I just grassed a coach driver up

linsen

... adn I'm now feeling a bit guilty, but I'm sure I shouldn't.

He was driving a coach full of children down a school run road with cars parked either side, 200 yards from the school. As I approached the scene there was a cyclist stopped in front of him, refusing to move. He got out of the coach, got into the cyclists personal space and was uttering words to the effect of

"kind sir would you be so gracious as to move out of my way so I can progress my vehicle along the thoroughfare" (or similar).

He had been beeping at the bike to get out of the way, you see. Bike was taking up safe and justified amount of the road.

I approached and said "with the greatest respect, there wasn't room for you to get by, so you should have waited" (I actually was that poilte). He grabbed me by the arm (not roughly though), and said something I didn't listen to. I was too busy requesting he didn't touch me....

Anyway, we took a photo of the number plate and I rang the company he drives for. I told them I was most concerned about someone with aggressive tendencies driving children around, when he clearly has a distorted view of safe driving.

The man at the end of the phone told me to take it as far as I wanted.....

Clever Pun

What does take it as far as you wanted mean? that doesn't appear that helpful

Don't feel guilty at all fro grassing him up he had no right to touch you

linsen

Clever Pun wrote:

What does take it as far as you wanted mean? that doesn't appear that helpful

Don't feel guilty at all fro grassing him up he had no right to touch you

Not sure what he meant by that. I think he meant that if I want to complain I should, and he certainly didn't defend the driver at all... In fact he was very apologetic

Clever Pun

linsen wrote:

Clever Pun wrote:

What does take it as far as you wanted mean? that doesn't appear that helpful

Don't feel guilty at all fro grassing him up he had no right to touch you

Not sure what he meant by that. I think he meant that if I want to complain I should, and he certainly didn't defend the driver at all... In fact he was very apologetic

but surely you were ringing to complain?

girv73

Ooo, big tough driver picking on girls.

Don't feel bad. No matter what went on between the bus and the other cyclist, he shouldn't have grabbed you IMHO. If you take it forward, probably he'll just get a boll**king from his boss and might think twice before doing it again.

linsen

girv73 wrote:

Ooo, big tough driver picking on girls.

Don't feel bad. No matter what went on between the bus and the other cyclist, he shouldn't have grabbed you IMHO. If you take it forward, probably he'll just get a boll**king from his boss and might think twice before doing it again.

That'd be good enough. I don't want the poor sod to lose his job just because he got out of bed the wrong side.

always_tyred

No, don't feel guilty. The bus driver was at work. In most jobs, if you grabs someone forcibly and/or shout abuse at someone, you get fired. On top of that, the guy is responsible for kids. At the very least a reassignment is in order.

Tranced

That'd be good enough. I don't want the poor sod to lose his job just because he got out of bed the wrong side.

And if it was your kid on that bus???? Would you want someone of that disposition driving?
Someone that may fly off the handle in "road rage"?
Never mind his job... it's the 1. safety of others at risk & 2. example he's setting to the kids.

The man at the end of the phone told me to take it as far as I wanted.....

i.e. he's not really going to do anything about it based on a phone call but if you were to put the incident in writing etc. etc. they would have to take action, but knows full well you'll probably never go so far etc. etc

linsen

Oh I will definitely write a letter. And I know the other cyclist will too. The driver picked on the wrong guy there!

always_tyred

linsen wrote:

girv73 wrote:

Ooo, big tough driver picking on girls.

Don't feel bad. No matter what went on between the bus and the other cyclist, he shouldn't have grabbed you IMHO. If you take it forward, probably he'll just get a boll**king from his boss and might think twice before doing it again.

That'd be good enough. I don't want the poor sod to lose his job just because he got out of bed the wrong side.

No, its worse than that. He stopped, got out of his vehicle and got very close to inflicting violence (and by some measures did). Anyone who does that, ever, is capable of doing it at any time and, in all likelihood, lives life behind the wheel in a constant state of being just about to lose it. Would you want someone like that supervising children... oh, wait, he already does.

Its a big hassle to complain, and there is a danger that I am superimposing my own past experiences onto your story, but you shouldn't feel guilty about the consequences to the guy if you feel strongly enough to take it forward.

UnworthyPapaLazaru

Get him emptied.

linsen

thanks. I shall go walk the dog and reflect, then write a letter.

Totalnewbie

There is no excuse for grabbing your arm, that bodes very badly indeed. I wouldn't feel guilty - if someone grabbed my arm I'd be furious.

don_don

I approached and said "with the greatest respect, there wasn't room for you to get by, so you should have waited" (I actually was that poilte). He grabbed me by the arm (not roughly though), and said something I didn't listen to. I was too busy requesting he didn't touch me....

