripple at the minute but I'll catch you eventually.

il_principe

I've not slagged off Shimano, merely pointed out that as the owner of both CAMPAGNOLO IS BETTER.



Has anyone written MTFU on your cast yet?

DonDaddyD

If I spent the money on a Viner or Wilier (The DonDaddy's choice) there is no way in hell I'd put Shimano on it.

Even if I preferred Shimano, I would learn to love Campag. Like most things passionately Italian, its sticking points is what gives it character its those things you fall in love with.

Its like having an Apple Computer with the Windows Operating system loaded onto it.... :shock: ....Wierd!

biondino

DonDaddyD wrote:

Like most things passionately Italian, its sticking points is what gives it character its those things you fall in love with.

So how come this doesn't work with me? I'm an Italian thing!

DonDaddyD

biondino wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Like most things passionately Italian, its sticking points is what gives it character its those things you fall in love with.

So how come this doesn't work with me? I'm an Italian thing!

I love you


:shock:

itboffin

whyamihere wrote:

Always Tyred wrote:

whyamihere wrote:

biondino wrote:

Campag is all expensive style over substance, and every time you change gear it sounds like someone has just run a plough into your rear mech.

Except that it's cheaper than Shimano.

? No it isn't - its notoriously over priced! ?

Price up a Veloce groupset against 105 (same component level) or Centaur against Ultegra. You'll see.

+1

Just look at my most recent post on the workshop thread, the cheapest shifters I could find are Campagnolo but even then a new set will be £60+ compared to Shimano eqiv. £120 which is heart breaking when you find out mid way through a build

Thankfully there are some nice people out there to come to the rescue

wildmoustache

for 2009 I'd day DA now = Record. About the same on weight and price.

Super Record and (possibly) Red are a level above DA, although Red's claim is tenuous as it is based on lower weight and ceramic bearings ... against which it's noisier and IMO tackier than DA 7900 ... I'd rather take 7900.

Chorus does trump Ultegra SL. Lighter and it has 11 speed and carbon bits.

I like the aesthetic and more sensous quality of carbon. Carbon cranks are also a damn site easier to remove pedals from IME. They don't expand and contract like metal does.

Ask yourself this ... if you were given £5k to kit out a bike you couldn't sell what groupset would you put on it. I suspect most of us would go for Super Record. I would.

lost_in_thought

OK....

What *are* the sticking points of Campag/Shimano? Be honest - there must be things that annoy users of both. You won't lose the great debate because it isn't happening. No it isn't. OK??

And furthermore, ahem, the other questions?

Is it hard to shift the front mech with your thumb on the Campag system? I ride almost exclusively on the hoods, if that helps.

Is the campag button a lever or a button? i.e. are you pushing it into the hood or along?

Can you shift more than one sprocket with one push with both systems?

Are the concealed gear cables a problem for adjustment/servicing?

Littigator

DonDaddyD wrote:

If I spent the money on a Viner or Wilier (The DonDaddy's choice) there is no way in hell I'd put Shimano on it.

Even if I preferred Shimano, I would learn to love Campag. Like most things passionately Italian, its sticking points is what gives it character its those things you fall in love with.

Its like having an Apple Computer with the Windows Operating system loaded onto it.... :shock: ....Wierd!

Why's that when Wilier carbon frames are made in Taiwan? :?

Incidentally, I'll be selling my bike soon it's a non brand Wilier frame copy with full DA/FSA and Fulcrum 3s if you're in the market for a budget sub 8kg race bike

gert_lush

OK I have nothing meaningful to add to this "non debate" I just love the thought of LiT going around and kicking you all in the shins for debating the nondebatable subject

itboffin

PS. I tried SRAM (Road/MTB) & Modolo as well both of which felt unnatural to me.

The 105/Ultegra set up on my Trek is very nice, smooth, quiet and quick but then so is the Chorus on my tourer - oh I'm so confused :?

lost_in_thought

jashburnham wrote:

I've not slagged off Shimano, merely pointed out that as the owner of both CAMPAGNOLO IS BETTER.



