Portsmouth = 1st city with a blanket 20mph limit

Mister Paul · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

Mister Paul, can I summarise?

Certain people here appear to have entire paragraphs saved on their computer that they regurgitate on demand. You can see it in practically every rabid thread about cars.

You're one of these people, along with Rothbrook, Tourist Tony, Jaded, and now Cunobelin who has managed to utterly ignore the last reply I gave him, possibly in the vain hope that nobody noticed he didn't know what he was talking about.

Talk about trolling all you like, you all love it. You'd have nothing to do if places like PH and Safespeed didn't exist. I find it hard to believe that any of you own or ride a bike, none of you appear to know what the real problems for cyclists are.

Personally I think none of you have the slightest clue what you're talking about other than what you've managed to find on Google. But thats fine, I'm sure you'll all be smiling happily in hospital after the driver doing 19mph clouts you while turning left. Or perhaps it will be a pedestrian who blithely wonders into the road because "20mph is safer than 30mph" and now no longer needs to look out for his own safety. After all, nobody teaches the green cross code any more, they don't have to, because its not their responsibility.

All of you, do yourself a big favour - go and talk to some people in real life who know a thing or two about road safety - because you all need some real life lesssons on the subject.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

So you still can't answer my two very very simple questions then?

Obviously not. All you can do is resort to senseless ranting.

If ever you do come up with anything, please let us know. We'll be waiting...

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

Mister Paul · June 2007

Oh, and cretin,

It appears that you're going to have to continue adding people to your list.

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

Jaded · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by whitley

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cunobelin

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">He passed the test therefore it is valid.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Welcome to the forum....

An interesting conclusion...

I am an external examiner for two Universities. Believe me - invalid conditions, or misconduct by an examiner is grounds for revoking a result or changing the level of a pass. It is called a "professional standard".

Students have had entire course results revoked and "sent down" when later evidence has cast doubt upon results.

So will you support answering the challenge and repeating the claims to the IAM that he was encouraged to speed during the test, thus invalidating the test procedure and asking their opinion about the validity?

We await the reply eagerly.........

He that buys land buys many stones.
He that buys flesh buys many bones.
He that buys eggs buys many shells,
But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.
(Unattributed Trad.)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

What invalid conditions or misconduct do you refer to?
The IAM is not a university nor are there any pecuniary benefits to be gained from being a member.
Imagine that you are driving down a hill within the promulgated limits .There are numerous vehicles travelling in the opposite direction up the hill.
You look in your rear view mirror and notice that an HGV driver is flashing his lights and gaining ground on you at an abnormal rate.
What do you do. Stay within the speed limit or accelerate to a speed in excess of the legal limit in order to minimise the risk of him either having to overtake you or run into the back of you?
Safe driving is as much to do with circumstances and common sense as blind adherence to the law at any cost.
If as cretin says there was a point in his test when ignoring the limit was considered the safer option then the examiner would have noted this and not penalised him.
You should join your local Sunday morning assessment sessions.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hello paggers

--
[Warning] This post may contain a baby elephant or traces of one

Tourist Tony · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul
So you're going to continue to use that tactic to ignore the perfectly legitimate questions, central to your position?

I see...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Do you consider it a perfectly legitimate tactic to guess my real life identity and then use that guess to place doubt on anything else I say?

Its truly pathetic, even more so because the person involved is offensive.

As for the argument about 20mph limits, nothing of yours that I have read over the last few months has demonstrated that you have anything but an unwavering belief in your own opinions and superiority - and therefore I simply will not waste my time helping you to inflate your ego. You believe in a world where responsibility should be abrogated to the state. I believe in a world where responsibility should be assumed by the individual. The two positions are diametrically placed and will never meet.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I've been away for a dew days, in the New Forest, riding one of the bikes I apparently don't have.
Simon...me? Offensive? This from the saddo who referred to Dan Cadden as a "spotty herebert", and spoke about how pedestrians deserve to die for crossing the road?

And someone who suggests we "join the real world" who even has the Sims as part of his e-mail address.....
How manu virtual worlds are you involved in, Simes? I can call you Simes, can't I? Or would you prefer whatever term of endearment Regulator used?
He is a big boy, isn't he?

