Pog v Vin, who win?

josame
josame Posts: 1,155
edited May 30 in Pro race

Getting it in early

If Vingegaard rocks up who wins the Tour?

'Do not compare your bike to others, for always there will be greater and lesser bikes'
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Comments

  • gsk82
    gsk82 Posts: 3,516

    If he rides or if he's 100% fit and rides?


    2 different answers to those questions.

    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • N0bodyOfTheGoat
    N0bodyOfTheGoat Posts: 5,954

    It's a big IF Vin goes at all and whether he he anywhere near fighting fit, IMO.

    ================
    2020 Voodoo Marasa
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  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,531

    Pog,

    Effectively Vin has had the same year that Pog had last year and we saw what the consequence was. (And poor ol' Vin has had it worse this year)

    Hope we get a resurgent Vin and a knackered Pog tho!

    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,930

    Could it offer a chance to Remco/Roglic if the other two are not at their peak?

  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,531

    Is Remco riding too?

    (rather a big miss from me if so 😶)

    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,261

    I don't see the point of taking Vingegaard to the Tour given his preparation, or lack of.

    Visma management know that they way to beat Pogacar is to make the race hard day in, day out, and WVA is an integral part of that strategy. Given his form, he's not going to be able to do that this year. Even if he could, Vingegaard doesn't have the endurance to be able to cope with that approach at the moment, so I can't see how they can beat Pogacar, especially as it would take Vingegaard as his absolute peak to beat him in his current form.

    I think they'd be better off targeting a Vuelta win for Vingegaard and take a team to the Tour focused on stage wins.

  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,851

    I'd be tempted to have a punt if I was Vingegaard.

    Roglic is getting older, there are question marks over how good Remco is as a TdF contender and Pog has ridden the Giro. Plus it only takes a crash to take an opponent out of the race.

    Yes it depends how far off he is - there's no point in going if he's nowhere near - but if they think there is even an outside shot I'd take it. He can always use it as training for the Vuelta if he finds himself struggling.

    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,930

    Presumably Vingegaard would do a race of some kind before the Tour so his relative form could be gauged? It's hard to imagine he would go from crash to Tour based on just training.

  • mooro
    mooro Posts: 483

    so is Kuss the Visma leader at the Dauphine? He might have a crack at the tour…

  • josame
    josame Posts: 1,155

    PCS says no, not ideal but it is 3 weeks so treat the first week as a warm up?

    'Do not compare your bike to others, for always there will be greater and lesser bikes'
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,261

    Have you seen the first week's parcours? If your form is close to one hundred per cent, you will lose a lot of time.

  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,851

    His team have posted a shot of him training in the French Alps. There's snow and he's wrapped up against the cold. Does that imply he's at least seriously considering the Tour ?

    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,431

    It would imply he is entering the Tour. Only he and the team know to what extent. Winning, or training for the Vuelta?

    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,145

    He's in Tignes where Jumbo have their summer altitude camps and have done so for at least 5 years. many of their riders and back room staff are based there for the summer so I wouldn't read too much into it either way.

    I suspect they are still asssessing his health and fitness before making a decision. Would they throw him into the Tour de Suisse as a trial?

  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,978

    It' highly unlikely he'll be racing anything pre-Tour. Pog only raced that nat champs pre-Tour after crashing out of LBL. He is still working to close gaps, his trainers say they don't know if they will be closed far enough to ride the Tour, but that's what he's attempting. They've also said he won't ride the Tour unless he's 100%, but they point out it's not really possible to tell the difference between 98% and 100% so it's always going to be a bit "in the ballpark". They say that the decision may come pretty much as late as when the squad needs to be officially announced. As pointed out above, he's training in Tignes, where he's waiting for the Tour team post-Dauphiné altitude camp.

    Personally, I think he's going to make it, just a hunch.

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  • andyrac
    andyrac Posts: 1,145

    Considering his injuries, including a punctured lung, and staying in hospital longer than ideal - I can't believe he'd be anywhere near top form......

    All Road/ Gravel: tbcWinter: tbcMTB: tbcRoad: tbc"Look at the time...." "he's fallen like an old lady on a cruise ship..."
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 74,417

    It’s mad vingers is even riding the tour after that. These guys are built differently

  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,054

    Pog .... But who knows maybe undercooked Jonas comes super good in the third while fatigued pog fades big time in the third with the giro in his legs

    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,054

    Pog though

    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • wakemalcolm
    wakemalcolm Posts: 748

    Having played 'loyal' lieutenant to Kuss for the first 2 weeks, Vingers finally gets permission to attack on his own in the last mountain stage as Pog does Pog things. He then gets gubbed by Pog, Rog, and Remco in the final TT leaving Visma with nobody on the podium

    Thomas finishes 6th.

    ================================
    Cake is just weakness entering the body
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,431

    Not convinced that the Giro took too much out of him tbh.

    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • jimmyjams
    jimmyjams Posts: 765

    I'm surprised Jumbo were at Tignes in May (which isn't Summer), and have been at least 3 weeks already, when the Col d'Iseran is still closed (due to open 14 June) as was the nearby Col du Petit Saint Bernard (it only opened yesterday, 31 May), and the temperature at Tignes hasn't been ideal for cycling in the last weeks, average only about 5 deg C, often frost/ice overnight.

    I would have thought, if it must be in the French Alps, somewhere lower down would make more sense during May. Somewhere west of a line between Joux-Plan ands Croix-de-Fer, as most high passes east of that line are still closed in early/mid May, some even longer. There are plenty of good training routes and passes just west of this line.

    Though, I suppose Vinge can go up and down to the closed-road barrier all the time, with no traffic to think about.

  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,851

    If he is there does the lack of prep mean he can ride into form over 3 weeks or that he will fade as the lack of miles catches up with him.

    On The Move podcast the consensus seemed to be Pog should try and finish him on those early mountain stages in week one in case he rides himself into form.

    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • hanshotfirst
    hanshotfirst Posts: 383

    I personally just want to see them go at each other when they're both in peak form.


    2021 - Pog was peak but Jonas was riding in support of Roglic, right? Didn't let the reigns off him till Roglic had crashed out?

    2022 - was a fair fight I reckon, Jumbo battered Pog as a team.

    2023 - Pog came in undercooked having crashed at LBL, Jonas was streaks ahead of everyone.

    2024 - roles reversed from last year, if Jonas rides he'll not even land a scratch, reckon Pog walks it unless Giro fatigue hands the victory to someone like Roglic or even Rodriguez? Think it could be quite an open tour actually... maybe not, who knows?

    2025 - love to see them both arriving at the Tour fully prepped for the race and they just knock lumps out each other until one man is left standing... and I'd like that to be Pogacar.

  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,930

    UAE Tour team announced. He'll have Yates, Ayuso, Soler, Sivakov, and Almeida as climbing support. Not sure I can recall a team "that" strong before. All of those could justifiably aim for the top 10 in other teams.

  • gsk82
    gsk82 Posts: 3,516
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,978

    Upgrading Movistar's trident attack to...


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  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,930

    The likes of Almeida and Ayuso are ideal super domestiques as they're extremely strong diesels.