Silly commuting racing

DonDaddyD

W1 wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Well it seems that they are both a heavier version of the roadie.

Tricky...

One has flats, one has drops... both are built for comfort and durability rather than outright speed.

Very tricky.

But then has the person who bought the fast hybrid made an outright, if uninformed, choice for speed where the tourer-buyer has chosen his steed over a roadie as he wants something tougher? Should the tourer therefore be lower?

Or is the lower position achieved with the drops such an advantage that the tourer stays above the hybrid?

Fast hybrid is definitely faster - I'd say a tourer is always a heavier version of a roadie (to be built to carry bulk it has to be) whereas the hybrid could be a roadie with flat bars - and might weigh just the same, have the same spec etc.

I don't think the aero position makes that much difference, when you can just crouch on a flat bar if required....!

Ok model explanation with Car comparison

Roadies: Bike's purpose built for speed.
Car comparison: Super Car purpose built for speed - Porsche 911, Ford GT Ferrari F430, Ferrari 599 Fiorano

Tourers: Bike focused on long distance at speed:
Car comparison: Grand Tourer focused on long distance at speed (four seated sports car with more luxury than a supercar so heavier but still damn quick due to obscene engine and design) - DB9, Ferrari Scaglietti

Fast Hybrids: Road bikes with flat handle bars. Easier to use than and more agile than a Roadie, fast but not as speed focused. (which is the point of putting flat handle bars on a road bike, it becomes easier to handle and more agile)
Car Comparison: Roadster purpose built for equal parts speed and agility - Porsche Boxster, Lotus Elise, BMW Z8

Hybrids: Mountain Bike frame/shape with slick tyres and rigid fork i.e. Giant M2, Ridgeback Storm - nimble things with quick acceleration but not great over huge distances.
Car Comparison: Hot hatch - Golf GTI, Peugeot 206 GTI

This is how I see the Bike Food Chain between Roadies/Tourers Fast Hybrids/Hybrids:

Roadie
Tourer
Fast Hybrid
Hybrid

itboffin

DonDaddyD wrote:

itboffin wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

cjcp wrote:

2. Perhaps the tourer appeals to more mature rider than the fast hybrid and is more likely to be slower than the hybrid, whether or not on drops <and turns and flees>

Guy-on-the-Tourer is usually fitter and more "seasoned" than the guy on the Fast Hybrid (I'm talking about Flat Bar road bikes, not MTB with slicks like Ridgeback storm, Giant M2 et)

You get the impression that the guy on the Tourer has been riding his trusty steed since the last World War. Whereas Hybrid-man bought his bike because the drops on a roadie scared him...

Sure the Hybrid bke might be faster than the Tourer. But Guy-on-the-Tourer will always get the MTFU respect points for getting 20mph+ from a bike that argubly weighs as much as Ford Transit!

<<stokes the fire>>

Having lost/given up your battle against the mighty FG/SS ace pilots you now launch an attack on the loveable hybrid, you must enjoy the taste of FAILURE....

Whoa!!! "thems be fighting words!"

Who said I lost my war to the GQ magazine wannabe's?

Anyway, it doesn't matter whether you win or loose its how you play the game.

I'm also semi-retired until the weather improves. Then I will destory all!

Steady now or I might have to take "The Storm" off the turbo for a little xmas outing...

W1

DonDaddyD wrote:

W1 wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Well it seems that they are both a heavier version of the roadie.

Tricky...

One has flats, one has drops... both are built for comfort and durability rather than outright speed.

Very tricky.

But then has the person who bought the fast hybrid made an outright, if uninformed, choice for speed where the tourer-buyer has chosen his steed over a roadie as he wants something tougher? Should the tourer therefore be lower?

Or is the lower position achieved with the drops such an advantage that the tourer stays above the hybrid?

Fast hybrid is definitely faster - I'd say a tourer is always a heavier version of a roadie (to be built to carry bulk it has to be) whereas the hybrid could be a roadie with flat bars - and might weigh just the same, have the same spec etc.

I don't think the aero position makes that much difference, when you can just crouch on a flat bar if required....!

