I just grassed a coach driver up

Big Red S

jashburnham wrote:

Big Red S wrote:

jashburnham wrote:

Always Tyred wrote:

ChrisLS wrote:

...if I had been confronted by a school bus travelling along a road with parked cars either side I would have got off my bike and let the driver through...

Yes, I think that we should all stop and pull over for any following vehicles to pass. Brilliant.

+1 What an odd thing to say. You've got as much right as a bus to be on the road, no need to pander to motorists misconceptions!

And surely that bus has as much right as you to be travelling at its normal speed?

If you're going along a road slower than most traffic would be, and so have some vehicles behind you that are going slowly because they can't overtake, are you seriously suggesting pulling over to let them pass is a bad idea as it will only pander their misconceptions?

Those wouldn't be the misconceptions about cyclists getting in the way, would they?

Yes I am. if they've been honking at me I certainly wouldn't move. If there was space then I'd tuck in, but I seriously doubt I'd actually get off my bike and wait for the traffic to pass.

I'd taken 'pull over' to mean exactly that - pulling into a space, waiting for the traffic to pass, then setting off again.
No, we're all prone to deliberately irritating someone who honks at us, but that wasn't what you said. You just said you didn't think it was fair to pull over to let vehicles pass.

Anyway the OP mentioned the road was lined with cars - nowhere to pull in and why should they have to.

There often are gaps, but even if there aren't this isn't a question of whether they should have to.
No-one is saying that the cyclist has to (I don't think anyone's even saying that all cyclists should), they're just saying that they would.
Personally, I'd much rather pull over, let the vehicles pass, then carry on on my way without having a coach up my arse.

And no they'd be misconceptions about cyclists not having the right to be on the road.

But surely if the driver behind you didn't already hold them, you riding in front of them much slower than they want to be going is far more likely to encourage them than disprove them.

snooks

The Downfader guide to using a forum:

downfader wrote:

ignore what others have said here

And just listen to me!!!

downfader wrote:

as I think you already know what you want to do. You have several options, all justified imo, and it is down to whether you think it will make a difference. Do not feel guilty - a situation happened that you could not control or expect (this I learned after my accident). The driver has put himself into a position that he shouldnt have, and if he had an issue with the original cyclist could always have radio'd in for the police to attend.

If you feel the letter option will work then perhaps mentioning in it that some might have contacted the police as this will draw out the seriousness of the situation.

Sorry. Couldn't resist that

No offense intended

il_principe

Poor buses, always having their rights infringed. I do feel for them. :roll:

Kieran_Burns

It seems to me that a coach driver carrying a group of children involved himself in an incident in which he:

drove without due care and attention committed an act of road rage verbally assaulted one member of the public threatened that same member of the public physically assaulted another

I'm not entirely sure why people are even contemplating NOT making a complaint against this individual.

It's called social responsibility. If we all make an effort when we see something is wrong rather than pander to this ridiculous idea that it is someone elses problem, we'd have a far FAR more respectful society.

downfader

snooks wrote:

The Downfader guide to using a forum:

downfader wrote:

ignore what others have said here

And just listen to me!!!

downfader wrote:

as I think you already know what you want to do. You have several options, all justified imo, and it is down to whether you think it will make a difference. Do not feel guilty - a situation happened that you could not control or expect (this I learned after my accident). The driver has put himself into a position that he shouldnt have, and if he had an issue with the original cyclist could always have radio'd in for the police to attend.

If you feel the letter option will work then perhaps mentioning in it that some might have contacted the police as this will draw out the seriousness of the situation.

Sorry. Couldn't resist that

No offense intended

I couldnt resist

symo

Cycles do not have to yield the road. It is a personal choice. If the cyclist was being followed by a bus honking it's horn he did the right thing in stopping as there was obviously a danger that the bus driver could see but the cyclist could not :evil: To get out and have a go then have a go at a bystander is wrong, end of. Vocal altercation is one thing but physical is a whole different one.

The bus company should be taken to small claims court. Then the driver may be forced to undergo some sort of talking therapy as he obviously has pyschological issues. It would be doing both the bus company and driver a tremendous help.

always_tyred

I think there's some serious wrong thinking taking place, as regards getting out of the way of other road users.

In this instance, how far would the bus have got before having to stop again? 100 yards? 200 yards? The whole point about trying to educate other road users is that in town cyclists ARE NOT holding them up, they are simply shortening the time that they will be stationary at the next set of lights of the next stop in traffic.

That is the reason that anger towards a cyclist who is "in the way" is misplaced. I find it a bit alarming that there are cyclists out there, who are no doubt also motorists, who haven't figured this out yet.

snooks

Always Tyred wrote:

That is the reason that anger towards a cyclist who is "in the way" is misplaced. I find it a bit alarming that there are cyclists out there, who are no doubt also motorists, who haven't figured this out yet.

I just like waving goodbye to drivers who have busted their nuts to get round me

Petty, but good fun non the less

Jen J

Interesting how much debate this has provoked.

