Etape Caledonia - oh for Gods sake!

leloby

Dear Elistoun,

My grievance is with Perth & Kinross Council, not with cyclists or their families.

You should be ashamed of yourself! Surely as someone who, 1/ runs a hotel in the area and 2/ has already been bitten by the Etape, you should be advertising your hotel as Etape friendly and trying to lure the Etapists to your place. If its only 19miles from the A9 then its in a pretty good bit for some of the entrants who couldn't get to stay in Pitlochry or nearby.

The fact that you are publicly trying to justify some sort of taxpayers handout for LOSS of income when in fact you should have got your finger out and actually drummed UP some income is reprehensible.

It beggars belief that a local business person cannot capitalise on this only event of its kind per year and only operates 19miles from it!

Losing business - you should be ashamed of yourself! Sounds like sour grapes to me. It was nigh-on impossible to get late bookings for a Saturday night in the area - what were you doing - turning people away???

I had no event-related enquiries for accommodation and no subsequent business from anyone returning to the area as a result of having attended the 2007 event.

You really need some lessons on marketing and advertising don't you. Nevermind simple arithmetic.

elistoun

you should be advertising your hotel as Etape friendly and trying to lure the Etapists to your place.

The fact that you are publicly trying to justify some sort of taxpayers handout for LOSS of income .........

what were you doing - turning people away???

I have no problem marketing my business or in filling the place at weekends in the May - September period with 2 and 3 night dinner, bed and breakfast bookings.

The typical "Etapist" wants a single Saturday night bed and breakfast booking, and may, but probably will not, want dinner, bottle of wine etc on the Saturday evening.

The multi-night bookings deterred and displaced by this event are much BETTER business than the business which displaces / replaces them. Neither do they involve the extra cost of providing 5.30 a.m. breakfasts and extra staff hours to cover rooms not vacated until late afternoon and WCs, showers and baths unable to be cleaned until the time that evening meal preparation was in full swing - and all for the cost of a single night's booking.

No - Etape business is NOT good business !!!

(I also suspect that if there was no Saturday registration a significant number of participants would not stay overnight in the area at all).

Neither have I asked for, nor do I expect any handout from taxpayers like myself. What I have the right to expect is a level playing field without the local authority creating conditions which benefit one area of Highland Perthshire at the expense of others.

Nor did I turn anyone away.

I did have enquiries from 4 event participants for the Saturday night who decided against staying when they learned how far my place was from the start point; how early they would have to get up to reach it before the road closures kicked in; and how their wives / partners would be unable to get to Pitlochry unless they also got up early and travelled before the roads closed.

bilbo.baggins

elistoun wrote:

I did have enquiries from 4 event participants for the Saturday night who decided against staying when they learned how far my place was from the start point; how early they would have to get up to reach it before the road closures kicked in; and how their wives / partners would be unable to get to Pitlochry unless they also got up early and travelled before the roads closed.

Hi Elistoun, I'm still assuming you are in Kinloch Rannoch or thereabouts, especially given your comment on 'how early people [entrants] would have to get up to reach the start before road closures'. It's a lovely area. Assuming this is correct, I come back to my earlier point where I queried if the road closure being lifted by 09:00/09:40 helped as this was one of the significant changes this year. Did it help, and would having them lifted even earlier help still more? Even if you are in a different area, did the reduced closure times help?

I for one would have liked to have stayed in this area - I couldn't get a room in Pitlochry. Getting up early to get to the start before the road closure isn't an issue as otherwise you miss the event! If it's on the route my wife could have watched the event, and she would be able to drive down to Pitlochry to meet me at the end. Seems perfect. You even had an early breakfast which I'd have loved - the place I was staying at didn't offer breakfast at such at early hour

TBJ

Here's an answer - don't tell your bookings about the Etape!

Last weekend, a colleague at work had booked a camping site at the foot of Schiehallion for some family hill walking. Woke up Sunday to find they were trapped. At no point had the camp site mentioned the road closure to them!

