Good old Titanium! Strong as cardboard!
Comments
-
MD, maybe you should work for Hewlett Packard. They could learn a thing or two about that.0
-
Well Having just Bought my New Litespeed Ultimate Frame this May and fitted it with Campag Chorus group i am a bit shocked to see the pics of the cracks in the headtube of some of your frames posted...Having Bought Colnago`s since my teens i decided to treat myself to what i thought was the Best Material used for bikes...i thought Titanuim was BOMB proof...tho i am happy with my bike and the ride feels great it does make you wonder is there any materials out there used in frame manufacture thats not got flaws in them from time to time...i have used Both Steel and aluminium and broke frames 2 of which were Colnago`s....i Could Have went for a Colnago C50 Carbon..but you cant go on thinking what if this breaks or that..if you felt like that you would never buy a Frame..hope you guys get your frames fixed or get a new one...keep us posted.0
-
Hi Kellys Heroes - what model year is your Ultimate
it seems to be the 2005 model year litespeeds that came with the integrated type headtube that are causing all the concern
dont seem to be many 'normal' non-integrated headtube issues with litespeed ?
as you say you pay a lot of money for a litespeed frame, expecting that you are getting some fine engineering and manufacturing - seems to be some varying expectations from manufacturers by all of us :?
hope your frame is OK - it took 14 months for mine to show first signs of cracking
happy riding - UZ0 -
Ah, glad to see this thread resurface...
Having returned my Litespeed Tuscany to Litespeed UK in August for repair / replacement, I have still heard nothing back from them at this time.
Quite frankly, it's got tot he point that I don't care anymore.0 -
grimpeur - don't give up on this one
it was your original post with pics that prompted me to go and check my own frame
I returned my frame via the supplying dealer on the 9th August, and have only just got it back.
I have had to chase several key people at American Bicycle Group (litespeeds UK importer) to get this progressed - if you want some names to contact then PM me
like you, I have really lost faith in this company - but you should at least get them working to get you your frame back ( got to admit the repaired frame sent back does look as good as new, although as posted in my previous message, it does look a bit different)
good luck - UZ0 -
Hi Uncle Zaskar......my Litespeed Ultimate was last years model with orange and black decals same as vortex but they built it this year if you know what i mean...as i like a traditional looking frame rather than the compact....mine is the Non- integrated head tube....must say i dealt with BIkelab in poole and their service was very good..however one of the last times i spoke to the owner they said they had a bit of a fall out with LITESPEED and now only do Lynskey frames....it seems to be a split in the ranks...a bit like LOOK and the other guy left to start making TIME pedals....touch wood no problem as yet but like many others on here will be checking on the frame......it worries me that American Bicycle group is not playing ball and are difficult to deal with.....you would think they might say to themselves hang on there are to many people with litespeeds having cracks in various places.0
-
the point of Ti is that for its strength it is much lighter than steel, however if used wrongly it will fail, just like aluminium and steel.My signature was stolen by a moose
that will be all
trying to get GT James banned since tuesday0 -
I have a 2006 Litespeed Tuscany and it is the best bike I have ever owned and ridden. Qiick, responsive, comfortable, easy to clean - I have ridden it 2,500 wonderful miles0
-
[quote="Random Vince"]the point of Ti is that for its strength it is much lighter than steel, however if used wrongly it will fail, just like aluminium and steel.[/quote]
Used wrongly? You mean in the use of integrated headtubes for instance? Does this mean no manufacturer should build their headtubes this way for fear of cracking? Interesting.0 -
giant mancp wrote:Used wrongly? You mean in the use of integrated headtubes for instance? Does this mean no manufacturer should build their headtubes this way for fear of cracking? Interesting.
I took it to mean that Litespeeds design of the head tube was not very good when they went to integrated headsets. If done properly then there won't be any problems.0 -
yes and I agree with you. Have to say this whole integrated headtube thing has put me off to such an extent that when purchasing my ti frame soon, I won't choose one with an integrated headtube.0
-
This has been a bloody long thread , and I confess to having skipped the middle pages here ( ..what have I missed ? ) .
My old Raleigh SP Ti. frame sheared completely on the downtube whilst whizzing down a mountain in the Brecons this past spring , which resulted in me hunting down a brand new 2006 Litespeed Ultimate from off ebay. A good deal and am very pleased with it - up to now - though I wouldn't know where I stand re. warranty : nowhere most likely . Nonetheless it's titanium , and the welds look to be impeccable . It looks like it'll last forever . My thoughts on carbon composites are legion but I'll stick to the point here .
