ohurugu - Rasmussen whats the diff ????

yorkshireraw

just like to re-iterate - I don't know if she's clean or not, and nothing would surprise me in sport these days, but the facts of the case in discussion are different to what is generally presented, and certainly different to the hypothetical picture painted by Conte, who I am sure doesn't care a jot whether sport is clean now or not, and almost certainly has his own self-serving agenda.

SunWuKong

I'm with Oliver Holt on this one. IMO at best she's arrogant, disorganised, with little respect for UKA, BOC or her competitors and team mates. She did commit a doping offence, she is not innocent. She may not have doped but she did break the rules.

I don't think her, Tim Don or the Judoka should have been allowed to compete in Beijing.

Jez mon

The thing is, as an athlete who is competing at the highest level, you have to do certain things, whatever your age, and one of those is to make sure yo don't miss three tests. Now as a coach/national federation, you have to keep an eye on your athletes. It smacks of stupidity that this was allowed to happen.

micron

I'm unconvinced by the 'little old scatterbrained me' defence from a successful linguistics student who claims her success is built on focusiing better and working harder than anyone else. If she's so disciplined about the rest of her career, why not testing?

Second, I'd be interested to know how she has been subjected to 'hundreds' of tests since the UKA performed 273 out of competition tests in total last year, and a big fat zero of in competition tests (quite laughable for a sport that wants us to believe in the credibility of its testing). She is also not registered as one of the IAAF testing pool so quite when she has been subjected to this rigorous testing remains a mystery.

But there is such a huge conflict of interest here - the governing body of a sport that is in the doldrums has to make the decision a) to get tough on a potential medal winner or b) let her run for pragmatic reasons. The fact that she told UKA that she would run for Nigeria if they didn't overturn the Olympics ban really says it all.

andyrac

Cycling is seen as a far more drug riddled sport than Athletics, which is not the case at all. But you try telling that to ill informed journalists who always have a dig at cycling. What this issue has shown is the UK Athletics stance on testing, or the shambles that it is.
Cycling needs a 'Seb Coe' figure who has a massive amount of influence to educate these ignorant journalists in the true state of play - whereas Athletics has lots of people defending it's record, and their statements are taken as fact.

jimmythecuckoo

For me the difference is that (a) she is British and (b) she isn't in an obscure sport like cycling where doping is the only thing that will get it in the paper.

bigdawg

The really sad thing about this, as stated already, is that somehow her medal becomes more significant than all those won by the riders and she suddenly becomes the poster girl for UK sport.


Re the doping I find it impossible to believe you could accidently miss three tests knowing what missing the third would actually result in.

flattythehurdler

YorkshireRaw wrote:

I don't know one way or the other about whether Ohuruogu takes PEDs or not, but can everyone please remember the facts of the case, as opposed to what they think they know happened.

She was not where she said she would be on 3 occasions when RANDOM testers turned up (twice the training track had been given over to other events, I think, without notification to other users). The athlete did not know they were being tested on those occasions. All Conte's assertions relate to the american system as far as I can tell, not UK Sport's. No where was it stated the tester found a voicemail 'inbox' full up and Ohuruogu certainly wasn't out of the country. On one of the occasions the silly girl spoke to the tester by phone but didnt think she could make the journey from where she was to (admittedly) where she should have been within the 1 hour window available. I don;t think she really understodd the consequences - knowing UK Athletics for the shower of shoot they are it wouldn't suprise me if the communication on this matter was less than explicit. They certainly never made it clear that the 1 hour window, 5 days a week, could be given as an athletes home address, rather than a training venue (which is subject to change) which makes it a lot easier.
YES - she was stupid
YES - she was bloody naive
YES - she was quite arsey afterwards and should have been more apologetic
MAYBE - she is dodgy - who knows.

There was not case of 'not turning up', they didn't know it was going to happen.
There was no case of knowing the testers were there and doing a runner (a la Rio F)
All parties have since improved the notification and whereabouts system - and this case has certainly served as a wake-up to all athletes about the responsibility they have to try & remain above suspicion.