They made the most of it, cheered the riders on and the kids insisted on waiting to see the last one. She did remark how the average weight of the riders went up during the course of the morning...

I suspect the length of the closure isn't the problem for Elistoun's bookings, its perception. They hear there's a road closure and just cancel, not bothering to work out that if they treated themselves to a lie in and a late breakfast they wouldn't be inconvenienced at all.

Personally I'd like to see hotels etc that did lose out badly noted on some official site (Etape/council?) so that I could seek them out next time I'm cycle touring the area and spend a few pounds to make it up, rather than just stay in Pitlochry as I usually do.

If event numbers continue to climb I think we might start to see special Etape hotel rates - Early breakfast and use of shower, but at twice the usual price!

leloby

Dear Elistoun,

What I have the right to expect is a level playing field

Thats a direct quote from Maggie Thatcher.

Anyway, I just don't get the impression that you made a decent go of it, considering that you have already encountered what the road closures brought the year before. And the roads were opened much earlier this year too!

I also get the impression that you are going to be out of pocket NEXT year if you don't change your way of thinking.

The Etape du Tour in France would amaze you how well these events can benefit local businesses. In this event, participants take part in a stage of the Tour and there is no 'loop' as in the Etape Caledonia. Riders get the option to leave their vehicles at the finish and get the coach back to the start town the day before thus benefitting both towns economies. The roads are generally closed for 10hrs and then they are closed for about 8hrs the NEXT day for the professionals coming through.

One of the best ones yet was Limoges-St Flour in 2005. There was mass spending everywhere and most shops and hotels were caught up in 'Etape fever' offering discounts and special rates.

I have never heard ANYBODY complaining about ANYTHING on this. It goes like clockwork. Businesses gear up for it every year and there is huge competition between local councils as to who gets the honour of hosting the event.

So, take a hint from the French and praise the bike, the business and the Etape - it will work in your favour if you just adjust to its virtues. 1000 last year, 2500 this year, you'll be in for a shock next year if you dont start making the adjustments now.

And go to church on the Saturday night before if you can find a pew.

DazzaOnTheRoad

elistoun wrote:

These guests were made very welcome – the 4 year old stayed free of charge. We took delivery of their bikes from a courier and ensured that they were securely stored (£4000 carbon fibre machines) until picked up again. We were up at 5 am to give them breakfast before the participants left for Pitlochry. Although check out time is 1030 am, those in support had the run of the hotel + tea / coffee & scones FOC throughout the day, and the participants booked in for just one night were able to have hot showers on return FOC. They were treated with the utmost friendliness and courtesy and afforded the best hospitality we could offer. My grievance is with Perth & Kinross Council, not with cyclists or their families.

Hello Elistoun,

Thank you for your response. From what you describe this sounds like the ideal Etape Cycling Package. If I was you I would be packaging this up as a cycle specific package with a premium price and also be hassling the event organisation to get publicity on the event web site.

On another note you will be really happy to know that the 2009 entries are now open, any ideas on where I can stay ?

I would also like to point out that the weekend cost me a lot more than £49, my partner has credit cards and she knows how to use them.

Regards

Dazza

wildmoustache

hey guys, the £50k+ in tax I pay every year really inconveniences me and I see no reason why it should subsidise rural lifestyles

wildmoustache

leloby wrote:

Dear Elistoun,

What I have the right to expect is a level playing field

Thats a direct quote from Maggie Thatcher.

Anyway, I just don't get the impression that you made a decent go of it, considering that you have already encountered what the road closures brought the year before. And the roads were opened much earlier this year too!

I also get the impression that you are going to be out of pocket NEXT year if you don't change your way of thinking.

The Etape du Tour in France would amaze you how well these events can benefit local businesses. In this event, participants take part in a stage of the Tour and there is no 'loop' as in the Etape Caledonia. Riders get the option to leave their vehicles at the finish and get the coach back to the start town the day before thus benefitting both towns economies. The roads are generally closed for 10hrs and then they are closed for about 8hrs the NEXT day for the professionals coming through.

