Etape Caledonia - oh for Gods sake!

bilbo.baggins

Nickwill wrote:

Sorry, but the Fred Whitton runs over Hardknott and Wrynose which have sections that are almost less than single track, all this and 30% climbs as well. All this and in the heart of the Lake District during the tourist season! Admittedly they only(!) have 1000 entries, but the roads really are more extreme, with a lot more traffic.
The same could be said for most of the sportives that I have ridden. This is the sort of event that could really get a bandwagon rolling against sportives. We rely on goodwill and cooperation with local communities. Without this a section of the sport that I and many other people really enjoy could come under threat.

Nickwill, quick Q. Have you cycled the route of the Caledonia Etape? I have cycled both routes (and many other sportives) and I would consider some of the roads in the Etape (not the climbs/descents) to be on a much more dangerous scale due to potential impact with cars with no means of avoidance. Over 3/4'rs of the route is on narrow single track.

I have also read reports (albeit limited in number) of driver frustration and aggressive driving during the FW as the cars can't get by at times. To take an alternative view, and to ensure safety of your fellow cyclists, potentially you should be campaigning for limited road closures during the FW?

wakemalcolm

Results went up on the site this morning. Any idea how the guy on the recumbent with the disk wheels got on (or got past the start line - I thought they were banned)?

aberdeen_lune

I rode the event yesterday and thought it was fantastic. There is no way the event could have been run with over 2000 cyclists on open roads safely. It was well publicised in advance so locals could make alternative arrangements. I know its a pain if your not interested in cycling but its only a few hours once a year. Is that too much to ask? As for the villages on the route they can only benefit from the event. I rode through some fantastic scenery and will be booking up a weekend in a hotel in the area later in the summer. No doubt quite a few of the 2000 odd cyclists will return to the area after Sundays fantastic advert for its natural beauty.

Is this Scotland at its best shooting itself in the foot again. We have a beautiful country we want the boost to the economy that tourism provides but we dont want to be inconvenienced in the slightest. A change in attitude is whats needed here. We need to take a leaf out of the French and italians attitude to cycling and other sports.

As for the Fred Whitton. That should be closed roads as well especially up the high passes. I'm sure the person who thinks it is right that it isn't loves to be buzzed by artics on the A66 and loves to meet a car coming the other way when pushing up a 30% gradient but I for one prefer not to.

At the end of the day its all about compromise. We cant have it all our own way and neither can the motorist.

pedylan

I rode last year's and this year's. I'd rather dwell on the cycling experience rasther than the distraction of a minority of locals with their own agenda.

The event was superbly organised again and the atmosphere in the town was a testament to cycling, to the local area and to the positive impact on the local economy from an event involving thousands of people.

To have a sportive on such a course is a privilege. The weather was a bonus compared to last year's deluge but for the cyclists among us it woudl be a great event whatever the conditions. I learnt from last year and gunned it from the start, got in with some good groups, in particular during the fortingall loop and teh last 30km was a complete blast - no-one I could see was dropped and the only riders passing us were in small fast groups of their own - and not many of them!! As a result I knocked 19mins of last year's time and came in under 4 and a half. The fastest times were also better than last year - 3 38 - chapeau!!

The guy on the recumbent passed me twice, second time just before the feed stop near Castle Menzies, presumed if he had a time he'd have been four and a quarter ish?

Thank you to all locals who put up with the inconvenience to allow this event to be such a unique cycling experience. Cheers to you all.

TBJ

wakemalcolm wrote:

Very professionally run event, the jury's still out on the route (especially the completely pointless Fortingall loop) and I've never done an event where everyone's just gunned it from the start like that.

I guess the Fortingall loop adds an extra 5 miles or so - I can't see any other obvious places to extend the route to a semi-decent distance.

Is it me, or do the narrow twisting roads of the loop help to reduce the peleton effect? Both years I've arrived at Schiehallion in a large group which broke up on the climb/descent. Then I've been able to catch small groups ahead and its been almost Weem before a large group formed again. I think the loop allows escapes and catch ups and makes it more fun.

Superb event all round - even the weather turned out right.

TBJ

KeithG wrote:

I lve in the area and I can absolutely say without hesitation, the vast majority of rural N Perthshire support the event. For every peevish curmudgeon in Aberfeldy and environs, there are 2 cheerful hoteliers and residents in Pitlochry who support it.
It's really just a local squabble between 2 small towns.
This campaign does not damage the cause of Sportives or cycling.
Closing a road for 3 hours on one day iout of the year is not unreasonable for the safety and enjoyment (and profit) of thousands.

