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  • tgotbtgotb Posts: 4,714
    This seems well thought out
    I don't think it's that well thought-out at all. It can be very useful to have a passenger use their phone to call your destination, talk to people you're planning to meet, check travel information/weather online, book a restaurant, call a hotel etc etc etc, it's something I do all the time. Same applies on trains; is the suggestion that people should be stopped from using their phones on trains?

    And why the exemption to allow phones to work again above 200mph? Is it to allow phone use on selected Chinese, Japanese and European high-speed trains, but only when travelling near their maximum speed?

    In fact, stopping anyone travelling by any means other than walking from using their phone, just to stop people texting at the wheel, would seem to be a very good example of a poorly thought-out argument. You won't even stop people texting at the wheel in slow-moving traffic (unless you want to stop pedestrians using their phones too...)
    Pannier, 120rpm.
  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,478
    I use buses and trains more than a car. A phone automatically stopping working over 20mph shows a very car-centric view of the world.
    Well - the Geolocation should be able to tell the difference in travelling down a trainline compared to a road ...
    Buses - that's more a quandary - perhaps the locational density of phones?

    Problem I would have with phones automatically turning off is that there can be legitimate use of a (drivers) phone whilst underway - for example - wife and I have phones on different networks - whilst we're traveling, the passenger will/can use whichever device has signal for navigation or other things. Usually the device itself, sometimes just hotspoting - eitherway - arbitrary turning off of the device because it's moving >20mph would not be helpful. Anyway, I don't think the phone software developers would build that in unless compelled to by law.
    The way things are going, I can't see the need - we'll be on more driver assist vehicles soon enough.
  • tgotbtgotb Posts: 4,714
    Would screw my Satnav too; Satnav gets live traffic information from the car's wifi hotspot, which leverage's the phone's data connection.

    I think a better solution to the OP's problem would be to disable phones moving between 20-200mph *in the USA*. That should be fine because, based on what I've seen on TV, everyone there either travels on their own in a very large car, or by plane. The passenger trains are all underground (no signal) and no-one walks anywhere.

    *My experience of actually being in the USA is a bit different, but let's not allow that to spoil things.
    Pannier, 120rpm.
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,286
    slowbike wrote:
    Well - the Geolocation should be able to tell the difference in travelling down a trainline compared to a road ...

    You'd think, but I've used Google Maps quite a lot on trains in the UK and the rest of Europe. If the road and the railway are remotely close together, and they frequently are, it has a predisposition to assume you're on the road. So your phone would be constantly shutting down and starting up again.
  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,478
    keef66 wrote:
    slowbike wrote:
    Well - the Geolocation should be able to tell the difference in travelling down a trainline compared to a road ...

    You'd think, but I've used Google Maps quite a lot on trains in the UK and the rest of Europe. If the road and the railway are remotely close together, and they frequently are, it has a predisposition to assume you're on the road. So your phone would be constantly shutting down and starting up again.
    only if it assumes you're on the road from the beginning ... anyway - I wouldn't want it for reasons already stated above... so it doesn't matter that you could use a combination of location/speed/movement to know that you're on a train and not shut down...


    I did have a thought on another way - force the user to do one of those image captcha things - click on all the squares with traffic lights in - give it a short enough time slot and if the user is driving they'll crash before being able to get it right - problem sorted! ;)
  • tgotbtgotb Posts: 4,714
    slowbike wrote:
    I did have a thought on another way - force the user to do one of those image captcha things - click on all the squares with traffic lights in - give it a short enough time slot and if the user is driving they'll crash before being able to get it right - problem sorted! ;)
    Or (somehow) make it socially unacceptable. Back in the day, drink driving was pretty common, and minimally enforced. It now seems much more of a minority activity; that's down to public attitudes rather than a significant change in enforcement.
    Pannier, 120rpm.
  • tgotb wrote:
    slowbike wrote:
    I did have a thought on another way - force the user to do one of those image captcha things - click on all the squares with traffic lights in - give it a short enough time slot and if the user is driving they'll crash before being able to get it right - problem sorted! ;)
    Or (somehow) make it socially unacceptable. Back in the day, drink driving was pretty common, and minimally enforced. It now seems much more of a minority activity; that's down to public attitudes rather than a significant change in enforcement.

    But there being a significant penalty if you do get caught means people are less willing to do it even when they might be "just over the limit, I'm still safe to drive". A mandatory ban for mobile phone use at the wheel would have an effect, I'm sure.
    and then the next thing you know
  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,478
    tgotb wrote:
    slowbike wrote:
    I did have a thought on another way - force the user to do one of those image captcha things - click on all the squares with traffic lights in - give it a short enough time slot and if the user is driving they'll crash before being able to get it right - problem sorted! ;)
    Or (somehow) make it socially unacceptable. Back in the day, drink driving was pretty common, and minimally enforced. It now seems much more of a minority activity; that's down to public attitudes rather than a significant change in enforcement.

    But there being a significant penalty if you do get caught means people are less willing to do it even when they might be "just over the limit, I'm still safe to drive". A mandatory ban for mobile phone use at the wheel would have an effect, I'm sure.

