Buying a house with subsidence
Comments
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People on internet forums telling them to stay well awaysurrey_commuter said:In your first post you described it as fantastic potential in a great location, you should ask yourself why nobody else can see this as I would expect a dozen people to be fighting for it.
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Yes, you can easily spend more than this and £3k/m2 is not unusual. It depends what you want. Just in case it's not obvious, when calculating the floor area you need to count both floors.First.Aspect said:I think I'm being quoted more like 3 at the moment, possibly a bit more. For context, access is a bit difficult and we are going to need slate roof, a fair bit of glass and some external materials that will be sympathetic to the existing sand stone. There is also demolition (we are replacing a comedy conservatory that functions as a warming oven) and design costs.
Another family member is looking to build a single storey across the back of his house. Just a bog standard 3 bed semi in the SE at the moment, building over a patio, nothing fancy. Possibly 30 sqm at the very most and even he is looking at £50-60k.
My limited experience is that the numbers you see online are for something thrown up with breeze blocks on a straightforward site, with PVC windows.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Yep - I did double to count both floors (although perhaps I was optimistically hoping it was including both!)
I guess we shall see what the costs come to - I have a friendly builder who can price it up for me (based on purely observing, rather than actually proper analysis).0 -
the best way to make small building projects like this much much cheaper AND improve quality is to manage them yourself and be prepared to be on site and get dirty tired and fed up.
buy some proper project management software and bang everything into it. your frazzled brain will thank you for it.
ive saved hundreds of thousands of pounds over the years by doing that and running a fair but tight ship. it's probably stating the bleeding obvious but here are some of the things that work for me
Places to save
1 Skips.... make sure theyre filled properly. @c300 for an 8 yard skip they can mount up quickly
2 shop around for a site toilet
3 get a trade account at your local independent builders merchant. for discount.
4 dont buy cheap tools
5 make sure day rate labour is directed clearly and you have alternatives for them to do when there is an issue with something else. Fag breaks are when and if the job permits it. dont finish half an hour early if there's a small job that can be done that gets you ahead tomorrow. eg sealing walls for tomorrows plastering.
6 be fair but not a push over with labour, they appreciate it and you dont get messed about
7 dont be afraid to bin lazy scrot bags that make a mess or dont care or get bolshy. they disrupt everyone on site and are just not worth the hassle
8 a massive bag of chocolate bars is cheap and motivating
9 dont pay for price based jobs such as electrical work or plumbing or heating until youve had a chance to spot any faults. it keeps the supplier keen to come back and rectify.
10 never hire a mumbler. Ever
11. Health and safety. if some div blinds himself with brick dust because hes not wearing eye protection your whole day or week will be wasted. likewise crushed toes. be prepared to supply ppe to cheaper day rate workers. and make sure the silly gits use it
12 Materials. bricklayers will happily open a bag pf cement down the middle for one spade full. make it clear that preserving materials is important. likewise buckets will get chucked instead of cleaned, cement mixers wheelbarrows spades and shovels all need cleaning at the end of the day
13 mix stuff even if in a bucket on a large board not on the drive. again people dont care about your drive, they just wont think about it
14 dont skimp on paints and other chemical stuff
do give yourself a break and treat it like a job. i.e. its not good practice to work for 15 hours a day over the weekend and bank holidays.
15 you dont kneed to know how to do everything, you just need to know what you want done.
get stuck in its hard work but achievable, even when you and the family are living there in the dust and horror of it all.
0 -
Would echo the bit in bold. Even on a small domestic project, it could easily swallow a day or two per week of your time if you are hiring and managing all the labour directly and supplying all materials.david37 said:the best way to make small building projects like this much much cheaper AND improve quality is to manage them yourself and be prepared to be on site and get dirty tired and fed up.
buy some proper project management software and bang everything into it. your frazzled brain will thank you for it.
ive saved hundreds of thousands of pounds over the years by doing that and running a fair but tight ship. it's probably stating the bleeding obvious but here are some of the things that work for me
Places to save
1 Skips.... make sure theyre filled properly. @c300 for an 8 yard skip they can mount up quickly
2 shop around for a site toilet
3 get a trade account at your local independent builders merchant. for discount.
4 dont buy cheap tools
5 make sure day rate labour is directed clearly and you have alternatives for them to do when there is an issue with something else. censored breaks are when and if the job permits it. dont finish half an hour early if there's a small job that can be done that gets you ahead tomorrow. eg sealing walls for tomorrows plastering.
6 be fair but not a push over with labour, they appreciate it and you dont get messed about
7 dont be afraid to bin lazy scrot bags that make a mess or dont care or get bolshy. they disrupt everyone on site and are just not worth the hassle
8 a massive bag of chocolate bars is cheap and motivating
9 dont pay for price based jobs such as electrical work or plumbing or heating until youve had a chance to spot any faults. it keeps the supplier keen to come back and rectify.
