Portsmouth = 1st city with a blanket 20mph limit

Cretin · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cunobelin

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
I wasn't indecisive in the first place.

You really need to stop inventing things from thin air, unless you're not able to comprehend what I've typed.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Another "invented thing from fresh air then:

You are also aware that the IAM is not the only advanced driving organisation aren't you? You think that I've only taken the one?

He that buys land buys many stones.
He that buys flesh buys many bones.
He that buys eggs buys many shells,
But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.
(Unattributed Trad.)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Why didn't you also quote Rothbrook on a previous page, who very helpfully has highlighted exactly which test I broke the speed limit on?

Here, have some more straws.

Cretin · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Jaded
You suggest training as the answer. You have absolutely no idea if this is an achievable goal. It is not the answer until you know it is an achievable goal. Until then it is something that you can spout in a pub and get a few like-minded people to nod sagely.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thats funny. You suggest more speed cameras as an answer to worsening road safety. Considering the record levels of speeding fines being issued despite a massive increase in the numbers of these cameras and an annual death toll that shows little movement, I'd suggest that your suggestion isn't really achieving much.

This is descending into a slanging match now. That might entertain some of you, but it bores me senseless. Still, at least you've demonstrated your disinterest in anything but your own brand of dogma to be worthless to anyone with knowledge of the subject at hand. Perhaps they'll put your name on a speed camera, as they do on a park bench. At least the latter serves a useful purpose, and is useful to the same part of the anatomy as is one of your treasured automatons.

Ta ta.

Jaded · June 2007

Cretin.

I think you have got a little confused.

The starting point is that you think that cameras should be removed.

You were asked what there should be in their place.

You say training.

You have absolutely no idea about the practicalities of that suggestion. It appears to be a Friday night pub-bore suggestion

When asked to come up with something more concrete you flail about, with a park bench.

Then you say you are bored.

The simple fact appears to be that you do not wish to see enforcement mechanisms for traffic law. One might assume from this that you have no regard for traffic law.

(Oh, and the annual death toll is reducing. You have been misled by your speedophile mates.)

--
[Warning] This post may contain a baby elephant or traces of one

Jaded · June 2007

Oh, and please don't go away just because you can't answer difficult questions!

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[Warning] This post may contain a baby elephant or traces of one

Cunobelin · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Why didn't you also quote Rothbrook on a previous page, who very helpfully has highlighted exactly which test I broke the speed limit on?

Here, have some more straws.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Because......

Unless you are Rothbrook, this does not clarify your attempt to fudge the issue.

You stated:
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">You are also aware that the IAM is not the only advanced driving organisation aren't you? You think that I've only taken the one?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The only person who can clarify how many you claim to hold and which one you claim to have been speeding whilst taking is you.

Why the reluctance to make the claims clear?

He that buys land buys many stones.
He that buys flesh buys many bones.
He that buys eggs buys many shells,
But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.
(Unattributed Trad.)

rothbook · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> an annual death toll that shows little movement, <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Blatantly untrue. The roads are getting safer once traffic growth is factored in. Where are you getting this garbage from?

toontra · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rothbook

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> an annual death toll that shows little movement, <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Blatantly untrue. The roads are getting safer once traffic growth is factored in. Where are you getting this garbage from?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

He's making it up as he goes along. It's the kind of arguing style you can get away with in a pub where people aren't likely to challenge your prejudices (if they are listening in the first place). Unfortunately, when the argument is dissected and the individual assumptions challenged, it turns out that the "facts" are either wrong, urban myths or are merely opinions.

there's no such thing as steep hills - just the wrong gear

Bobby Lightcycles · June 2007

I think speeding is bad.

Driving really is very simple. Stick to the speed limit. How many of the people involved in crashes are within the speed limit? That's right, not many.

We've all seen it. A car's driving along at 70mph on the motorway, perfectly safe, not a care in the world. It accelerates up to 80mph and all hell breaks loose. Every single time. The extra speed in itself, without any other factors, is enough to cause a crash, swiftly and without remorse. Suddenly the driver wishes that there had been a safety camera after all.

Support for safety cameras has soared to unprecedented levels, as more and more errant drivers have "the crash" and realise how wrong they have been all this time. That's good, but there's still plenty to do. When will the rest of the speedophiles learn? If they just slowed down then road deaths would be a thing of the past.

Flying_Monkey · June 2007

2/10 for humour
1/10 for the name
0/10 for subtlety

Must try harder.

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety

rothbook · June 2007

Remorseful speed?

You must get a lot of love at home Bobby to have the confidence to believe you're funny.

Motorways, who cares, raise the limit, at least then it's usually just the speeding twunts who end up as a splatter of guts on the asphalt.

Bobby Lightcycles · June 2007

Who said anything about humour? What part of my post do you dispute? I thought you agreed that speed kills, which is all I was saying.

