Positive testosterone on Stage 11
Comments
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If you're going to lump everyone in with the bad apples, and remove innocent riders from the Tour then you've reached the stage where there is no point in having the race.
Whats the point in training hard but clean, suffering at the back of the pack for the best part of three weeks, only to be removed from the race due to association. Better just to take a chance and take the drugs.0 -
Well I suppose the man was at least honest in his dishonesty, because in addition (and contrary to what is stated in cycling news, quoted by Timoid)method wrote:"The Italian was questioned by police and Cofidis team manager Eric Boyer told Reuters: "He accepted his wrongdoing and did not ask for a B-sample."
Thats refreshing though.
... Moreni did not join his Confidis teammates at the protest, but rode away with Rasmussen and the other half of the peloton.Timoid. wrote:From cyclingnews.com
"Ironically, Moreni and the Cofidis team were part of a group of riders who staged a protest at the start of today's stage in Orthez, along with the other French teams and the Gerolsteiner squad. The teams came together to form the new 'Mouvement pour un cyclisme crédible' - and stayed behind at the start and allowing the rest of the peloton to ride on ahead."0 -
saisie wrote:If you're going to lump everyone in with the bad apples, and remove innocent riders from the Tour then you've reached the stage where there is no point in having the race.
Whats the point in training hard but clean, suffering at the back of the pack for the best part of three weeks, only to be removed from the race due to association. Better just to take a chance and take the drugs.
The point is that dopers like Sinkewitz and Moreni are probably just rogue elements in otherwise clean teams. They probably willing to take a ban, but may be be less willing to let their teammates suffer. It's kind of like if you were a criminal. You feel you can take the time if caught, but you'd think twice if you knew your family would be in jail as well.
It's usually easier to let yourself down than others.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Saisie you Sir are an Ostrich.0
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^^^haha0
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skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:Saisie you Sir are an Ostrich.
Not at all. I'm as aware of the problems of our sport as anyone else here.0 -
saisie wrote:If you're going to lump everyone in with the bad apples, and remove innocent riders from the Tour then you've reached the stage where there is no point in having the race.
Whats the point in training hard but clean, suffering at the back of the pack for the best part of three weeks, only to be removed from the race due to association. Better just to take a chance and take the drugs.
I'm gutted that Bradley's out now, but I think that it's right that Cofidis have gone. I think the issue here (& my issue with your argument) is that doping has become endemic in cycling & the culture needs changed radically. If the problem is endemic & widespread, it won't be sorted on an individual basis. This move should develop pressure both within & without the team not to dope & hugely increase the pressure on individuals not to do so. I can't say that's a bad thing: do you? It should also make Teams Slipstream & CSC with strong anti-doping policies more appealing to riders who don't want to lose out & aren't doping. Again, surely a good thing? I'm sure no-one here wants to see Bradley kicked out, especially given his anti-doping stance, but I'd rather see him go one year than to see the current farce repeated year-on-year...0 -
saisie wrote:If you're going to lump everyone in with the bad apples, and remove innocent riders from the Tour then you've reached the stage where there is no point in having the race.
Whats the point in training hard but clean, suffering at the back of the pack for the best part of three weeks, only to be removed from the race due to association. Better just to take a chance and take the drugs.
Exactly! If even the fair riders get removed then the dopers have nothing to lose. If they get caught then they know the consequences but if they don't then they've benefited. The whole point is to prove that dopers don't benefit and the best way to do that is not to kick out the clean riders.0 -
Will riders be willing to inform on team mates they suspect/know to be doping now? If the penalties are so harsh I think they will. So so sorry for Bradley but this is what needs to be done.
With these idiots around I cannot for the life of me see a future for pro cycling.
We, as a family, were going to see the Tour in London but did not due to last year's farce (albiet my eldest daughter did weaken and go in the end).
IN the end we have paid good money to go on holiday in France, sat on the side of the road on the Alpe for 10 hours - all for what (or rather for who). Never again - at least until a good few clean years have passed.0 -
Don't be daft! Come on. This is 2007, post Armstrong, post Landis, post Heras, post Ulrich, post Vino, post Moreni. Did you ever hear of Festina? Of Pantani? Did you hear Zabel and Aldag? Were you watching Riis? What about Gewis? Virenque? Wake up fella.0
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'm gutted that Bradley's out now, but I think that it's right that Cofidis have gone. I think the issue here (& my issue with your argument) is that doping has become endemic in cycling & the culture needs changed radically. If the problem is endemic & widespread, it won't be sorted on an individual basis. This move should develop pressure both within & without the team not to dope & hugely increase the pressure on individuals not to do so. I can't say that's a bad thing: do you? It should also make Teams Slipstream & CSC with strong anti-doping policies more appealing to riders who don't want to lose out & aren't doping. Again, surely a good thing? I'm sure no-one here wants to see Bradley kicked out, especially given his anti-doping stance, but I'd rather see him go one year than to see the current farce repeated year-on-year...
Indeed, there are enough young clean talents out there (Cav, Dekker, Andy Schleck numerous others) and enough experienced heads coming to the end ot their riding careers or just starting to enter management to effect some change, but if we only take the admitted bad apples then the young clean riders will never have enough of a catalyst for them to take action as the belief will be do their own thing and the dopers will get caught. By removing the teams involved and effectively writing off this years tour then it perhaps will act as the spark to this latent resource to be the leaders with ASO in bringing about change in the sport. As Rich95 says if your team mates, your team mates' families future depend on you being clean its a much more powerful disincentive than if the future punishment only effects you.0 -
Aaaargh - I've been miss-quoted with views completely opposite to my own!! :twisted: :twisted:
What I (and others) was saying is that ASO are doing the right thing by taking a firm stand - something the beaurocrats at the UCI don't have the bollocks (or authority) to do. The riders, such as Wiggo, who are clean will find new teams. But the actions of the ASO (not the UCI) will demonstrate to sponsors that only those teams who do their utmost to ensure that their riders do not dope will prosper. Thus, new teams such as Slipstream will rise to take the place of teams run by managers with history - Astana, Confidis, et al.0 -
Good old boy Millar Time. Peer pressure is the way forward - "You dope, I lose my job. So dont' do it pal". This is the most powerful argument anti-doping has, more power to it, even if in the short term it hurts people like Wiggins.0
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France2 now saying Moreni is in police custody tonight. Whatever happens with Moreni I hope he doesn't sit silently and let those who provided him with the products to remain anonymous.0
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they let him finish the stage before they told him..
Well at least hes just admitted it, hopefully he'll be in a position to let the authorities know how a lot more...dont knock on death\'s door.....
Ring the bell and leg it...that really pi**es him off....0