One of the best ones yet was Limoges-St Flour in 2005. There was mass spending everywhere and most shops and hotels were caught up in 'Etape fever' offering discounts and special rates.

I have never heard ANYBODY complaining about ANYTHING on this. It goes like clockwork. Businesses gear up for it every year and there is huge competition between local councils as to who gets the honour of hosting the event.

So, take a hint from the French and praise the bike, the business and the Etape - it will work in your favour if you just adjust to its virtues. 1000 last year, 2500 this year, you'll be in for a shock next year if you dont start making the adjustments now.

And go to church on the Saturday night before if you can find a pew.

You're right. Interestingly when I was in Foix last year I talked to a number of hoteliers and all said they were going to make far more from the etape than from the Tour proper.

Some village up north could make a fortune from this type of event. They ought to play to their strengths, rather than moan and ask London for more money.

Alain Quay

Interesting that the protests seem to be from a very small minority - both
B&Bs or similar. One would think they would benefit from the event, rather than
devote so much energy to castigating it. :roll:

Thankfully we live in a democracy.

athomson

(Participant this year and last - and hopefully for years to come.)

I don't think you can ignore the effects on the locals - look at an OS map of the route (http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/getamap/) and see how many houses and hamlets have only one road in and out (plenty). We are lucky to have some of the facts and figures courtesy of Elistoun and others but lets face it, few of us really know what we are talking about re. the local effects.

The onus is on the organisers and the local council to find ways to minimise harm - some changes this year hopefully helped but perhaps it is appropriate to look at whether a profit is made this year, and if so, think about channelling some of it back into local projects / developments that will encourage tourism year-round. If no profits, then maybe a small "local charity" levy on the competitors (yes yes i know it is already expensive, but you get what you pay for...)

Seems to be an awful lot of folk on here know a lot about events elsewhere - okay, then lets use that expertise to advise those disadvantaged by our fun and encourage organisers and council to develop specific solutions for businesses.

Of course it needs closed roads, but lets have a bit less of the patronising "some village up north" or "NIMBYs" stuff, please!

PS Does anyone know the rough split time between the cheeky wee brae at Logie Rait and the finish - I was going bloody well until my chain snapped!

gavintc

Well, the entries are open already for next year - same route, same weekend and same timings - oh and most important same price.

leloby

You know, I'm sitting here cursing the 'English' bank holiday for loss of sales due to my suppliers being closed when I thought - THATS why the Etape was last week and not this weekend.

How do bank holidays effect business for you Elistoun et al, running tourist attractions and hotels in Perthshire?

Will we be having a bad revenue weekend this weekend will we? Doubt it.

The roads are open again remember.

It puts it all in context. Swings and roundabouts and contingency plans. The latter of which I think you failed to organise.

ellieb

From the BBC News Website:

"Edinburgh is gearing up for its biggest marathon yet with more than 13,000 competitors due to take part in the annual race, raising £3m for charity.

Sunday's event, which is second only to London in UK marathons, has doubled its number of runners and tripled the prize money on offer.

Its growing popularity also means it is worth £3m to the Capital, as hotel rooms are snapped up."

Compare to their coverage of the Etape Caledonia. It is a closed road event as well. Including householders being trapped in their houses

Mr Celine

Jim Clark rally this weekend in Berwickshire. Also on closed roads every year since 1996, trapping residents etc etc.

Annual local spend £3.3M.

wakemalcolm

athomson wrote:

PS Does anyone know the rough split time between the cheeky wee brae at Logie Rait and the finish - I was going bloody well until my chain snapped!

Hi, I think I was in your group (or saw someone else with a snapped chain at the same place). I was riding a VN with the Rohloff and someone who knew the route shouted to go down a couple of cogs just as we approached the corner (king of the understatement, that guy) if that helps identification.

When we hit the corner it was 4:07 and I finished in 4:23 but I was suffering by them so you could probably knock a minute or 2 of that.