Whatever , interest piqued by the header to this thread , ( and the great pic's ) my immediate thoughts were along the lines of " ..ah ! integrated headset . Hmmmn ? "
It may have been mentioned in one of the middle posts that I haven't bothered to read as yet but you may be interested to read what Chris King has to say about integrated headsets from off his website here : http://www.chrisking.com/tech/int_heads ... ain_1.html
...and also the fact that Litespeed don't do integrated h'sets anymore ( I think ? ) .
Good luck with the warranty though .
Bruce"Lick My Decals Off, Baby"0 -
Well yes one look at all the ti bikes on the Litespeed web site and there's no sight of an integrated headtube anywhere. Some lessons learned there then!0
-
Indeed !! Over and above my innate sceptism I'd be wary of any integral / integrated headset system no matter how ' cool ' looking within any material . Also , I'd be be very dubious about any carbon composite frame as I know they can't take a knock . ( ..a supposition based on two sets of forks catastrophically shattering on me ( me rear-ending a car - and another being sideswiped by a car - where any other material I know of would've bent - if at all ) . No matter , contrarily , I still use carbon forks , I think they're great - and expendable .
Aside from Chris King's sagacity he makes the best headsets I've ever come across . And , if a cheapskate like me , there's no need to pay through the nose for one either , mine - a 1"1/8th - came from a chap in H.K. for £65 and he still advertises the stuff on ebay . Recommended .
Bruce"Lick My Decals Off, Baby"0 -
Chris King keeps going on about integrated hedsets being a flawed design, but if they have ever caused problems I have never heard of a case. The OP's frame broke because of a poor frame design, not because of the type of headset it used.
If integrated headsets caused problems they would be well documented by now as millions of frames with these fitted must have been sold worldwide.0 -
Smokin Joe - I think Chris King's point is that if you want a frame to last for more than a few years then you're taking a risk if you buy one with an integrated headset. The reasoning being that a poorly adjusted one may cause damage to the machined bearing races that can only be fixed by fitting a new headtube. Which would make most bikes uneconomical to repair.
I think it's related to a wider issue - should bikes be part of the disposable society we live in now? If you buy titanium then I think your purchasing decision suggests that you don't subscribe to this view.0 -
A frame damaged because of a poorly adjusted headset would come under the title of "Operator Fault" rather than a design flaw. Just as you cannot blame caliper brake design for your wrecked bike because you did not adjust them properly.0
-
True. But operator fault with a non-integrated headset is a lot cheaper to fix.
You pay your money and you take your choice.0 -
It's also that fact that the face of the headtube is in contact with the bearing. Therfore damage to the bearing or wear also wears out the headtube...which is hard to replace, unlike pressing in some new headset cups.
Why did the bike industry do it? Faster assembly, fewer components, less cost. The same as moving to Aluminium: softer metal, faster and cheaper to machine.
Clearly Litespeed didn't do their stress calculations correctly - I agree that this is only partly to do with integrated headsets, and fully to do with poor design. Add in poor manufacture and quality control (that strange brown patch in the weld) and I suspect that they have lost the plot. There again I think that Litespeed cheapened their brand by making Alu bikes - a daft decision IMO.
I have a 1996 Litespeed Catalyst which is flawless and a joy to ride."It must be true, I saw it on the Internet!"0 -
Two points.
1) I am not convinced it's a design fault: it may be a welding issue (i.e. impurities). In addition, the weld on the OP's head tube looked a bit variable, which may have created stress raisers and thus accelerated fatigue.
2) Regarding Chris King's view of integrated headsets, I tend to agree with him. Note, however, that he is okay with zero stack integrated headsets, as there is a replaceable seating pressed into the head tube. On that point, all ABG bikes with integrated headtubes come with a replaceable bearing seating, which is good as it removes concerns about the headset wearing out the frame. Having said that, I do wonder how long it would take ABG to replace it. Judging by my efforts to correspond with Litespeed, I'd be as fast dealing with the Scarlet Pimpernell. :x0 -
Here is an update...
After six months of no response from Litespeed UK my bike shop got in touch. In what can only be described as staggering incompetence they had no record of the frame or the returns number they had issued. Only thanks to the records of my LBS was I able to get this number and then get Litespeed to acknowledge the frame had been returned. Better news was still to come though when after a week of no communication, Litespeed informed me that they didn't know where the frame was and that they had no record of it being returned to the U.S. Strangely enough though it was returned to them in a box with another frame to be repaired, that one was recorded as delivered, mine was not. Things are still to be resolved but hopefully I will be getting a new frame, a frame which I will immediately sell.
