Positive testosterone on Stage 11
Comments
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Blimey, amazing scenes.
Who'd of thought this tour would be more infamous then '98 ?
I have a feeling it's going to get worse before getting better though
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The BBC website are also reporting that the Cofidis team have withdrawn from the Tour.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/6916422.stm'Hello to Jason Isaacs'0 -
Like most people on here I am passionate about cycling and although I have only been riding for a limited number of years I first got into the sport of cycling in the midst of the Indurain era,so I consider myself to be reasonably knowledgeable about the sport's history if not the finer points of riding.
I am pleased to see that the controls are working and catching the cheats but like many on here I think that the riders are too much of an easy target.....as someone put it they are bottom of the food chain when it comes to doping.
Doping, in my opinion,will continue as long as the powers that be continue to be hypocritical in their approach to dealing with the problem. We often hear it said that it is 'part of the culture of certain teams and individuals in the past' so why then do the people associated with this 'past culture' still get to have a say in our sport today?
When teams employ known dopers as DS or managers or sign riders previously convicted of doping offences it makes a mockery of the 'Fight against doping' and does nothing to discourage younger riders from doping. I recently listened to David Harmon vent his anger against Riis' confessions during a live Eurosport broadcast and he finished by saying that it would be a long time before he spoke to Riis again....the very next sentence was a tale about the 'great' Johan Museeuw and how he was such a good bloke and great company on a recent ride in Europe ! Then later on the whole team of commentators waxed lyrical about their French colleague Virenque....yeah thats right the same lying, cheating darling of the French that doped his way to god knows how many polka dot jerseys and cried like a baby when caught.
If the UCI are serious about cleaning up the sport then they need to start by making anyone convicted of doping persona non grata within the sport. If this means that the likes of Riis,Holm,Hamilton,Basso,Zabel,et al get life bans so what? If it means the likes of Virenque get told to sling their hook by the TV stations who cares? Riders that are caught should be dropped like Boonen on a climb and told to find another career. The use of DNA to monitor riders should be mandatory and all those riders who object and talk about their rights should be told in no uncertain terms that if they don't sign up then they don't ride in the peloton unlike the present situation where the tail is most definitely wagging the dog! Sounds drastic but with so many sponsors on the verge of dropping the sport it needs a drastic solution.I don't know about you but every time I see pictures of these people in team cars or riding in the peloton It makes me wonder why anyone would want to sponsor a team that has known doping connections?
Oh and before anybody mentions Millar I think he has a nerve commenting on any doping controversy. He only coughed because of the threat of jail and should never have been allowed back.Wonder how many first time viewers in London knew that 'Our Dave' was a cheat in his past life?
Well thats my tuppence worth and no doubt I will get some strong replies but think of it this way, if cycling continues to make the headlines for all the wrong reasons the sponsors will soon disappear,followed by the TV companies and in turn the money. When the money runs out there won't be a pro peloton to test and all the cheats can ride together on a Sunday and sprint for the town sign to see who buys the coffee's with the only losers being you and me !!
P.S What price all 3 Grand tour winners this year being tested positive before the season is out?0 -
Despite the disappointment for Bradders, I'm glad that Confidis have been kicked out and that criminal proceedings seem to be likely. I think that the ASO should be aplauded for the zero tolerance approach they are taking - far more hard line than the UCI.
It is ASO's commercial product that is at risk here and they are taking the long term view - a bit (possibly a lot) of pain now in order to make it clear to all that they will not tolerate cheating.
It is inevitable that a few of the big name sponsors will pull out. Hopefully those who own and manage the teams now being found to have dopers on the books will not be able to find replacement sponsors. This will result in some of the smaller teams being promoted to the big league, and organisations like the ASO will be able to influence the way they develop and are managed, including a more proactive approach to dope testing. No doubt belts will have to be tightened and riders will take a pay cut, but the sport will not die. It will rise like a phoenix from the ashes!
Someone mentioned that ASO is considering launching a breakaway league. I really hope this is the case. The UCI has been shown to be incompetent with its approach to doping and the introduction of the pro-tour.0 -
schlepcycling wrote:The BBC website are also reporting that the Cofidis team have withdrawn from the Tour.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/6916422.stm
Bad move.
Will be viewed as an admission of complicity in some peoples eyes.