Has anyone written MTFU on your cast yet?

Jash, you are incorrigible.

And no, no writing on the cast at all! It's such a short time between cast replacements that it doesn't seem worth it!

DonDaddyD

Littigator wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

If I spent the money on a Viner or Wilier (The DonDaddy's choice) there is no way in hell I'd put Shimano on it.

Even if I preferred Shimano, I would learn to love Campag. Like most things passionately Italian, its sticking points is what gives it character its those things you fall in love with.

Its like having an Apple Computer with the Windows Operating system loaded onto it.... :shock: ....Wierd!

Why's that when Wilier carbon frames are made in Taiwan? :?

Incidentally, I'll be selling my bike soon it's a non brand Wilier frame copy with full DA/FSA and Fulcrum 3s if you're in the market for a budget sub 8kg race bike

Mere technicality, its heart is an Italian Bike.

How much, any pictures?

itboffin

Littigator wrote:

Incidentally, I'll be selling my bike soon it's a non brand Wilier frame copy with full DA/FSA and Fulcrum 3s if you're in the market for a budget sub 8kg race bike

Using the money to buy a mountain bike eh! :twisted:

il_principe

lost_in_thought wrote:

jashburnham wrote:

I've not slagged off Shimano, merely pointed out that as the owner of both CAMPAGNOLO IS BETTER.



Has anyone written MTFU on your cast yet?

Jash, you are incorrigible.

And no, no writing on the cast at all! It's such a short time between cast replacements that it doesn't seem worth it!

WTFU then MTFU.

ffs.

whyamihere

lost_in_thought wrote:

OK....

What *are* the sticking points of Campag/Shimano? Be honest - there must be things that annoy users of both. You won't lose the great debate because it isn't happening. No it isn't. OK??
Shimano: The hoods aren't comfortable for me (this is personal though, you need to test them)
Floppy levers can be bloody scary when braking hard, they wander around under your fingers. Doubt it will be a problem, but it's not pleasant...

Campag: More limited wheel availability due to the cassettes using a different spline system to Shimano/Sram

And furthermore, ahem, the other questions?

Is it hard to shift the front mech with your thumb on the Campag system? I ride almost exclusively on the hoods, if that helps.

Easy as falling off a log. Just push your thumb down or sweep your middle finger across from the hoods, similar from the drops.

Is the campag button a lever or a button? i.e. are you pushing it into the hood or along?

Lever. It pushes around the hood

Can you shift more than one sprocket with one push with both systems?

Shimano: Multiple shifts to larger cogs/rings (the brake lever). Single shifts to smaller (the other lever)

Campag: All '09 have Ultrashift, which does multiple shifts both ways. '07 and '08 it was only Chorus and Record which did this.

Are the concealed gear cables a problem for adjustment/servicing?

Not particularly. The sticking out gear cables on Shimano would be easier to change, but you're likely to need to change the brake cables at the same time anyway, which means you still need to retape the bars. In any case, it's only the first run of outer which is different, meaning inners and the other run of outer can be changed just as easily on either system.

Tempestas

I have used all three systems now and find Sram to be on par with both, so do not rule them out.

When I got into riding I was always into Campag, started with Gran Sport and eventually had a Corsa Record equipped Daccordi, it worked brilliantly. Then I had a 4 year lay off after a crash....it was a bad one

When I returned to riding I bought a Record Equipped Fondriest, all was well for a few months then bits started to fail, I thought hang on 'Campag wears in, Shimano wears out....' But it just kept falling to bits and the after sales for Campag was shocking, so I sold the bike to someone who happened to admire it one day

I went into my lbs and started chatting to the guys who said they had found this becoming more common over the years, they leant me a Shimano equipped bike for a few hours and it felt crisp and smooth. I then bought a Dura Ace equipped Principia Rex and still have it 7 years on, all I have replaced is the chain, cassette and brake blocks over the years which is a testament to how much Shimano has improved. My hack bike has Ultegra on as well and this works well and is probably more durable than the Dura Ace.