    When was the penalty doubled? I still see people at the wheel on their phones - and I don't travel far ... for many, there's so little chance of being caught that the penalty is immaterial...
  • slowbike wrote:
    tgotb wrote:
    slowbike wrote:
    I did have a thought on another way - force the user to do one of those image captcha things - click on all the squares with traffic lights in - give it a short enough time slot and if the user is driving they'll crash before being able to get it right - problem sorted! ;)
    Or (somehow) make it socially unacceptable. Back in the day, drink driving was pretty common, and minimally enforced. It now seems much more of a minority activity; that's down to public attitudes rather than a significant change in enforcement.

    But there being a significant penalty if you do get caught means people are less willing to do it even when they might be "just over the limit, I'm still safe to drive". A mandatory ban for mobile phone use at the wheel would have an effect, I'm sure.

    When was the penalty doubled? I still see people at the wheel on their phones - and I don't travel far ... for many, there's so little chance of being caught that the penalty is immaterial...

    Doubled to 6 points and £200 wasn't it? That's not much of a deterrent unless you already have 6 points. My view is that the chance of getting caught being slightly over the limit is pretty low as well, but people try to avoid it for two reasons - 1) you will lose your licence if you are unlucky enough to be caught, and 2) it's accepted to be dangerous. And it's generally accepted that 1) is true because of 2).

    If both those things could be true for mobile phone use, you'd see a reduction.
    and then the next thing you know
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,286
    Another contributory reason could be that losing your licence these days frequently means losing your job too. As a former colleague of mine found out.
  • itboffinitboffin Posts: 19,622
    HRM told me it was coming on Sat and i'd forgotten how rough flu feels
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  • wolfsbane2kwolfsbane2k Posts: 2,957
    keef66 wrote:
    Another contributory reason could be that losing your licence these days frequently means losing your job too. As a former colleague of mine found out.

    The exceptional hardship rule is so often played (and stupidly accepted) the risk of actually losing your licence appears so rare.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-3728399

    If only people who's job/livelihood relied on them keeping their driving licence, drove as though their livelihood relied on them keeping it.. .
    Intent on Cycling Commuting on a budget, but keep on breaking/crashing/finding nice stuff to buy.
    Bike 1 (Broken) - Bike 2(Borked) - Bike 3(broken spokes) - Bike 4( Needs Work) - Bike 5 (in bits) - Bike 6* ...
  • drhaggisdrhaggis Posts: 790
    Riding home today, by the Meadows, a Nissan Qashqai, that had seen me because we'd been trading places thanks to lights a hundred meters before, decided to squeeze me, on the painted bike lane, while doing 22-23 mph. It's not that I could reach out and touch the car, it's that I could hit it with my elbow without releasing the bloody handlebar.
  • asprillaasprilla Posts: 8,440
    Roadworks in Kingston. Ok, you need repair the road, but do you need to use the separate cycle track over the bridge as your plant site?

    I hate riding up the hill under John Lewis. Hate it.
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  • j_mcdj_mcd Posts: 470
    That bloody abandoned car on the Embankment near Vauxhall Bridge. It's been sitting on a red single line, in a cycle lane for over a week now, why hasn't it been towed?!
    Giant Defy Advanced 0 - Best
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  • tgotbtgotb Posts: 4,714
    j_mcd wrote:
    That bloody abandoned car on the Embankment near Vauxhall Bridge. It's been sitting on a red single line, in a cycle lane for over a week now, why hasn't it been towed?!
    +1 - I've just reported it to Westminster Council (though surely they must already be aware).
    Pannier, 120rpm.
  • If only people who's job/livelihood relied on them keeping their driving licence, drove as though their livelihood relied on them keeping it.. .

    Amen.
    and then the next thing you know
  • Just caught up with the recent posts on 'phones turning off when in a car. Most 'phones have an option to turn off notifications whilst driving. If you're the passenger, you can overrule this.
    On this general subject: What grates with me is that a motoring group has stated that one is twice as likely to be distracted and therefore cause an accident when using a 'phone at the wheel than by being over the drink-drive limit, yet the penalty for the former is six points on your licence whereas for the latter it is an immediate ban.
  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,478
    tootsie323 wrote:
    whereas for the latter it is an immediate ban.
    Woh - didn't know this ... but then I don't drink & drive anyway so don't bother to discover the penalties for things I don't do ....
  • tgotbtgotb Posts: 4,714
    tootsie323 wrote:
    On this general subject: What grates with me is that a motoring group has stated that one is twice as likely to be distracted and therefore cause an accident when using a 'phone at the wheel than by being over the drink-drive limit, yet the penalty for the former is six points on your licence whereas for the latter it is an immediate ban.
    Depends what you mean by "over the drink-drive limit".