How did you get back to the start?

patriot6

great event well worth the 8hr drive up to ride on closed roads
the road closer is not going to keep everyone happy but with so many other sportives within 2hr drive of south wales if the roads are not closed i will not make the 8hr drive up

bompington

athomson wrote:

PS Does anyone know the rough split time between the cheeky wee brae at Logie Rait and the finish - I was going bloody well until my chain snapped!

Well, from the turning up the hill you had 5.8% of the distance and 8.5% of the climbing to go. Hope that helps.

I personally managed it bang in line with my average over the whole route even though I was actually clinically dying at the time, it was only because my legs had been spinning for so long they'd forgotten how to stop, big event atmosphere and the knowledge I was nearly there helped I think.

PS - re the helpful cadets at the finish taking off the timing chips: I'm glad I discovered the loose front wheel before I was going all that fast downhill on my way to work last week...

athomson

wakemalcolm wrote:

Hi, I think I was in your group (or saw someone else with a snapped chain at the same place). I was riding a VN with the Rohloff and someone who knew the route shouted to go down a couple of cogs just as we approached the corner (king of the understatement, that guy) if that helps identification.

When we hit the corner it was 4:07 and I finished in 4:23 but I was suffering by them so you could probably knock a minute or 2 of that.

How did you get back to the start?

Thanks very much for that - I was riding a Ribble with a Peugot top and I am no master of the understatement - ironically enough it was me shouting the warning and I meant two cogs at the front...

Thanks to a helpful marshall with a mobile and open roads nearby I got picked up soon enough.

And at least I've only got beat my crap time for last year, next year!

leloby

Did anyone see the guy going over the bars and ripping his shoulder out? Thank goodness that it was a RACE - if it was just a wee day out there would have been a huge bottleneck of rubber-neckers.

Apparently he's back home safe and sound anyway. Thanks to the quick ambulance service for that.

wildmoustache

residents trapped!! oh no!

bof

I have suffered months of road disruption - on one side a massive drainage scheme - doesnt benefit me,I live above the level that gets floods, on the other the A40 Bridge replacement, doesnt benefit me much but it will benefit all those 10,000s per day who drive to and from central London spewing noise and fumes over the area I live in.

So do I get compensation? No! Do I whinge about it, yes sometimes. Do I expect compensation, No!

To the Perthshire Nimbys, I say you live in a highly subsidised part of a small highly populated island, so just get over your three hours of disrupted, closed roads a year for the benefit of others whose taxes heavily subsidise your neck of the woods.

Mikey joe

Sorry BOF

I'm a cyclist living very near to perthshire and am in favour of the road closures. So I agree with you on that. But settle down with the subsidy thing will you. Because 1. it adds nothing to the discussion and 2. If you want to be factually correct about it (and I'm sure you do) Scotland is not subsidised by anyone. north sea oil revenues etc etc!

Anyway peace out

Cheers

Mj

fenski

+1 Mikey Joe

The 'highly subsidised' comment was totally unnecessary, arguably inaccurate and also quite ironic given that BOF had started his post by mentioning 2 expensive major infrastructure improvement projects underway in his local area, the likes of which rural Perthshire would never see!

I've kept out of this discussion because I did not take part in the event, however my tuppence worth:

1) I agree the road closures were necessary to hold an event of this magnitude on these roads. I know people living out towards Aberfeldy who enjoyed the resultant peace and quiet on the morning of the event.
2) I quite like some of the suggestions about moving the start/finish and changing the route on an annual basis so that the financial benefits are distributed around the area. There are arguably better routes to be had from Aberfeldy including Glen Quaich, the Lawers climb and Glen Lyon. Then there's the Angus Glens if you were to head to Blairgowrie
3) I find the organising and marketing of this event a bit too commercial for my liking - all the sponsors links, personalised training plans etc are a bit off-putting. I prefer the lower key approach taken by the likes of HandsOnEvents who do the Bealach challenges.