Don't get me wrong, Campag works well and I would probably buy another bike with it on one day, but Shimano has got it right at the moment.

I also think the Shimano levers are more suited to smaller hands and are easier to operate due to their light action, not as clunky as Campag, so this may also be factor for you? It would be worth trying all 3 systems to see which you prefer and find easiest to operate as well.

Ian.B

lost_in_thought wrote:

And furthermore, ahem, the other questions?

Is it hard to shift the front mech with your thumb on the Campag system? I ride almost exclusively on the hoods, if that helps.

Is the campag button a lever or a button? i.e. are you pushing it into the hood or along?

Can you shift more than one sprocket with one push with both systems?

Are the concealed gear cables a problem for adjustment/servicing?

Front mech - No, it's easy to shift the front mech with your thumb.

Button - it's really a lever, but it's round so it looks like a button sticking out. You push it down (towards the ground) and it springs back up.

I'd say the main disadvantage of 2008 and earlier Campag is that the rise on the hoods is fairly shallow, so you tend to feel that your hands might slip over the tops, especiallly in the wet (although it's never actually happened). That for me looks like one of the main improvements in the re-design of the Campag ergos for 2009, and is one of the main reasons why I've gone for the 2009 ergos for the bike I'm building - although I haven't fitted them yet.

Ian

Littigator

DonDaddyD wrote:

Littigator wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

If I spent the money on a Viner or Wilier (The DonDaddy's choice) there is no way in hell I'd put Shimano on it.

Even if I preferred Shimano, I would learn to love Campag. Like most things passionately Italian, its sticking points is what gives it character its those things you fall in love with.

Its like having an Apple Computer with the Windows Operating system loaded onto it.... :shock: ....Wierd!

Why's that when Wilier carbon frames are made in Taiwan? :?

Incidentally, I'll be selling my bike soon it's a non brand Wilier frame copy with full DA/FSA and Fulcrum 3s if you're in the market for a budget sub 8kg race bike

Mere technicality, its heart is an Italian Bike.

How much, any pictures?

A grand, I can take some pics and send them to you if you're interested

wildmoustache

despite being a campag fan i think the ultrashift mechanism advantage over shimano is a bit overrated. shimano does give consistently accurate downshifting with the one click at a time downshifting. sometimes campag can be a bit vague depending on how many sprockets you are looking to shift down. ultrashift has the edge when going into a descent and wanting to dump the lot, but you don't lose any time by clicking a few times with shimano during the descent.

il_principe

wildmoustache wrote:

despite being a campag fan i think the ultrashift mechanism advantage over shimano is a bit overrated. shimano does give consistently accurate downshifting with the one click at a time downshifting. sometimes campag can be a bit vague depending on how many sprockets you are looking to shift down. ultrashift has the edge when going into a descent and wanting to dump the lot, but you don't lose any time by clicking a few times with shimano during the descent.

It's damn handy when you're faced with a sudden & unexpected rise after a long descent, like the ones in last years Dragon Ride!

wildmoustache

jashburnham wrote:

wildmoustache wrote:

despite being a campag fan i think the ultrashift mechanism advantage over shimano is a bit overrated. shimano does give consistently accurate downshifting with the one click at a time downshifting. sometimes campag can be a bit vague depending on how many sprockets you are looking to shift down. ultrashift has the edge when going into a descent and wanting to dump the lot, but you don't lose any time by clicking a few times with shimano during the descent.

It's damn handy when you're faced with a sudden & unexpected rise after a long descent, like the ones in last years Dragon Ride!

Jash - I'm talking about the mechanism that allows you to dump all your gears ... i.e.g go towards 53x11 if you're a real man ... whereas shimano you go click,click,click

So it's when the gradient suddenly lessens that it's useful. but not as useful as some of its advocates claim IMHO.

itboffin

Littigator wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Littigator wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

If I spent the money on a Viner or Wilier (The DonDaddy's choice) there is no way in hell I'd put Shimano on it.