10 never hire a mumbler. Ever
11. Health and safety. if some div blinds himself with brick dust because hes not wearing eye protection your whole day or week will be wasted. likewise crushed toes. be prepared to supply ppe to cheaper day rate workers. and make sure the silly gits use it
12 Materials. bricklayers will happily open a bag pf cement down the middle for one spade full. make it clear that preserving materials is important. likewise buckets will get chucked instead of cleaned, cement mixers wheelbarrows spades and shovels all need cleaning at the end of the day
13 mix stuff even if in a bucket on a large board not on the drive. again people dont care about your drive, they just wont think about it
14 dont skimp on paints and other chemical stuff
do give yourself a break and treat it like a job. i.e. its not good practice to work for 15 hours a day over the weekend and bank holidays.
15 you dont kneed to know how to do everything, you just need to know what you want done.
get stuck in its hard work but achievable, even when you and the family are living there in the dust and horror of it all.
Some of the savings need to be considered against your own lost earnings.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Given that I'm working evenings and a few weekends at the moment already, I've gone with a one stop shop, with an architect and project management included. I guess I've got to the point where that's the trade off for the stress of the job that pays for it. Great. A loose loose situation.rjsterry said:
Would echo the bit in bold. Even on a small domestic project, it could easily swallow a day or two per week of your time if you are hiring and managing all the labour directly and supplying all materials.david37 said:the best way to make small building projects like this much much cheaper AND improve quality is to manage them yourself and be prepared to be on site and get dirty tired and fed up.
buy some proper project management software and bang everything into it. your frazzled brain will thank you for it.
ive saved hundreds of thousands of pounds over the years by doing that and running a fair but tight ship. it's probably stating the bleeding obvious but here are some of the things that work for me
Places to save
1 Skips.... make sure theyre filled properly. @c300 for an 8 yard skip they can mount up quickly
2 shop around for a site toilet
3 get a trade account at your local independent builders merchant. for discount.
4 dont buy cheap tools
5 make sure day rate labour is directed clearly and you have alternatives for them to do when there is an issue with something else. censored breaks are when and if the job permits it. dont finish half an hour early if there's a small job that can be done that gets you ahead tomorrow. eg sealing walls for tomorrows plastering.
6 be fair but not a push over with labour, they appreciate it and you dont get messed about
7 dont be afraid to bin lazy scrot bags that make a mess or dont care or get bolshy. they disrupt everyone on site and are just not worth the hassle
8 a massive bag of chocolate bars is cheap and motivating
9 dont pay for price based jobs such as electrical work or plumbing or heating until youve had a chance to spot any faults. it keeps the supplier keen to come back and rectify.
10 never hire a mumbler. Ever
11. Health and safety. if some div blinds himself with brick dust because hes not wearing eye protection your whole day or week will be wasted. likewise crushed toes. be prepared to supply ppe to cheaper day rate workers. and make sure the silly gits use it
12 Materials. bricklayers will happily open a bag pf cement down the middle for one spade full. make it clear that preserving materials is important. likewise buckets will get chucked instead of cleaned, cement mixers wheelbarrows spades and shovels all need cleaning at the end of the day
13 mix stuff even if in a bucket on a large board not on the drive. again people dont care about your drive, they just wont think about it
14 dont skimp on paints and other chemical stuff
do give yourself a break and treat it like a job. i.e. its not good practice to work for 15 hours a day over the weekend and bank holidays.
15 you dont kneed to know how to do everything, you just need to know what you want done.
get stuck in its hard work but achievable, even when you and the family are living there in the dust and horror of it all.
Some of the savings need to be considered against your own lost earnings.0 -
I paid the architect to manage the process and did not regret it one bit. Without him I am sure I would have got paranoid about problems that were uncovered as we went along and the bill went up.First.Aspect said:
Given that I'm working evenings and a few weekends at the moment already, I've gone with a one stop shop, with an architect and project management included. I guess I've got to the point where that's the trade off for the stress of the job that pays for it. Great. A loose loose situation.rjsterry said:
Would echo the bit in bold. Even on a small domestic project, it could easily swallow a day or two per week of your time if you are hiring and managing all the labour directly and supplying all materials.david37 said:the best way to make small building projects like this much much cheaper AND improve quality is to manage them yourself and be prepared to be on site and get dirty tired and fed up.
buy some proper project management software and bang everything into it. your frazzled brain will thank you for it.
ive saved hundreds of thousands of pounds over the years by doing that and running a fair but tight ship. it's probably stating the bleeding obvious but here are some of the things that work for me
Places to save
1 Skips.... make sure theyre filled properly. @c300 for an 8 yard skip they can mount up quickly
2 shop around for a site toilet
3 get a trade account at your local independent builders merchant. for discount.
4 dont buy cheap tools
5 make sure day rate labour is directed clearly and you have alternatives for them to do when there is an issue with something else. censored breaks are when and if the job permits it. dont finish half an hour early if there's a small job that can be done that gets you ahead tomorrow. eg sealing walls for tomorrows plastering.
