Forum home Road cycling forum Pro race

ohurugu - Rasmussen whats the diff ????

Gazzetta67Gazzetta67 Posts: 1,892
edited August 2008 in Pro race
so you miss 3 out of competition drug tests and now your a olympic champion.....rasmussen gets chucked out the tour and they want him banned .he s never tested positive....so am i missing something.??? the one rule for one and one for the other smacks of hypocrisy.
«1345

Posts

  • KléberKléber Posts: 6,842
    The Chicken was served with hot sauce. He missed tests and then lied about things afterwards.

    As for Ohurugu, I don't know. Generously, you could say she's been caught by the authorities for being stupid. Cynically, step-1 of the Balco Lab "handbook" advised people to miss as many tests as possible, to dodge as many tests as you can. But even if she was caught doping, she would be back after her ban now.
  • My question as well. So it turns out that the athletics governing body made a real censored up of letting everybody know what was happening. Unlike cycling this was a new thing for athletics (surprisingly) and there was genuine confusion amongst the athletes as to what was required.

    Whether this explains three missed test I'm not sure. If so it goes some way to explaining the relative lack of success on the track and field if the governing body is that rubbish.
  • dealdeal Posts: 857
    Kléber wrote:
    The Chicken was served with hot sauce. He missed tests and then lied about things afterwards.

    As for Ohurugu, I don't know. Generously, you could say she's been caught by the authorities for being stupid. Cynically, step-1 of the Balco Lab "handbook" advised people to miss as many tests as possible, to dodge as many tests as you can. But even if she was caught doping, she would be back after her ban now.

    Sounds like text book dope test avoidance

    October 2005, dope tester come calling not available, but due to the 3 missed test rule can afford to keep doping, can always miss a second test if they come calling while on a cycle!

    June 2006, damn more bad luck, that’s my two chances gone, will have to stay clean for a bit now

    June 2006, oh censored they are back for more and I am still not clean from the last cycle damn that’s terribly bad luck! Oh well I guess missing tests is better than failing...

    She wouldn’t be back if she had tested positive, at least she would not be at the Olympics. She would be in the same situation as dwayne Chambers.

    ps. what a joke the BBC commentators are, they are quick to point out some of the numerous dopers competing in the Olympics, in particular when they finish ahead of a British athlete (ie Blonska in the Heptathlon) but quietly ignore Ohurugu transgressions or even try to portray her as some kind of hero for coming back after those nasty tester got her banned.
  • st68st68 Posts: 219
    "ps. what a joke the BBC commentators are, they are quick to point out some of the numerous dopers competing in the Olympics, in particular when they finish ahead of a British athlete (ie Blonska in the Heptathlon) but quietly ignore Ohurugu transgressions or even try to portray her as some kind of hero for coming back after those nasty tester got her banned" just like the british cycling press portray a certain mr millar as holier than thou basso and landis as bad boys "theyre all cheats regardless of nationality"
    cheesy quaver
  • st68 wrote:
    "ps. what a joke the BBC commentators are, they are quick to point out some of the numerous dopers competing in the Olympics, in particular when they finish ahead of a British athlete (ie Blonska in the Heptathlon) but quietly ignore Ohurugu transgressions or even try to portray her as some kind of hero for coming back after those nasty tester got her banned" just like the british cycling press portray a certain mr millar as holier than thou basso and landis as bad boys "theyre all cheats regardless of nationality"

    Eh, when did you get out? Weren't the ropes tight enough? :o
  • The chicken gets well and truly plucked over and Christine EPOhuruogu gets to be a Dame.
    Other than that, no difference at all. :roll:
    UK win the gold medal in rule bending hypocricy. (Just don't try and tell the BBC that)
    Any truth in the rumour that she told the BOC that she'd run for Nigeria if they didn't revoke her ban?
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • mididoctorsmididoctors Posts: 8,910
    none... the British olympic committee decision should of stood...
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • moray_gubmoray_gub Posts: 3,328
    Gazzetta67 wrote:
    so you miss 3 out of competition drug tests and now your a olympic champion.....rasmussen gets chucked out the tour and they want him banned .he s never tested positive....so am i missing something.??? the one rule for one and one for the other smacks of hypocrisy.

