2024 Election thread
Comments
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It's been acknowledged that both parties do it and that it's probably not a good use of civil servants' time.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I was largely indifferent re the abolishment or retention of the LTA. I could work with either scenario. What was "grinding my gears" was the uncertainty given that one's whole pension pot is affected by the LTA, unlike say contributions, which are only subject to the tax regime applicable when they are made.
But enough about me. We need to hear from Stevo!
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It's from 2019 apparently, thought it was Photoshopped to be honest.
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No tax increases. More tax cuts. Less NI contributions. Less to fund public services. More money in your pocket to pay for it yourself.
Isn't this just privatising the NHS by the back door? Which ever party says it, it's still the same?
Sometimes. Maybe. Possibly.
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One big issue with the tax cuts IMO, is that they aren't going to put enough back in your pocket that you forget the cost of living crisis.
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With regards to the NHS, what the country needs is a proper, genuine debate about its purpose.
It is currently the 7th largest employer on the planet, and the largest in Europe by a distance.
However, the left will never allow that debate to happen, and the black hole that it is gets bigger and bigger.
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They only do it when they are in government I assume - do they pay for the civil servants' time taken to produce costings for things they aren't planning to do?
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lol black hole.
It's a socialist health system that has all the hallmarks of a socialist health system.
AKA, it is very effective at making the floor very high. It is also chronically underfunded, like any proper socialist system, and as a result, it is has massive queues for everything. How very socialist.
French survival rates for most major diseases are higher, but then they spend more on healthcare.
I honestly don't think, beyond the awful US model (which arguably subsidises the rest of the world, so let's not complain too loudly), there is much difference between different ownership models.
The main difference is the cost. The UK spends less on health than Western Europe and so it has worse outcomes. You could quite fairly argue that is a symptom of being state owned - there is always a reluctance to invest.
Like most socialist things, it tends to fall apart after 80 years, and it is faith that keeps it going, not rational thinking.
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Bahahaha!
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
How many dubious claims can anyone spot in this?
I got 14. Even in the headline ones, they haven't got 20,000 more police officers, they haven't got defence spending at 2.5% of GDP, crime isn't down by 55%, boat crossings aren't down this year.
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I think you're pretty much agreeing with DB's point. The issue is that anyone trying to come up with a solution to all these problems gets shouted down as 'trying to privatise the NHS'. It is a sacrosanct institution so on one hand people will moan about their experiences using it whilst on the other hand vehemently fighting anyone trying to change it. It's definitely not sustainable in its current model and the longer people are scared of any kind of significant reform the worse the gap between what it can provide and what people expect will become which I'm pretty sure is the point DB is making.
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Couldn't take the first sentence seriously.
"Conservatives will always stand up for our values."
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Even if you agree with the policy, how can this be an achievement of the last 14 years of Conservative government?
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Seriously, it doesn't matter what is in their manifesto? They're running ads begging for votes from Reform so that Labour's majority isn't too big. They've given up.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
First glance, it looks like more spending, paid for by fairy dust. Not as much fairy dust as Reform's "plans", but probably a bit less than Labour's.
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I am not sure what you mean you say it is chronically underfunded like any socialist system. Two key sectors which many in the UK (and on this forum) constantly talk about being underfunded and essentially awful in terms of service delivery are railways and water. They are both privately owned. I don't see the underfunding of a service being symptomatic of socialism, it is symptomatic of how much the owner is willing to invest, and private ownership is just as likely to underinvest as it's profits are siphoned off into senior staff and shareholders bank accounts.
Aren't the overwhelming majority of healthcare funding models essentially socialist? The aim in most countries is to provide some form of universal coverage, regardless of individual circumstances. Yes, there are different models of taxation as a funding source, but the overriding principle is the same. Even the US has Medicare.
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All I can hear is 'gobble gobble' 🙂
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I'd say the French (or German or Dutch) model is more "social democrat" to give it a name. I.e. heavily regulated market with a floor to look after the poor.
The UK one is actually socialist. It's all state owned, there's really only one provider. Even private; it's the same doctors and if it's emergency they hand you over to the NHS anyway.
That's why is' the biggest employer in Europe etc.
All socialist models of major parts of economies in real life eventually end up underinvested in, with queues around the block.
Queuing was such a feature of communist Poland they turned it into a board game!
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So you can't find one.
So far, the Tories have contributed to 0 wage growth per person since they started - one of the worst performing economies of the G7 on productivity, having been some of the best before.
They have made the City where I work less competitive, internationally.
Brexit has meant I have had to conduct considerably more work abroad than before; and work abroad doesn't pay as well as it does here in London, so it's also cost me that way.
Under this government, the one public service I use on a regular basis, trains, have become the most expensive in Europe and some of the most unreliable.
One of their manifesto commitments back in 2010 was to reform the planning system to make it easier to build homes - how has that gone?
The one thing you'd expect them to do is bin off a weird marginal tax rate of 60odd per cent for those earning a certain amount - they haven't even managed to do that.
What on earth makes you think I would want more of that?
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I'd question whether it's truly unsustainable. It seems to me that much of the chronic pressure on it is due to cuts elsewhere meaning it has to pick up the slack. I do not know how you fix this, but given most better performing systems have higher budgets, it doesn't seem to be the case that it's the overall NHS model that's the issue.
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Can we move away from your personal bank balance towards more population level policy discussion please?
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Struggling to follow the thread where Stevo considers me voting Labour as turkeys voting for christmas?
It is difficult for those who didn't study an arts subject to follow things this, I appreciate ;).
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Boat crossings are down this year. They'll just gloss over we not half way through the year yet. 😉
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
The "our values" is their personal values. 😉
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Perhaps pop over to CCHQ and give them a pep talk. You seem to believe in the project more than they do.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
i see the führer is following the trump script to the letter
the fascist who hates this country described patriots as "...a violent left-wing mob who hate our country..."
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
This is the thing that has always puzzled me, fascists who claim they are so called patriots and love their country, yet the irony seems to be lost on them that actual patriots fought and defeated actual fascists during WW2 for the continued sovereignty of our country.
I know the complexity of this is probably lost on muppets like Farage, but I am always surprised that more on the left do not point out the hypocrisy in the far rights alleged 'patriotism'.
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Why does he always wear a tweed cap and Barbour? Did he misread the sign in the shop that said country clothing?
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Can one person be described as a mob?
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