Every local I talked to said much the same. The protestors were seen as a small minority lead by a well known local character who compalins about everything.

So why the extensive press coverage (papers, BBC) of the protest, with no mention of the other local voices? It comes cross as the council and those inconvienent non road-tax paying cyclists ruining honest road-users' entire day. Hmm, media agenda maybe?

rabk

wakemalcolm wrote:

Results went up on the site this morning. Any idea how the guy on the recumbent with the disk wheels got on (or got past the start line - I thought they were banned)?

WM

I saw the recumbent at the end of the event, no idea what time he had done it in though.

Still buzzing from the event, I hope the local pressure, doesn't result in this event being cancelled, its the highlight of my cycling year.

As has been said earlier, a few nimbys, otherwise great support from the locals[/quote]

BillR1

I heard the guy on the recumbent saying that he managed sub 4 hours !!! Im selling my bike

Rgds, Bill

ellieb

Anyone know why the results page is visible using MS Internet Explorer, but when I use Firefox the page with the same web address shows the 2007 results :?

BillR1

http://www.etapecaledonia.co.uk/Results.html

Here is the link.

Rgds, BillR1

lugster77

i 99% sure i wouldn't have done it yesterday if it hadn't been run on closed roads, that was a big selling point for me with it being my 1st sportive and all! £49 did seem a touch excessive but seemed fair once you take into account all the organisational costs etc. i'd never really ridden in a group before sun but i managed to hang onto a group that stormed past at about 25mph about 55miles in which was a right buzz! can imagine the frustration if you lived in the area but i'm sure almost every single hotelier/b+b/pub etc in a 15mile radius was rubbing their hands together with glee. beautiful scenery,good route and am chuffed as a badger with my 4.43.43 finishing time! never averaged over 17mph on a ride before nevermind an 80odd miles 1! will definately be giving it a bash next year!

ps was there just the 1 recumbent? it shot past me (wherever i was!) but didn't look a very comfortable riding position to me!

pneumatic

Shame about the BBC coverage. Probably arises because they encourage local people to contact them with stories to put on those sections of the site and campaigners will be experienced at doing that. Perhaps Etape Caledonia could have tried to counter it with their own submission.

Better still is the piece on page 3 (oh yes!) of the (Glasgow) Herald today, in which the event is twice described as the "Tape Caledonia". You can imagine the sub editor down the phone to Pitlochry saying "Eh? What?" and their only reporter who is not obsessed with Glasgow football trying to help out by responding "the-e-tape, that's tap with an e!"

At least the (Dundee) Courier has a decent article on the front page and my daughter tells me I might be in the photo (behind her hero, Mark Beaumont). I'm off to the village shop for a copy!

rabk

pneumatic wrote:

Better still is the piece on page 3 (oh yes!) of the (Glasgow) Herald today, in which the event is twice described as the "Tape Caledonia". You can imagine the sub editor down the phone to Pitlochry saying "Eh? What?" and their only reporter who is not obsessed with Glasgow football trying to help out by responding "the-e-tape, that's tap with an e!"

At least the (Dundee) Courier has a decent article on the front page and my daughter tells me I might be in the photo (behind her hero, Mark Beaumont). I'm off to the village shop for a copy!

Was glad to see the Herald recognised that the event had taken place, but noticed the spelling error this morning too. "tap with an e"

elistoun

I live in the area and have followed the Etape Caledonia saga since late 2006. The comments made in this forum are remarkably ill-informed. The problem lies in the fact that the sections of the community which bear the social and economic costs of the event as a result of the road closures are not the same ones reapingthe economic benefit. In short - Pitlochry cleans up and the residents and businesses west of the A9 suffer.

Another bone of contention is that in 2007 £20000 of public money was given to the organiser to cover losses, and a further £12000 is commited for 2008. For those disadvantaged by the event this just adds insult to injury.

Those who took part will realise just how sparsely populated the event route is. It should therefore give pause for thought that close to 600 residents signed a petition against the road closures (note: not against holding a cycle event). It is also noteworthy that they have also entered a complaint of maladministration against the council for its mishandling of the issue and the undemocratic way it imposed this event on the residents.

Given the anger and sense of injustice felt by so many, it is to the local residents' credit that their protests have not been directed against the participants (it would have been too easy to spoil everyone's day), but against the road closures and the council which imposed them.