    It's not something I would do, but I reckon I could drink enough to be comfortably over the limit (say 50%) and still be safer than a lot of sober drivers out there. If I tried to carry out a conversation by text message (or even just read a text every minute or so) I reckon I'd be far more of a danger. Of course if I tried to drive when blotto I'd likely be over-confident and extremely dangerous...
    Pannier, 120rpm.
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,286
    "but I reckon I could drink enough to be comfortably over the limit (say 50%) and still be safer than a lot of sober drivers out there"

    Lots of people think that, but whenever they've tested the theory in controlled conditions the evidence suggested otherwise. Many suffer significant impairment well below the UK drink drive limit.
  • tgotbtgotb Posts: 4,714
    keef66 wrote:
    Lots of people think that, but whenever they've tested the theory in controlled conditions the evidence suggested otherwise. Many suffer significant impairment well below the UK drink drive limit.
    You haven't seen the sober drivers round here; they set the bar pretty low!
    Pannier, 120rpm.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 47,893 Lives Here
    It's the tiredness I've noticed. A few sleepless nights and my driving goes from censored to really very sh!t.
  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,478
    It's the tiredness I've noticed. A few sleepless nights and my driving goes from censored to really very sh!t.

    Be careful - a driver has just been jailed by the local magistrates for falling asleep at the wheel and causing the death of a 16yo girl... 28 months jail (serve 14 inside), 38 months driving ban and a victim surcharge ... his early guilty plea was noted....
    of course, his remorse and time served don't bring back the young life that was lost.

    Makes it hard to do the right thing - because we've all got to carry on (employers don't generally like you asleep on the job!) - but little ones don't know that we need sleep..
    At least I was lucky enough that in the early days, I could (and did often) cycle to work and back.

    I certainly don't miss those sleep interruptions!
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 47,893 Lives Here
    I can believe it.
  • vpnikolovvpnikolov Posts: 568
    slowbike wrote:
    It's the tiredness I've noticed. A few sleepless nights and my driving goes from censored to really very sh!t.

    Be careful - a driver has just been jailed by the local magistrates for falling asleep at the wheel and causing the death of a 16yo girl... 28 months jail (serve 14 inside), 38 months driving ban and a victim surcharge ... his early guilty plea was noted....
    of course, his remorse and time served don't bring back the young life that was lost.

    Makes it hard to do the right thing - because we've all got to carry on (employers don't generally like you asleep on the job!) - but little ones don't know that we need sleep..
    At least I was lucky enough that in the early days, I could (and did often) cycle to work and back.

    I certainly don't miss those sleep interruptions!
    I wish the driver that killed a friend of mine just before last Christmas had the same standards... Fell asleep behind the wheel on the A219 between Wimbledon and Putney and collided with him at 80mph. A young life lost because someone clearly knew that he wasn't fit to drive, but still decided to sit behind the wheel.

    Where has common sense gone nowadays...
  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,478
    vpnikolov wrote:
    slowbike wrote:
    It's the tiredness I've noticed. A few sleepless nights and my driving goes from censored to really very sh!t.

    Be careful - a driver has just been jailed by the local magistrates for falling asleep at the wheel and causing the death of a 16yo girl... 28 months jail (serve 14 inside), 38 months driving ban and a victim surcharge ... his early guilty plea was noted....
    of course, his remorse and time served don't bring back the young life that was lost.

    Makes it hard to do the right thing - because we've all got to carry on (employers don't generally like you asleep on the job!) - but little ones don't know that we need sleep..
    At least I was lucky enough that in the early days, I could (and did often) cycle to work and back.

    I certainly don't miss those sleep interruptions!
    I wish the driver that killed a friend of mine just before last Christmas had the same standards... Fell asleep behind the wheel on the A219 between Wimbledon and Putney and collided with him at 80mph. A young life lost because someone clearly knew that he wasn't fit to drive, but still decided to sit behind the wheel.

    Where has common sense gone nowadays...

    I'm not trying to take the moral high ground - I'm tired today - but I've got a 30 mile trip after work - by car. It's on roads I know - which is probably worse. Ultimately, if I feel I can't drive safely then I won't do the trip - but that's pretty unlikely.
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,286
    In the days when I did a lot of driving if ever I felt dozy I'd find somewhere for a 15 minute nap which helped far more than coffee or red bull. Better to arrive 20 minutes late than not at all.
  • pangolinpangolin Posts: 1,989
    Stopped driving 25 minutes from home yesterday to have a coffee and a bit of fresh air. Felt silly stopping so close to home but I'd have felt really stupid dozing off so close to home.
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  • tgotbtgotb Posts: 4,714
    ^ these points all highlight the problem, which is that most people will avoid drinking in order to be safe, but won't avoid driving in order to be safe.

    Drinking alcohol, being very tired, and being very ill can all have a serious detrimental impact on someone's ability to drive safely. Drinking alcohol is a choice, so it's fairly easy to avoid drink driving, whereas being ill or tired generally aren't choices. You can still avoid driving whilst very ill or very tired, but most people aren't prepared to make that choice. Pick the kids up from school by car after a boozy lunch and you'll rightly be vilified; do the same after dragging yourself out of bed with a fever and you'll more likely be praised for struggling in. You could probably have avoided driving (public transport, call in a favour, taxi) but you chose not to.
    Pannier, 120rpm.
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