If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or Dick

ScumOfTheRoad · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Tourist Tony

I've been away for a dew days, in the New Forest, riding one of the bikes I apparently don't have.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Tony, come off it. Start telling the truth. You just know that no one on this forum is capable of cycling the long distances you all claim.
Needs training ya? Und no time fur das fingerpoken at der clavier. [}:)] [;)]

Tourist Tony · June 2007

I see Simon's master has a balanced viewpoint:
"SafeSpeed
Site Admin

Joined: 06 Mar 2004
Posts: 15067
Location: Safe Speed
Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:09 pm Post subject:

Dondare wrote:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/statistics/da ... efactsheet

But this is my main point:
"... those who have to drive or who choose to drive should appreciate that pedestrians and cyclists have as much right to be able to make their journey safely as they do."

But it's drivel.

You might as well say that those who choose motorbikes have as much 'right to safety' as those who choose cars.

Or

Those who choose hill walking holidays have as much right to safety as those who choose lying-in-the sun holidays.
_________________
____ _______
Please sign our scrap speed cameras petition
Scrap Speed Cameras Week - starts 24th June "

Sorry for quoting Dondare without warning him, but note Smith's underlying attitude, which is the same as Bonj's and Simon's:
"MY road. Get off MY road. If you haven't got a cage around you, you deserve to get hurt"

Also note the balanced debating technique of "it's drivel".

If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or Dick

BigWomble · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

Mister Paul, can I summarise?

Certain people here appear to have entire paragraphs saved on their computer that they regurgitate on demand. You can see it in practically every rabid thread about cars.

You're one of these people, along with Rothbrook, Tourist Tony, Jaded, and now Cunobelin who has managed to utterly ignore the last reply I gave him, possibly in the vain hope that nobody noticed he didn't know what he was talking about.

Talk about trolling all you like, you all love it. You'd have nothing to do if places like PH and Safespeed didn't exist. I find it hard to believe that any of you own or ride a bike, none of you appear to know what the real problems for cyclists are.

Personally I think none of you have the slightest clue what you're talking about other than what you've managed to find on Google. But thats fine, I'm sure you'll all be smiling happily in hospital after the driver doing 19mph clouts you while turning left. Or perhaps it will be a pedestrian who blithely wonders into the road because "20mph is safer than 30mph" and now no longer needs to look out for his own safety. After all, nobody teaches the green cross code any more, they don't have to, because its not their responsibility.

All of you, do yourself a big favour - go and talk to some people in real life who know a thing or two about road safety - because you all need some real life lesssons on the subject.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

So you still can't answer my two very very simple questions then?

Obviously not. All you can do is resort to senseless ranting.

If ever you do come up with anything, please let us know. We'll be waiting...

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Far be it for me to intervene into a bun-fight, but I'd thought I'd share this research by the DfT with you.

Traffic Calming 20mph Zones in Kingston Upon Hull

Crashes fell by 56%
People killed and seriously injure fell by 90%.

Economic rate of return 1160% (try getting that from a bank!)

Injuries reduced by 60%
Child pedestrian injuries by 75%
Saving œ35m.

The zones cover 26% of the city.

Source: "Walking and cycling success stories" Department for Transport
2004. TINF965 (available free from their web site).

BW
Transport Planner

Ta - Arabic for moo-cow

Cunobelin · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">What invalid conditions or misconduct do you refer to?
The IAM is not a university nor are there any pecuniary benefits to be gained from being a member.
Imagine that you are driving down a hill within the promulgated limits .There are numerous vehicles travelling in the opposite direction up the hill.
You look in your rear view mirror and notice that an HGV driver is flashing his lights and gaining ground on you at an abnormal rate.
What do you do. Stay within the speed limit or accelerate to a speed in excess of the legal limit in order to minimise the risk of him either having to overtake you or run into the back of you?
Safe driving is as much to do with circumstances and common sense as blind adherence to the law at any cost.
If as cretin says there was a point in his test when ignoring the limit was considered the safer option then the examiner would have noted this and not penalised him.
You should join your local Sunday morning assessment sessions.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

A bizarre assumption!

The same would be true if there was an alien spaceship bearing down on you, but as relevant in this case.

The statement was made that the examiner had encouraged speeding and the IAM policy is to encourage speeding in direct contravention of their stated policy.

That is what needs to be clarified.

He that buys land buys many stones.
He that buys flesh buys many bones.
He that buys eggs buys many shells,
But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.
(Unattributed Trad.)

Anonymous · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cunobelin

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">What invalid conditions or misconduct do you refer to?
The IAM is not a university nor are there any pecuniary benefits to be gained from being a member.
Imagine that you are driving down a hill within the promulgated limits .There are numerous vehicles travelling in the opposite direction up the hill.
You look in your rear view mirror and notice that an HGV driver is flashing his lights and gaining ground on you at an abnormal rate.
What do you do. Stay within the speed limit or accelerate to a speed in excess of the legal limit in order to minimise the risk of him either having to overtake you or run into the back of you?
Safe driving is as much to do with circumstances and common sense as blind adherence to the law at any cost.
If as cretin says there was a point in his test when ignoring the limit was considered the safer option then the examiner would have noted this and not penalised him.
You should join your local Sunday morning assessment sessions.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

A bizarre assumption!