6 be fair but not a push over with labour, they appreciate it and you dont get messed about
7 dont be afraid to bin lazy scrot bags that make a mess or dont care or get bolshy. they disrupt everyone on site and are just not worth the hassle
8 a massive bag of chocolate bars is cheap and motivating
9 dont pay for price based jobs such as electrical work or plumbing or heating until youve had a chance to spot any faults. it keeps the supplier keen to come back and rectify.
10 never hire a mumbler. Ever
11. Health and safety. if some div blinds himself with brick dust because hes not wearing eye protection your whole day or week will be wasted. likewise crushed toes. be prepared to supply ppe to cheaper day rate workers. and make sure the silly gits use it
12 Materials. bricklayers will happily open a bag pf cement down the middle for one spade full. make it clear that preserving materials is important. likewise buckets will get chucked instead of cleaned, cement mixers wheelbarrows spades and shovels all need cleaning at the end of the day
13 mix stuff even if in a bucket on a large board not on the drive. again people dont care about your drive, they just wont think about it
14 dont skimp on paints and other chemical stuff
do give yourself a break and treat it like a job. i.e. its not good practice to work for 15 hours a day over the weekend and bank holidays.
15 you dont kneed to know how to do everything, you just need to know what you want done.
get stuck in its hard work but achievable, even when you and the family are living there in the dust and horror of it all.
Some of the savings need to be considered against your own lost earnings.
I am good with budgets but it was easy to see how people get in trouble with a 6 month project costing six figures then being presented with dozens of decisions each of which may "only" cost another £500.
Best advice above is to feed them as they fuel up like cyclists.0 -
The plus side is we already have an outside toilet, so that's not an issue...surrey_commuter said:
I paid the architect to manage the process and did not regret it one bit. Without him I am sure I would have got paranoid about problems that were uncovered as we went along and the bill went up.First.Aspect said:
Given that I'm working evenings and a few weekends at the moment already, I've gone with a one stop shop, with an architect and project management included. I guess I've got to the point where that's the trade off for the stress of the job that pays for it. Great. A loose loose situation.rjsterry said:
Would echo the bit in bold. Even on a small domestic project, it could easily swallow a day or two per week of your time if you are hiring and managing all the labour directly and supplying all materials.david37 said:the best way to make small building projects like this much much cheaper AND improve quality is to manage them yourself and be prepared to be on site and get dirty tired and fed up.
buy some proper project management software and bang everything into it. your frazzled brain will thank you for it.
ive saved hundreds of thousands of pounds over the years by doing that and running a fair but tight ship. it's probably stating the bleeding obvious but here are some of the things that work for me
Places to save
1 Skips.... make sure theyre filled properly. @c300 for an 8 yard skip they can mount up quickly
2 shop around for a site toilet
3 get a trade account at your local independent builders merchant. for discount.
4 dont buy cheap tools
5 make sure day rate labour is directed clearly and you have alternatives for them to do when there is an issue with something else. censored breaks are when and if the job permits it. dont finish half an hour early if there's a small job that can be done that gets you ahead tomorrow. eg sealing walls for tomorrows plastering.
6 be fair but not a push over with labour, they appreciate it and you dont get messed about
7 dont be afraid to bin lazy scrot bags that make a mess or dont care or get bolshy. they disrupt everyone on site and are just not worth the hassle
8 a massive bag of chocolate bars is cheap and motivating
9 dont pay for price based jobs such as electrical work or plumbing or heating until youve had a chance to spot any faults. it keeps the supplier keen to come back and rectify.
10 never hire a mumbler. Ever
11. Health and safety. if some div blinds himself with brick dust because hes not wearing eye protection your whole day or week will be wasted. likewise crushed toes. be prepared to supply ppe to cheaper day rate workers. and make sure the silly gits use it
12 Materials. bricklayers will happily open a bag pf cement down the middle for one spade full. make it clear that preserving materials is important. likewise buckets will get chucked instead of cleaned, cement mixers wheelbarrows spades and shovels all need cleaning at the end of the day
13 mix stuff even if in a bucket on a large board not on the drive. again people dont care about your drive, they just wont think about it
14 dont skimp on paints and other chemical stuff
do give yourself a break and treat it like a job. i.e. its not good practice to work for 15 hours a day over the weekend and bank holidays.
15 you dont kneed to know how to do everything, you just need to know what you want done.
get stuck in its hard work but achievable, even when you and the family are living there in the dust and horror of it all.
Some of the savings need to be considered against your own lost earnings.
I am good with budgets but it was easy to see how people get in trouble with a 6 month project costing six figures then being presented with dozens of decisions each of which may "only" cost another £500.
