Portsmouth = 1st city with a blanket 20mph limit

TheJollyJimLad · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

What is the need to take the IAM test? Many of us are secure enough in our abilities not to need to.

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

So presumably you understand contact points, vantage points, planning ahead, positioning, braking procedure for corners, gearchange etiquette, when not to use indicators.....the list goes on?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Not to mention trolling on cycling web forums..

How many boards would the Mongols hoard if the Mongol hordes got bored?

Mister Paul · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

What is the need to take the IAM test? Many of us are secure enough in our abilities not to need to.

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

So presumably you understand contact points, vantage points, planning ahead, positioning, braking procedure for corners, gearchange etiquette, when not to use indicators.....the list goes on?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You haven't answered the question. So I'll make it easy and repeat it.

What is the need to take the IAM test?

You ought to get out on your bike more cretin. You'll learn loads more.

You seem to be missing the point that the IAM test is nothing but a piece of paper confirming that you are at a certain standard, as dictated by one group. It says nothing about the driving standards of those who you think you have the advantage over.
__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

Cretin · June 2007

To answer your question first I must understand what your current driving skills are. So to paraphrase, answer the question.

rothbook · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> To answer your question first I must understand what your current driving skills are. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Stop being a bell end cretin, you were asked ahy you need extra driving tuition and why you lied about speeding during your test with the approval of your examiner. You've soent twelve pages avoiding telling us why you made up such a silly transparent lie.

Cunobelin · June 2007

I am not making claims about my skills so this is really not relevant, but if it removes yet another one of the bolsters you are usingto avoid the answer to this question.

My licence is clean since the first provisional issue in 1975. I have no points, have had no accidents, and two insurance claims.
One was a speeding motorist who was unable to stop at a junction and took the back out of the car, and the second someone who took out the front right wing when the car was left in a car park.

Since then I have experience on anumber of different vehicle types.

In addition to the varous courses, tests and assessments that I have taken and I have also been an instructor and examiner at HGV level including HAZMAT.

Now....
Are you going to answer the challenge

He that buys land buys many stones.
He that buys flesh buys many bones.
He that buys eggs buys many shells,
But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.
(Unattributed Trad.)

Mister Paul · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

To answer your question first I must understand what your current driving skills are. So to paraphrase, answer the question.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No you don't. I'm not comparing me with you. You are. Which suggests an answer to the question which you are avoiding.

Please explain why taking a test and getting a piece of paper from the IAM makes you any better than a driver with the same skills and no piece of paper.

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

Cretin · June 2007

Please explain how any other driver who hasn't taken the course and sat the test would have the same skills in the first place.

Mister Paul · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

Please explain how any other driver who hasn't taken the course and sat the test would have the same skills in the first place.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Oh dear. Deary me.

You aren't that stupid. You can't be.

Please answer the question put to you. Don't ask another. Just answer the question.

And while you're at it, have a think about the difference between learning, and passing a test.

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

Cretin · June 2007

Which drivers would have the same skills, and how would they attain them? Its your question, I'm just seeking clarification. Tell me how they would attain these skills, and tell me where they are.

Do you have these skills? I've asked you, and you ignored the question.

So come on Mister Paul, as you're so fond of saying, "answer the question".

rothbook · June 2007

Paul, Jaded, me and others asked you the question first cretin.

It's clear you are refusing to answer because you lied.

Cretin · June 2007

http://www2.b3ta.com/host/creative/1711 ... mdedum.jpg

Mister Paul · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

Which drivers would have the same skills, and how would they attain them? Its your question, I'm just seeking clarification. Tell me how they would attain these skills, and tell me where they are.

Do you have these skills? I've asked you, and you ignored the question.

So come on Mister Paul, as you're so fond of saying, "answer the question".
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You are flailing a fair bit now aren't you?

I asked you, several times, and merely out of interest, what is the need to take the IAM test?

Now, the first point. You seem to be getting confused about the difference between undertaking training and passing an exam. How is the person who has passed the IAM exam any better than the person who has been through the IAM training and is at the same standard, but has not yet taken the exam? What difference does the piece of paper make to their abilities?

The second point. Why does one need to take the IAM test to be a competent, safe driver?

The third point. Is the IAM the exclusive path to improving driving skills?

