Good old Titanium! Strong as cardboard!
Comments
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Nine Stone Cowboy wrote:Titamium is fine as a frame material - Litespeeds are shite though.
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As a Litespeed owner, I'd be interested to hear why you think that. Have you had similar problems to Grimpeur?0 -
Opinions about Litespeed do seem to be somewhat polarised.
What do I ride? Now that's an Enigma!0 -
I would tend to sit on the Shitespeed side of the fence myself.0
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grimpeur wrote:I would tend to sit on the Shitespeed side of the fence myself.
Understandable given your experience, I suppose. I still like my frame, but I don't like the wheels, the forks and the seatpost. Just glad I didn't spend anything like the RRP (I got it in a sale, brand new from an authorised dealer).
If you sell your replacement frame on eBay, be sure and forward me the link. I look forward to your full and honest item description!
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just been told that it looks like my frame will be repaired at the factory - not replaced
they are talking about cutting off old headtube and welding new headtube to bike. Im worried that this will have some detrimental effect to the bike sizing, as surely they will have to cut the old tubes back to get a good weld area ?
it seems that the 'lifetime warranty' doesn't mean that you get a replacement frame, they send the bike back to the factory and repair if possible
already been 2 weeks without bike, now seems another 6-8 weeks are likely
not a happy bunny at the mo....
what are your thoughts ?
regards - UZ0 -
Get it fixed, flog it, then buy a frame from a material that frame builders actually understand and can weld properly like aluminium or steel.0
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Like steel, titanium is a very "repairable" material, though without using a lot more metal in the repair I doubt it will be as strong as it should have originally been.
I remember the craze in the early 90's amongst MTBers trying to get their bikes lighter and lighter until everything started breaking and common sense kicked in. I'll never forget picking carbon splinters out of my friends throat after his brand new ultra lightweight handlebar snapped on the first outing.
Sounds like the roadie scene is lagging behind a little.
Wheelies ARE cool.
Zaskar X0 -
eh wrote:Get it fixed, flog it, then buy a frame from a material that frame builders actually understand and can weld properly like aluminium or steel.
Or, buy a bike made out of carbon, which can't be fixed - so when that breaks the manufacturers have to give you a brand new one! Yay!0 -
Don't forget that the original litespeeds (like the one I have) were made by Lynskey. Who then sold the company in the late 1990's. Since then the problems. If you want a "REAL" litespeed then you have to buy a Lynskey frame (http://lynskeyperformance.com) and not a litespeed frame.0
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I'm across the pond from you actually living not but 10 minutes from Litespeed. One of my buddies who lives about 2 hours from here had an 04 Vortex break in a similar fashion. It took him over 2 months to get his back. Litespeed will only do something if you have proof of original ownership and then they will haggle you over it. Lots of these frames are breaking. I think the wait is because there is such a line of frames to fix. Just to let you know, Litespeed is in the shitter. They are laying people off like crazy. Don't expect them to be around for too much longer, at least not under the current owners.0
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I am an owner of a 2003 Litespeed Vortex and this thread has completley shocked me. I've always presumed titanium was a good investment but now...
I must admit the welding on my frame looks to be lot tidier than the pictures posted above but I've still lost confidence.
Also the fact that Uncle zascar will not get a replacement frame is unacceptable. If you had crashed the bike then repair would be justifiable but for a serioulsy expensive bike to fail in this manner is completely unacceptable. You should demand a new frame. Also, my previous dealings with UK litespeed have been bad. I think you should go right to the top and email the head of Litespeed USA pictures of the failed frame. They should have no question in replacing the frame. It's just good business sense.
I'm only ever going to buy carbon now on. It would be good if there are any titanium owners who are reading this thread to stick up for the material. I would be particularly intersted if there are any happy liespeed owners out there??!!0 -
Sure I'm happy with my litespeed. But that is because its an old original Lynskey litespeed - not one of these new crapy things. I have done everything possible with it and its fine. Also had a mtb once. Tried as hard as I could to destroy it - but alas - couldn't. So like I said buy a Lynskey or a Tommasini or DeRosa and so on but not a modern Litespeed.0
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The one thing that struck me about the site of the original Litespeed fracture was that it would not result in an immediate catastrophic failure - the fork steerer tube would tend to hold things together for a bit - until you'd come to a reasonable controlled stop, anyway. Had it broken behind the head tube, it would have been a lot more worrying!0
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twilliam - it was seing the pictures that grimpeur put up that made me check my frame. The welding finish on all the joints seemed fine, very neat and tidy - but still it had cracked from the bottom of the downtube / headtube weld
I'm still shocked that it looks like i will have to accept the frame repair as the UK importer of Litespeed has said that they never issue a replacement frame as a repair is seen as covering their warranty - so much for the litespeed 'lifetime' warranty ! :x
As it stands at the moment, I cannot see me ever wanting to buy another litespeed again, as I feel completely let down by them, I am going to be without a bike for at least 3 months maybe more, and the bike i get back in my mind will be nothing more than a 'refurbishment' of my original frame.
many thanks for all your comments
i'll keep you posted on how this develops
regards - UZ0 -
My sympathies UZ for the hassle you are having! i had a nightmare just getting decals from litespeed UK they just sounded like complete amateurs who could not give a f**k it took about five weeks to eventually get them! I've 2 litespeeds a lynskey and a 2002 just after they got bought out, weld quality on both bikes looks very good, maybe the quality control has gone up the shi**er as they they seem to be banging them out for just about everyone these days!!!0
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I really feel angry at how Litespeed are treating you UZ. At least a replacement frame means you could sell it on reclaim some of the initial cost. It will be very diificult to sell a repaired frame.