Finally, the abuse, some of it foul-mouthed and accompanied by obscene gestures, directed by some participants at locals silently and peacefully displaying their " Event Cyclists - YES; Road Closures - NO " posters did absolutely nothing for the cause of cycling.

This behaviour puzzled and surprised me until I read some of the arrogant, ignorant and ill-informed posts on this forum.

The posters did not mean Cyclists cash - yes; Road closures - no. Those demonstrating do not stand to gain from the event, (although some certainly lose because of its closed road format). They are honest, decent people who are invariably welcoming and hospitable to guests. It is a pity that some of the guests do not reciprocate.

redddraggon

People keep saying that locals lose out because the roads were closed for a few hours - I guess that those on the continent who suffer loads more road closures for cycling events must really lose out - but you don't hear any disagreements and if there were the road closures would have stopped long ago.

Whatever excuses the miserable Scots are using, it must be worse on the continent but it doesn't bother them there.

BigG67

elistoun wrote:

IIt should therefore give pause for thought that close to 600 residents signed a petition against the road closures (note: not against holding a cycle event). It is also noteworthy that they have also entered a complaint of maladministration against the council for its mishandling of the issue and the undemocratic way it imposed this event on the residents.

Finally, the abuse, some of it foul-mouthed and accompanied by obscene gestures, directed by some participants at locals silently and peacefully displaying their " Event Cyclists - YES; Road Closures - NO " posters did absolutely nothing for the cause of cycling.

This behaviour puzzled and surprised me until I read some of the arrogant, ignorant and ill-informed posts on this forum.

600 is still a minority. The roads are not their's and there are alternative routes for many or those living in the area. I had one tell me that she couldn't get to church when she could by driving another way and walking 200 yards.....in case you think she may be infirmed; instead she walked her dog and went to protest

I do however, totally agree about abusing those who protested, that is unacceptable and anyone who did should be ashamed.

In short we shouldn't be embarrassed to ask for roads to be closed, we have just as much right to them as anyone. Roads maintenance is Exchequer funded not council tax funded and so - while I do live in the area - the roads around here belong to someone in Glasgow, Edinburgh and yes even London as much as they belong to the good people of Perthshire.

With rising fuel costs, and hence everything costs, with pollution and the issues of global warming (not looking to open THAT debate up) and with the need to address obesity think we should all do our bit to encourage something that promotes cycling as much as this does.

KeithG

No Elistoun, you really cannot get away with this.
"invariably welcoming and hospitable to guests", those protesting were not being either of these to visitors to their area on Sunday.
The 600 who signed the petition were greatly outnumbered by the many who did not and the even greater number who participated, watched the event and prospered from the extra trade.
This is simply an issue of one small Perthshire town losing out while another gains and the grievance consequent on this.
There's also a pro-car aspect to this. Motorists must learn that minor (and other city)roads are there to be shared by all road users and sometimes this means a tiny proportion of the year is devoted to marathon runners, horse riders, pipe bands, cyclists and sundry other processions and for safety motorists briefly lose out.
A few, very few, were significantly obstructed on the day and financially disdvantaged. Some more were mildly inconvenienced, no more than this.
I regret the abuse the protestors suffered, that was rude and not very constructive at all and as a participant, you have my apologies.

pedylan

Hi Elistoun

Welcome to the forum, I trust you'll be more than a single issue poster.

To all protesters who suffered verbal abuse I also apologise. No group I was with on the course offered abuse and I would hope that only a handful of 2000 riders did so. Most cheering spectators were however greeted by a wave or a thank you. Judge cyclists appropriate to this majority behaviour.

The local council estimate 2% of businesses object and evidence of support among the community is widespread. Provided consultation processes are complete and balanced then democracy should prevail. This is how decisions are taken at all levels, not just on local matters. It seems to me that the road closure was fair and in the interests of the population, businesses and electorate of Perth and Kinross.

But I am intrigued to know what is you lose by these closures. Tourist businesses for miles around were full, not just in Pitlochty. The positive coverage of the whole area would cost millions in advertising budget equivalent. What is ACRE's campaign about? Roads closed for the minimum period could cause inconvenience to some but great benefit to many who depend on visitors year round.