You seem to be using this whole IAM business to put yourself above others when discussing these issues. I suggest that your display of poor consideration towards other road users and those in the vicinity, your atttitude of advocating responsibility for safety to other road users rather than yourself and your inability to consider all of the issues around road safety (just three examples, all demonstrated quite clearly by your postings over the past couple of weeks) shows that you give yourself a standing which you don't deserve, despite your piece of paper. And in fact this position which you have decided to give yourself, without knowing or experiencing anyone else's road skills is a pretty risky place to be. So in your case your IAM qualification, while intending to improve your skills, has also brought with it some measure of the opposite effect.

I asked you a question about the need to take the IAM test. Instead of answering, you ask me for evidence of my driving skills, and try to pass that of as clarification of my question. How strange. When you applied to uni for your IT training (and we must assume that you have a degree in this otherwise, using your reasoning, you're rubbish at IT), did you have to prove that you already had the skills which they were going to spend the next three years teaching you?

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

Cretin · June 2007

I'm not getting confused at all. Ask Cunobelin, I've told him repeatedly how the test means nothing to me. Its all there, just read it. You don't even have to go back many pages.

As for your second point, you don't need the IAM course to be a competant safe driver. But it does help you become a more competant and safer driver. But apparently you don't want to be a safer driver Mister Paul. Or do you?

And no the IAM isn't the exclusive path to improving driving skills. But it is an important one, and recognised by many as being one of the best. Which is why I took it.

Display of poor consideration? I have plenty of consideration thanks. But you'll happily ignore all the good things I say about driving and focus on what you see are the bad things - and they're not really bad things at all, theres only the one you don't like - and thats my refusal to accept the theory that speed limits are a good thing. You see that as 'cretin must therefore be always breaking the speed limit which means hes a very bad driver', which is really very narrow minded.

And why should I be responsible for other people's safety? I drive safely and with full consideration for everyone else - but if some berk decides they're going to leave things to lady luck and not be responsible for their life, well I'm hardly to blame for that am I, despite slamming on the brakes or taking avoiding action. You've just as much as admitted a belief in 'the motorist is always wrong'. Its a shame the statistics you so often quote from don't always agree with you on that.

As for your laughable final paragraph, you ask me why anyone would need to take such measures (presumably yourself), but then you don't actually want to discuss what your driving skills actually are - hence your inability to answer simple questions like 'what is the contact point?'.

And I have no IT training whatsoever. I don't work in IT, why are you inventing such rubbish?

rothbook · June 2007

's obvious cretin lacks the courage to give a straight answer Paul, leave him be.

Mister Paul · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

I'm not getting confused at all. Ask Cunobelin, I've told him repeatedly how the test means nothing to me. Its all there, just read it. You don't even have to go back many pages.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
That's more like it. You're starting to answer the question now. Well done.

The question which, BTW, came out of your curious comment about Cunobelin refusing to take the IAM test. As far as I'm aware it's not compulsory. Or necessary.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

As for your second point, you don't need the IAM course to be a competant safe driver. But it does help you become a more competant and safer driver.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
That's getting there. Well done again. But it isn't the exclusive way to become a more competent and safe driver. Which your posts infer. For someone to whom the IAM test means nothing, you build a lot of your position on it.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

But apparently you don't want to be a safer driver Mister Paul. Or do you?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Apparently? That's a curious assumption. Do you make it from the evidence, or do you just think that putting me beneath you with a sentence means that the rest of what you say has more merit?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

And no the IAM isn't the exclusive path to improving driving skills. But it is an important one, and recognised by many as being one of the best. Which is why I took it.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hurrah!!
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

Display of poor consideration? I have plenty of consideration thanks. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Your displayed attitude to motorway driving, and your thoughts on 20mph limits say otherwise.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

But you'll happily ignore all the good things I say about driving and focus on what you see are the bad things - and they're not really bad things at all, theres only the one you don't like - and thats my refusal to accept the theory that speed limits are a good thing. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Even though in your posts discussing motorway driving you gave a perfect reason why there is a need for limits. I bet you regret that post don't you? Are you going to pretend that it isn't there? Or are you going to ignore this bit (again) in your next response?
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

You see that as 'cretin must therefore be always breaking the speed limit which means hes a very bad driver', which is really very narrow minded.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
That's an assumed position that you've given me, and one which just isn't there.

Thruthfully cretin, what shows you up as a bad driver is the fact that, skills and knowledge aside, we all know that there is no need to break the speed limit. But you still want to and continue to do so. That shows up a selfishness and, however small, an inconsideration and increased risk.

