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Buying a house with subsidence

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  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 4,385

    Why is your property not selling? Is it dull and boring and like any other property in your area?
    Sometimes inexpensive updates can make it stand out from all the other houses with beige carpets, plastic windows, Ikea kitchens and white walls

    Don't know. It's actually not bad.

    Small Victorian terrace flat, upper ground floor with a garden.

    South facing, not on a main road and has Juliette balcony

    I think we just paid far too much for it, sadly.
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 6,091
    Buy the land, knock it down, build a Huf Haus. Huf Haus weighs less than a cargo bike. Subsidence not an issue.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,122
    flats are out of fashion because of Covid. Wait a couple of years, people will forget about outdoor space
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 19,756

    Buy the land, knock it down, build a Huf Haus. Huf Haus weighs less than a cargo bike. Subsidence not an issue.

    🤦🏻‍♂️
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • pinkbikinipinkbikini Posts: 744

    Buy the land, knock it down, build a Huf Haus. Huf Haus weighs less than a cargo bike. Subsidence not an issue.

    Oh dear!
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 6,091

    Buy the land, knock it down, build a Huf Haus. Huf Haus weighs less than a cargo bike. Subsidence not an issue.

    Oh dear!
    Is it the Huf Haus or the baseless assertion that it is a miracle cure for subsidence thst you are objecting to?
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 6,091
    rjsterry said:

    Buy the land, knock it down, build a Huf Haus. Huf Haus weighs less than a cargo bike. Subsidence not an issue.

    🤦🏻‍♂️
    Ditto.
  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 4,385
    edited 17 April
    As we walked out a developer arrived.

    I think the subsidence is due to a poorly built kitchen extension.

    The vendors have already rejected an offer of £20k below asking so we're out.
  • thistle_thistle_ Posts: 5,139

    As we walked out a developer arrived.

    I think the subsidence is due to a poorly built kitchen extension.

    The vendors have already rejected an offer of £20k below asking so we're out.

    If it's only the kitchen extension that's subsiding (quite common with 'outrigger' extensions), then only that part needs fixing. Demolish extension and rebuild.

    But if they've already rejected a lower offer then I think bailing is a good idea. If it's still on the market in 6 months time offer them £30k below :smiley:
  • pinkbikinipinkbikini Posts: 744

    Buy the land, knock it down, build a Huf Haus. Huf Haus weighs less than a cargo bike. Subsidence not an issue.

    Oh dear!
    Is it the Huf Haus or the baseless assertion that it is a miracle cure for subsidence thst you are objecting to?
    Oh, not objecting to the Huf Haus - I think they look good (I remember the Grand Design years ago and Kevin McCloud marvelling at the engineering efficiency).

    But they’re still built on foundations, so irrespective of house weight they can still subside.
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 6,091

    Buy the land, knock it down, build a Huf Haus. Huf Haus weighs less than a cargo bike. Subsidence not an issue.

    Oh dear!
    Is it the Huf Haus or the baseless assertion that it is a miracle cure for subsidence thst you are objecting to?
    Oh, not objecting to the Huf Haus - I think they look good (I remember the Grand Design years ago and Kevin McCloud marvelling at the engineering efficiency).

    But they’re still built on foundations, so irrespective of house weight they can still subside.
    They built the first castle on a swamp, etc.
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 19,756

    rjsterry said:

    Buy the land, knock it down, build a Huf Haus. Huf Haus weighs less than a cargo bike. Subsidence not an issue.

    🤦🏻‍♂️
    Ditto.
    Both. But I assumed that was the point 🙂
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 19,756

    As we walked out a developer arrived.

    I think the subsidence is due to a poorly built kitchen extension.

    The vendors have already rejected an offer of £20k below asking so we're out.

    The developer will be more ruthless than you, but will have cash. Ah well. It was a fun idea.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 4,385
    thistle_ said:

    As we walked out a developer arrived.

    I think the subsidence is due to a poorly built kitchen extension.

    The vendors have already rejected an offer of £20k below asking so we're out.

    If it's only the kitchen extension that's subsiding (quite common with 'outrigger' extensions), then only that part needs fixing. Demolish extension and rebuild.

    But if they've already rejected a lower offer then I think bailing is a good idea. If it's still on the market in 6 months time offer them £30k below :smiley:
    Exactly. Needed to be a £450K cash buyer. Sadly not me. Plus ideally you could do the work yourself to make it worthwhile.