That's common assault, plain and simple. I imagine 'taking it as far as you wanted' is a reference to reporting it to the Police. The abuse given to the other cyclist could also be acted upon, in fact I suspect the driver would be arrested if you reported him for assault/public order.

Bearing in mind he drives a school bus, he may well lose his job. That's possibly not an easy thing to think about, but on the other hand what sort of standard is he setting?

We have a justice system thats cough supposed to protect people and make these kind of judgements, so perhaps you should not let that worry you. I would only ask, would I want someone with an anger problem driving school kids on a bus?

always_tyred

linsen wrote:

thanks. I shall go walk the dog and reflect, then write a letter.

Was Frank okay though? Bit shaken up I bet.

Colzer1

if he grabbed me by the arm and started talking to me in the same way as he obviously did to you, I would of stuck the head on him. Yep I may of got charged with assualt but I would of claimed self defence.

snooks

Write a letter, tell his manager, make them aware that while he might drive a big vehicle, it's no excuse for bullying vulnerable road users. Say you wouldn't like your son or daughter to be traveling one of their companies buses if that's the was all of their drivers behave on the road. It would also be good to find out what they company policy is on aggressive drivers.

I wrote to the owners of a haulage company when I saw their driver overtake and cut up a woman and child on a bike. They interviewed his co workers to see what he was like behind the wheel, then they interviewed the driver in question. He was "genuinely unaware" of the incident. In that case I was happy for them to leave it at that, he hadn't harmed anyone, but I wanted then to be aware of their actions

Think of the consequences if the cyclist in front wasn't experienced. Anyone who leaves their vehicle and becomes confrontational, isn't someone who should be behind the wheel of a car, let alone bus, coach of PCV IMHO

always_tyred

Colzer1 wrote:

if he grabbed me by the arm and started talking to me in the same way as he obviously did to you, I would of stuck the head on him. Yep I may of got charged with assualt but I would of claimed self defence.

You don't work with kids do you?

CiB

Surely there's no case here for taking this further and getting a guy sacked? The 'assault' is described as 'he grabbed my arm (not roughly though)'. What have we come to where someone grabbing an arm can be described as assault? It's not - a punch to the stomach, a blow to the head, that's assault in my world, not this namby-pamby premiership footballers attitude of 'oooh he touched me - arrest him and charge him'.

And what of the lead up? This guy has a bus load of school kids on and he's being held up, and gets a bit shirty. Big deal. Ever been on a bus with a load of our finest youth of today going to school? They don't sit there revising for the coming lessons, or practicing hymns for assembly.

I don't know about you, but from the description it's nothing more than a disagreement between two adults, and now we're hearing that the bloke should be sacked and lose his livelihood - he's a bus driver, what else is he going to do? Become a bank manager, take up web design? He's over-stepped the mark, and suddenly he deserves to be thrown on the scrapheap, just as we fall into a recession.

I'm all for making culprits pay when they cause damage, but this guy didn't. He followed, was a bit aggressive but nothing came of it, except that he grabbed someone's arm, but not roughly. Let it go. Punishment should fit the crime and all that.

dodgy

Well put Chris, I think the fact that the driver was challenged will be enough. I'm still confused as to why there was a cyclist stopped in front of the bus?

Dave.

linsen

Always Tyred wrote:

linsen wrote:

thanks. I shall go walk the dog and reflect, then write a letter.

Was Frank okay though? Bit shaken up I bet.

Frank was tucked up at home. I take Gladys on the school run. She's a bit shy, I've not introduced her to you all yet

Totalnewbie

I maintain that, as a woman, I would find some bloke grabbing my arm very threatening and I don't think he should be allowed to get away with that kind of thing. There is no need. Thin end of the wedge and all that.

linsen

ChrisInBicester wrote:

Surely there's no case here for taking this further and getting a guy sacked? The 'assault' is described as 'he grabbed my arm (not roughly though)'. What have we come to where someone grabbing an arm can be described as assault? It's not - a punch to the stomach, a blow to the head, that's assault in my world, not this namby-pamby premiership footballers attitude of 'oooh he touched me - arrest him and charge him'.

And what of the lead up? This guy has a bus load of school kids on and he's being held up, and gets a bit shirty. Big deal. Ever been on a bus with a load of our finest youth of today going to school? They don't sit there revising for the coming lessons, or practicing hymns for assembly.

I don't know about you, but from the description it's nothing more than a disagreement between two adults, and now we're hearing that the bloke should be sacked and lose his livelihood - he's a bus driver, what else is he going to do? Become a bank manager, take up web design? He's over-stepped the mark, and suddenly he deserves to be thrown on the scrapheap, just as we fall into a recession.