WW3 broke out on the running site I use last night, prompted by someone being practically carried to the finish of the Chicago marathon, where she then collapsed fitting. There was a lot of debate over the judgement call (or lack of judgement) by the attending medics, the two guys that assisted to her the finish, and by herself for carrying on. The rights and wrongs of this were not clearcut, and very much down to personal opinion.

In the case on here, the law clearly dictates the right and wrong - the cyclist legally had as much right to the road as the bus driver, and the bus driver assaulted linsen, in the eyes of the law.

I realise there can be debate about how far the issue should be pursued, but I'm not clear about how the facts of the incident can be debated, as they seem to have been?

linsen

Right here I am again. Having pootled into town for a coffee (very pleasant), I see I have provoked a major distraction to your working days - oops!

The coach was trying to pass the cyclist - same direction

I was not assaulted but the coach driver patronisingly got hold of my arm.

The coach driver was speaking to the other cyclist at a distance of approximately 6 inches - I call that personal space

It's a valid point that road users are all entitled to space. The coach would have to have followed the cyclist for another 250yds or so before he had room to pass. So not a big deal then.

I have no idea what happened before I showed up - only what happened as I arrived. But I do know that road extremely well and I know full well how angry I would have been had the driver done that to me if I was cycling my two children to school (which I was doing this morning as it happens). I flank them further out than they are to ensure tw*ts like that give us enough room. I wonder if if would have waited patiently for us?

I have no wish to get militant, inform the police etc etc but I do get cross when the safety of vulnerable road users is compromised. Especially on a school run where my children may be involved

BTW the problem is partly caused by all the parents who drive their children 500m to school and line the road (even corners) with their cars.

spen666

Big Red S wrote:

jashburnham wrote:

Always Tyred wrote:

ChrisLS wrote:

...if I had been confronted by a school bus travelling along a road with parked cars either side I would have got off my bike and let the driver through...

Yes, I think that we should all stop and pull over for any following vehicles to pass. Brilliant.

+1 What an odd thing to say. You've got as much right as a bus to be on the road, no need to pander to motorists misconceptions!

And surely that bus has as much right as you to be travelling at its normal speed?

...

Neither the bus nor its driver has any such right

The driver has the right to use the road- no right as to the speed he wants to use it at.

My usual speed is 70mph- do I have the right to drive at that speed irrespective of the danger to other road users? - of course I don't

Big Red S

OK, perhaps I worded it a little incorrectly. But I like to think you understood what I meant by that.

rhext

I think the answer is to equip cycles with heavy weaponry. Drivers would think twice about irritating cyclists if we could turn them and their abhorrant vehicles into smoking holes in the road.

secretsam

I've only just seen this message, and don't know what other history there is between the original post and where I am now, but yes, grass him up and then some. It seems to me that drivers of PSVs (buses, coaches, etc) are getting worse and worse. I saw a bus run a clear red in London the other day, and wish I'd taken his number and got the lunatic fired.

I know there' s shortage of people willing to do these jobs - it's not easy, and there's plenty of abuse to deal with - but that's no excuse for some of the horrors that you see and hear about them perpetrating.

tailwindhome

But what about Lost_in_thought and Don


Does nobody care any more???

linsen

nope

always_tyred

Jen J wrote:

Interesting how much debate this has provoked.

WW3 broke out on the running site I use last night, prompted by someone being practically carried to the finish of the Chicago marathon, where she then collapsed fitting. There was a lot of debate over the judgement call (or lack of judgement) by the attending medics, the two guys that assisted to her the finish, and by herself for carrying on. The rights and wrongs of this were not clearcut, and very much down to personal opinion.

In the case on here, the law clearly dictates the right and wrong - the cyclist legally had as much right to the road as the bus driver, and the bus driver assaulted linsen, in the eyes of the law.

I realise there can be debate about how far the issue should be pursued, but I'm not clear about how the facts of the incident can be debated, as they seem to have been?

I had forum rage.

For me, the debate is now the general concept of moving over to let cars/busses pass.

We've long since ceased to give a monkeys about the actual incident. Sorry Linsen. :shock:

ChrisLS

...not to start another tirade...when I safely can I will move over, or if on a very narrow country lane stop and get out of the way to let approaching or following traffic come past...I usually get a wave or honk of the horn in thanks...

...I'm sorry if I started an argument... :oops:

tailwindhome

More to the point - Why do old people in the supermarket never move out of the frickin way??


Pottering around the middle of the aisle

Taking up too much space

Think they own the place

symo

Always Tyred wrote:

Jen J wrote:

Interesting how much debate this has provoked.

WW3 broke out on the running site I use last night, prompted by someone being practically carried to the finish of the Chicago marathon, where she then collapsed fitting. There was a lot of debate over the judgement call (or lack of judgement) by the attending medics, the two guys that assisted to her the finish, and by herself for carrying on. The rights and wrongs of this were not clearcut, and very much down to personal opinion.

In the case on here, the law clearly dictates the right and wrong - the cyclist legally had as much right to the road as the bus driver, and the bus driver assaulted linsen, in the eyes of the law.