What's the beef?

ellieb

The problem I have with the protesters is the incredible amount of hyperbole they come out with. I simply do not believe that a business is going to be ruined by being closed once a year for two or three hours on a Sunday morning. I saw someone on cyclosport.org mentioning that businesses in Edinburgh have lost 75% of their trade due to tramworks (as if that had anything to do with rural Perthshire) without mentioning that the roads concerned are being closed for weeks on end.
I don't think it is an infringement of your human rights; I don't think it is illegal; I don't believe that democracy has been ignored; I don't believe there is much that can't be rearranged on a Sunday morning without causing too much difficulty. I'm not saying it doesn't cause a little inconvenience, but that's all it is- a little inconvenience, which other people also have to put up with from time to time: Sporting events large & small, festivals, fairs, parades, film shoot, tramway construction, gas main repairs; dozens of different reasons lead to a road being closed. I really don't believe that the comment here, is ill informed, arrogant or ignorant.

Get a sense of perspective. Get a grip.

Alain Quay

Everything about the ride was fantastic, EXCEPT for the pathethic flat earthers and their silly protest. Fair enough you say, they are entitled to complain? Well this was clearly
a minority with too many posters, sour faced individuals doing their best to
to make cyclists feel unwelcome, and planting signage all along the route. :roll:

We could have been like Rangers fans. The cyclists were the
antithesis of those lamentable yobs. In Edinburgh we have to put up with road closures for everything from marathons to ugly sectarian marches, but c'est la vie.
The Perthshire road closure protesters COULD have been out raising money for China earthquake victims, Burma cyclone victims, Darfur/Zimbabwe refugees, etc., or just having a lie in. But och nae.

There are 8,757 hours a year when the roads are open. A few hours on a Sunday morning, to enjoy cycling without the threat of cars - two weeks after a scientist in
Ednburgh was brutally killed by one - and it's too much to ask. Pathetic.

A big thank you to the organisers, the marshalls and the 99% wonderful local people.
Roll on Etape Caledonia 2009.

bilbo.baggins

elistoun wrote:

I live in the area and have followed the Etape Caledonia saga since late 2006. The comments made in this forum are remarkably ill-informed. The problem lies in the fact that the sections of the community which bear the social and economic costs of the event as a result of the road closures are not the same ones reapingthe economic benefit. In short - Pitlochry cleans up and the residents and businesses west of the A9 suffer.

Elistoun. From your comments I presume you stay West of the A9. Please open your eyes and ears. This weekend I stayed West of the A9. I spent money on a B&B. I had dinner in the Kenmore area on Fri night. I had lunch in Aberfeldy on Sun. I had a second late-lunch (I was very hungry!) in Glen Lyon on Sun. I had dinner in Callender. I would not have spent money in all these areas if the event was not on.

elistoun wrote:

Another bone of contention is that in 2007 £20000 of public money was given to the organiser to cover losses, and a further £12000 is commited for 2008. For those disadvantaged by the event this just adds insult to injury.

I have read the council minutes reporting all these items on the web. I'll even try and dig them out. I think the money was given for publicising the area, and yes you are correct the organisers are losing money. I can only guess your campaign is to scare people off from doing this event so the organiser doesn't break even and pulls out. Another great goal for Scottish Business skills.

elistoun wrote:

Given the anger and sense of injustice felt by so many, it is to the local residents' credit that their protests have not been directed against the participants (it would have been too easy to spoil everyone's day)

thanks

elistoun wrote:

Finally, the abuse, some of it foul-mouthed and accompanied by obscene gestures, directed by some participants at locals

I apologise totally for this. If I had seen anyone being disrespectful in such a manner I would have given them a piece of my mind. Everyone had a very prominent number - did you take note of any?

nwallace

The simplest answer of course is to run the event on a Saturday afternoon.Doesn't get in the way of Church, doesn't stop the tourists heading in to the area for lunches, stops them getting out.... But then the hotels would make more from their bars due to trapped guests :P

I am perfectly aware of the Tay and Tummel disagreements and I know fine well that really religion is only being used as a political issue. It woudl be worth pointing out that Aberfeldy gets some benefit from increased visitors during the Colin McRae Stages and the Kenmore Hotel is generally sold out for the Saltire Classic.

Had there been a route I am capable of (10 hours to do 120km from Laggan Bridge to Perth) and a suitable starting time (I am not a morning person) I would have been there. Wouldn't have stopped me being able to twist my mind into the view of a trapped, hostile villager though.

pneumatic

Dear Elistoun

It is generally much easier to say no than to suggest an alternative.

so, please tell us what it would take for you to consider agreeing to the road closures

It is important that we know, because, frankly last year (in the rain) and this year (in perfect conditions) I had two of the most thrilling and inspiring bicycle rides of my life.