Ok model explanation with Car comparison

Roadies: Bike's purpose built for speed.
Car comparison: Super Car purpose built for speed - Porsche 911, Ford GT Ferrari F430, Ferrari 599 Fiorano

Tourers: Bike focused on long distance at speed:
Car comparison: Grand Tourer focused on long distance at speed (four seated sports car with more luxury than a supercar so heavier but still damn quick due to obscene engine and design) - DB9, Ferrari Scaglietti

Fast Hybrids: Road bikes with flat handle bars. Easier to use than and more agile than a Roadie, fast but not as speed focused. (which is the point of putting flat handle bars on a road bike, it becomes easier to handle and more agile)
Car Comparison: Roadster purpose built for equal parts speed and agility - Porsche Boxster, Lotus Elise, BMW Z8

Hybrids: Mountain Bike frame/shape with slick tyres and rigid fork i.e. Giant M2, Ridgeback Storm - nimble things with quick acceleration but not great over huge distances.
Car Comparison: Hot hatch - Golf GTI, Peugeot 206 GTI

This is how I see the Bike Food Chain between Roadies/Tourers Fast Hybrids/Hybrids:

Roadie
Tourer
Fast Hybrid
Hybrid

I think a comparison with a car, which bases the perceived speed on the engine, a bit flawed when it comes to bikes.....

I'd put a tourer more in the Volvo estate category, which would get trounced by a Boxster for example.

Perhaps a tourer should be between fast hybrids (flat bar road bikes) and normal hybrids?

ETA - I mean seriously, for a SCR event, no-one would pick my Marin with treaded tyres, rack and guards over an equally aged Spesh Sirrus with skinny slicks and carbon forks.

DonDaddyD

biondino wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

I'm also semi-retired until the weather improves. Then I will destory all!

No, then you'll spend two months dragging your fitness back up to acceptable levels - and that's if a springtime of being scalped by children and grannies doesn't demoralise you for good :twisted:

I'm using this time to train, increase my stamina, improve my pedal technique and loose weight (it is going really well).

m0scs

So what happened to the article in the London Paper today or have I missed something?

DonDaddyD

W1 wrote:

]I think a comparison with a car, which bases the perceived speed on the engine, a bit flawed when it comes to bikes.....

Why is it flawed, its not just the engine alone that determines a cars performance or classification. Shape of the shell have just as much an influence. Much like a bike.

I'd put a tourer more in the Volvo estate category, which would get trounced by a Boxster for example.

But a Tourer is shaped like a road bike but stiffened to carry an extra load like a Grand Tourer. Strip the Tourer down, put lighter wheels on it and you can get roadie performance out of it - Much like you can get Super Car performance out of a Grand Tourer.

A Volvo is a different kind of beast. Its bike comparison would be something akin to an abomination....

DonDaddyD

itboffin wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

itboffin wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

cjcp wrote:

2. Perhaps the tourer appeals to more mature rider than the fast hybrid and is more likely to be slower than the hybrid, whether or not on drops <and turns and flees>

Guy-on-the-Tourer is usually fitter and more "seasoned" than the guy on the Fast Hybrid (I'm talking about Flat Bar road bikes, not MTB with slicks like Ridgeback storm, Giant M2 et)

You get the impression that the guy on the Tourer has been riding his trusty steed since the last World War. Whereas Hybrid-man bought his bike because the drops on a roadie scared him...

Sure the Hybrid bke might be faster than the Tourer. But Guy-on-the-Tourer will always get the MTFU respect points for getting 20mph+ from a bike that argubly weighs as much as Ford Transit!

<<stokes the fire>>

Having lost/given up your battle against the mighty FG/SS ace pilots you now launch an attack on the loveable hybrid, you must enjoy the taste of FAILURE....

Whoa!!! "thems be fighting words!"

Who said I lost my war to the GQ magazine wannabe's?

Anyway, it doesn't matter whether you win or loose its how you play the game.

I'm also semi-retired until the weather improves. Then I will destory all!

Steady now or I might have to take "The Storm" off the turbo for a little xmas outing...

What so I can laugh at it? :shock:

Littigator

m0scs wrote:

So what happened to the article in the London Paper today or have I missed something?

Dunno, wasn't in there

Bassjunkieuk

D3, good comparison with the cars - my only problem is your penchant for Ferrari's :-) I prefer Aston Martins or Lambo's as they don't sound as tinny but thats a discussion for a different forum

I think at the end of the day it's gonna be down to individual riders to make a bike by bike call and listen to their hearts as to wheather it was a scalp or scalping when passing/being passed by one of these types of bikes. I'm sure there are plenty of riders on "fast hybrids" that are actually rubbish riders, much the same
with any other type of bike!