Even Daddy Smith himself can only come up with his very convaluted argument that speed cameras kill people as justification for needing to speed. And any idiot can see the foolishness in that.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

And why should I be responsible for other people's safety? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Do we take that as another telling statement? When discussing a BMW driver barrelling up the outside lane out of nowhere, you dare not put any responsibility onto the speeding driver, but instead attack the sensible driver who is following correct procedure.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

You've just as much as admitted a belief in 'the motorist is always wrong'.

Its a shame the statistics you so often quote from don't always agree with you on that.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

1)I very rarely quote statistics. Are you confusing me with someone else, or just creating another position to put me in which you can then attack?

2)This is one of the funny SS quirks. We're all motorists cretin. Some of us have far more driving knowledge and experience than you do. Speed apologists talk as if they aren't just the motoring majority, but in fact the motoring exclusive. You're not. You're in the minority.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

As for your laughable final paragraph, you ask me why anyone would need to take such measures (presumably yourself), but then you don't actually want to discuss what your driving skills actually are - hence your inability to answer simple questions like 'what is the contact point?'.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Note you didn't answer the questions again.

You know cretin that the only way you can judge my driving skills properly is to observe them. Which is why, despite your denial, you keep hanging on to your IAM certificate joker. And you think that attacking my driving, which you know nothing about, in some way answers my 'why do you need to take the IAM exam' question. It doesn't.

You can come out with me if you like. You don't live far from me.

No-one has asked me what a contact point is.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

And I have no IT training whatsoever. I don't work in IT, why are you inventing such rubbish?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hmmmmm <rubs chin>

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

Cretin · June 2007

What a load of spurious waffle. You've had every question answered and more, but you just ignore it hoping people would forget. Leave it for a few pages, and you'll be asking me again. Its so predictable I can barely type with the laughing fits you're causing me.

Hilarious how you think that blithely pulling into the path of approaching motorway vehicles is safe and justifiable because one is under the speed limit. Thats just so brilliantly funny I can barely type.

I asked you what a contact point is. Its on page 66, last post. While you're at it, why don't you tell me the correct braking and gearchange procedure for navigating a left-hand junction, including the correct use of indicators, and where one's attention should be focussed while turning on that junction. Or you could tell me the correct procedure for a safe overtake. Or you could just tell me where your wheels would be pointing while waiting in the road at a right turn junction. What about how to hold the steering wheel while changing gear on a roundabout? Come on Mister Paul, don't be shy. You don't need any training, so you should know all this, and you should also know how to anticipate junctions on country lanes before you can actually see them, what visual cues give their location away.

It should be really easy for a man of your abilities.

So I work in IT and live near you? Prove it. Or just admit that you're making things up.

Mister Paul · June 2007

Every question answered? That's timely you making that false claim, because I've been wondering when you were going to respond the following, which I asked you on another thread, which co-incidentally is on the subject of advocating responsibility-

You stated the opinion that if two cars are on the motorway, one behind the other, it is the responsibility of the driver in front to make sure that there is sufficient space in front of him for both vehicles to stop safely.

I asked you to expand on this statement, as to the un-IAMed person it seems to make little sense. You haven't.

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

Cretin · June 2007

No I did not. What I said is that if you are being tailgated and there is no possibility of allowing the tailgater to pass by, then you should increase the stopping distance ahead of you to allow both vehicles will to be able to stop safely. Heres the post, just in case you forgot:

http://www.cyclingplus.co.uk/forum/topi ... hichpage=4

Thats very different to what you're suggesting, which is that I believe that tailgaters aren't responsible for their actions - a ridiculous fabrication. And I note that you didn't mention the very illegal thing he did, if indeed he was on a motorway. Are you and Cunobelin the same person, he likes to make things up to, and I've pointed it out and corrected him every time hes done it.

So theres another question answered, an answer you'll ignore when it suits you, and another answer you haven't given.

Mister Paul · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

What a load of spurious waffle. You've had every question answered and more, but you just ignore it hoping people would forget. Leave it for a few pages, and you'll be asking me again. Its so predictable I can barely type with the laughing fits you're causing me.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Question in previous post. Unanswered.
Question about just one disadvantage of 20mph limits. Unanswered.
Question about why there is no benefit in speed limits whilst your scheme for improving driving standards brings driving up to a level where limits are no longer needed. Unanswered.
Questions about the realistic achieveability of your driving standard nirvana, and how this is going to be measured. Unanswered.
Questions about how you consolidate the fact that the IAM don't condone speeding, yet you claim that you passed your IAM test despite breaking the speed limit. Unanswered.