    Good old debate going on the BBC blog if you can scroll through the nauseating guff before it


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/olympics/200 ... piece.html

    cheers
    MG
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • bill57bill57 Posts: 454
    Some incredibly blinkered opinions here, and some terrible censorship - what price freedom of speech?
    To believe that a professional athlete could miss three doping tests by accident is naive in the extreme.
    What's the bet that she beats Chris Hoy in BBC Sports Personality of the Year?
  • Having waded through all of that lot, all it proves for me is that most people still believe in what they see and they aren't as cycnial as cycling fans - we've had the whole charade exposed recently. Also cycling is clearly now, at last doing more than other sports as far as I can tell to do something about it. Long way to go, more can and should be done etc etc. I don't know.

    It's as if the Chambers/Balco letter never existed!

    Anyway, she's a runner so her gold is worth 5 of anyone else's. Ask Sue Barker, she's knows. If Ohrugu was a Romanian I bet Sue would change her mind. I thought Foster and Cram were terribly one-eyed in the marathon commentary and quite uncomplimentary about the winner. Sour grapes if you ask me.
  • Anyway if she's so hounded by the accusations and rumour she could always volunteer to take part in an independently administered, publicly available testing regieme that also takes samples that can be tested in future when new tests for existing banned substances become available. That'd dispell the rumours and murk. Put her mind at rest too I should think....................come on Christine you know you want to!
  • andyracandyrac Posts: 535
    I was going to ask a similar question right after she had won the gold, but didn't as it seemed sour grapes. As much as she seems like a 'nice girl' - what is the difference?
    Wouldn't have anything to do with him being a 'nasty foreigner' and her being a 'good honest Brit'?

    Must say when she won the gold last year at the World Champs I found the BBC's response nauseating - completely forgetting what had happened, but whoa betide any foreigner doing the same thing.


    All Road/ Gravel: tbc
    WInter: Trek Domane ALR3
    MTB: Canyon Grand Canyon 8.0
    Road: tbc
  • leguapeleguape Posts: 986
    deal wrote:
    Kléber wrote:
    The Chicken was served with hot sauce. He missed tests and then lied about things afterwards.

    As for Ohurugu, I don't know. Generously, you could say she's been caught by the authorities for being stupid. Cynically, step-1 of the Balco Lab "handbook" advised people to miss as many tests as possible, to dodge as many tests as you can. But even if she was caught doping, she would be back after her ban now.

    Sounds like text book dope test avoidance

    October 2005, dope tester come calling not available, but due to the 3 missed test rule can afford to keep doping, can always miss a second test if they come calling while on a cycle!

    June 2006, damn more bad luck, that’s my two chances gone, will have to stay clean for a bit now

    June 2006, oh shoot they are back for more and I am still not clean from the last cycle damn that’s terribly bad luck! Oh well I guess missing tests is better than failing...

    She wouldn’t be back if she had tested positive, at least she would not be at the Olympics. She would be in the same situation as dwayne Chambers.

    ps. what a joke the BBC commentators are, they are quick to point out some of the numerous dopers competing in the Olympics, in particular when they finish ahead of a British athlete (ie Blonska in the Heptathlon) but quietly ignore Ohurugu transgressions or even try to portray her as some kind of hero for coming back after those nasty tester got her banned.

    Arguably she also returned several negative samples for in competition and out of competition tests during that period. Then again there's a list as long as your arm of proven dopers who've done likewise. And the small matter that the BOA has only upheld something like 4 out of 30 something appeals against life bans.
  • CumulonimbusCumulonimbus Posts: 1,730
    I suppose that she will probably be tested more than anyone else now so hopefully this will prove she is doing it clean (although i know there can be long term benefits if she was delierately missing tests before). Will it be publicised if she misses any more?
  • The marked lack of enthuisiastic hugs and congrats fom her fellow runners in the final spoke volumes.....