Best advice above is to feed them as they fuel up like cyclists.0 -
Very sensible. I look at half the morons on Grand Designs and wonder how they manage to keep a contractor let alone get the job finished (plus notice how they always exceed their budget significantly, they could probably spend that on professionals and get the job done to the original construction cost with far less persoanl stress).First.Aspect said:
Given that I'm working evenings and a few weekends at the moment already, I've gone with a one stop shop, with an architect and project management included. I guess I've got to the point where that's the trade off for the stress of the job that pays for it. Great. A loose loose situation.rjsterry said:
Would echo the bit in bold. Even on a small domestic project, it could easily swallow a day or two per week of your time if you are hiring and managing all the labour directly and supplying all materials.david37 said:the best way to make small building projects like this much much cheaper AND improve quality is to manage them yourself and be prepared to be on site and get dirty tired and fed up.
buy some proper project management software and bang everything into it. your frazzled brain will thank you for it.
ive saved hundreds of thousands of pounds over the years by doing that and running a fair but tight ship. it's probably stating the bleeding obvious but here are some of the things that work for me
Places to save
1 Skips.... make sure theyre filled properly. @c300 for an 8 yard skip they can mount up quickly
2 shop around for a site toilet
3 get a trade account at your local independent builders merchant. for discount.
4 dont buy cheap tools
5 make sure day rate labour is directed clearly and you have alternatives for them to do when there is an issue with something else. censored breaks are when and if the job permits it. dont finish half an hour early if there's a small job that can be done that gets you ahead tomorrow. eg sealing walls for tomorrows plastering.
6 be fair but not a push over with labour, they appreciate it and you dont get messed about
7 dont be afraid to bin lazy scrot bags that make a mess or dont care or get bolshy. they disrupt everyone on site and are just not worth the hassle
8 a massive bag of chocolate bars is cheap and motivating
9 dont pay for price based jobs such as electrical work or plumbing or heating until youve had a chance to spot any faults. it keeps the supplier keen to come back and rectify.
10 never hire a mumbler. Ever
11. Health and safety. if some div blinds himself with brick dust because hes not wearing eye protection your whole day or week will be wasted. likewise crushed toes. be prepared to supply ppe to cheaper day rate workers. and make sure the silly gits use it
12 Materials. bricklayers will happily open a bag pf cement down the middle for one spade full. make it clear that preserving materials is important. likewise buckets will get chucked instead of cleaned, cement mixers wheelbarrows spades and shovels all need cleaning at the end of the day
13 mix stuff even if in a bucket on a large board not on the drive. again people dont care about your drive, they just wont think about it
14 dont skimp on paints and other chemical stuff
do give yourself a break and treat it like a job. i.e. its not good practice to work for 15 hours a day over the weekend and bank holidays.
15 you dont kneed to know how to do everything, you just need to know what you want done.
get stuck in its hard work but achievable, even when you and the family are living there in the dust and horror of it all.
Some of the savings need to be considered against your own lost earnings.0 -
A mate doing a grand renovation had a flash QS pull up in an open top Boxter, swagger up and say hire me for £50k and I will save you at least a quarter of a million. Everything about him was annoying so told him to jog on. At the end of the project he could honestly say that was his worse decision in the whole process.Pross said:
Very sensible. I look at half the morons on Grand Designs and wonder how they manage to keep a contractor let alone get the job finished (plus notice how they always exceed their budget significantly, they could probably spend that on professionals and get the job done to the original construction cost with far less persoanl stress).First.Aspect said:
Given that I'm working evenings and a few weekends at the moment already, I've gone with a one stop shop, with an architect and project management included. I guess I've got to the point where that's the trade off for the stress of the job that pays for it. Great. A loose loose situation.rjsterry said:
Would echo the bit in bold. Even on a small domestic project, it could easily swallow a day or two per week of your time if you are hiring and managing all the labour directly and supplying all materials.david37 said:the best way to make small building projects like this much much cheaper AND improve quality is to manage them yourself and be prepared to be on site and get dirty tired and fed up.
buy some proper project management software and bang everything into it. your frazzled brain will thank you for it.
ive saved hundreds of thousands of pounds over the years by doing that and running a fair but tight ship. it's probably stating the bleeding obvious but here are some of the things that work for me
Places to save
1 Skips.... make sure theyre filled properly. @c300 for an 8 yard skip they can mount up quickly
2 shop around for a site toilet
3 get a trade account at your local independent builders merchant. for discount.
4 dont buy cheap tools
5 make sure day rate labour is directed clearly and you have alternatives for them to do when there is an issue with something else. censored breaks are when and if the job permits it. dont finish half an hour early if there's a small job that can be done that gets you ahead tomorrow. eg sealing walls for tomorrows plastering.
6 be fair but not a push over with labour, they appreciate it and you dont get messed about
7 dont be afraid to bin lazy scrot bags that make a mess or dont care or get bolshy. they disrupt everyone on site and are just not worth the hassle
8 a massive bag of chocolate bars is cheap and motivating
9 dont pay for price based jobs such as electrical work or plumbing or heating until youve had a chance to spot any faults. it keeps the supplier keen to come back and rectify.
10 never hire a mumbler. Ever
11. Health and safety. if some div blinds himself with brick dust because hes not wearing eye protection your whole day or week will be wasted. likewise crushed toes. be prepared to supply ppe to cheaper day rate workers. and make sure the silly gits use it
12 Materials. bricklayers will happily open a bag pf cement down the middle for one spade full. make it clear that preserving materials is important. likewise buckets will get chucked instead of cleaned, cement mixers wheelbarrows spades and shovels all need cleaning at the end of the day
13 mix stuff even if in a bucket on a large board not on the drive. again people dont care about your drive, they just wont think about it
14 dont skimp on paints and other chemical stuff
do give yourself a break and treat it like a job. i.e. its not good practice to work for 15 hours a day over the weekend and bank holidays.
