The Big 'Let's sell our cars and take buses/ebikes instead' thread (warning: probably very dull)
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I have to commend the creator of the thread with giving it a mostly sensible title. Personally I think it's quite interesting how we achieve that happy aspiration.
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In the spirit of diverting away from Stevo endlessly complaining about things that have no impact on him, I've stumbled across this. So, things have definitely moved in the right direction 🙂
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Thanks, a very interesting read, and mostly stuff I was completely unaware of.
I always come back to the A7 in Lyon (and Valence) as an example of how motor traffic infrastructure has been prioritised over everything else: cutting local people and houses off from a beautiful and mighty river in order to allow people to whizz though in their motorised metal boxes mostly unaware of the consequences of the impenetrable barrier they are using. At this point in Lyon, residents are separated from their river by eight lanes of traffic.
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Maybe no coincidence that this graphic of Milwaukee then popped up on FB;
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As it becomes more and more obvious that Stevo is losing the argument his statements get more and more outlandish.
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How can I tell ypu don't drive? 😉
It's much less annoying than 20. But if I want to have some decent fun I'll go somewhere else, plenty of fun country roads with a national speed limit round these parts. Or a track day.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Only once 😉
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Were the wesh people offered a referendum on the 20mph limit?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Driving in an urban area is shit. I can’t see how anyone can enjoy doing it at 20, 30 or higher no matter what car they drive. The time driving becomes enjoyable is on an open country road. To reverse your argument why have a limit of 30? Why not make it 40 or 50? 30 is completely arbitrary, 20 at least has some significant research behind it.
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In most place 20 feels far too slow to me and a lot of people will agree, hence the low rate of observanc of the 20 limit - the old adage that crap laws get ignored applies here.
Drakeford & Co decided that they were right and they knew better. The reaction shows that its judgmental and that we should push back where we disagree. It's about striking a balance and important not to let car hating lefties have their way.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]1 -
That’s just because people are used to driving at 30 plus as they have always done it. I’ll say it again, 20mph is evidence based whereas 30mph was just a random number someone thought was appropriate at the time. As someone who is actually a ‘victim’ of the law and affected by it any time I use my car it really is a non-issue.
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Anyone who thinks that 20mph is appropriate everywhere simply hasn't thought it through or is anti car in my view. It has its places but in limited situations as I've said before. We will never agree so I'll just oppose it if it affects me and you can do what you want about the limits in Wales.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]1 -
I guess you are one of these people who thinks that 20mph is appropriate everywhere.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]1 -
I don't think that many people observe any speed limit unless there are speed cameras. 20 mph limits have reduced speeds on some of the key roads in Edinburgh, and people really do trundle along at about 25 instead of 35 now. It makes a big difference if you are a pedestrian, and reducing the speed limit makes no difference to journey times.
Where it does affect journey times is through rural villages. They have this as a blanket policy in the Borders - which you seem completely unaware of Stevo - where some villages stretch along significant lengths of A-roads. In my experience this has transformed those villages for the better, both in terms of safety and livability. Based on the number of roadside memorials I used to cycle past, this policy is entirely compatible with engaging in spirited driving elsewhere.
The blanket approach in Wales was spectacularly poor marketing of a policy that is either accepted or has widespread support elsewhere, and that is all. I just don't understand why you care so much about not being able to have fun in a 20 mph zone instead of not being able to have fun in a 30 mph zone.
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No. No-one does. You're inventing stuff, which isn't a good way to try to win an argument.
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See my post above about the 'having fun' point. I just dont want have to drive on roads where the limit is clearly inappropriately low. Its not a big ask.
As I've said before, there's more to it than speed.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Good, because I was struggling to find a single post where you had actually argued in favour of 30 over 20 limits. So you can forgive me for assuming that.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Surely something that increases safety without reducing journey times is appropriate? Your perception of the policy in Wales is not the reality - at least in my limited recent experience it is implemented in the same way as lots of other places.
As I've said before, there's also a bit more to it than safety. There is noise and pollution.
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Oh FFS.
Nobody thinks that.
20mph is not the limit in most of Wales.
You are bitching and moaning about a thing that doesn't exist.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition1 -
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As I was having an altercation (at a safe distance) with someone who'd given me a punishment pass (and whom I'd then followed to a car park), I did actually only claim to be doing 22mph (on the road, obviously, as that wouldn't be safe on the "f**king cycle path" he'd vocally encouraged me to use as he whizzed past) rather than the 25mph I was actually doing, as I didn't think he'd believe that. He didn't seem impressed either way, and didn't even believe the 22mph. Tush, the bounder.
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I'm glad you say that nobody thinks that, as quite clearly its ridiculous, but I never said that. My point about 20 being inppropriate in many of the places where it has been imposed in Wales still stands however.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I'll agree it doesn't reduce journey times, hard to see how it could.
Let's see the data to back up the other claims in your post.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
The pollution point is not about engine efficiency at 20mph, it's about less acceleration and braking. Are you seriously arguing that a slower car isn't quieter?
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Tsk Brian, silly question. An AMG is never quiet, unless rev zero. 🤣
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
No it doesn't. Your argument was that it had been applied to most roads. It hasn't. There's another thread if you find cars interesting. This isn't it.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0