    A hollow victory indeed
  • I've got a real bee in my bonet about this. The issue for me is one of principle, even more so in light of the Chambers/Balco letter - athletes need to understand clearly their responsibilities to their sport, sponsors, media, organisers and paying public. This includes making yourself available via a whereabout system (I'm not saying this cannot be improved, clearly it can), turning up for tests and subjecting yourself to as many tests as it takes to convince people you are on the level.
  • KléberKléber Posts: 6,842
    Dear Dwain,

    Per your request, this letter is to confirm that I am willing to assist you in providing the UKA and others with information that will help them to improve the effectiveness of their anti-doping programs.

    The specific details regarding how you were able to circumvent the UKA and IAAF anti-doping tests for an extended period of time are provided below.

    Your performance enhancing drug program included the following seven prohibited substances...

    ...It is important to understand that it is not really necessary for athletes to have access to designer anabolic steroids such as THG. They can simply use fast acting testosterone (oral as well as creams and gels) and still easily avoid the testers. For example, oral testosterone will clear the system in less than a week and testosterone creams and gels will clear even faster.

    Many drug tested athletes use what I call the “duck and dodge” technique. Several journalists in the UK have recently referred to it as the “duck and dive” technique. This is basically how it works.

    First, the athlete repeatedly calls their own cell phone until the message capacity is full. This way the athlete can claim to the testers that they didn’t get a message when they finally decide to make themselves available. Secondly, they provide incorrect information on their whereabouts form. They say they are going to one place and then go to another. Thereafter, they start using testosterone, growth hormone and other drugs for a short cycle of two to three weeks.

    After the athlete discontinues using the drugs for a few days and they know that they will test clean, they become available and resume training at their regular facility.

    Most athletes are tested approximately two times each year on a random out-of -competition basis. If a tester shows up and the athlete is not where they are supposed to be, then the athlete will receive a “missed test.” This is the equivalent to receiving “strike one” when up to bat in a baseball game. The current anti-doping rules allow an athlete to have two missed tests in any given eighteen month period without a penalty or consequence. So, the disadvantage for an athlete having a missed test is that they have one strike against them. The advantage of that missed test is that the athlete has now received the benefit of a cycle of steroids. Long story short, an athlete can continue to duck and dive until they have two missed tests, which basically means that they can continue to use drugs until that time.

    In summary, it’s my opinion that more than fifty percent of the drug tests performed each year should be during the off season or the fourth quarter. This is when the track athletes are duckin’ and divin’ and using anabolic steroids and other drugs. Let me provide some rather startling information for your consideration. If you check the testing statistics on the USADA website, you will find that the number of out-of-competition drug tests performed during each quarter of 2007 are as follows: In the first quarter there were 1208, second quarter 1295, third quarter 1141 and in the fourth quarter there were only 642. In late 2003 I advised USADA about the importance of random testing during the fourth quarter of the year. They did initially seem to follow my advice because they increased the number of fourth quarter tests in 2004, 2005 and 2006.

    However, they failed to continue this practice in 2007. Why would USADA decide to perform only 15% of their annual out-of-competition tests during the fourth quarter? Let’s not forget that this is the off season before the upcoming summer Olympic Games. This is equivalent to a fisherman knowing that the fish are ready to bite and then consciously deciding that it is time to reel in his line and hook, lean his fishing pole up against a tree and take a nap.

    On several occasions, I have provided detailed information to both USADA and WADA in an attempt to help them establish more effective testing policies and procedures.

    I certainly have more information that I would like the opportunity to provide to you and the UKA, but I will leave that for another time.

    Hopefully, this information will be helpful and I am available to assist you further upon request.