15 you dont kneed to know how to do everything, you just need to know what you want done.
get stuck in its hard work but achievable, even when you and the family are living there in the dust and horror of it all.
Some of the savings need to be considered against your own lost earnings.0 -
Turns out noone (unless TwistyTrees can disagree) we will never get a mortgage on it, despite how minimal the work is.
I may be able to borrow the money to buy it in cash but doesn't seem like a sensible idea.
Gutted and relieved.
Thanks all for your help and sharing your experience.0 -
In the end it comes down to trust. He might just have been out of pocket by another £50k.surrey_commuter said:
A mate doing a grand renovation had a flash QS pull up in an open top Boxter, swagger up and say hire me for £50k and I will save you at least a quarter of a million. Everything about him was annoying so told him to jog on. At the end of the project he could honestly say that was his worse decision in the whole process.Pross said:
Very sensible. I look at half the morons on Grand Designs and wonder how they manage to keep a contractor let alone get the job finished (plus notice how they always exceed their budget significantly, they could probably spend that on professionals and get the job done to the original construction cost with far less persoanl stress).First.Aspect said:
Given that I'm working evenings and a few weekends at the moment already, I've gone with a one stop shop, with an architect and project management included. I guess I've got to the point where that's the trade off for the stress of the job that pays for it. Great. A loose loose situation.rjsterry said:
Would echo the bit in bold. Even on a small domestic project, it could easily swallow a day or two per week of your time if you are hiring and managing all the labour directly and supplying all materials.david37 said:the best way to make small building projects like this much much cheaper AND improve quality is to manage them yourself and be prepared to be on site and get dirty tired and fed up.
buy some proper project management software and bang everything into it. your frazzled brain will thank you for it.
ive saved hundreds of thousands of pounds over the years by doing that and running a fair but tight ship. it's probably stating the bleeding obvious but here are some of the things that work for me
Places to save
1 Skips.... make sure theyre filled properly. @c300 for an 8 yard skip they can mount up quickly
2 shop around for a site toilet
3 get a trade account at your local independent builders merchant. for discount.
4 dont buy cheap tools
5 make sure day rate labour is directed clearly and you have alternatives for them to do when there is an issue with something else. censored breaks are when and if the job permits it. dont finish half an hour early if there's a small job that can be done that gets you ahead tomorrow. eg sealing walls for tomorrows plastering.
6 be fair but not a push over with labour, they appreciate it and you dont get messed about
7 dont be afraid to bin lazy scrot bags that make a mess or dont care or get bolshy. they disrupt everyone on site and are just not worth the hassle
8 a massive bag of chocolate bars is cheap and motivating
9 dont pay for price based jobs such as electrical work or plumbing or heating until youve had a chance to spot any faults. it keeps the supplier keen to come back and rectify.
10 never hire a mumbler. Ever
11. Health and safety. if some div blinds himself with brick dust because hes not wearing eye protection your whole day or week will be wasted. likewise crushed toes. be prepared to supply ppe to cheaper day rate workers. and make sure the silly gits use it
12 Materials. bricklayers will happily open a bag pf cement down the middle for one spade full. make it clear that preserving materials is important. likewise buckets will get chucked instead of cleaned, cement mixers wheelbarrows spades and shovels all need cleaning at the end of the day
13 mix stuff even if in a bucket on a large board not on the drive. again people dont care about your drive, they just wont think about it
14 dont skimp on paints and other chemical stuff
do give yourself a break and treat it like a job. i.e. its not good practice to work for 15 hours a day over the weekend and bank holidays.
15 you dont kneed to know how to do everything, you just need to know what you want done.
get stuck in its hard work but achievable, even when you and the family are living there in the dust and horror of it all.
Some of the savings need to be considered against your own lost earnings.
At a larger level, you need someone with PI cover advising you and a reliable contractor that wraps the cost of everything. Ideally, you can demonstrate costs in the event of a delay, so they can be included as LDs in the contract. None of it is easy.
2 -
Could be worse, you could have been the owners who put the extension up in the first place.shirley_basso said:Turns out noone (unless TwistyTrees can disagree) we will never get a mortgage on it, despite how minimal the work is.
I may be able to borrow the money to buy it in cash but doesn't seem like a sensible idea.
Gutted and relieved.
Thanks all for your help and sharing your experience.1 -
That person has passed away and it's owned by a housing association.0
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Oh. Um. Er, you haven't died?shirley_basso said:That person has passed away and it's owned by a housing association.