The FCN was only there as an initial guide for new people and not a hard and fast list of the relative speeds of each bike as ultimately it is the pilot that can make a bike fly or not :-)

itboffin

I nearly forgot - whilst out today on the "commute" cough cough I took another scalp, two in less that 1 week that's a new yokel record for me.

So this is how the story unfolded, I prized my self out of the lovely warmth of the house wrapped in dozens of layers, instantly shocked at the horrific Arctic winds and bitter cold, still I MTFU did a quick check of my trusty old single speed and set off, instantly it began to rain (thanks metoffice your doing a grand job).

Cut a long story short, 5 miles later I stopped to adjust my headset and what do I spot - yep a lone cyclist in hi-viz on a road bike with semi slick (very wise around here) heading towards me - they take the same fork in the road that I'm planning, game on...

I allow them a healthy head start as it's up hill all the way, the road was covered in mud, various rocks and branches, I tried oh how I tried not to but I just had too, I drew even and offered a cheery morning to which "she" replies "I knew you we're going to catch me"

Man, woman or child I care not all are fair game, but chapeau to you mystery lady it's was pretty rough out there today.

PS. Sorry I took you again five miles later, I wasn't waiting honest :twisted:

lost_in_thought

Hmmmmmm cars. I often cycle past a lovely maserati.... mmmmmmmmmmaserati.

:shock:

sorry, don't know what came over me there. I blame the fact that I've been up for 16 hours. I'm clearly delirious.

Here we go.....




mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmitus.

biondino

Have you bought it yet?

itboffin

DonDaddyD do you remember how you felt when you crashed at the freewheel, well imagine the shame of arriving on the 28th to find you're scalp sitting in the basket of my shopper :twisted:

*fight fight fight*

lost_in_thought

biondino wrote:

Have you bought it yet?

I'm actually after the mitus plus, but couldn't find a picture of it which displayed at work... I'm going to head up to Epic maybe the weekend after next... they have many a Viner I can try...

EDIT: Here we go:

gb155

biondino wrote:

cb155 is my commuter of the year.

Today wasn't much fun. Still hungover after Saturday night cocktails (can thoroughly recommend an Up River St Lawrence) and the wind was at least partially in my face (I hope - I couldn't have been that slow by myself, could I?). One of those mornings where you pray for red traffic lights.

I did almost left hook myself - a car had indicated with plenty of space but I thought it was for the bigger left turn another 20 yards on, so I kept going regardless and had to come to a rather skiddy stop (not that he'd have hit me, he'd stopped - top driving tat man). Must pay more attention.

Not a single scalp, not a single roadie, no action whatsoever.

CB155 I know him, He's my brother lol, Thanks Man, Much Appreciated.

No Scalps for me tonight, Myself and a guy on a hybrid trades places for a few miles, then he turned right as I turned left, Glad really as he was bloody quick,

Scalped a MTB this morning, I smelt fear as I went passed

Wrath Rob

itboffin wrote:

itboffin wrote:

Wrath Rob wrote:

I saw that too and though it was a load of old bull. Totally made up on the spot!

No commuting for me today as I'vet got 24 hour man-flu. Back on the bike tomorrow and it will be the new SS! Huzzah, its finally here. Pics to follow but at the moment I'm slightly concerned by the brakes, or rather the lack of them. Don't get me wrong, its got brakes, they just seem to be a pretty ineffectual 35 year old design with blocks that don't face onto the rims quite right and therefore need some "bedding in". Plus the levers are pretty uncomfortable to ride on the drops. Me thinks £50 will be spent at Wiggle for some new Shimano dual pivots and levers

Before you splash, consider the Campagnolo mirage brakes, I was amazed not only do they have great stopping power compared to my 105 new & old versions, ultegra, R600, R400 or even the my Cane Creek's - oh yes they're very cheap as well.

Campagnolo Mirage Brakeset 2009 Black - Pair F&R
ID: 81550 Unit Price: 26.99 GBP

Oops would help if I told you where I bought them http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/

I'm using Cane Creek light weight brake levels
Cane Creek SCR-5 Levers Pair - Black/Silver
ID: 87318 Unit Price: 29.99 GBP

Thanks mate, I'll have a look into that. I'm also considering chopping my handlebars down and going for the bullhorn look :twisted:

itboffin

Wrath Rob wrote:

itboffin wrote:

itboffin wrote:

Wrath Rob wrote:

I saw that too and though it was a load of old bull. Totally made up on the spot!