Litespeed UK treated me with no respect when I had issues with a new frame I brought them.
Hope all it gets resolved and you move onto a better manufacturer.0 -
Have a look at the following thread on the WeightWeenies forum.
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/phpBB ... hp?t=340480 -
Hi everyone, just thought I'd update you all on the situation with my cracked Vortex. I e-mailed Litespeed UK and received a nice reply from someone in Customer Services who gave me the e-mail of her colleague who handles warranty issues. I explained I wasn't the original owner - which they appreciated - and they now have it for repair. Still going to cost approx £200 though.
i'll let you all know what it's like when I get it back.
Cheers0 -
Has anyone seen cracks like this in non intergrated h/tubes?0
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I think it's clear that all the failures mentioned so far on here are in the same place, indicating a design flaw rather than poor welding.
It would also explain why a) the integrated headtube has been junked across the entire range, and b) why dealers were flogging off Vortexs with integrated headsets for £1,100 when the retail is over twice that.
Personally, I have owned two Litespeeds, a 'Lynskey' '99 Classic and an '06 Siena, both of which have been well made and great to ride.
Touch wood.
To write the entire brand off as 'sh*te' seems a bit much.
I'm happy with mine and I know plenty of other people, including a well known dealer and north west-based wheelbuilder, who are equally pleased with theirs...0 -
Mines a 2006 Tuscany with the non intergrated headtube. So hopefully I should be ok 0
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Skon wrote:Hi everyone, just thought I'd update you all on the situation with my cracked Vortex. I e-mailed Litespeed UK and received a nice reply from someone in Customer Services who gave me the e-mail of her colleague who handles warranty issues. I explained I wasn't the original owner - which they appreciated - and they now have it for repair. Still going to cost approx £200 though.
i'll let you all know what it's like when I get it back.
Cheers
Hi All,
just a wee update about the above. I've since got the frame back. They have put a new head tube in (non-integrated), rebrushed it and put new decals on. They also supplied new titanium bottle bolts and a seat collar. Cost £249 incl VAT.
The frame looks as good as new, so I think I'll keep it. I need a new headset though, but I think the old forks (Reynold Ouzo Pro Integrated) will still fit a non-integrated set-up.
The guy at Litespeed UK was very nice and handled the thing well. Would've been nice to have had it for free though, given that it was a design fault!
Cheers
Skon0 -
£247!!!
I thought the frame was under warrany, surely you could have isisted on a repair or replacement at their expense?0 -
SJ - unfortunately for me the warranty is limited to the original owner. I bought the frame 2nd hand.
Cheers
Skon0 -
Skon - glad to hear the problem has been sorted. It's a shame you had to foot the bill for Litespeed to rectify the original design flaw though.0
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What shit customer service and even worse PR.
Imagine you were considering buying a titanium bike and whilst doing your research you read a thread like this. I reckon 99% of people would cross Litespeed off their list.0 -
i just have0
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HarryB wrote:What shoot customer service and even worse PR.
Imagine you were considering buying a titanium bike and whilst doing your research you read a thread like this. I reckon 99% of people would cross Litespeed off their list.
yes indeed! Same here I'm hearing 'Litespeed' and 'failure' far too often to include in my 'ti want' list.0 -
just a quick update from me as well
frame went back to the dealer in the 3rd week of August (it then took them 4 bloody weeks to get it to UK distributor of litespeed !)
I tried arguing the case with Litespeed UK that I would not be happy having the head tube replaced on a frame that cost me over £2k, and that I thought that the Litespeed warranty would cove a replacement frame of equal value - but No, Litespeed ALWAYS go for the repair option first I was told, so frame has now gone back to the factory in USA
so far no news of when it will be back, but estimates range from 6 weeks to 3 months !
apparently when I get it back it will be with non-integrated head tube, repolished and with new decals, and be as good as new ( so it bloody well should be having spent that amount of money on their products) :evil:
I must admit that this incident has rather taken the shine off Litespeed bikes for me - I'd always had this vision of fantastic bikes and fantastic customer service, but maybe this was just me expecting to much ?. I was also told that Litespeed do not have a generic problem with integrated headset frames, but the more talking to people I have done, there does seem to be a lot of riders with this problem on their frames.
all I will add is to anybody looking at titanium frames, check what the manufacturers policy is should your frame have a crack/split due to manufacturing or design defect
regards - UZ :?0 -
carlstone wrote:To my eye the crack looks to have emanated from the heat affected zone in the weld. This is the area at the edge of the weld. This is where the tube metal has its structure changed by the heat in the welding process and makes it more brittle. This area of metal is actually not as strong as the weld itself. The design process should factor out this problem, but in this case obvously not.
Also the third picture shows a brown spot on the weld. Is this dirt or actually in the weld itself? If so it points to an impurity included in the weld and this would certainly weaken the joint in that area.
The tig welding looks OK but not fantastic, especially when as you say it is a £2000 frame.
My first thoughts too. I also couldn't help noticing that the tube is extremly thin at the point of fracture presumably where the tube has been deformed around the built in bottom bearing. It would appear to be a pretty basic design fault to me .Far to much weakening at a critical stress point. I would be inclined to get an engineers report and commence an online small claims court action0