Poor old Brad eh ?0 -
Brads going to be furious. I bet they have to keep a lid on him when he meets up with Moreni. I can see him going off his nut at him.0
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"Al. wrote:The use of DNA to monitor riders should be mandatory and all those riders who object and talk about their rights should be told in no uncertain terms that if they don't sign up then they don't ride in the peloton unlike the present situation where the tail is most definitely wagging the dog!
What is this magic monitoring you can do with DNA you speak of?
I cannot wait to read a Wiggins statement about what happened today.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
"The Italian was questioned by police and Cofidis team manager Eric Boyer told Reuters: "He accepted his wrongdoing and did not ask for a B-sample."
Thats refreshing though.0 -
Yeah wiggo is going to kick off big style!!0
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_s ... 916422.stm
Vino took so much different blood he's actually changed from a Kazakh to a Ukrainian... shocking!0 -
Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0
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shazzz wrote:Despite the disappointment for Bradders, I'm glad that Confidis have been kicked out and that criminal proceedings seem to be likely. I think that the ASO should be aplauded for the zero tolerance approach they are taking - far more hard line than the UCI.
It is ASO's commercial product that is at risk here and they are taking the long term view - a bit (possibly a lot) of pain now in order to make it clear to all that they will not tolerate cheating.
It is inevitable that a few of the big name sponsors will pull out. Hopefully those who own and manage the teams now being found to have dopers on the books will not be able to find replacement sponsors. This will result in some of the smaller teams being promoted to the big league, and organisations like the ASO will be able to influence the way they develop and are managed, including a more proactive approach to dope testing. No doubt belts will have to be tightened and riders will take a pay cut, but the sport will not die. It will rise like a phoenix from the ashes!
Someone mentioned that ASO is considering launching a breakaway league. I really hope this is the case. The UCI has been shown to be incompetent with its approach to doping and the introduction of the pro-tour.
I dont support Cofidis leaving the Tour. They have riders, like Chavanel and Wiggins, whom I truly believe ride clean. Eradicate the cheats and come down hard on them, but when you punish men who have done no wrong then there is little point in continuing the race. I think people need to step back and calm down.0 -
hear hear0
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'...The Italian was questioned by police and Cofidis team manager Eric Boyer told Reuters: "He accepted his wrongdoing and did not ask for a B-sample."....' abit of a novelty and progress at least.
Don't think it's right that the whole team have to withdraw. Wiggins will be badly effected after his decent performance in the previous time trial.[/code]0 -
saisie wrote:shazzz wrote:I dont support Cofidis leaving the Tour. They have riders, like Chavanel and Wiggins, whom I truly believe ride clean. Eradicate the cheats and come down hard on them, but when you punish men who have done no wrong then there is little point in continuing the race. I think people need to step back and calm down.
Just because you "truely believe" something doesn't mean its true.
Cofidis were asked to leave and they did. I think it's fair and consistant. Might not be nice for some of the people on the team, but I think ASO being consistant is very important. You can't have one rule for one, another rule for another.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
I absolutely agree. I've been having an argument via sms with a friend tonight who is half French. He thinks it's a rum deal. I pointed out that it was good that the authorities were being consistent for once, he responded by saying it was going against one hundred years of history!iainf72 wrote:Just because you "truely believe" something doesn't mean its true.
Cofidis were asked to leave and they did. I think it's fair and consistant. Might not be nice for some of the people on the team, but I think ASO being consistant is very important. You can't have one rule for one, another rule for another. 0 -
Sorry I disagree, do not under-estimate the severity of the siuation. As angry as I am that Wiggo wont have a crack at the TT and get the Paris and finish, the ONLY thing that Cofidis can od is to leave. Doping is not just a riders problem; the teams have to start taking some responsibility for their riders. Quite frankly after this year you'd have to be a committed fan of the sport in the marketing dept of some of the larger sponsors to see the point in continuing. The positive signs are that at least an increasing number of riders are speaking out, and slowly the culture will change as is it has over drink driving for example. The more the cheating riders and teams are ostracized, the quicker the change will happen.0
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Steve - I think both Iain and I agree with you.
Our point was that it's a (refreshing) change to see some consistency in decision making. ASO have quite often been chauvinistic in that previously.0 -
I agree totally with kicking whole teams of the tour..... it might finally change the law of silence if mass numbers of the peleton are at risk of unemployment / loss of earnings because of dopers...... hopefully this will, eventually, lead to a shift in culture.