No commuting for me today as I'vet got 24 hour man-flu. Back on the bike tomorrow and it will be the new SS! Huzzah, its finally here. Pics to follow but at the moment I'm slightly concerned by the brakes, or rather the lack of them. Don't get me wrong, its got brakes, they just seem to be a pretty ineffectual 35 year old design with blocks that don't face onto the rims quite right and therefore need some "bedding in". Plus the levers are pretty uncomfortable to ride on the drops. Me thinks £50 will be spent at Wiggle for some new Shimano dual pivots and levers

Before you splash, consider the Campagnolo mirage brakes, I was amazed not only do they have great stopping power compared to my 105 new & old versions, ultegra, R600, R400 or even the my Cane Creek's - oh yes they're very cheap as well.

Campagnolo Mirage Brakeset 2009 Black - Pair F&R
ID: 81550 Unit Price: 26.99 GBP

Oops would help if I told you where I bought them http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/

I'm using Cane Creek light weight brake levels
Cane Creek SCR-5 Levers Pair - Black/Silver
ID: 87318 Unit Price: 29.99 GBP

Thanks mate, I'll have a look into that. I'm also considering chopping my handlebars down and going for the bullhorn look :twisted:

I hope that was a joke :shock:

DiggingDeeper

Campagnolo mirage brakes

I'm no gear freak but gotta say these are pretty good. My mate has lent me his winter training bike (Ribble roadie) and these brakes have saved his baby several times in the last week. Better give him some money for it pretty soon.

What's going on in NE London - it's hybrid city, no b*ggers going roadie and the odd fixie are just on way to Camden so no action there or it would be curtains for their designer hair-does. Maybe all the roadies are hunkering down for the winter.

So despair then, did at least 35 bikes today and none you would break sweat for -- maybe tomorrow then.

Wrath Rob

itboffin wrote:

Wrath Rob wrote:

Thanks mate, I'll have a look into that. I'm also considering chopping my handlebars down and going for the bullhorn look :twisted:

I hope that was a joke :shock:

I never ride on the drops so I'm just carrying extra weight around that I don't need. And I think I'll start wearing more denim, rolled up on one leg :P

itboffin

Wrath Rob wrote:

itboffin wrote:

Wrath Rob wrote:

Thanks mate, I'll have a look into that. I'm also considering chopping my handlebars down and going for the bullhorn look :twisted:

I hope that was a joke :shock:

I never ride on the drops so I'm just carrying extra weight around that I don't need. And I think I'll start wearing more denim, rolled up on one leg :P

This is an emergency call 999 now - your very very sick, i'll prey for you :shock:

Littigator

Wrath Rob wrote:

itboffin wrote:

Wrath Rob wrote:

Thanks mate, I'll have a look into that. I'm also considering chopping my handlebars down and going for the bullhorn look :twisted:

I hope that was a joke :shock:

I never ride on the drops so I'm just carrying extra weight around that I don't need. And I think I'll start wearing more denim, rolled up on one leg :P

There's no way ITB would let you steal his look man....he'll duff you up if you do :shock:

itboffin

Look I wore jeans one time okay, one time...

DonDaddyD

Bassjunkieuk wrote:

D3, good comparison with the cars - my only problem is your penchant for Ferrari's :-) I prefer Aston Martins or Lambo's as they don't sound as tinny but thats a discussion for a different forum

I think at the end of the day it's gonna be down to individual riders to make a bike by bike call and listen to their hearts as to wheather it was a scalp or scalping when passing/being passed by one of these types of bikes. I'm sure there are plenty of riders on "fast hybrids" that are actually rubbish riders, much the same
with any other type of bike!

The FCN was only there as an initial guide for new people and not a hard and fast list of the relative speeds of each bike as ultimately it is the pilot that can make a bike fly or not :-)

I totally agree with you about Ferrari's. I much prefer Aston's, Lambo's and Porsche's (in that order). The little Aston (name escapes) has got to be my all time favourite car along with the Bera (Alpha Romero 'sp'). Only reason I put Ferrari links up is that they were the easiest links to find while at work.

Also agree with everything else you said about FCN and scalps being subjective to the individual.

Lastly, I encoutered a Mountain bike today along Clapham Common, the little blighter actually overtook me while looking back at me (it had been Me vs Hybrid day this morning) I immediately increased from 18mph to 21/22mph re-asserted my position on him and held it until I turned off towards Acre Lane as he carried on.