Think you dodged a bullet tbh. Although I get you invest hopes and wotnot.0 -
Better that than kidding yourself a ten minute call to the foreman every other day will cover it.First.Aspect said:
Given that I'm working evenings and a few weekends at the moment already, I've gone with a one stop shop, with an architect and project management included. I guess I've got to the point where that's the trade off for the stress of the job that pays for it. Great. A loose loose situation.rjsterry said:
Would echo the bit in bold. Even on a small domestic project, it could easily swallow a day or two per week of your time if you are hiring and managing all the labour directly and supplying all materials.david37 said:the best way to make small building projects like this much much cheaper AND improve quality is to manage them yourself and be prepared to be on site and get dirty tired and fed up.
buy some proper project management software and bang everything into it. your frazzled brain will thank you for it.
ive saved hundreds of thousands of pounds over the years by doing that and running a fair but tight ship. it's probably stating the bleeding obvious but here are some of the things that work for me
Places to save
1 Skips.... make sure theyre filled properly. @c300 for an 8 yard skip they can mount up quickly
2 shop around for a site toilet
3 get a trade account at your local independent builders merchant. for discount.
4 dont buy cheap tools
5 make sure day rate labour is directed clearly and you have alternatives for them to do when there is an issue with something else. censored breaks are when and if the job permits it. dont finish half an hour early if there's a small job that can be done that gets you ahead tomorrow. eg sealing walls for tomorrows plastering.
6 be fair but not a push over with labour, they appreciate it and you dont get messed about
7 dont be afraid to bin lazy scrot bags that make a mess or dont care or get bolshy. they disrupt everyone on site and are just not worth the hassle
8 a massive bag of chocolate bars is cheap and motivating
9 dont pay for price based jobs such as electrical work or plumbing or heating until youve had a chance to spot any faults. it keeps the supplier keen to come back and rectify.
10 never hire a mumbler. Ever
11. Health and safety. if some div blinds himself with brick dust because hes not wearing eye protection your whole day or week will be wasted. likewise crushed toes. be prepared to supply ppe to cheaper day rate workers. and make sure the silly gits use it
12 Materials. bricklayers will happily open a bag pf cement down the middle for one spade full. make it clear that preserving materials is important. likewise buckets will get chucked instead of cleaned, cement mixers wheelbarrows spades and shovels all need cleaning at the end of the day
13 mix stuff even if in a bucket on a large board not on the drive. again people dont care about your drive, they just wont think about it
14 dont skimp on paints and other chemical stuff
do give yourself a break and treat it like a job. i.e. its not good practice to work for 15 hours a day over the weekend and bank holidays.
15 you dont kneed to know how to do everything, you just need to know what you want done.
get stuck in its hard work but achievable, even when you and the family are living there in the dust and horror of it all.
Some of the savings need to be considered against your own lost earnings.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition1 -
I think so. Besides, I wouldn't want to work for me and I couldn't see it ending well.rjsterry said:
Better that than kidding yourself a ten minute call to the foreman every other day will cover it.First.Aspect said:
Given that I'm working evenings and a few weekends at the moment already, I've gone with a one stop shop, with an architect and project management included. I guess I've got to the point where that's the trade off for the stress of the job that pays for it. Great. A loose loose situation.rjsterry said:
Would echo the bit in bold. Even on a small domestic project, it could easily swallow a day or two per week of your time if you are hiring and managing all the labour directly and supplying all materials.david37 said:the best way to make small building projects like this much much cheaper AND improve quality is to manage them yourself and be prepared to be on site and get dirty tired and fed up.
buy some proper project management software and bang everything into it. your frazzled brain will thank you for it.
ive saved hundreds of thousands of pounds over the years by doing that and running a fair but tight ship. it's probably stating the bleeding obvious but here are some of the things that work for me
Places to save
1 Skips.... make sure theyre filled properly. @c300 for an 8 yard skip they can mount up quickly
2 shop around for a site toilet
3 get a trade account at your local independent builders merchant. for discount.
4 dont buy cheap tools
5 make sure day rate labour is directed clearly and you have alternatives for them to do when there is an issue with something else. censored breaks are when and if the job permits it. dont finish half an hour early if there's a small job that can be done that gets you ahead tomorrow. eg sealing walls for tomorrows plastering.
6 be fair but not a push over with labour, they appreciate it and you dont get messed about
7 dont be afraid to bin lazy scrot bags that make a mess or dont care or get bolshy. they disrupt everyone on site and are just not worth the hassle
8 a massive bag of chocolate bars is cheap and motivating
9 dont pay for price based jobs such as electrical work or plumbing or heating until youve had a chance to spot any faults. it keeps the supplier keen to come back and rectify.
10 never hire a mumbler. Ever
11. Health and safety. if some div blinds himself with brick dust because hes not wearing eye protection your whole day or week will be wasted. likewise crushed toes. be prepared to supply ppe to cheaper day rate workers. and make sure the silly gits use it
12 Materials. bricklayers will happily open a bag pf cement down the middle for one spade full. make it clear that preserving materials is important. likewise buckets will get chucked instead of cleaned, cement mixers wheelbarrows spades and shovels all need cleaning at the end of the day
13 mix stuff even if in a bucket on a large board not on the drive. again people dont care about your drive, they just wont think about it
14 dont skimp on paints and other chemical stuff
do give yourself a break and treat it like a job. i.e. its not good practice to work for 15 hours a day over the weekend and bank holidays.