It's notable that there were 3 cases across different sports - Athletics, Judo, Triathlon, in the first 18 MONTHS (edit - oops, not years) or so of the system operating, and none since as athletes seem to have realised the seriousness of keeping the register up to date, even for last minute changes.

However, with top level sport these days you never know, unfortunately.

+1
Also, she did not look half as unnaturally bulked up as the yank.
Did anyone see the polish "girl" in the back of the canoe pair btw :shock: :shock: :shock:

007stucumber

It's interesting that GB's medal haul has coincided with much more rigorous doping controls: is the playing field finally being levelled?

Ohurugu's win was as memorable as Ben Jonhson's. Also, since when did a women's 400m race become a 'blue riband' event: it's hardly the mass participation sport the BBC seems convinced it is ...

I don't know whether she doped or not. It's the whole controversy surrounding her and her lack of professionalism in missing the tests and whinging about her 'mistakes' in court which devalues her achievements, and means that she should neither be rewarded further for her win in the New Year's Honours list nor the SPOTY, and should not be promoted as a poster girl for 2012.

UK athletics - and athletes - will continue to perform poorly unless a more transparent and professional attitude is developed.

skavanagh.bikeradar

I used to love the Athletics at the Olympics, but I just cannot believe any of it anymore. Cycling teetered on the edge but just drew itself back from the precipice in time and I think that if they keep doing what they are doing, and keep improving things could end up being the example by which everyone else is judged. There have already been howls of discontent from other sports when a biological passport was suggested - something cycling (hopefully) is now embracing.

I think it's the blind eye turning in the Ohurugu case by the media that irritates me. That and the 'oh isn't she brave' attitude, WTF? Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

People above have said that she's just daft and isn't doping, or at least has never tested positive in other tests. You would think people would look at Marion Jones and decide that that particular indicator is unreliabe. Again, did I imagine the Chambers/Balco/Conte letter??

blazing_saddles

I am amazed to find there is even the odd naive comment upon this. I thought all fans of cycling were clued up as to how the random testing is carried out.
Obviously, I was wrong.
There is no plausible excuse and you can't base any mitigating argument upon the dubious circumstances of the 3rd strike, alone.

heavymental

Must say I feel very sorry for the poor girl. She fcked up and she's never going to be allowed to forget it.

Personally, I was with much of the comments above when I first heard she missed the tests. But since then, I've seen her on the tv and she seems to be a genuine girl who worked hard to get where she is. I'd be very surprised if she turned out to be a bad apple in the future. Unfortunately for her, and British sports fans, there will always be question marks surrounding her career.

We need to be better at identifying our heroes from villains and dish out the credit where it is due.

FJS

007stucumber wrote:

It's interesting that GB's medal haul has coincided with much more rigorous doping controls: is the playing field finally being levelled?

Yes, of course. Because as we all know Brits don't dope :?

Oh please.....
It's like the French that whine they're not producing Tour de France winners anymore because since Festina they're clean, and the rest isn't...

Kléber

Heavymental wrote:

I've seen her on the tv and she seems to be a genuine girl who worked hard to get where she is. I'd be very surprised if she turned out to be a bad apple in the future.

Tyler Hamilton cried when his dog died. Basso does charity work for kids. David Millar enjoyed art. Barloworld team mates said Duenas was a nice guy etc etc etc

I'm not saying anything about CO, just saying don't place your trust in people because they seem nice on TV alone.

GeorgeShaw

Kléber wrote:

Heavymental wrote:

I've seen her on the tv and she seems to be a genuine girl who worked hard to get where she is. I'd be very surprised if she turned out to be a bad apple in the future.

Tyler Hamilton cried when his dog died. Basso does charity work for kids. David Millar enjoyed art. Barloworld team mates said Duenas was a nice guy etc etc etc

I'm not saying anything about CO, just saying don't place your trust in people because they seem nice on TV alone.