Those are just the first few which spring to mind.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

Hilarious how you think that blithely pulling into the path of approaching motorway vehicles is safe and justifiable because one is under the speed limit. Thats just so brilliantly funny I can barely type.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
That's not what was posted. You have a poor, poor memory. Why do you respond to something which was never said? Do you think that people have your memory span?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

I asked you what a contact point is. Its on page 66, last post. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
No you didn't. You asked me if I understood them. You're getting confused again. No-one has asked me what a contact point is.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

While you're at it, why don't you tell me the correct braking and gearchange procedure for navigating a left-hand junction, <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
<cue cretin tactic> Correct as dictated by who? Correct how? Most efficient? Safest? Are you suggesting again that the IAM is the only correct way to go? You've already conceded that this isn't the case.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

including the correct use of indicators, and where one's attention should be focussed while turning on that junction. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Indicating -What are the surroundings? Where is the other traffic? What am I driving?

Attention?- what is going on around? What type of junction am I at?
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

Or you could tell me the correct procedure for a safe overtake.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Overtaking what? Where? What am I driving/riding? What are the conditions?
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

Or you could just tell me where your wheels would be pointing while waiting in the road at a right turn junction. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Where about in the road? Where in the queue am I? Is there a queue?
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

What about how to hold the steering wheel while changing gear on a roundabout? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Am I turning the wheel? Entering the roundabout? Leaving it?
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

Come on Mister Paul, don't be shy. You don't need any training, so you should know all this, <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Oh, I do. But you're going to have to give a bit more information.

You're funny. You think you're putting yourself across as very knowledgeable.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

and you should also know how to anticipate junctions on country lanes before you can actually see them, what visual cues give their location away.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yup.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

It should be really easy for a man of your abilities.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Driving is never really easy cretin. If you're finding it that way, then you're not paying proper attention. Complacency is very dangerous. Surely you must know that?
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

So I work in IT and live near you? Prove it. Or just admit that you're making things up.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
<still rubbing chin>

...and noting that that's another rambling diversion from any of the questions put to you. What does my level of ability have to do with you answering the question about the need to hold an IAM certificate?

That's not good debating.

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

Mister Paul · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

No I did not. What I said is that if you are being tailgated and there is no possibility of allowing the tailgater to pass by, then you should increase the stopping distance ahead of you to allow both vehicles will to be able to stop safely. Heres the post, just in case you forgot:

http://www.cyclingplus.co.uk/forum/topi ... hichpage=4

Thats very different to what you're suggesting, which is that I believe that tailgaters aren't responsible for their actions - a ridiculous fabrication. And I note that you didn't mention the very illegal thing he did, if indeed he was on a motorway. Are you and Cunobelin the same person, he likes to make things up to, and I've pointed it out and corrected him every time hes done it.

So theres another question answered, an answer you'll ignore when it suits you, and another answer you haven't given.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Right, so that's an answer to a question which you accept that you didn't answer, despite just claiming that you have answered all questions. Jolly good.

You said

Driving like that you won't last long. The correct procedure would have been to leave enough space ahead for both of you to safely brake to a halt. Stopping in the carriageway is inviting a serious accident.

Note the bold. It's irrelevant. If you're following a car, and it's too close to the car in front of it to be able to stop in the distance, then you need to be far enough back to be able to stop when that car stops.

If you're being tailgated, you have no control over the car behind. It is impossible for you to ensure that you are both going to be able to stop safely. And it's not your responsibility.

Your statement is ridiculous. Which is why I mentioned it. I'm disappointed that an advanced driver like yourself could make such a glaring error.

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

Cretin · June 2007

Oh look, its the "answer questions with more questions" tactic. I could ask you what 20+20 is, and you'd answer "decimal or hex?" And your little point about 'contact points' is so ridiculous I can't stop laughing. You don't know do you? You can't answer any of those questions. You just don't know, and you can't admit it. Its like Eric Morecambe playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order.

On my mother's life I am laughing my head off.