15 you dont kneed to know how to do everything, you just need to know what you want done.
get stuck in its hard work but achievable, even when you and the family are living there in the dust and horror of it all.
Some of the savings need to be considered against your own lost earnings.0 -
That's a shame. Still: there will be others.shirley_basso said:Turns out noone (unless TwistyTrees can disagree) we will never get a mortgage on it, despite how minimal the work is.
I may be able to borrow the money to buy it in cash but doesn't seem like a sensible idea.
Gutted and relieved.
Thanks all for your help and sharing your experience.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Amen.TheBigBean said:
In the end it comes down to trust. He might just have been out of pocket by another £50k.surrey_commuter said:
A mate doing a grand renovation had a flash QS pull up in an open top Boxter, swagger up and say hire me for £50k and I will save you at least a quarter of a million. Everything about him was annoying so told him to jog on. At the end of the project he could honestly say that was his worse decision in the whole process.Pross said:
Very sensible. I look at half the morons on Grand Designs and wonder how they manage to keep a contractor let alone get the job finished (plus notice how they always exceed their budget significantly, they could probably spend that on professionals and get the job done to the original construction cost with far less persoanl stress).First.Aspect said:
Given that I'm working evenings and a few weekends at the moment already, I've gone with a one stop shop, with an architect and project management included. I guess I've got to the point where that's the trade off for the stress of the job that pays for it. Great. A loose loose situation.rjsterry said:
Would echo the bit in bold. Even on a small domestic project, it could easily swallow a day or two per week of your time if you are hiring and managing all the labour directly and supplying all materials.david37 said:the best way to make small building projects like this much much cheaper AND improve quality is to manage them yourself and be prepared to be on site and get dirty tired and fed up.
buy some proper project management software and bang everything into it. your frazzled brain will thank you for it.
ive saved hundreds of thousands of pounds over the years by doing that and running a fair but tight ship. it's probably stating the bleeding obvious but here are some of the things that work for me
Places to save
1 Skips.... make sure theyre filled properly. @c300 for an 8 yard skip they can mount up quickly
2 shop around for a site toilet
3 get a trade account at your local independent builders merchant. for discount.
4 dont buy cheap tools
5 make sure day rate labour is directed clearly and you have alternatives for them to do when there is an issue with something else. censored breaks are when and if the job permits it. dont finish half an hour early if there's a small job that can be done that gets you ahead tomorrow. eg sealing walls for tomorrows plastering.
6 be fair but not a push over with labour, they appreciate it and you dont get messed about
7 dont be afraid to bin lazy scrot bags that make a mess or dont care or get bolshy. they disrupt everyone on site and are just not worth the hassle
8 a massive bag of chocolate bars is cheap and motivating
9 dont pay for price based jobs such as electrical work or plumbing or heating until youve had a chance to spot any faults. it keeps the supplier keen to come back and rectify.
10 never hire a mumbler. Ever
11. Health and safety. if some div blinds himself with brick dust because hes not wearing eye protection your whole day or week will be wasted. likewise crushed toes. be prepared to supply ppe to cheaper day rate workers. and make sure the silly gits use it
12 Materials. bricklayers will happily open a bag pf cement down the middle for one spade full. make it clear that preserving materials is important. likewise buckets will get chucked instead of cleaned, cement mixers wheelbarrows spades and shovels all need cleaning at the end of the day
13 mix stuff even if in a bucket on a large board not on the drive. again people dont care about your drive, they just wont think about it
14 dont skimp on paints and other chemical stuff
do give yourself a break and treat it like a job. i.e. its not good practice to work for 15 hours a day over the weekend and bank holidays.
15 you dont kneed to know how to do everything, you just need to know what you want done.
get stuck in its hard work but achievable, even when you and the family are living there in the dust and horror of it all.
Some of the savings need to be considered against your own lost earnings.
At a larger level, you need someone with PI cover advising you and a reliable contractor that wraps the cost of everything. Ideally, you can demonstrate costs in the event of a delay, so they can be included as LDs in the contract. None of it is easy.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
This. The amount of time I had to spend just keeping an eye on the guys converting my under stairs cupboard into a loo was crazy. Had to really keep an eye on what they delivered against the quote also.rjsterry said:
Better that than kidding yourself a ten minute call to the foreman every other day will cover it.First.Aspect said:
Given that I'm working evenings and a few weekends at the moment already, I've gone with a one stop shop, with an architect and project management included. I guess I've got to the point where that's the trade off for the stress of the job that pays for it. Great. A loose loose situation.rjsterry said:
Would echo the bit in bold. Even on a small domestic project, it could easily swallow a day or two per week of your time if you are hiring and managing all the labour directly and supplying all materials.david37 said:the best way to make small building projects like this much much cheaper AND improve quality is to manage them yourself and be prepared to be on site and get dirty tired and fed up.
buy some proper project management software and bang everything into it. your frazzled brain will thank you for it.
ive saved hundreds of thousands of pounds over the years by doing that and running a fair but tight ship. it's probably stating the bleeding obvious but here are some of the things that work for me
Places to save
1 Skips.... make sure theyre filled properly. @c300 for an 8 yard skip they can mount up quickly
2 shop around for a site toilet
3 get a trade account at your local independent builders merchant. for discount.