  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 5,599

    Buy the land, knock it down, build a Huf Haus. Huf Haus weighs less than a cargo bike. Subsidence not an issue.

    Oh dear!
    Is it the Huf Haus or the baseless assertion that it is a miracle cure for subsidence thst you are objecting to?
    Oh, not objecting to the Huf Haus - I think they look good (I remember the Grand Design years ago and Kevin McCloud marvelling at the engineering efficiency).

    But they’re still built on foundations, so irrespective of house weight they can still subside.
    They built the first castle on a swamp, etc.
    Nah, tuat

    Buy the land, knock it down, build a Huf Haus. Huf Haus weighs less than a cargo bike. Subsidence not an issue.

    Oh dear!
    Is it the Huf Haus or the baseless assertion that it is a miracle cure for subsidence thst you are objecting to?
    Oh, not objecting to the Huf Haus - I think they look good (I remember the Grand Design years ago and Kevin McCloud marvelling at the engineering efficiency).

    But they’re still built on foundations, so irrespective of house weight they can still subside.
    They built the first castle on a swamp, etc.
    Nah, that was Shrek
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame ??
    Tall....
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,122

    thistle_ said:

    As we walked out a developer arrived.

    I think the subsidence is due to a poorly built kitchen extension.

    The vendors have already rejected an offer of £20k below asking so we're out.

    If it's only the kitchen extension that's subsiding (quite common with 'outrigger' extensions), then only that part needs fixing. Demolish extension and rebuild.

    But if they've already rejected a lower offer then I think bailing is a good idea. If it's still on the market in 6 months time offer them £30k below :smiley:
    Exactly. Needed to be a £450K cash buyer. Sadly not me. Plus ideally you could do the work yourself to make it worthwhile.

    Wow... and that's me thinking that you were after a 200k bargain... for that kind of money you should be able to buy a house that's not falling apart...
  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 4,385
    Well it depends where you're looking, doesn't it. Also It's not falling apart. Just the rubbish kitchen extension is falling down.

    Could easily be a 600k house once all the work is done but would probably cost about 100-150 to do so not worth it.
  • Ben6899Ben6899 Posts: 8,552

    Buy the land, knock it down, build a Huf Haus. Huf Haus weighs less than a cargo bike. Subsidence not an issue.

    Oh dear!
    Is it the Huf Haus or the baseless assertion that it is a miracle cure for subsidence thst you are objecting to?
    Oh, not objecting to the Huf Haus - I think they look good (I remember the Grand Design years ago and Kevin McCloud marvelling at the engineering efficiency).

    But they’re still built on foundations, so irrespective of house weight they can still subside.
    They built the first castle on a swamp, etc.

    Mexico City is built on a lake.
    Ben

    Bikes: Donhou DSS4 Custom | Condor Italia RC | Gios Megalite | Dolan Preffisio | Giant Bowery '76
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  • nibnob21nibnob21 Posts: 207
    Jakarta is sinking.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,122

    Well it depends where you're looking, doesn't it. Also It's not falling apart. Just the rubbish kitchen extension is falling down.

    Could easily be a 600k house once all the work is done but would probably cost about 100-150 to do so not worth it.

    That's the thing, we sold a studio flat in Croydon in 2016 for 209k, then we find out that 6 months later it was sold again for 290k, but the buyer was a builder and probably spent 10 grand to do work that we would have paid 50k...
  • david37david37 Posts: 1,313

    The work has not been done - it needs doing. Estate agent has said so.

    Ok so all banks will instruct a surveyor to carry out a mortgage valuation.
    The surveyor will want a structural engineers report to determine what needs doing.
    If structural work is required, most banks will want the work completed before they will lend.

    Has the owner had a report carried out or is the estate agent guessing?
    From what you have said I don’t see you getting a mortgage or buildings insurance.
    Thanks Tricky. I think you're right and I understand the reason it hasn't sold is because of inability to get a mortgage. I'm keen to find a way to make it work and cheaply.
    wait for it to go to aution offer cash very slightly above the land value. Demolish building and stabilise earth rebuild sorted.
  • yorkshirerawyorkshireraw Posts: 1,442

    Well it depends where you're looking, doesn't it. Also It's not falling apart. Just the rubbish kitchen extension is falling down.