And I like the name that I've been given.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Motorways, who cares, raise the limit, at least then it's usually just the speeding twunts who end up as a splatter of guts on the asphalt.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yeah, who cares about all the passengers who may or may not be travelling in a speeding vehicle? Who cares that they may actually agree with your views? At least they'll have furthered your cause by dying.

A bit like when Muslims are blown up in terrorist explosions.

rothbook · June 2007

This is a cycling forum bobby old boy.

I don't care about motorways because cyclists don't go on motorways.

If you feel with your sarcastic and unpleasant first posts that speeding is safe, then tell me which roads, shared with cyclists, that you speed on.

Or examine the pro-speeding lobby like the forum I suspect you have come from.

Do you know why the pro-speeding lobby known as SS here refuse to allow their beer-mat scribbles research be examined?

Or why Small Pith, the one-man-band self-publicist and self proclaimed "road safety expert" refuses to discuss his qualifications or why he allows people pretending to be police officers on his forum?

Or, Bobby, steer me toward the research that shows that speeding's safe. there must be summat that guides you towards your conclusion that speeding is safe.

What is it?

Cunobelin · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Yeah, who cares about all the passengers who may or may not be travelling in a speeding vehicle<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

A separate issue....

Tell the driver to slow down, drive more carefully, and if they don't - refuse to get in the car with them.

He that buys land buys many stones.
He that buys flesh buys many bones.
He that buys eggs buys many shells,
But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.
(Unattributed Trad.)

rothbook · June 2007

Two post wonder. Where are these muppets coming from?

Bobby Lightcycles · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rothbook
Two post wonder. Where are these muppets coming from?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Sorry, I didn't realise I was only allowed 20 minutes to reply to your dogma.

Especially ironic coming from someone who calls themselves "Slowcoach39", but never mind.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rothbook

This is a cycling forum bobby old boy.

I don't care about motorways because cyclists don't go on motorways.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Too right. Stuff the lot of 'em. Only cyclists are important. You clearly care a great deal about the wider issues of road safety, and so when you talk about speeding, I know that your pro-safety agenda is genuine.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rothbook
If you feel with your sarcastic and unpleasant first posts that speeding is safe, then tell me which roads, shared with cyclists, that you speed on.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I never speed. Therefore I am a safe driver. As I have already explained, I know perfectly well that as sure as night follows day, a crash follows the right foot going down too far. I don't understand why you have a problem with me, I thought we were singing from the same hymn sheet? Do let's be friends. We can ride two-abreast and stop the deranged speedophiles together.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rothbook
Or examine the pro-speeding lobby like the forum I suspect you have come from.

Do you know why the pro-speeding lobby known as SS here refuse to allow their beer-mat scribbles research be examined?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I don't post on other forums. But since all of the Safe Speed pages are online, I don't think they're refusing to allow them to be examined. Maybe you haven't tried, which would explain why you only ever quote a couple of isolated parts of the site that no longer even exist. It's almost as if you can't come up with answers to any other parts of the site.

Just as well that we all know instinctively that the site is nonsense, and that going over the speed limit is like shooting a child. No detailed statistics or other silly numbers are required. Ponytail Smith and his cronies just want to speed everywhere, and are always trying to be clever and come up with all this overblown nonsense about how it's safe. We don't need to disprove his analysis, because it's obviously ludicrous. Selfish speedophiles are killers, and that's all that needs to be repeated, over and over again.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rothbook
Or why Small Pith, the one-man-band self-publicist and self proclaimed "road safety expert" refuses to discuss his qualifications or why he allows people pretending to be police officers on his forum?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
A lot of awfully successful people have no qualifications as such. It's right that they should be gagged from stating their opinions about anything. And I'm interested in the fake officer, where's your proof? We ought to take this to the real police, unless they're fake as well of course.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rothbook
Or, Bobby, steer me toward the research that shows that speeding's safe. there must be summat that guides you towards your conclusion that speeding is safe.

What is it?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
"Mr Lightcycles" to you. And as I've already said, there can be no research showing that speeding is safe, because it isn't. So I don't even need to look for it. Besides, it's rational to assume that everything is dangerous and demand research showing the contrary, rather than the opposite approach.

I just looked out of the window and there was someone going at 35mph. I'll walk down the road a bit later and see how bad the accident was.

ScumOfTheRoad · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rothbook

Two post wonder. Where are these muppets coming from?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Indeed. As I've said before, these twits will try to domiate this forum if they think they'll get away with it, then run sniggering back to the playground.
I've been on C+ for a few years, and also subscribe to the magazine. I find the C+ forum lively, informative and funny. There is still plenty of content and interesting discussions on the other boards. Adn to be honest, decent debate and other viewpoints with people like Linfordlunchbox. Linford (for instance) genuinely seems a reasonable bloek, the sort of bloke you would have a good night with down the pub.
Unlike atmosphere hoovers.