I realise there can be debate about how far the issue should be pursued, but I'm not clear about how the facts of the incident can be debated, as they seem to have been?

I had forum rage.

For me, the debate is the general concept of moving over to let cars/busses pass.

From the sounds of it the cyclist had no room to move over so it was up to the bus to be patient. Might is not right in the UK. Traffic has to wait until we pass. Bicycles were on the road long before cars.

always_tyred

ChrisLS wrote:

...not to start another tirade...when I safely can I will move over, or if on a very narrow country lane stop and get out of the way to let approaching or following traffic come past...I usually get a wave or honk of the horn in thanks...

...I'm sorry if I started an argument... :oops:

Well, yes, but its an entirely different scanario then, because you actually ARE holding people up.

Like caravans. :evil:

I spent a couple of years down in Devon, where the widest road is about 2 sheep wide, and people just know how to drive in tight situations there. In fact, you can easily tell the trourists by the pickles they get into (or the smell of overheated brakes).

But, despite being able to descend from Dartmoor about twice as quick as a car (by dint of being high enough to see over a lot of the hedges/walls) I never had a car let me past.

don_don

But what about Lost_in_thought and Don

Does nobody care any more???

nope

spen666

linsen wrote:

Right here I am again. Having pootled into town for a coffee (very pleasant), I see I have provoked a major distraction to your working days - oops!

The coach was trying to pass the cyclist - same direction

I was not assaulted but the coach driver patronisingly got hold of my arm.

The coach driver was speaking to the other cyclist at a distance of approximately 6 inches - I call that personal space

It's a valid point that road users are all entitled to space. The coach would have to have followed the cyclist for another 250yds or so before he had room to pass. So not a big deal then.

I have no idea what happened before I showed up - only what happened as I arrived. But I do know that road extremely well and I know full well how angry I would have been had the driver done that to me if I was cycling my two children to school (which I was doing this morning as it happens). I flank them further out than they are to ensure tw*ts like that give us enough room. I wonder if if would have waited patiently for us?

I have no wish to get militant, inform the police etc etc but I do get cross when the safety of vulnerable road users is compromised. Especially on a school run where my children may be involved

BTW the problem is partly caused by all the parents who drive their children 500m to school and line the road (even corners) with their cars.

That IS an assault

always_tyred

For which the punishment is to be read the letter of the law by Spen.

linsen

This has an almost mafiosa ring to it.

Anyone got a spare horse?

jam1e

Whilst it would be nice to see the guy get disciplined for being a numpty, the shrill calls of "assault, assault - he touched her arm in a non violent yet possibly patronising manner!" make me think 2 things.

1. The "it's assault whenever someone touches you" brigade have led very sheltered lives and need to mtfu, whatever the actual legal position. By that logic I'm assaulted several dozen times a day.

2. If a teacher had placed their hand (non violently but possibly patronisingly) on the arm of a child who was kicking off in class and was subsequently fired for assault, a lot of people would be moaning about over reactions, etc.

Lets be honest, there are a few cyclists around who seem to take pleasure in annoying over road users, I've sat waiting to let other cyclists past whilst in my car and they've slowed right down and stopped for a drink just to be awkward. Maybe this was one of that type and deserved everything he gets...

lost_in_thought

Hey Linsen! You really have sparked quite the debate!

I reckon that the word 'assault' may be a bit strong, although it seems legally correct.

However, had I been in the same situation and the driver had touched me, I would have felt affronted and upset, as you seemingly did from the fact that you were telling him not to touch you.

That his actions were aggressive, inappropriate, perhaps even threatening, seems pretty clear, and a driver leaving his bus to berate a cyclist seems like grounds for complaint to me, especially when said bus is full of children in his care.

In your position I would write to his employer in complaint, and maybe there's a government authority like the DVLA who could be involved if that yields nothing.

I would probably stop short of going to the police, but that's just me!

linsen

Thanks, LiT,

I will not go to the police. I told him not to touch me because he was too close, not because I felt threatened. I'm really not that bothered, but I will let his employer know - a ticking off should be in order.

But not hanging from the nearest tree.

Or trial by forum

snooks

jam1e wrote:

2. If a teacher had placed their hand (non violently but possibly patronisingly) on the arm of a child who was kicking off in class and was subsequently fired for assault, a lot of people would be moaning about over reactions, etc.

Teachers haven't been allowed to "touch" a student for a loooonnnnnnng time...

The Chingford Skinhead

Interesting debate. I read a bit of it at work and it inspired my journey home. I was behind a bus crawling down the road so I went right up behind it and started ting-tinging my bell. I parked the bike up and ran up to the driver and started shouting at him. Why not, I thought, he was slowing me down :twisted: I did the same thing to every vehicle that covered the cycle lane up to the ASLs and all the cars in the ASLs. I'm all for sharing the road - so long as it is on my terms...

Only joking of course If I am clearly holding traffic up - and it hasn't been right up my rear wheel, then I'm happy to pull across where it is safe to do so and wave it through. However, if it has honked me then I'm far less reasonable