    Sincerely,

    Victor Conte
  • inseineinseine Posts: 5,781
    Whereas they say this in the Telegraph..............
    :?
    By Simon Hart in Beijing
    Last Updated: 11:08PM BST 19 Aug 2008

    "I'd be very happy to be the poster girl for London 2012," she said. "Why not me?" Her credentials were faultless. An intelligent, articulate girl of Nigerian parentage who would symbolise the rich ethnic diversity which the London bid team had used to sell the city to the International Olympic Committee.

    She was also a truly outstanding athlete and a role model for young people from similar humble backgrounds to show what could be achieved if you worked hard enough.

    Eighteen turbulent months later that story had taken on entirely different complexion. Ohuruogu had just won the World Championship gold medal in Osaka, but this time her celebrations were soured by the hostility that followed.

    The morning after her victory, a tabloid newspaper published a front-page picture of her accompanied by the headline: "Don't make this the face of 2012".

    Ohuruogu's name will always carry a parenthesis. It is her misfortune to be forever burdened by the stigma of her three missed drug tests. She has never failed a drug test and it is hard to imagine that she is anything other than clean.

    Much of the cynicism of Osaka flowed from disbelief that she could win so soon after a one-year ban. What yesterday demonstrated is that she is a true champion, capable of peaking on the biggest stage. What more does she have to do to prove the cynics wrong?
  • iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    inseine wrote:
    Ohuruogu's name will always carry a parenthesis. It is her misfortune to be forever burdened by the stigma of her three missed drug tests. She has never failed a drug test and it is hard to imagine that she is anything other than clean.

    heheeheheheeh.

    Sigh.

    Torygraph, eh?
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • An amazingly similar argument on the BBC forum to that which still takes place here, 3 years after THAT guy retired. :roll:
    It all goes to show we are really no different to the rest.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • richaricha Posts: 1,629
    Heptathlete Blonska has failed her A test according to BBC 5Live.
    Rich
  • Did the dog eat her homework? Was she just a bit silly? Did someone put something in her cornflakes? Was it Ginseng? Did her mother's heart medicine fall into her tea? Is she a dirty cheating foreigner??!!! IS SHE? IS SHE A DIRTY CHEATING FOREIGNER??

    I bet Sue Barker will suddenly have a harder attitude toward people with doping murk hovering over them today, especially as it is a foreigner who beat a Brit.

    Read the Balco letter Sue, it'll show you that you take an athlete's word for it at the risk of making yourself looking like a gullible fool. Trust me, I've been following cycling for 23 years I know all about it!
  • yorkshirerawyorkshireraw Posts: 1,427
    edited August 2008
    I don't know one way or the other about whether Ohuruogu takes PEDs or not, but can everyone please remember the facts of the case, as opposed to what they think they know happened.

    She was not where she said she would be on 3 occasions when RANDOM testers turned up (twice the training track had been given over to other events, I think, without notification to other users). The athlete did not know they were being tested on those occasions. All Conte's assertions relate to the american system as far as I can tell, not UK Sport's. No where was it stated the tester found a voicemail 'inbox' full up and Ohuruogu certainly wasn't out of the country. On one of the occasions the silly girl spoke to the tester by phone but didnt think she could make the journey from where she was to (admittedly) where she should have been within the 1 hour window available. I don;t think she really understodd the consequences - knowing UK Athletics for the shower of censored they are it wouldn't suprise me if the communication on this matter was less than explicit. They certainly never made it clear that the 1 hour window, 5 days a week, could be given as an athletes home address, rather than a training venue (which is subject to change) which makes it a lot easier.
    YES - she was stupid
    YES - she was bloody naive
    YES - she was quite arsey afterwards and should have been more apologetic
    MAYBE - she is dodgy - who knows.

    There was not case of 'not turning up', they didn't know it was going to happen.
    There was no case of knowing the testers were there and doing a runner (a la Rio F)
    All parties have since improved the notification and whereabouts system - and this case has certainly served as a wake-up to all athletes about the responsibility they have to try & remain above suspicion.