The episodes in the past of harrasment of C+ staff and attempts to close the forum down have saddened me - for God's sake it is an online cycling forum.

Flying_Monkey · June 2007

5/10 for persistence
0/10 for any new contribution to the debate

Remedial classes needed?

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety

Bobby Lightcycles · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Flying_Monkey

5/10 for persistence
0/10 for any new contribution to the debate

Remedial classes needed?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
And what are you contributing, other than tedious ad-hoc remarks in reply to my "non-contributions"?

At least rothbook pretends (s)he's actually having a constructive debate.

rothbook · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> At least rothbook pretends (s)he's actually having a constructive debate. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'd agree with this if you actually bothered to reply to what I asked.

dondare · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Bobby Lightcycles

I think speeding is bad.

Driving really is very simple. Stick to the speed limit. How many of the people involved in crashes are within the speed limit? That's right, not many.

We've all seen it. A car's driving along at 70mph on the motorway, perfectly safe, not a care in the world. It accelerates up to 80mph and all hell breaks loose. Every single time. The extra speed in itself, without any other factors, is enough to cause a crash, swiftly and without remorse. Suddenly the driver wishes that there had been a safety camera after all.

Support for safety cameras has soared to unprecedented levels, as more and more errant drivers have "the crash" and realise how wrong they have been all this time. That's good, but there's still plenty to do. When will the rest of the speedophiles learn? If they just slowed down then road deaths would be a thing of the past.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Why mention motorways? These roads are deigned for fast-moving motor traffic. Roads with footpaths, roads that run though residential areas next to houses, schools and shops are not. Where you are likely to encounter cyclists and pedestrians then you do need to have a different attitude to speed; you need to be prepared to slow down.

"da sapienti et addetur ei sapientia doce iustum et festinabit accipere."

linfordlunchbox · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rothbook

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> At least rothbook pretends (s)he's actually having a constructive debate. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'd agree with this if you actually bothered to reply to what I asked.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It looks like you just did - even if it was an involuntary reaction [:D]

"I'd clean my car with a baby elephant - if I had a baby elephant !"

dondare · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Bobby Lightcycles

Support for safety cameras has soared to unprecedented levels, as more and more errant drivers have "the crash" and realise how wrong they have been all this time. That's good, but there's still plenty to do. When will the rest of the speedophiles learn? If they just slowed down then road deaths would be a thing of the past.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The speed-camera petition didn't get as many sigs as the HC petition. Who'd have thought that cyclists care more about the Highway Code than motorists do about Gatsos?

"da sapienti et addetur ei sapientia doce iustum et festinabit accipere."

Jaded · June 2007

A very familiar quoting style.

You've been here before, haven't you.

--
[Warning] This post may contain a baby elephant or traces of one

rothbook · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Who'd have thought that cyclists care more about the Highway Code than motorists do about Gatsos? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Indeed. Further humiliation for Sm1th and his obscure backwater campaign.

Any answers yet Bobby?

Bobby Lightcycles · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rothbook
Any answers yet Bobby?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I'm still waiting for yours. Did you actually read until the end of p63 or did you just randomly jump to p64 at some previous point?

Bobby Lightcycles · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Jaded

A very familiar quoting style.

You've been here before, haven't you.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yes, but I've never quoted anyone, so I'm obviously not who you think I am.

SPEED KILLS -- SLOW DOWN

Bobby Lightcycles · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dondare
Why mention motorways? These roads are deigned for fast-moving motor traffic. Roads with footpaths, roads that run though residential areas next to houses, schools and shops are not. Where you are likely to encounter cyclists and pedestrians then you do need to have a different attitude to speed; you need to be prepared to slow down.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
So you don't think we should have safety cameras on motorways? What about roads like the A3 Esher bypass, which cyclists and pedestrians can in theory use?

SPEED KILLS -- SLOW DOWN

dondare · June 2007

What part of the 20 mph zone in Portsmouth is the A3 Esher bypass?

At what point did this become a motorway thread?

"da sapienti et addetur ei sapientia doce iustum et festinabit accipere."

Bobby Lightcycles · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dondare

What part of the 20 mph zone in Portsmouth is the A3 Esher bypass?

At what point did this become a motorway thread?

"da sapienti et addetur ei sapientia doce iustum et festinabit accipere."
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I apologise. I didn't realise there had been 64 pages of discussion about exactly the topic title and nothing else.

But of course my original principle still applies. 20mph in a new 20mph limit (which was safe at at least 30mph for nearly a century) and you're AOK. 25mph and you might as well give up observing, anticipating or trying in any way to preserve yourself: you WILL crash. The only way to prevent it is not to speed.

SPEED KILLS -- SLOW DOWN

Jaded · June 2007

Let it argue with itself.

--
[Warning] This post may contain a baby elephant or traces of one

Portsmouth = 1st city with a blanket 20mph limit

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