    Could easily be a 600k house once all the work is done but would probably cost about 100-150 to do so not worth it.

    That's the thing, we sold a studio flat in Croydon in 2016 for 209k, then we find out that 6 months later it was sold again for 290k, but the buyer was a builder and probably spent 10 grand to do work that we would have paid 50k...
    How much work can you do to a studio flat? What age was it?

    Be interesting hear down the line if the property sells S_B, and what it goes for. Property is only ever worth what a buyer is willing to pay (sounds obvious, but so many people over-value what they are selling based on their own circs, not the buyers).
  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 4,385
    The property will likely only sell for the asking price (£450k) as it's owned by a housing association and they rejected an offer at £430. They aren't stupid and not in a rush to sell.

    My guess is that a builder will buy it, steady the wall, sort the interior and sell. I think the real upside is if you can do the work yourself, which I can't.

    Shame, really.
  • david37david37 Posts: 1,313

    The property will likely only sell for the asking price (£450k) as it's owned by a housing association and they rejected an offer at £430. They aren't stupid and not in a rush to sell.

    My guess is that a builder will buy it, steady the wall, sort the interior and sell. I think the real upside is if you can do the work yourself, which I can't.

    Shame, really.

    the thing with projects like that if your doing them yourselves is theyre all consuming and your cycling will suffer.
  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 4,385
    So the house is quite small and so the current price works out at about £6k / sqm.

    Building a 2 storey extension will cost about £2k/sqm (is that right?)

    There's an offer on at £440 which if we can match, we will get the gig. Other buyer is in a chain and we aren't.

    Going to speak to the mortgage advisor tomorrow about this subsidence issue, which is nowhere near as bad as it originally seemed. It turns out the sh!tty extension cracked because of an underground pipe issue which is now resolved. Full underpinning quote is £5k inc VAT.

    Most important thing for me is: if we knock down the offending wall and build new foundations and a 2 story extension - does that make the history of subsidence go away and accompanying downward valuation.
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 19,756

    So the house is quite small and so the current price works out at about £6k / sqm.

    Building a 2 storey extension will cost about £2k/sqm (is that right?)

    There's an offer on at £440 which if we can match, we will get the gig. Other buyer is in a chain and we aren't.

    Going to speak to the mortgage advisor tomorrow about this subsidence issue, which is nowhere near as bad as it originally seemed. It turns out the sh!tty extension cracked because of an underground pipe issue which is now resolved. Full underpinning quote is £5k inc VAT.

    Most important thing for me is: if we knock down the offending wall and build new foundations and a 2 story extension - does that make the history of subsidence go away and accompanying downward valuation.

    I would think that if you have all the works thoroughly documented, then this should reassure any prospective buyers, but whether that applies to lenders, I don't know. Budget for the extension sounds realistic depending on what you are going to put in it.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 6,091
    £2k a sq.m sounds v.low to me.
  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 4,385

    £2k a sq.m sounds v.low to me.

    I really don't know. A quick google said £1,500 - £2,500 psm for a 2 story so i took the midpoint as it won't be a 'grand design' - will be done to a budget to be long lasting and 'classic' rather than modern and timeless.

    Google suggested a bit more, around £2k-3K in central london.

    House has side access so not too much faffing to get into the garden.

    All the above said - that price did exclude interior / decorative works.
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 6,091
    I think I'm being quoted more like 3 at the moment, possibly a bit more. For context, access is a bit difficult and we are going to need slate roof, a fair bit of glass and some external materials that will be sympathetic to the existing sand stone. There is also demolition (we are replacing a comedy conservatory that functions as a warming oven) and design costs.

    Another family member is looking to build a single storey across the back of his house. Just a bog standard 3 bed semi in the SE at the moment, building over a patio, nothing fancy. Possibly 30 sqm at the very most and even he is looking at £50-60k.

    My limited experience is that the numbers you see online are for something thrown up with breeze blocks on a straightforward site, with PVC windows.
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 13,578
    I think a cracked pipe will make the problem of subsidence go away, ie will not affect future valuations. Beware the same pipe making your plans more complicated/expensive.

    In your first post you described it as fantastic potential in a great location, you should ask yourself why nobody else can see this as I would expect a dozen people to be fighting for it.
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