I'm all for making culprits pay when they cause damage, but this guy didn't. He followed, was a bit aggressive but nothing came of it, except that he grabbed someone's arm, but not roughly. Let it go. Punishment should fit the crime and all that.

I am by no means suggesting he assaulted me, or the other cyclist.

I would be happy to have some reassurance from the company that the driver has been spoken to, is repentent and will think twice before losing his rag again.

He works with children, as do I. There is no excuse for anyone to behave in an aggressive way in front of them, even if provoked. I am a teacher and if I had behaved like that whilst at work I would be reprimanded for it at th every least.

I can only say what I saw. Should the other cyclist choose to take it further then I will be happy to give evidence. I am not going to complain unduly about his behaviour towards me, but rather his lack of patience behind a wheel. Everyone is accountable for that, and especially those doing it for a living.

symo

I don't think the driver will be challenged at all. The attitude was "take it as far as you like" does not intdicate punitive internal measures to me.

stage_fright

Just a point - did the driver leave a bus full of children (and I know, not possibly the right word if it was the comp 200 yards from me we were talking about here, but I hate the phrase 'young adults') , all nominally in his care, unattended while he remonstrated over a perceived greivance with a cyclist? Local authority's H&S thought police would love that one.

pst88

Maybe he meant take it as far as you want... off a short pier.

linsen

Stage Fright wrote:

Just a point - did the driver leave a bus full of children (and I know, not possibly the right word if it was the comp 200 yards from me we were talking about here, but I hate the phrase 'young adults') , all nominally in his care, unattended while he remonstrated over a perveiced greivance with a cyclist? Local authority's H&S thought police would love that one.

Yes. They were all very amused

don_don

Surely there's no case here for taking this further and getting a guy sacked? The 'assault' is described as 'he grabbed my arm (not roughly though)'. What have we come to where someone grabbing an arm can be described as assault? It's not - a punch to the stomach, a blow to the head, that's assault in my world, not this namby-pamby premiership footballers attitude of 'oooh he touched me - arrest him and charge him'.

I take your point, but 'grabbing someone the arm' even not roughly, is common assault.

I don't think thats the point though, as linsen says above, there's no excuse for the behaviour.

CiB

My stance is that having a bloke sacked - especially now - is not a fair and reasonable response to what happened.

Let's look at what happened. Linsen arrives at a scene where a cyclist is stopped in the road, refusing to move to let a bus driver get through to deliver his charges to the school. The driver gets off his coach to get things moving. What else is he supposed to do? Wait until the other cyclist decides to move off? How long should he wait? How long has this been going on already? How close is it to the school kids being late? What does the school do if the bus arrives late? Etc etc.

So the driver gets off to challenge the cyclist who is - apparently, but this might be my interpretation of the events - causing a delay by stopping in front of the bus. And then a 3rd party joins in and has her (his?) arm held, which is what I would see as 'grabbed, but not roughly'. All comes to all, no damage was done, the dear little children have a huge laugh at Fatty The Bus Driver having an argument with a couple of cyclists who are making them late for school (hurrah), and life goes on. Except that some would have us believe that the driver pro-actively wanting the cyclist to move and then holding (grabbing not roughly?) another cyclist's arm equates to assault and that he deserves to have the book thrown at him. I don't agree.

always_tyred

Unfortunately, the guy will not lose his job if its the first time anything like this has ever been reported to his boss. If it isn't then, really, so the hell what if he loses his job? He'll be a burden on the tax payer but the roads will be marginally safer.

I think there is a diminishingly small possibility that he's not an agressive sod day in day out.

Think about it - he got out of a bus, which he left blocking the road, presumably full of kids with the door open, to physically remonstrate with someone. That's orders of magnitude worse than winding down the window and telling someone to p!ss off. It wasn't a momentary fit of pique, it was a sustained total loss of control. How figgin' angry do YOU have to be to stop your car in the middle of the road, get out and start having a go at someone?

In principle I have ZERO sympathy for the bus driver, none at all. I do feel sympathy for his wife though.

dal105

dodgy wrote:

I'm still confused as to why there was a cyclist stopped in front of the bus?

The OP implies that the cyclist stopped in the road because the bus driver was trying to get past on a narrow street whilst sounding his horn.

As discussed here recently, sounding your horn is a warning of danger, so I guess the cyclist stopped to see what was wrong with his bike.

IMHO the aggressive driving before the incident is the main cause for complaint here, and also the reaction when linsen turned up to help