Litespeed is a company I will never do business with again.0 -
Bloody right there grimpeur! Don't blame you at all. I would be exactly the same.
No wonder they are now no longer producing frames with integrated headsets, the lastest C+ tests an Icon with conventional headset.
Dear oh dear, an absolute shambles and disgusting customer service!! A lesson learnt I feet.0 -
I can sympathise with the going on in this thread regarding cracked TI frames and customer service.
To cut a long story short I ended up with 2 frames from the custom TI frame builder Setavento, returned one of them (after I got around to building it!!) as the rear wheel would not fit. And have just had to return the 2nd frame as it cracked around the BB area.
When I went to drop off the frame to a LBS in Glasgow (Setavento's go between for deliveries and returns from the far east) I noticed that my first frame was hanging in the shop along with a few more frames, I had returned the frame about 8 weeks earlier. The LBS owner was still waiting on James Lawrence (Setavento owner) to get in touch and was loosing patience as several Setavent customers were now phoning him asking what was going on with their frame but obviously he can't help them.
With an internet company such as Setavento its so frustrating trying to get in touch with the owner to find out what is going on, I had a email a week ago saying that he has just got back in China and he will be in touch within 24-48hrs but guess what I'm still waiting.
For some reason I like TI frames (they are very easy to look after even in the winter) and bought a 2nd hand Litespeed Blade for TT'ing but now I'm a bit nervous having read this thread as it also has an integrated headset!!
Now looking for something new, still researching but with good customer service as I'm a bit pissed off with Setavento's customer service. Maybe the bike mag's should do some articles on customer service of the bikes that they do reviews on and give them some ratings!!0 -
According to their website, Setavento are now closed.0
-
http://www.setavento.com/
31 December 2007
Happy New Year > We wish all of our past customers an enjoyable New Year getting many miles in on their custom titanium Setavento frames.
Setavento is now closed. After three years delivering all types of custom titanium bicycle frames we are no longer accepting orders for new frames. We would like to thank all of our customers for their support, and to congratulate Team Tor 2000 for all they achieved during 2006-2007.
There will be a Sale of Clearance frames which is planned for sometime in February or March '08. When the Sale is ready we will post more information here.
Warranty, service, and support enquiries should be directed via our Contact Us page.
It was a pleasure to deal with cyclists from all over the world. We look forward to meeting more of you at races, cyclo-sportif events, and cycle shows in a personal capacity in the future.
The Team at Setavento.0 -
Their 'Clearance' frames would have to be going for pennies before you could persuade me to handover any cash to this lot.0
-
Talk about being a bit angry!!!
What to do now, two busted frames and £1300 out of pocket and probably no chance of getting them repaired or refunded and one of the frames I could not even get it on the road!!
Ahhh......... :x :x :x :x :x :x
Just after I posted this got the following email from James:
Hi Barry,
We've cleared the backlog of frames that was causing the hold up. I have spoken to Carl today and your frames will ship to the builder in China on Thursday or Friday. I am due to speak to him tomorrow to ensure they are packed immediately.
Once the frames are repaired or replaced (I suspect the latter) they will be shipped to our office in Beijing for onward despatch. My attention is firmly on getting them processed as quickly as possible. Arthur Zeckau in Beijing will be in touch directly when the frames are ready. I will keep an eye on their progress to catch delays should they occur.
I apologise once again that your frames are out of action. We will do all we can to get them back to you in working order as soon as possible.
Kind regards,
James
James Laurence
Founder & Chief Frame Designer
Setavento LLC
My reply:
Hi James,
At last that sound like some positive news at last, I do hope this will happen.
Can you please ensure the following happens:
1) There is adequate clearance between the rear wheel and the seat tube, first frame no clearance, 2nd frame minimal clearance (if wheel has a high spot it rubs on the seat tube).
2) Ensure that the seat tube will take a 27.2 seat post as I had real trouble clamping up the seat post and had to change to a 27.4 which are very difficult to find
If it does happen (the frames get replaced) where will it leave me and all your Setavento customers regards future warranty now that you have closed the company, have just seen the closure notice on your web-site?
Hope this happens....
Barry0 -
grimpeur wrote:Here is an update...
....Litespeed is a company I will never do business with again.
grimpeur
Sorry to hear about your continued problems with Litespeed. Having dealt with them recently on another warranty issue (forks and wheelset, both of which are absolutely shyte), I can only agree with your opinion of them.
After contacting Litespeed, I got passed from ABG employee to ABG employee like a game of pass the parcel. If I hadn't chased and chased them, I don't think they would even have bothered answering. Very poor service indeed.
Like you, I won't ever buy anything from ABG ever again.0