Nobody should abuse you for having a view, but we would like to know what could be done to persuade you.

Over to you.

poucher

I did this event yesterday as well,

Absolutely top day out, what a blast coming down from the top of the Schiehallion using both sides of the road carving great big ( fast :shock: ) turns, without fear of any traffic coming the other way!!

The scenery was fantastic looking back down the length of Loch Rannoch, and 99% of the spectators were great, I passed the old dear moaning that she couldn't get to Church that day ( I'm sure the man upstairs will forgive her 1 day off ) and also a farmer with a poster who reckons that the road closures for a few hours of one day had cost him £5,000 !! I'm in the wrong job :roll: 5 grand a day! quick, someone smarter than me work out how much a year that is??

On a more serious note though, cyclists abusing the protestors is an absolute disgrace and whoever it was should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves, and while I'm on the soapbox, I was disgusted by the amount of energy bar / gel wrappers dropped all over the roads - for gawds sake guys, would it kill you to shove the empty wrapper back in your pocket?? why go to a beautiful unspoilt place and drop litter all over the place, and yes there's probably a tidy up crew that followed the event, but I doubt they will be bothered to pick every wrapper up!

Must rate as one of my best bike days out ever, I dropped a clanger by staying at the Rannoch Hotel, 20 miles out of Pitlochry, so it took me ages to get to the start in the morning with the roads being closed, so I missed my start time by 20 mins, but it was a good laugh when i passed the Rannoch Hotel on the bike again as my Missus ( bless her! ) had dragged about 20 guests outside and they were all cheering my name when I went past!! I chuckled about that for the next 25 miles or so

I will definitely be back next year,

( but better organised ! )

Poucher

Lifeson

a farmer with a poster who reckons that the road closures for a few hours of one day had cost him £5,000 !! I'm in the wrong job

£5000 a day
The roads were only shut for a few hours
I was surprised that the majority of shops were shut in Pilochry at 5 yet the town was full of people when we went to register @ 6:30pm
Spent my money in the only souvenir shop that had the sense to stay open.

pneumatic

Agreed about the gel wrappers, bidons and other rubbish jettisoned; that is just unacceptable. I thought they were going to disqualify litterers (and it would improve my placing!)

C'mon guys, why do you think the place is so pigging beautiful in the first place? Because people haven't spoiled it (apart from damming the loch and putting tarmac everywhere, building houses, etc.. but I digress).

I don't care if there was a rubbish collection afterwards, there shouldn't have to be. We all have pockets!

That said, whosever rather nifty pump it was lying on the road to Logierait, followed shortly after by a brand new inner tube, you need to learn to darn, matey!

liversedge

elistoun
Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 1

Hit and run.

ellieb

Photos are in 8)

lochindaal

I am another one who thought it was a great day.

I struggle to see with the amount of people there how you can loose money. They should maybe embrace things even further and make it a cycling festival and earn more.

My full report of the day is on my website on my sig.

rabk

elistoun wrote:

Finally, the abuse, some of it foul-mouthed and accompanied by obscene gestures, directed by some participants at locals silently and peacefully displaying their " Event Cyclists - YES; Road Closures - NO " posters did absolutely nothing for the cause of cycling.

This behaviour puzzled and surprised me until I read some of the arrogant, ignorant and ill-informed posts on this forum.

.

Elistoun

I am sorry if people have abused you or other protestors, I for one saw no-one doing this, indeed everytime someone cheered or clapped me I waved and said thank you and I saw/heard lots of others doing this.

If you were abused it is wholly unacceptable. As someone said earlier report their number to the organisers.

I have to say I was overwhelmed once again by the support of the locals and can only assume that the protestors are in the minority. The support of the majority of the locals adds to the sense of occasion.

What your post illustrates however is that some of the views expressed on this forum appear to be correct. The first 2 paragraphs effectively suggest that your upset is largely due to certain areas not benefiting from the considerable input of cash from the organisation of the event. you have effectively reinforced the view of other posters on this forum - Not in my back yard - unless we get the cash

I had previously not taken this view and had assumed that the difficulties were more down to limitations on movement. Clearly this is not the case.

Furthermore the protestors complete intransigence on the matter of road closures is breathtaking. Please explain how this event could have been run without the majority of the roads being closed. If you spectated on Sunday you would have witnessed the large groups of cyclists, travelling at high speed down narrow lanes. It would have been completely unsafe to have other vehicles on the road.

Petty small town tribalism is not pretty to witness