I know. Just think about certain politicians ... :evil: :evil:

iainf72

Kléber wrote:

Tyler Hamilton cried when his dog died. Basso does charity work for kids. David Millar enjoyed art. Barloworld team mates said Duenas was a nice guy etc etc etc

You can be nice and dope - I've never understood why people think you need to be a swarthy villian looking type...

heavymental

Kléber wrote:

Heavymental wrote:

I've seen her on the tv and she seems to be a genuine girl who worked hard to get where she is. I'd be very surprised if she turned out to be a bad apple in the future.

Tyler Hamilton cried when his dog died. Basso does charity work for kids. David Millar enjoyed art. Barloworld team mates said Duenas was a nice guy etc etc etc

I'm not saying anything about CO, just saying don't place your trust in people because they seem nice on TV alone.

Fair enough but I can see CO take some big hits that seem harsh. For example....its been written here that she said she'd go run for Nigeria. I looked at the story in the Express and this is what it said...

But if the hearing does not go her way, Ohuruogu, who is the second oldest of a black African family of seven children, could get to the Beijing Olympics next year as a Nigerian athlete.

More embarrassingly she could be running under the Nigerian flag at the 2012 London Olympics, with her family home in Stratford right next to the stadium.

“The Olympics are out of my hands,” said Ohuruogu at the Mile End athletics track, where she trains. “The proceedings are going on. I am hopeful of getting the ban lifted. The Olympics are the pinnacle of an athlete’s career. If you can’t go to the Olympics...the World Champs comes every two years but it’s not quite the same.

“If the ban is not lifted, what would I do? Probably just run for another country. The Olympics is what you train for. I don’t know, I haven’t considered that, but I’m just going to remain hopeful anyway.”

“If I wasn’t able to go to the Olympics as a British athlete it would change how I looked at the sport,” said Ohuruogu.

“Could I change country? I haven’t really given it any serious thought. I don’t know what I’d do, maybe I should start thinking.”

Look at the quotes from her. I don't think that comes accross as someone threatening to turn their back on Britain and going to run for Nigeria! That was the suggestion made by The Express http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/159 ... or-Nigeria but she doesn't sound very commited to it to me! Sounds like she was just talking honestly about her situation and that part of what she said got jumped on. Unsurprisingly given that, imo, there's a certain amount of low level racism in operation here :roll: I doubt Radcliffe would get the same treatment. Like I said, I'd be surprised if she was a bad apple. I wasn't massively surprised to hear Basso and Hamilton were bad eggs. They never came accross as that trustworthy but CO seems like a good girl and its a shame to see her being run down. She's never come accross as anything other than an honest and down to earth individual to me.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympic ... 571858.stm

heavymental

iainf72 wrote:

Kléber wrote:

Tyler Hamilton cried when his dog died. Basso does charity work for kids. David Millar enjoyed art. Barloworld team mates said Duenas was a nice guy etc etc etc

You can be nice and dope - I've never understood why people think you need to be a swarthy villian looking type...

All true, and I hope I'm not being duped. But you got to trust someone haven't you?

iainf72

Heavymental wrote:

All true, and I hope I'm not being duped. But you got to trust someone haven't you?

I don't even trust myself. Certainly not when there's cake involved anyway.

I think CO looks dodgy.

heavymental

Ah well, fck it. As with all these threads, there's no definitive answer is there. We may never know either way and thats what makes it so frustrating, or indeed, ideal, for the athletes involved. But, for now, I'll be cheering her on.

cougie

Blazing Saddles wrote:

I am amazed to find there is even the odd naive comment upon this. I thought all fans of cycling were clued up as to how the random testing is carried out.
Obviously, I was wrong.
There is no plausible excuse and you can't base any mitigating argument upon the dubious circumstances of the 3rd strike, alone.