In reply to your second post at 15:17:52:

I'm not following a car. A car is following me. Its too close. What do I do? Do I sit there in Mister-Paul-Land and think "oh its not my responsibility, so I'll just ignore him and he'll go away", or do I sit there in Cretin-Land and think "uh oh, I'd better leave a bigger gap ahead so I don't get sandwiched in an emergency and die".

What a load of laughable twaddle. You're altering your posts after I've replied, changing the context of my answers, answering my own questions with more questions, inventing things about my real life identity, associating me with people I'm not and opinions I don't hold.

You're completely and utterly unable in any respect no matter how minor to admit that you might be even slightly wrong, no more obviously so than when I point out your lies to your face in this very page.

You're now on a par and in the same room with your mates Rothbrook and Tourist Tony. Its been great fun watching you make an idiot of yourself and having to swallow your own lies, so I think I'll spare you the pain of making an even bigger fool of yourself.

What an absolutely brilliant thread. Thanks for making my afternoon so entertaining!

Mister Paul · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

Oh look, its the "answer questions with more questions" tactic. I could ask you what 20+20 is, and you'd answer "decimal or hex?" And your little point about 'contact points' is so ridiculous I can't stop laughing. You don't know do you? You can't answer any of those questions. You just don't know, and you can't admit it. Its like Eric Morecambe playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order.

On my mother's life I am laughing my head off.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It was, as I said, a tribute to your tactics cretin. And at the same time it highlighted the failure of your attempt at ridicule.

So are you asking me what a contact point is? You haven't yet.

I'll happily answer your questions. But you're going to have to give a bit more information. You see, we can't all see into your head.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

In reply to your second post at 15:17:52:

I'm not following a car. A car is following me. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yup. That was never in doubt.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

Its too close. What do I do? Do I sit there in Mister-Paul-Land and think "oh its not my responsibility, so I'll just ignore him and he'll go away", or do I sit there in Cretin-Land and think "uh oh, I'd better leave a bigger gap ahead so I don't get sandwiched in an emergency and die".<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
And with that you'd be corrected. The correct procedure would be to move out of the car's way. You see, you're not in total control of the road ahead. You're not going to have unlimited space. And you should be leaving enough of a gap in front of you anyway.

And if you can't move out of the way then you slow to a speed at which you can stop safely in the space ahead. This may mean stopping completely.

You said

The correct procedure would have been to leave enough space ahead for both of you to safely brake to a halt. 

I repeat. Again. This is nonsense. It is impossible for you to ensure adequate safe space between you and the car behind you. It is impossible for you to ensure that you and the car behind are both able to come to a halt safely. You cannot remove the risk of the car behind colliding with you. A 10 year old in a go-kart knows that.

And it also reveals your mistaken belief that you are in total control of your vehicle and surroundings. (highlighted because, amongst all the buffoonery this is still a real issue which, cretin, you have the opportunity to learn from.)

Keep talking. The more you do the more you reveal your real driving ability. And, worryingly I say it again, it raises concerns about the effectiveness of IAM training.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

What a load of laughable twaddle. You're altering your posts after I've replied, <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Really? Where?
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

changing the context of my answers, <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Really? Where?
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

answering my own questions with more questions, <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
What's good for the goose[;)]
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

inventing things about my real life identity, associating me with people I'm not and opinions I don't hold.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
<rash developing on chin from rubbing>
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

You're completely and utterly unable in any respect no matter how minor to admit that you might be even slightly wrong, no more obviously so than when I point out your lies to your face in this very page.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

What lies?

Now, readers, following cretin's inability to understand basic roadcraft, and inability to answer simple questions put to him, here's the bit where he gets increasingly manic and then claims that there is no point continuing.

That's great debating. Really.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

You're now on a par and in the same room with your mates Rothbrook and Tourist Tony. Its been great fun watching you make an idiot of yourself and having to swallow your own lies, so I think I'll spare you the pain of making an even bigger fool of yourself.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

There you go. You said that before. And you just couldn't keep away.

Oh, and the unanswered questions remain. I listed a few of them above.

If you ever feel the need to regain any credibility, it might help you to look at them again. Your call.

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

notanotherusername · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

In reply to your second post at 15:17:52:

I'm not following a car. A car is following me. Its too close. What do I do? Do I sit there in Mister-Paul-Land and think "oh its not my responsibility, so I'll just ignore him and he'll go away", or do I sit there in Cretin-Land and think "uh oh, I'd better leave a bigger gap ahead so I don't get sandwiched in an emergency and die".