    It's notable that there were 3 cases across different sports - Athletics, Judo, Triathlon, in the first 18 MONTHS (edit - oops, not years) or so of the system operating, and none since as athletes seem to have realised the seriousness of keeping the register up to date, even for last minute changes.

    However, with top level sport these days you never know, unfortunately.
  • micronmicron Posts: 1,843
    you mean she's not taking anything for her lousy memory?

    Interesting that the doping apologists want us to see cheating in shades of grey - I'm not aware that if you get caught cheating on your exams that you get mitigating circumstances taken into account.
  • Unfortunately, suspicion hangs over all "athletes", no matter which sport they compete in.
    The way Usain Bolt won the 100m, the way he's cruising through the 200m heats. The spectres of Justin Gatlin and Ben Johnson loom large there.
    The way swimmers are thrashing world records, our team pursuiters record a time 2 seconds faster than the current world record and are 11 seconds faster than their Athens 2004 times.
    Rashid Ramzi's win at the 1500m? Steve Ovett's comments suggest that there's doubt there, he rarely races, yet come the big event, pops out of the woodwork and wins convincingly. He bursts onto the world scene in 2004, taking 9 seconds off his personal best and beats El Gerooujj, in 2005 gets both 8 & 1500m titles. He's raced at only 3 meetings this year, including the OLympics.
    With regards to comparing Ohurugu & Rasmussen, there's no dirty washing popping up about shoe-boxes and she wasn't in another country when the testers came knocking.
    Is she racing "clean"? We don't know, only she knows.
    Remember that you are an Englishman and thus have won first prize in the lottery of life.
  • MoomaloidMoomaloid Posts: 2,040
    'It's notable that there were 3 cases across different sports - Athletics, Judo, Triathlon, in the first 18 year or so of the system operating, and none since as athletes seem to have realised the seriousness of keeping the register up to date, even for last minute changes.'

    I think this is a good point to remember. It seem that there was a real lack or organisation on behalf of the british authorities, and this obviously wasn't just in athletics. Yes i agree 3 strikes is pretty incredible, and also WHY was her coach not more on top of this.
  • andyracandyrac Posts: 535
    It is interesting to look at the various blogs, forums, etc on various newspapers, BBC website and read some of the comments about her. In the main, "because she hasn't failed a test she's clean", sorry, but that argument doesn't hold water. Lots of cyclists haven't failed test, but have been doping. There is a spectacular level of ignorance when it comes to doping issues in this country - highlighted when Rio Ferdinand missed/went missing/shopping instead of a test.
    I'd like to think she is clean, but 3 missed tests is slightly dubious to say the least. Also, when a foreigner does something like this they all weigh in with both feet first.


    All Road/ Gravel: tbc
    WInter: Trek Domane ALR3
    MTB: Canyon Grand Canyon 8.0
    Road: tbc
  • cougiecougie Posts: 22,512
    I'm with YorkshireRaw on this I think.

    All a lot of us see is 'three missed tests' and thats it - we condemn her. There was an inquiry and the evidence was presented - and that was enough for the BOC to permit her to run - they've at least been to the bother of looking into the cases - most of us here havent.

    Rasmussen was clearly different - he was caught out lying about which country he was in to avoid the testers. Thats not the same as Ohuruogu. He lied - to my best knowledge - she didnt.
  • mididoctorsmididoctors Posts: 8,910
    I've got a real bee in my bonet about this. The issue for me is one of principle, even more so in light of the Chambers/Balco letter - athletes need to understand clearly their responsibilities to their sport, sponsors, media, organisers and paying public. This includes making yourself available via a whereabout system (I'm not saying this cannot be improved, clearly it can), turning up for tests and subjecting yourself to as many tests as it takes to convince people you are on the level.

    I,m onboard this too.

    even if I knew 1000% she never doped I still say chuck her off the team as the BOC wanted too
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
Sign In or Register to comment.