From the stuff I've read - you have to say where you are going to be for an hour or so each day in advance. Now my routine is pretty steady, but I'd struggle to be where I am supposed to be more than a day or two ahead. I think several athletes had problems with the system, and its now easier to use and you can update your location more easily now. I'd like to see more details of how this works though - that'd be interesting.

dulldave

low level racism? WTF?

I'd love to see how you justify that implication. I think we'd be saying the same if she were white. In fact it is more likely that low-level racism would come into it. There would be more disbelievers if she were white I reckon.

heavymental

dulldave wrote:

low level racism? WTF?

I'd love to see how you justify that implication. I think we'd be saying the same if she were white. In fact it is more likely that low-level racism would come into it. There would be more disbelievers if she were white I reckon.

I'm talking about the general media coverage rather than any comments here. But it is my personal belief that she'd be treated differently if she was a Becky Adlington type character. Not massively. Just a bit.

GeorgeShaw

Have a look at http://www.uksport.gov.uk/assets/File/G ... 0tests.pdf

The total number of tests on all athletes in the last 3 month period was 295. That doesn't seem like a lot of tests to me ...

mididoctors

Heavymental wrote:

dulldave wrote:

low level racism? WTF?

I'd love to see how you justify that implication. I think we'd be saying the same if she were white. In fact it is more likely that low-level racism would come into it. There would be more disbelievers if she were white I reckon.

I'm talking about the general media coverage rather than any comments here. But it is my personal belief that she'd be treated differently if she was a Becky Adlington type character. Not massively. Just a bit.

hmmm maybe a bit yeah... but the reason she gets stick (though not enough IMO) is because she's iffy...

I would like to have seen Ned Boulting interview her in the stadium post race

frankly I would have preferred not seeing her at all

Boris
London

blazing_saddles

It's not.
More chance of not getting tested, than getting a test. Nil positives, too.
However, some BBC posters would have us believe CO has been tested "hundreds of times."

Kind of reminds me of a certain, cyclist, who's name escapes me for the moment. :roll:

When you also take into account she managed to avoid 3 tests in an 18 month period. :shock:
Nobody's saying its easy to pinpoint where'll you'll be at any given time, in a month or so, but it goes with the territory.
It's the rule, she broke it and the BOA did an about face.
Who's the more culpable?

mididoctors

Blazing Saddles wrote:

It's not.


When you also take into account she managed to avoid 3 tests in an 18 month period. :shock:

thats the thing people dont get

... its statistically unlikley to have missed all 3

... ie the coincidence of not being available boarders on the unbelievable given the schedule they are asked to submit

the original decision should have stood

moreover I think this is going to come back and bite them in the long run..

richa

It would be interesting to know how many random (non competition) tests she took.

i.e. How many times did they turn up unannounced at training and she was there? What proportion of these testes were missed?

We know of 3 times when she wasn't where she was supposed to be. There could have been many many more on days when the testers chose not to turn up?

captain_oakley

I don't buy the low level racism argument at all, the coverage she has recieved
in the media over the last 24 hrs has been staggering, none of the the double
gold medalists recieved this amount. Once again we are being battered into
submission by the Diversity Directorate, doing an excellent job of manipulating
the media.

Missing tests seems to be the new 'I've drunk to much coffee' or 'the sweets
from Sth America', these people are professional athletes', they know what
their responsibilities are, simply saying 'I Forgot' is not good enough.

I bet the same questions would have been asked about Tim Don had he done
well in the Triathlon, but we were saved by a dose of the trots (Stomach Virus).


'Sleazy Rider'

micron

She actually missed 3 in 10 months and almost missed a 4th but her coach drove the testers directly to her house when he realised she'd buggered off home.

Considering UKA gets £20+ million in funding yearly, there is a frightening lack of accountability by its athletes.

CO is currently in the IAAF testing pool - she's down to be tested OOC 1-3 times a year. One thing that has somewhat shocked me is discovering that UKA conducted absolutely no in competition tests this year - think cycling could get away with that?