The same would be true if there was an alien spaceship bearing down on you, but as relevant in this case.

The statement was made that the examiner had encouraged speeding and the IAM policy is to encourage speeding in direct contravention of their stated policy.

That is what needs to be clarified.

He that buys land buys many stones.
He that buys flesh buys many bones.
He that buys eggs buys many shells,
But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.
(Unattributed Trad.)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

So the possibility of brake failure wouldn't occur to?
Just apply to the IAM and do the test. It's not the rocket science you seem to think it is.[:D]

Cunobelin · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">So the possibility of brake failure wouldn't occur to?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Surely a shot in the foot?

If you are anticipating the possibility of brake failure then speeding is a bit of an oxymoron, or are you suggesting that brake failure at a higher speed is safer?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Just apply to the IAM and do the test. It's not the rocket science you seem to think it is.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Is there any point if they are lying as claimed?

He that buys land buys many stones.
He that buys flesh buys many bones.
He that buys eggs buys many shells,
But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.
(Unattributed Trad.)

Anonymous · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cunobelin

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">So the possibility of brake failure wouldn't occur to?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Surely a shot in the foot?

If you are anticipating the possibility of brake failure then speeding is a bit of an oxymoron, or are you suggesting that brake failure at a higher speed is safer?
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Just apply to the IAM and do the test. It's not the rocket science you seem to think it is.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Is there any point if they are lying as claimed?

He that buys land buys many stones.
He that buys flesh buys many bones.
He that buys eggs buys many shells,
But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.
(Unattributed Trad.)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Oh deary me.
Don't apply for the test,save yourself the embarrassment..

ScumOfTheRoad · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Also note the balanced debating technique of "it's drivel".
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ah! Mein kleine freunde Tony. Vo ist ser gemutliech. Mein grosse schwarzwald torte. I love your beard. [:X]

Cunobelin · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Oh deary me.
Don't apply for the test,save yourself the embarrassment..<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Nicely avoided - now answer the question....

He that buys land buys many stones.
He that buys flesh buys many bones.
He that buys eggs buys many shells,
But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.
(Unattributed Trad.)

Jaded · June 2007

Cunobelin, you shouldn't expect answers from paggers.

--
[Warning] This post may contain a baby elephant or traces of one

Cunobelin · June 2007

One can but hope......

Perhaps we should use the same trick, fail to prove or answer a point, and re- register under a new persona to support yourself...

He that buys land buys many stones.
He that buys flesh buys many bones.
He that buys eggs buys many shells,
But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.
(Unattributed Trad.)

Cunobelin · June 2007

Justto diverge slightly....

We have a claim that speeding is "back of the manual" and that speeding was encouraged, and acceptable for advanced drivers.

This would fit in well with the work of LOnero et al who showed that in some cases the lessons are deliberately or unconciously misinterpreted and in an evaluation of the effectiveness of some drivers who had undergone advanced driving assessment that
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
These evaluations suggest that raising levels of driving skill does not necessarily reduce crashes. In some cases car handling training is actually associated with a higher crash risk<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This was conformed by later work (Naatanen and Summala) that in some drivers advanced traiing was ineffective unless certin motivational problems were addressed:
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">However, it is reasonably clear that practical safety benefits will only occur if these programs are coordinated with motivational influences. Otherwise, there is a clear danger that, "...increased skills raise the level of aspiration in driving (higher speed, more frequent overtaking, smaller margins of safety, etc.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Now which "incarnation" will respond to this, or do we need another new one?

He that buys land buys many stones.
He that buys flesh buys many bones.
He that buys eggs buys many shells,
But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.
(Unattributed Trad.)

slowfen · June 2007

Having done and passed the IAM test, part of the training included warnings that the examiners were serving police officers, and although off-duty would take a very dim view of any infringement of the law.

"Speed limits must be obeyed and any breach of law during your advanced driving test will result in failure" IAM Manual

"Speed restrictions are limits, not targets." IAM Manual

Cretin you say you passed the IAM test, try reading the section on speed in the manual

The IAM test is about increased observation and skill, BUT does nothing to address poor attitude to other road users apart from being able to drive at the required standard for 60 - 90 mins.

