LEAVE the Conservative Party and save your country!
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I'll take that as a yes. Last I checked we still lease a bit of land that we sub-let to the Americans.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
That was my point, just worded differently.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.1 -
It's simplest if we just accept that for Stevo, if it's got the label 'Tory' on it, it must be good, and if it's got the label 'Labour' it must be bad. I suppose that's logical at one level, and it saves having to analyse beyond the label.
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You'd be wrong then. Labour took the final decision on their watch.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I don't have a problem with the decision. I think the Conservative government were doing the right thing to maintain our access to DG. Presumably you think we and the Americans should have lost access via the ICJ? Or do you know better than the Americans about their own airbase?
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I'm only talking about who gave it away. Good diversion effort though.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Having signed firstly the Northern Ireland Protocol and then the Windsor Framework, I'm not sure the Tories are on solid ground complaining about Labour giving up sovereignty of British territory
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Think the word is 'back', not 'away'. Yes, of course Labour are in government for the completion of the negotiations. You should be pleased that Labour are completing the good work the Conservative party started (not that either had any real choice - the game was up and the US weren't going to lose DG). This is the Conservative thread after all.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Story going around that Jenrick is telling MP's privately that he will pivot back to centre if he wins. Another flip flopping chancer with no conviction or moral backbone. Perfect candidate to be Tory Leader!
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You’re right there. The one nation conservatives are not interested in either candidate and are going to bin the ballot papers, so he has seen a few extra votes going spare if he smiles sweetly at them.
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That a Tory leader doesn't get to establish a mandate from the parliamentary party seems a huge flaw in the process..
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Changing course would require a level of self reflection that is completely lacking from the party.
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True.
But this is a free hit. They've not waited long before removing a leader in the past and they have 4 years to do so again.
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It also assume that they can do right wing populist politics better than Farage, which is also quite a gamble.
I suppose the the ONC MPs have got the leverage that if they defected en masse to the Lib Dems, the LDs would become the Opposition, which would be extremely funny, and probably a better opposition to hold Labour to account.
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The Tories want to be the trusted traditional populist brand. Reform don't have enough of a populist track record yet.
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Be interesting to know how he is pitching it, "you know all that right wing stuff I have been spouting in public for the last few years? Well, ignore that I was just making it up, I promise!"
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It won't happen but this would be quite a good tactic. I suspect that actual pupulist wing amongst current MP's is actually quite small, they (like all autocrats) survive on a lack of opposition from those who are too scared to overthrow them. If they suddenly found themselves greatly reduced in numbers and isolated it would be game over.
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Is it possible to be a centrist populist?
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It is if you are Robert Jenrick!
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Only if you're an Oxy Moron.
Trouble is, being a centrist rather implies that there aren't easy answers, and that complex problems are probably going to end up with pragmatic and messy solutions, which rather goes against the populist ethos of three-word slogans that appeal to the uneducated and the desperate, such as 'Take back control' and 'Stop the boats'.
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What if you run on a manifesto pledging not to change anything. It's all ticking along nicely so I don't need to do much.
Other than Brexit and that inconvenient head cold bug thing, that seemed to be the Boris approach.
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Very little about the leadership contest gives me the impression that the populist wing is the small one.
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The clue's in the name "conservative" - meaning go crazy changingstuff and hope for the best. That's why they voted for Truss - and she truly implemented the policies she said she would. Got to respect that.
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Is it okay if I don't respect it?
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That's basically what I have been saying. Labour could be a mere reprieve from the right wing surge that has occurred across Europe. One glimmer of hope is that elsewhere the far right will have, by the time the next election comes around, had more time to be toxic and off-putting. Similarly, if Trump wins we will have had 4 years of batshit crazy world instability to contend with as a result of toxic far tight politics.
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I have thought about this a lot. I know we should never be complacent but I struggle to see this happening in the UK. The main problem for populists is that they generally tend to be good at the rhetoric but piss poor at getting things done and in the UK we generally like to see tangible results. The Tory's have spent the last few years tearing down democratic institutions and floating right of right policies and the UK responded by voting them out. I get the sense that even with the most contentious issues like immigration, the majority want a sensible discussion and plan, they do not want to riot in the streets and burn down hotels like a very small minority of scumbags.
Of course strange things can happen, but we have no real history or cultural connection to populism or any form of far right political leaning in this country (which many European countries obviously do). I think our general response to people that try to push it is to tell them to F* off.
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An interesting analysis for Bloomberg on the Tories' failure:
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I don't think she knows what autism is if she is lumping it together with anxiety and suggesting a person can 'work it out for themselves'.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0