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I know I shouldn't .....

but I am trying to visualise this. I am driving the car in front. Another car is approaching at speed behind me and is sitting on my tale.

Your solution, as I understand it, is to speed up so there is a bigger gap between me and the following car?

What happens when I get to a vehicle travelling in front of me?

Does that driver have to start going faster as well to get away from me?

And so on an so on...

Do we all start going faster and faster until we all reach escape velocity and leave the earth's atmosphere?

How do I get off at junction 3?

Cheers

Stephen

Cretin · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by notanotherusername
Your solution, as I understand it, is to speed up so there is a bigger gap between me and the following car?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No, my solution is to slow down so there is a bigger gap between me and the preceeding car.

Mister Paul · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by notanotherusername
Your solution, as I understand it, is to speed up so there is a bigger gap between me and the following car?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No, my solution is to slow down so there is a bigger gap between me and the preceeding car.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yet that still doesn't ensure that both you and the car behind can come to a halt safely. That's the bit that I think people are struggling with, cretin.

And it raises another question. Exactly how much extra space is required for you and the following car to be able to stop safely? How much more than you would need for just your car to stop safely?

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

Oh, and note the next very reasonable question, repeated above.

Are you going to ignore this one as well, yet claim to have answered it?[;)]

Cretin · June 2007

Oh and I really shouldn't, but Mister Paul perhaps you should read the original quote from the link I provided to demonstrate why 'moving out of the way' in the situation described would be rather difficult. Congratulations, HAHAHAHH!

Cretin · June 2007

rofl. I am literally rofl'ing.

Mister Paul · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

Oh and I really shouldn't, but Mister Paul perhaps you should read the original quote from the link I provided to demonstrate why 'moving out of the way' in the situation described would be rather difficult. Congratulations, HAHAHAHH!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You just can't keep away, can you?

Seeing as you're back, perhaps you could add some more to your solution. Or are you going to leave it as it is an let people think that your driving ideas are on a par with that Maureen from Driving School?

Tell me again how you can ensure that the car which is tailgating you has sufficient space to be able to come to a halt safely.

You'll find that, if you take your idea to its conclusion, AC's actions were pretty much the same as yours would be.

Let's see you get yourself out of this.

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

Mister Paul · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

rofl. I am literally rofl'ing.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That's as maybe, but rofling isn't addressing the problem of your driving style. And it's not answering the questions. And it's definitely not giving you any of the credibility back which you have blown.

cretin, to summarise,

As a safe and experienced driver, you know that you should always leave sufficient space ahead in order to be able to stop safely. You claim that if a car is tailgating you then you should leave sufficient space in order to be able to stop safely. Weren't you before?

Now, you also claim that it is possible to leave sufficient space to ensure that the tailgating car is able to stop safely. And you have yet to explain this nonsensical statement, made by someone who for the last couple of weeks has been claiming the high ground because he holds a piece of paper.

You also are for removing speed limits, while at the same time stating quite correctly that on the motorway one should be able to safely anticipate the speed of an approaching car in the outside lane in order to be able to overtake from the middle lane. You don't see the difficulty and danger that your proposition brings, and as usual aren't prepared to discuss it.

And you think that pretending to be amused is going to get you out of your mess.

Rofl indeed.

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

Tourist Tony · June 2007

I really don't see the problem here. According to SS trolls passim, all drivers are safe'n'experienced (TM). They are as capable of judging a safe brakingg distance as they are of judging a safe speed, and don't neede nanny-state interference with their concentration.
While they are distracted by having to check such things as speedometers and the gap to the car in front, especially in these murderous 20mph zones, they don't have time to concentrate on important SS things like their handheld GPS ('Sixy the Red', IIRC) or trawling the local death notices....

Seriously, pinhead, you have made two comments that show what you really are, and why you should never be allowed a licence. The first was your comment about taking as opposed to passing the IAM test.
Admit it: you failed, didn't you?
Secondly, and more importantly, there was your atatement about not being reponsible for other road users' safety.
There we have the entire SS message in a nutshell, including the four-eyed geekloony's own comments about how other road users should not expect to be as safe as car users, so its their fault when struck by a safe'n'etc....
Or perhaps their "mothers should have taught them how to cross the road properly"

Go back to your playpen, little boy (IAM, failed)

If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or Dick

Portsmouth = 1st city with a blanket 20mph limit

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