In the past where the individual was banned the rest of the team didn't care as long as they weren't caught. This new route of banning teams may result in increased peer pressure to move away from doping!0 -
Eric Boyer, Team Manager, (Cofidis):
"I feel sick. I hope that Vinokourov won't be a coward and deny everything. He said that he worked with Ferrari just for training plans. He always told us what a brave guy he is, that he is stronger than the pain, that the French ride behind everyone else because they are lazier. Now we see that he is a big bastard. These practices discredit all of cycling again."
:oops:0 -
iainf72 wrote:saisie wrote:shazzz wrote:I dont support Cofidis leaving the Tour. They have riders, like Chavanel and Wiggins, whom I truly believe ride clean. Eradicate the cheats and come down hard on them, but when you punish men who have done no wrong then there is little point in continuing the race. I think people need to step back and calm down.
Just because you "truely believe" something doesn't mean its true.
Cofidis were asked to leave and they did. I think it's fair and consistant. Might not be nice for some of the people on the team, but I think ASO being consistant is very important. You can't have one rule for one, another rule for another.
I thought they left of their own volition?0 -
"iainf72 wrote:saisie wrote:shazzz wrote:I people need to step back and calm down.
"Just because you "truely believe" something doesn't mean its true".
Obviously! Its an opinion, no more.
"Cofidis were asked to leave and they did. I think it's fair and consistant. Might not be nice for some of the people on the team, but I think ASO being consistant is very important. You can't have one rule for one, another rule for another.
Its consistant, but when you start punishing guys that haven't necessarily done anything wrong you are setting a dangerous precedent.0 -
Its consistant, but when you start punishing guys that haven't necessarily done anything wrong you are setting a dangerous precedent.
not at all - I see this as the only truly effective way of eradicating the problem - a rider now doesn't have to just consider his own future but that of all his colleagues when he decides to cheat. We have seen that they care little about the damage they do to the "sport's" reputation - ruining your room mates career may bring things a bit closer to home. It also ensures that every rider has a clear vested interest in being a whistleblower and not turning a blind eye to dodgy practice.0 -
I feel really bad for Bradley but they asked Astana to leave so it's only fair they do the same. It's very harsh on the clean guys who have busted their asses the past two weeks but maybe doing that will rile them up enough to really go off on anyone in their team in the future suspected of doping.0
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andyp wrote:Steve - I think both Iain and I agree with you.
Our point was that it's a (refreshing) change to see some consistency in decision making. ASO have quite often been chauvinistic in that previously.
Sorry was responding to saisie's post about giving cofidis a break. Yes I agree I agree with you
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I agree with several others here - it's harsh, it's hard, it might be unfair. BUT, it's the only way to drive the message home and change the culture amongst the riders and the team sponsors - one dopes all out, sponors lose out. Unless this approach is taken it's too easy to pass it off as 'one bad apple'. There are too many bad apples for this to hold water. I feel gutted for Wiggins, it makes me angry that all his effort, training, dedication, suffering goes to waste. But it isn't my fault. It isn't Brad's fault. It's the fault of an individual rider taking risks with everyone else's jobs, careers, prize money.0
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proto wrote:Eric Boyer, Team Manager, (Cofidis):
"I feel sick. I hope that Vinokourov won't be a coward and deny everything. He said that he worked with Ferrari just for training plans. He always told us what a brave guy he is, that he is stronger than the pain, that the French ride behind everyone else because they are lazier. Now we see that he is a big bastard. These practices discredit all of cycling again."
:oops:
Don't forget that Boyer was agent for that bastion of purity, Virenque and also rode with Polti in the mid 90's.'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'0 -
For the first time in recent memory I can wholeheartedly say that I support ASO, for a start now they are showing some consistency in their decisions. Yes our sport is nearly on its Knees, and lots of riders I have respect for have been affected, but if its the only way to signal that we won't accept doping by making entire teams persona non grata then its surely the way to go. Especially while the UCI appear to have their heads in the sand, ASO as the owners of the biggest, most high profile and highest revenue events must emerge as the leaders in any attempted cultural shift. If they don't support it we may as well all give up now.0