Cunobelin · June 2007

slowfen - For your interest

This is a frequent claim by pro-speeding "visitors" that they were allowed to speed during the test and that their instructors encourage speeding because it is safer. Now they are advanced rivers they should be able to speed with impunity. A case where the value of the test is devalued in the eyes of the public.

The IAM stated in a previous case that they would investigate such claims, and if the claims were true would suspend and retrain the Examiner and possibly require the test to be retaken. Hence the "Challenge",

I cannot

He that buys land buys many stones.
He that buys flesh buys many bones.
He that buys eggs buys many shells,
But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.
(Unattributed Trad.)

slowfen · June 2007

Yes I realise that, but in cambs they are at pains to make it evident that this is not allowed.

Also dont forget the last president of the IAM was removed (may have jumped) for repeated speeding convictions

slowfen · June 2007

I am proud of passing the test, but am aware that it is devalued by some groups. There has been concern that some groups have been hijacked by pro-speeding groups, which is undermining there staus even more.

Tourist Tony · June 2007

We're in agreement here, then.

That is the point of SSimoncretin's attempted troll earlier about policemen exceeding the limit when on a shout---they are trained, etc, and it is seen as safe; I (SSimoncretin) have an IAM badge so speeding must be safe for me as well.

If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or Dick

Cunobelin · June 2007

I see that this has stumped the opposition?

He that buys land buys many stones.
He that buys flesh buys many bones.
He that buys eggs buys many shells,
But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.
(Unattributed Trad.)

Mister Paul · June 2007

You're on his hitlist Cunobelin, which means that he doesn't have to talk to you.

A list which, very con-incidentally, includes everyone who has made points which show the flaws in his argument, and which he has no response to.

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

Tourist Tony · June 2007

He's just off on Second Life driving his Primera---I mean, Maserati.

If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or Dick

hairytoes · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

Besides, a 6 ton bus going 20mph has got the same momentum as a 1.5 ton car going 80mph. So if your attitude is to assume that a ped IS going to be hit (which doesn't say much about confidence in the authorities' confidence in a ped's ability to cross the road, but still), then maybe to minimise damage we should introduce a momentum limit,
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You're quite thick, aren't you? Not a clue about the difference between momentum and kinetic energy? Or what actually causes injury?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Woolly Mammoths are just cuddly elephants

Cretin · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cunobelin
The statement was made that the examiner had encouraged speeding and the IAM policy is to encourage speeding in direct contravention of their stated policy.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Quote me. Go on. Do it if you can.

Cunobelin · June 2007

I refer the "gentleman to his earlier post........."

He that buys land buys many stones.
He that buys flesh buys many bones.
He that buys eggs buys many shells,
But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.
(Unattributed Trad.)

Cretin · June 2007

I'm still waiting. Show us all where I said the above. Go on Cunobelin, do it.

Cunobelin · June 2007

You present yourself as an advanced driver and that because of your IAM Accreditation, the following quotes can be accepted as indicative of your attitudes and claims:

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I should tell you that on my advanced driving exam, I did not adhere to the speed limit. In fact I broke it many times, yet still passed because my driving was to an acceptable standard. The examiner was a retired police advanced driver and mentioned the speed limit only in passing, and without any critisism.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">In fact while on the test I came across a peculiar speed limit on a motorway slip road - the examiner told me that I was entirely correct to ignore it<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">In advanced driving, speed limits are pretty much at the back of the manual. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I don't really feel any need whatsoever to exceed the speed limit. I just don't pay it much attention, since it has little relevance to my safety as a driver.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The IAM clearly states that:
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Any excessive speed above the statutory speed limit, or the use of speed inappropriate for the circumstances regardless of any limit is dangerous and unacceptable. It must be remembered that speed limits are exactly that. Limits - not targets. Advanced drivers use their skill and awareness to decide when they should impose their own restraints, below the statutory speed limits depending on the circumstances.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Your claims for the IAM, your "advanced driving technique" and your test are in direct contravention of their statement, now are you saying taht you are wrong, or that you are wrong?

THe fact still remains that for some reason you are reluctant to ask the IAM aboutthe conduct of your test and its validity, why will you not do so if you are so confident about it?

He that buys land buys many stones.
He that buys flesh buys many bones.
He that buys eggs buys many shells,
But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.
(Unattributed Trad.)

Cretin · June 2007

But you said that a statement was made. Where did I make that statement?

The answer is that I didn't, and once again you made it up.

You are also aware that the IAM is not the only advanced driving organisation aren't you? You think that I've only taken the one? What advanced qualifications do you hold Cunobelin?

Portsmouth = 1st city with a blanket 20mph limit

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