Even if I preferred Shimano, I would learn to love Campag. Like most things passionately Italian, its sticking points is what gives it character its those things you fall in love with.

Its like having an Apple Computer with the Windows Operating system loaded onto it.... :shock: ....Wierd!

Why's that when Wilier carbon frames are made in Taiwan? :?

Incidentally, I'll be selling my bike soon it's a non brand Wilier frame copy with full DA/FSA and Fulcrum 3s if you're in the market for a budget sub 8kg race bike

Mere technicality, its heart is an Italian Bike.

How much, any pictures?

A grand, I can take some pics and send them to you if you're interested

Bare in mind DDD that if you buy it you'll have to burn the saddle, it's had LITT's fat arse all over it :twisted:

biondino

jashburnham wrote:

wildmoustache wrote:

despite being a campag fan i think the ultrashift mechanism advantage over shimano is a bit overrated. shimano does give consistently accurate downshifting with the one click at a time downshifting. sometimes campag can be a bit vague depending on how many sprockets you are looking to shift down. ultrashift has the edge when going into a descent and wanting to dump the lot, but you don't lose any time by clicking a few times with shimano during the descent.

It's damn handy when you're faced with a sudden & unexpected rise after a long descent, like the ones in last years Dragon Ride!

Yeah but Shimano also does this.

il_principe

As I said, brain not working this arvo, not working at all.

Bottom line is try both, pick the one you prefer. Perhaps when you're healed we could arrange for you to try my chorus (assuming you've invested in lovely speedplays) v someone elses DA etc.

whyamihere

Campag's system does allow you to trim the front mech perfectly so that it will never rub. That's worth bearing in mind...

Littigator

itboffin wrote:

Littigator wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Littigator wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

If I spent the money on a Viner or Wilier (The DonDaddy's choice) there is no way in hell I'd put Shimano on it.

Even if I preferred Shimano, I would learn to love Campag. Like most things passionately Italian, its sticking points is what gives it character its those things you fall in love with.

Its like having an Apple Computer with the Windows Operating system loaded onto it.... :shock: ....Wierd!

Why's that when Wilier carbon frames are made in Taiwan? :?

Incidentally, I'll be selling my bike soon it's a non brand Wilier frame copy with full DA/FSA and Fulcrum 3s if you're in the market for a budget sub 8kg race bike

Mere technicality, its heart is an Italian Bike.

How much, any pictures?

A grand, I can take some pics and send them to you if you're interested

Bare in mind DDD that if you buy it you'll have to burn the saddle, it's had LITT's fat ars* all over it :twisted:

Not at all..not at all dear boy, it'll actually come with an almost totally new and unridden Spesh Gel Toupe

redddraggon

Tempestas wrote:

I also think the Shimano levers are more suited to smaller hands and are easier to operate due to their light action,

Unfortunately I've only got small hands, and I have and have used both Campag and Shimano, and I know you got that statement the wrong way around.

Campag hoods are far more comfortable for the small hand, and Campag is easier to shifter - it's hard to swing the big Shimano brake lever with short fingers from the drops. With Campag it's easier to shift from the drops as the paddle is closer to the bars.

lost_in_thought

Hmmmmm, interesting!

Thanks whyamihere and Ian for the answers there. Unlike onions, however, one question begets many questions...

whyamihere wrote that to change on campagnolo you can 'Just push your thumb down or sweep your middle finger across from the hoods, similar from the drops.'

Now I get the thumb bit - that article was very good - but don't understand about sweeping the middle finger across.

Also, am I right in thinking that with campagnolo you can move several gears at once in either direction, but with shimano you can only do it to bigger gears?

Lastly (for now) how true are the rumours about Campagnolo unreliability? Who's had problems and who hasn't?

For clarity, I'd be looking at either record or super, and dura-ace from Shimano. Not sure about the electrical ones though... seems a bit overcomplicated. Thoughts?

Thanks again, this is really helpful!