4 dont buy cheap tools
5 make sure day rate labour is directed clearly and you have alternatives for them to do when there is an issue with something else. censored breaks are when and if the job permits it. dont finish half an hour early if there's a small job that can be done that gets you ahead tomorrow. eg sealing walls for tomorrows plastering.
6 be fair but not a push over with labour, they appreciate it and you dont get messed about
7 dont be afraid to bin lazy scrot bags that make a mess or dont care or get bolshy. they disrupt everyone on site and are just not worth the hassle
8 a massive bag of chocolate bars is cheap and motivating
9 dont pay for price based jobs such as electrical work or plumbing or heating until youve had a chance to spot any faults. it keeps the supplier keen to come back and rectify.
10 never hire a mumbler. Ever
11. Health and safety. if some div blinds himself with brick dust because hes not wearing eye protection your whole day or week will be wasted. likewise crushed toes. be prepared to supply ppe to cheaper day rate workers. and make sure the silly gits use it
12 Materials. bricklayers will happily open a bag pf cement down the middle for one spade full. make it clear that preserving materials is important. likewise buckets will get chucked instead of cleaned, cement mixers wheelbarrows spades and shovels all need cleaning at the end of the day
13 mix stuff even if in a bucket on a large board not on the drive. again people dont care about your drive, they just wont think about it
14 dont skimp on paints and other chemical stuff
do give yourself a break and treat it like a job. i.e. its not good practice to work for 15 hours a day over the weekend and bank holidays.
15 you dont kneed to know how to do everything, you just need to know what you want done.
get stuck in its hard work but achievable, even when you and the family are living there in the dust and horror of it all.
Some of the savings need to be considered against your own lost earnings.
Had to chase them about when they would turn up and to get them for waste removal which was also quoted for.0 -
thats what the loo is forelbowloh said:
This. The amount of time I had to spend just keeping an eye on the guys converting my under stairs cupboard into a loo was crazy. Had to really keep an eye on what they delivered against the quote also.rjsterry said:
Better that than kidding yourself a ten minute call to the foreman every other day will cover it.First.Aspect said:
Given that I'm working evenings and a few weekends at the moment already, I've gone with a one stop shop, with an architect and project management included. I guess I've got to the point where that's the trade off for the stress of the job that pays for it. Great. A loose loose situation.rjsterry said:
Would echo the bit in bold. Even on a small domestic project, it could easily swallow a day or two per week of your time if you are hiring and managing all the labour directly and supplying all materials.david37 said:the best way to make small building projects like this much much cheaper AND improve quality is to manage them yourself and be prepared to be on site and get dirty tired and fed up.
buy some proper project management software and bang everything into it. your frazzled brain will thank you for it.
ive saved hundreds of thousands of pounds over the years by doing that and running a fair but tight ship. it's probably stating the bleeding obvious but here are some of the things that work for me
Places to save
1 Skips.... make sure theyre filled properly. @c300 for an 8 yard skip they can mount up quickly
2 shop around for a site toilet
3 get a trade account at your local independent builders merchant. for discount.
4 dont buy cheap tools
5 make sure day rate labour is directed clearly and you have alternatives for them to do when there is an issue with something else. censored breaks are when and if the job permits it. dont finish half an hour early if there's a small job that can be done that gets you ahead tomorrow. eg sealing walls for tomorrows plastering.
6 be fair but not a push over with labour, they appreciate it and you dont get messed about
7 dont be afraid to bin lazy scrot bags that make a mess or dont care or get bolshy. they disrupt everyone on site and are just not worth the hassle
8 a massive bag of chocolate bars is cheap and motivating
9 dont pay for price based jobs such as electrical work or plumbing or heating until youve had a chance to spot any faults. it keeps the supplier keen to come back and rectify.
10 never hire a mumbler. Ever
11. Health and safety. if some div blinds himself with brick dust because hes not wearing eye protection your whole day or week will be wasted. likewise crushed toes. be prepared to supply ppe to cheaper day rate workers. and make sure the silly gits use it
12 Materials. bricklayers will happily open a bag pf cement down the middle for one spade full. make it clear that preserving materials is important. likewise buckets will get chucked instead of cleaned, cement mixers wheelbarrows spades and shovels all need cleaning at the end of the day
13 mix stuff even if in a bucket on a large board not on the drive. again people dont care about your drive, they just wont think about it
14 dont skimp on paints and other chemical stuff
do give yourself a break and treat it like a job. i.e. its not good practice to work for 15 hours a day over the weekend and bank holidays.
15 you dont kneed to know how to do everything, you just need to know what you want done.
get stuck in its hard work but achievable, even when you and the family are living there in the dust and horror of it all.
Some of the savings need to be considered against your own lost earnings.
Had to chase them about when they would turn up and to get them for waste removal which was also quoted for.0