Earlier this morning I saw a Wilier (it had Escape written on the top tube). I gave chase, both desperate and delighted at finally encountering some real competition along my new commute, then some stupid women pulled out on my life nearly forcing me into another lane and into a van. Shouted at her, but most annoyingly I lost the Wilier (It had Fulcrum Racing 7s and I was going to draft it for a bit to listen to the sound of its beautiful freewheel!!!).

itBoffin wrote:

DonDaddyD do you remember how you felt when you crashed at the freewheel, well imagine the shame of arriving on the 28th to find you're scalp sitting in the basket of my shopper

*fight fight fight*

Maybe if you bought your 5 series I'd consider you a challenge... :roll:

Feltup

180 miles per hour!

Uphill!

I think I need to change the battery in my wireless transmitter

It was pretty damn slippy this morning, tiptoeing around the hairpin of doom, easing past the car with the dented back door and the tree growing out of it and wheel spinning up the gentle incline through the woods.

Anyone else struggle to get the power down today?

Bassjunkieuk

D3, I think the Aston your trying to remember is the V8 Vantage :-) Also is the other favourite a Alfa Romeo Brera? Anyhow enough of the car chit chat least I invoke the wrath of the gaming gods.......

Tore apart a little guy on his MTB/hybrid this morning. Saw him ahead of me on the main road in Croydon heading towards the horrid cycle lane (which I thought he was going to take judging from his position, missed it at the last moment) by the tram stop. I came flying past, just getting between him and the cobbles before nipping up the RHS of a bus a bit further ahead. Sods law though and the lights changed and I ended up between 2 buses with him behind me :-)

DonDaddyD

lost_in_thought wrote:

biondino wrote:

Have you bought it yet?

I'm actually after the mitus plus, but couldn't find a picture of it which displayed at work... I'm going to head up to Epic maybe the weekend after next... they have many a Viner I can try...

EDIT: Here we go:

Very nice bike, methinks we have similar tastes!

cjcp

lost_in_thought wrote:

biondino wrote:

Have you bought it yet?

I'm actually after the mitus plus, but couldn't find a picture of it which displayed at work... I'm going to head up to Epic maybe the weekend after next... they have many a Viner I can try...

EDIT: Here we go:

I thought that was Epic Cycles from the brick wall background. Bought my groupset from them - very nice chaps. I could happily use that place as a coffee shop - just sit down, sip coffee and look at bikes.

LiT - while you're there, have a look at their SS. I have to admit that it's very nice and was very tempted by it last year.

Littigator

cjcp wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

biondino wrote:

Have you bought it yet?

I'm actually after the mitus plus, but couldn't find a picture of it which displayed at work... I'm going to head up to Epic maybe the weekend after next... they have many a Viner I can try...

EDIT: Here we go:

I thought that was Epic Cycles from the brick wall background. Bought my groupset from them - very nice chaps. I could happily use that place as a coffee shop - just sit down, sip coffee and look at bikes.

LiT - while you're there, have a look at their SS. I have to admit that it's very nice and was very tempted by it last year.

So let me get this right, you are upgrading from a road bike that cost less than a packet of fags...to a carbon god machine that is the cycling equivalent of buying a Lambo and filling the petrol tank with viagra.....gnnurrrkkk bites fist

Wrath Rob

Well, this morning was the first day on the SS. Its going to be a painful week at this rate as I realise that I'm not as fit as I need to be. The gearing works out to be 81 inches, which could make the ride home interesting until my legs MTFU. Still, I'll be fitter by the end of it, which will make getting back on the Boardman seem like riding a dream

cjcp

Littigator wrote:

cjcp wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

biondino wrote:

Have you bought it yet?

I'm actually after the mitus plus, but couldn't find a picture of it which displayed at work... I'm going to head up to Epic maybe the weekend after next... they have many a Viner I can try...

EDIT: Here we go:

I thought that was Epic Cycles from the brick wall background. Bought my groupset from them - very nice chaps. I could happily use that place as a coffee shop - just sit down, sip coffee and look at bikes.

LiT - while you're there, have a look at their SS. I have to admit that it's very nice and was very tempted by it last year.

So let me get this right, you are upgrading from a road bike that cost less than a packet of fags...to a carbon god machine that is the cycling equivalent of buying a Lambo and filling the petrol tank with viagra.....gnnurrrkkk bites fist

You talking to me or LiT?

If me, my packet of fags cost more than your little box of tic-tacs. :twisted: