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Buying a house with subsidence

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  • thistle_thistle_ Posts: 5,282

    In your first post you described it as fantastic potential in a great location, you should ask yourself why nobody else can see this as I would expect a dozen people to be fighting for it.

    People on internet forums telling them to stay well away :smile:
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 20,144

    I think I'm being quoted more like 3 at the moment, possibly a bit more. For context, access is a bit difficult and we are going to need slate roof, a fair bit of glass and some external materials that will be sympathetic to the existing sand stone. There is also demolition (we are replacing a comedy conservatory that functions as a warming oven) and design costs.

    Another family member is looking to build a single storey across the back of his house. Just a bog standard 3 bed semi in the SE at the moment, building over a patio, nothing fancy. Possibly 30 sqm at the very most and even he is looking at £50-60k.

    My limited experience is that the numbers you see online are for something thrown up with breeze blocks on a straightforward site, with PVC windows.

    Yes, you can easily spend more than this and £3k/m2 is not unusual. It depends what you want. Just in case it's not obvious, when calculating the floor area you need to count both floors.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 4,445
    Yep - I did double to count both floors (although perhaps I was optimistically hoping it was including both!)

    I guess we shall see what the costs come to - I have a friendly builder who can price it up for me (based on purely observing, rather than actually proper analysis).
  • david37david37 Posts: 1,313
    the best way to make small building projects like this much much cheaper AND improve quality is to manage them yourself and be prepared to be on site and get dirty tired and fed up.

    buy some proper project management software and bang everything into it. your frazzled brain will thank you for it.

    ive saved hundreds of thousands of pounds over the years by doing that and running a fair but tight ship. it's probably stating the bleeding obvious but here are some of the things that work for me

    Places to save
    1 Skips.... make sure theyre filled properly. @c300 for an 8 yard skip they can mount up quickly
    2 shop around for a site toilet
    3 get a trade account at your local independent builders merchant. for discount.
    4 dont buy cheap tools
    5 make sure day rate labour is directed clearly and you have alternatives for them to do when there is an issue with something else. censored breaks are when and if the job permits it. dont finish half an hour early if there's a small job that can be done that gets you ahead tomorrow. eg sealing walls for tomorrows plastering.
    6 be fair but not a push over with labour, they appreciate it and you dont get messed about
    7 dont be afraid to bin lazy scrot bags that make a mess or dont care or get bolshy. they disrupt everyone on site and are just not worth the hassle
    8 a massive bag of chocolate bars is cheap and motivating
    9 dont pay for price based jobs such as electrical work or plumbing or heating until youve had a chance to spot any faults. it keeps the supplier keen to come back and rectify.
    10 never hire a mumbler. Ever
    11. Health and safety. if some div blinds himself with brick dust because hes not wearing eye protection your whole day or week will be wasted. likewise crushed toes. be prepared to supply ppe to cheaper day rate workers. and make sure the silly gits use it
    12 Materials. bricklayers will happily open a bag pf cement down the middle for one spade full. make it clear that preserving materials is important. likewise buckets will get chucked instead of cleaned, cement mixers wheelbarrows spades and shovels all need cleaning at the end of the day
    13 mix stuff even if in a bucket on a large board not on the drive. again people dont care about your drive, they just wont think about it
    14 dont skimp on paints and other chemical stuff

    do give yourself a break and treat it like a job. i.e. its not good practice to work for 15 hours a day over the weekend and bank holidays.

    15 you dont kneed to know how to do everything, you just need to know what you want done.

    get stuck in its hard work but achievable, even when you and the family are living there in the dust and horror of it all.
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 20,144
    david37 said:

    the best way to make small building projects like this much much cheaper AND improve quality is to manage them yourself and be prepared to be on site and get dirty tired and fed up.

    buy some proper project management software and bang everything into it. your frazzled brain will thank you for it.

    ive saved hundreds of thousands of pounds over the years by doing that and running a fair but tight ship. it's probably stating the bleeding obvious but here are some of the things that work for me

    Places to save
    1 Skips.... make sure theyre filled properly. @c300 for an 8 yard skip they can mount up quickly
    2 shop around for a site toilet
    3 get a trade account at your local independent builders merchant. for discount.
    4 dont buy cheap tools
    5 make sure day rate labour is directed clearly and you have alternatives for them to do when there is an issue with something else. censored breaks are when and if the job permits it. dont finish half an hour early if there's a small job that can be done that gets you ahead tomorrow. eg sealing walls for tomorrows plastering.
    6 be fair but not a push over with labour, they appreciate it and you dont get messed about
    7 dont be afraid to bin lazy scrot bags that make a mess or dont care or get bolshy. they disrupt everyone on site and are just not worth the hassle
    8 a massive bag of chocolate bars is cheap and motivating
    9 dont pay for price based jobs such as electrical work or plumbing or heating until youve had a chance to spot any faults. it keeps the supplier keen to come back and rectify.
    10 never hire a mumbler. Ever
    11. Health and safety. if some div blinds himself with brick dust because hes not wearing eye protection your whole day or week will be wasted. likewise crushed toes. be prepared to supply ppe to cheaper day rate workers. and make sure the silly gits use it
    12 Materials. bricklayers will happily open a bag pf cement down the middle for one spade full. make it clear that preserving materials is important. likewise buckets will get chucked instead of cleaned, cement mixers wheelbarrows spades and shovels all need cleaning at the end of the day
    13 mix stuff even if in a bucket on a large board not on the drive. again people dont care about your drive, they just wont think about it
    14 dont skimp on paints and other chemical stuff

    do give yourself a break and treat it like a job. i.e. its not good practice to work for 15 hours a day over the weekend and bank holidays.

    15 you dont kneed to know how to do everything, you just need to know what you want done.

    get stuck in its hard work but achievable, even when you and the family are living there in the dust and horror of it all.

    Would echo the bit in bold. Even on a small domestic project, it could easily swallow a day or two per week of your time if you are hiring and managing all the labour directly and supplying all materials.
    Some of the savings need to be considered against your own lost earnings.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 6,699
    rjsterry said:

    david37 said:

    the best way to make small building projects like this much much cheaper AND improve quality is to manage them yourself and be prepared to be on site and get dirty tired and fed up.

    buy some proper project management software and bang everything into it. your frazzled brain will thank you for it.

    ive saved hundreds of thousands of pounds over the years by doing that and running a fair but tight ship. it's probably stating the bleeding obvious but here are some of the things that work for me

    Places to save
    1 Skips.... make sure theyre filled properly. @c300 for an 8 yard skip they can mount up quickly
    2 shop around for a site toilet
    3 get a trade account at your local independent builders merchant. for discount.
    4 dont buy cheap tools
    5 make sure day rate labour is directed clearly and you have alternatives for them to do when there is an issue with something else. censored breaks are when and if the job permits it. dont finish half an hour early if there's a small job that can be done that gets you ahead tomorrow. eg sealing walls for tomorrows plastering.
    6 be fair but not a push over with labour, they appreciate it and you dont get messed about
    7 dont be afraid to bin lazy scrot bags that make a mess or dont care or get bolshy. they disrupt everyone on site and are just not worth the hassle
    8 a massive bag of chocolate bars is cheap and motivating
    9 dont pay for price based jobs such as electrical work or plumbing or heating until youve had a chance to spot any faults. it keeps the supplier keen to come back and rectify.
    10 never hire a mumbler. Ever
    11. Health and safety. if some div blinds himself with brick dust because hes not wearing eye protection your whole day or week will be wasted. likewise crushed toes. be prepared to supply ppe to cheaper day rate workers. and make sure the silly gits use it
    12 Materials. bricklayers will happily open a bag pf cement down the middle for one spade full. make it clear that preserving materials is important. likewise buckets will get chucked instead of cleaned, cement mixers wheelbarrows spades and shovels all need cleaning at the end of the day
    13 mix stuff even if in a bucket on a large board not on the drive. again people dont care about your drive, they just wont think about it
    14 dont skimp on paints and other chemical stuff

    do give yourself a break and treat it like a job. i.e. its not good practice to work for 15 hours a day over the weekend and bank holidays.

    15 you dont kneed to know how to do everything, you just need to know what you want done.

    get stuck in its hard work but achievable, even when you and the family are living there in the dust and horror of it all.

    Would echo the bit in bold. Even on a small domestic project, it could easily swallow a day or two per week of your time if you are hiring and managing all the labour directly and supplying all materials.
    Some of the savings need to be considered against your own lost earnings.
    Given that I'm working evenings and a few weekends at the moment already, I've gone with a one stop shop, with an architect and project management included. I guess I've got to the point where that's the trade off for the stress of the job that pays for it. Great. A loose loose situation.
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 13,962

    rjsterry said:

    david37 said:

    the best way to make small building projects like this much much cheaper AND improve quality is to manage them yourself and be prepared to be on site and get dirty tired and fed up.

    buy some proper project management software and bang everything into it. your frazzled brain will thank you for it.

    ive saved hundreds of thousands of pounds over the years by doing that and running a fair but tight ship. it's probably stating the bleeding obvious but here are some of the things that work for me

    Places to save
    1 Skips.... make sure theyre filled properly. @c300 for an 8 yard skip they can mount up quickly
    2 shop around for a site toilet
    3 get a trade account at your local independent builders merchant. for discount.
    4 dont buy cheap tools
    5 make sure day rate labour is directed clearly and you have alternatives for them to do when there is an issue with something else. censored breaks are when and if the job permits it. dont finish half an hour early if there's a small job that can be done that gets you ahead tomorrow. eg sealing walls for tomorrows plastering.
    6 be fair but not a push over with labour, they appreciate it and you dont get messed about
    7 dont be afraid to bin lazy scrot bags that make a mess or dont care or get bolshy. they disrupt everyone on site and are just not worth the hassle
    8 a massive bag of chocolate bars is cheap and motivating
    9 dont pay for price based jobs such as electrical work or plumbing or heating until youve had a chance to spot any faults. it keeps the supplier keen to come back and rectify.
    10 never hire a mumbler. Ever
    11. Health and safety. if some div blinds himself with brick dust because hes not wearing eye protection your whole day or week will be wasted. likewise crushed toes. be prepared to supply ppe to cheaper day rate workers. and make sure the silly gits use it
    12 Materials. bricklayers will happily open a bag pf cement down the middle for one spade full. make it clear that preserving materials is important. likewise buckets will get chucked instead of cleaned, cement mixers wheelbarrows spades and shovels all need cleaning at the end of the day
    13 mix stuff even if in a bucket on a large board not on the drive. again people dont care about your drive, they just wont think about it
    14 dont skimp on paints and other chemical stuff

    do give yourself a break and treat it like a job. i.e. its not good practice to work for 15 hours a day over the weekend and bank holidays.

    15 you dont kneed to know how to do everything, you just need to know what you want done.

    get stuck in its hard work but achievable, even when you and the family are living there in the dust and horror of it all.

    Would echo the bit in bold. Even on a small domestic project, it could easily swallow a day or two per week of your time if you are hiring and managing all the labour directly and supplying all materials.
    Some of the savings need to be considered against your own lost earnings.
    Given that I'm working evenings and a few weekends at the moment already, I've gone with a one stop shop, with an architect and project management included. I guess I've got to the point where that's the trade off for the stress of the job that pays for it. Great. A loose loose situation.
    I paid the architect to manage the process and did not regret it one bit. Without him I am sure I would have got paranoid about problems that were uncovered as we went along and the bill went up.

    I am good with budgets but it was easy to see how people get in trouble with a 6 month project costing six figures then being presented with dozens of decisions each of which may "only" cost another £500.

    Best advice above is to feed them as they fuel up like cyclists.
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 6,699

    rjsterry said:

    david37 said:

    the best way to make small building projects like this much much cheaper AND improve quality is to manage them yourself and be prepared to be on site and get dirty tired and fed up.

    buy some proper project management software and bang everything into it. your frazzled brain will thank you for it.

    ive saved hundreds of thousands of pounds over the years by doing that and running a fair but tight ship. it's probably stating the bleeding obvious but here are some of the things that work for me

    Places to save
    1 Skips.... make sure theyre filled properly. @c300 for an 8 yard skip they can mount up quickly
    2 shop around for a site toilet
    3 get a trade account at your local independent builders merchant. for discount.
    4 dont buy cheap tools
    5 make sure day rate labour is directed clearly and you have alternatives for them to do when there is an issue with something else. censored breaks are when and if the job permits it. dont finish half an hour early if there's a small job that can be done that gets you ahead tomorrow. eg sealing walls for tomorrows plastering.
    6 be fair but not a push over with labour, they appreciate it and you dont get messed about
    7 dont be afraid to bin lazy scrot bags that make a mess or dont care or get bolshy. they disrupt everyone on site and are just not worth the hassle
    8 a massive bag of chocolate bars is cheap and motivating
    9 dont pay for price based jobs such as electrical work or plumbing or heating until youve had a chance to spot any faults. it keeps the supplier keen to come back and rectify.
    10 never hire a mumbler. Ever
    11. Health and safety. if some div blinds himself with brick dust because hes not wearing eye protection your whole day or week will be wasted. likewise crushed toes. be prepared to supply ppe to cheaper day rate workers. and make sure the silly gits use it
    12 Materials. bricklayers will happily open a bag pf cement down the middle for one spade full. make it clear that preserving materials is important. likewise buckets will get chucked instead of cleaned, cement mixers wheelbarrows spades and shovels all need cleaning at the end of the day
    13 mix stuff even if in a bucket on a large board not on the drive. again people dont care about your drive, they just wont think about it
    14 dont skimp on paints and other chemical stuff

    do give yourself a break and treat it like a job. i.e. its not good practice to work for 15 hours a day over the weekend and bank holidays.

    15 you dont kneed to know how to do everything, you just need to know what you want done.

    get stuck in its hard work but achievable, even when you and the family are living there in the dust and horror of it all.

    Would echo the bit in bold. Even on a small domestic project, it could easily swallow a day or two per week of your time if you are hiring and managing all the labour directly and supplying all materials.
    Some of the savings need to be considered against your own lost earnings.
    Given that I'm working evenings and a few weekends at the moment already, I've gone with a one stop shop, with an architect and project management included. I guess I've got to the point where that's the trade off for the stress of the job that pays for it. Great. A loose loose situation.
    I paid the architect to manage the process and did not regret it one bit. Without him I am sure I would have got paranoid about problems that were uncovered as we went along and the bill went up.

    I am good with budgets but it was easy to see how people get in trouble with a 6 month project costing six figures then being presented with dozens of decisions each of which may "only" cost another £500.

    Best advice above is to feed them as they fuel up like cyclists.
    The plus side is we already have an outside toilet, so that's not an issue...
  • ProssPross Posts: 28,258

    rjsterry said:

    david37 said:

    the best way to make small building projects like this much much cheaper AND improve quality is to manage them yourself and be prepared to be on site and get dirty tired and fed up.

    buy some proper project management software and bang everything into it. your frazzled brain will thank you for it.

    ive saved hundreds of thousands of pounds over the years by doing that and running a fair but tight ship. it's probably stating the bleeding obvious but here are some of the things that work for me

    Places to save
    1 Skips.... make sure theyre filled properly. @c300 for an 8 yard skip they can mount up quickly
    2 shop around for a site toilet
    3 get a trade account at your local independent builders merchant. for discount.
    4 dont buy cheap tools
    5 make sure day rate labour is directed clearly and you have alternatives for them to do when there is an issue with something else. censored breaks are when and if the job permits it. dont finish half an hour early if there's a small job that can be done that gets you ahead tomorrow. eg sealing walls for tomorrows plastering.
    6 be fair but not a push over with labour, they appreciate it and you dont get messed about
    7 dont be afraid to bin lazy scrot bags that make a mess or dont care or get bolshy. they disrupt everyone on site and are just not worth the hassle
    8 a massive bag of chocolate bars is cheap and motivating
    9 dont pay for price based jobs such as electrical work or plumbing or heating until youve had a chance to spot any faults. it keeps the supplier keen to come back and rectify.
    10 never hire a mumbler. Ever
    11. Health and safety. if some div blinds himself with brick dust because hes not wearing eye protection your whole day or week will be wasted. likewise crushed toes. be prepared to supply ppe to cheaper day rate workers. and make sure the silly gits use it
    12 Materials. bricklayers will happily open a bag pf cement down the middle for one spade full. make it clear that preserving materials is important. likewise buckets will get chucked instead of cleaned, cement mixers wheelbarrows spades and shovels all need cleaning at the end of the day
    13 mix stuff even if in a bucket on a large board not on the drive. again people dont care about your drive, they just wont think about it
    14 dont skimp on paints and other chemical stuff

    do give yourself a break and treat it like a job. i.e. its not good practice to work for 15 hours a day over the weekend and bank holidays.

    15 you dont kneed to know how to do everything, you just need to know what you want done.

    get stuck in its hard work but achievable, even when you and the family are living there in the dust and horror of it all.

    Would echo the bit in bold. Even on a small domestic project, it could easily swallow a day or two per week of your time if you are hiring and managing all the labour directly and supplying all materials.
    Some of the savings need to be considered against your own lost earnings.
    Given that I'm working evenings and a few weekends at the moment already, I've gone with a one stop shop, with an architect and project management included. I guess I've got to the point where that's the trade off for the stress of the job that pays for it. Great. A loose loose situation.
    Very sensible. I look at half the morons on Grand Designs and wonder how they manage to keep a contractor let alone get the job finished (plus notice how they always exceed their budget significantly, they could probably spend that on professionals and get the job done to the original construction cost with far less persoanl stress).
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 13,962
    Pross said:

    rjsterry said:

    david37 said:

    the best way to make small building projects like this much much cheaper AND improve quality is to manage them yourself and be prepared to be on site and get dirty tired and fed up.

    buy some proper project management software and bang everything into it. your frazzled brain will thank you for it.

    ive saved hundreds of thousands of pounds over the years by doing that and running a fair but tight ship. it's probably stating the bleeding obvious but here are some of the things that work for me

    Places to save
    1 Skips.... make sure theyre filled properly. @c300 for an 8 yard skip they can mount up quickly
    2 shop around for a site toilet
    3 get a trade account at your local independent builders merchant. for discount.
    4 dont buy cheap tools
    5 make sure day rate labour is directed clearly and you have alternatives for them to do when there is an issue with something else. censored breaks are when and if the job permits it. dont finish half an hour early if there's a small job that can be done that gets you ahead tomorrow. eg sealing walls for tomorrows plastering.
    6 be fair but not a push over with labour, they appreciate it and you dont get messed about
    7 dont be afraid to bin lazy scrot bags that make a mess or dont care or get bolshy. they disrupt everyone on site and are just not worth the hassle
    8 a massive bag of chocolate bars is cheap and motivating
    9 dont pay for price based jobs such as electrical work or plumbing or heating until youve had a chance to spot any faults. it keeps the supplier keen to come back and rectify.
    10 never hire a mumbler. Ever
    11. Health and safety. if some div blinds himself with brick dust because hes not wearing eye protection your whole day or week will be wasted. likewise crushed toes. be prepared to supply ppe to cheaper day rate workers. and make sure the silly gits use it
    12 Materials. bricklayers will happily open a bag pf cement down the middle for one spade full. make it clear that preserving materials is important. likewise buckets will get chucked instead of cleaned, cement mixers wheelbarrows spades and shovels all need cleaning at the end of the day
    13 mix stuff even if in a bucket on a large board not on the drive. again people dont care about your drive, they just wont think about it
    14 dont skimp on paints and other chemical stuff

    do give yourself a break and treat it like a job. i.e. its not good practice to work for 15 hours a day over the weekend and bank holidays.

    15 you dont kneed to know how to do everything, you just need to know what you want done.

    get stuck in its hard work but achievable, even when you and the family are living there in the dust and horror of it all.

    Would echo the bit in bold. Even on a small domestic project, it could easily swallow a day or two per week of your time if you are hiring and managing all the labour directly and supplying all materials.
    Some of the savings need to be considered against your own lost earnings.
    Given that I'm working evenings and a few weekends at the moment already, I've gone with a one stop shop, with an architect and project management included. I guess I've got to the point where that's the trade off for the stress of the job that pays for it. Great. A loose loose situation.
    Very sensible. I look at half the morons on Grand Designs and wonder how they manage to keep a contractor let alone get the job finished (plus notice how they always exceed their budget significantly, they could probably spend that on professionals and get the job done to the original construction cost with far less persoanl stress).
    A mate doing a grand renovation had a flash QS pull up in an open top Boxter, swagger up and say hire me for £50k and I will save you at least a quarter of a million. Everything about him was annoying so told him to jog on. At the end of the project he could honestly say that was his worse decision in the whole process.
  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 4,445
    Turns out noone (unless TwistyTrees can disagree) we will never get a mortgage on it, despite how minimal the work is.

    I may be able to borrow the money to buy it in cash but doesn't seem like a sensible idea.

    Gutted and relieved.

    Thanks all for your help and sharing your experience.
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 13,161

    Pross said:

    rjsterry said:

    david37 said:

    the best way to make small building projects like this much much cheaper AND improve quality is to manage them yourself and be prepared to be on site and get dirty tired and fed up.

    buy some proper project management software and bang everything into it. your frazzled brain will thank you for it.

    ive saved hundreds of thousands of pounds over the years by doing that and running a fair but tight ship. it's probably stating the bleeding obvious but here are some of the things that work for me

    Places to save
    1 Skips.... make sure theyre filled properly. @c300 for an 8 yard skip they can mount up quickly
    2 shop around for a site toilet
    3 get a trade account at your local independent builders merchant. for discount.
    4 dont buy cheap tools
    5 make sure day rate labour is directed clearly and you have alternatives for them to do when there is an issue with something else. censored breaks are when and if the job permits it. dont finish half an hour early if there's a small job that can be done that gets you ahead tomorrow. eg sealing walls for tomorrows plastering.
    6 be fair but not a push over with labour, they appreciate it and you dont get messed about
    7 dont be afraid to bin lazy scrot bags that make a mess or dont care or get bolshy. they disrupt everyone on site and are just not worth the hassle
    8 a massive bag of chocolate bars is cheap and motivating
    9 dont pay for price based jobs such as electrical work or plumbing or heating until youve had a chance to spot any faults. it keeps the supplier keen to come back and rectify.
    10 never hire a mumbler. Ever
    11. Health and safety. if some div blinds himself with brick dust because hes not wearing eye protection your whole day or week will be wasted. likewise crushed toes. be prepared to supply ppe to cheaper day rate workers. and make sure the silly gits use it
    12 Materials. bricklayers will happily open a bag pf cement down the middle for one spade full. make it clear that preserving materials is important. likewise buckets will get chucked instead of cleaned, cement mixers wheelbarrows spades and shovels all need cleaning at the end of the day
    13 mix stuff even if in a bucket on a large board not on the drive. again people dont care about your drive, they just wont think about it
    14 dont skimp on paints and other chemical stuff

    do give yourself a break and treat it like a job. i.e. its not good practice to work for 15 hours a day over the weekend and bank holidays.

    15 you dont kneed to know how to do everything, you just need to know what you want done.

    get stuck in its hard work but achievable, even when you and the family are living there in the dust and horror of it all.

    Would echo the bit in bold. Even on a small domestic project, it could easily swallow a day or two per week of your time if you are hiring and managing all the labour directly and supplying all materials.
    Some of the savings need to be considered against your own lost earnings.
    Given that I'm working evenings and a few weekends at the moment already, I've gone with a one stop shop, with an architect and project management included. I guess I've got to the point where that's the trade off for the stress of the job that pays for it. Great. A loose loose situation.
    Very sensible. I look at half the morons on Grand Designs and wonder how they manage to keep a contractor let alone get the job finished (plus notice how they always exceed their budget significantly, they could probably spend that on professionals and get the job done to the original construction cost with far less persoanl stress).
    A mate doing a grand renovation had a flash QS pull up in an open top Boxter, swagger up and say hire me for £50k and I will save you at least a quarter of a million. Everything about him was annoying so told him to jog on. At the end of the project he could honestly say that was his worse decision in the whole process.
    In the end it comes down to trust. He might just have been out of pocket by another £50k.

    At a larger level, you need someone with PI cover advising you and a reliable contractor that wraps the cost of everything. Ideally, you can demonstrate costs in the event of a delay, so they can be included as LDs in the contract. None of it is easy.
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 6,699

    Turns out noone (unless TwistyTrees can disagree) we will never get a mortgage on it, despite how minimal the work is.

    I may be able to borrow the money to buy it in cash but doesn't seem like a sensible idea.

    Gutted and relieved.

    Thanks all for your help and sharing your experience.

    Could be worse, you could have been the owners who put the extension up in the first place.
  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 4,445
    That person has passed away and it's owned by a housing association.
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 6,699

    That person has passed away and it's owned by a housing association.

    Oh. Um. Er, you haven't died?

    Think you dodged a bullet tbh. Although I get you invest hopes and wotnot.
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 20,144

    rjsterry said:

    david37 said:

    the best way to make small building projects like this much much cheaper AND improve quality is to manage them yourself and be prepared to be on site and get dirty tired and fed up.

    buy some proper project management software and bang everything into it. your frazzled brain will thank you for it.

    ive saved hundreds of thousands of pounds over the years by doing that and running a fair but tight ship. it's probably stating the bleeding obvious but here are some of the things that work for me

    Places to save
    1 Skips.... make sure theyre filled properly. @c300 for an 8 yard skip they can mount up quickly
    2 shop around for a site toilet
    3 get a trade account at your local independent builders merchant. for discount.
    4 dont buy cheap tools
    5 make sure day rate labour is directed clearly and you have alternatives for them to do when there is an issue with something else. censored breaks are when and if the job permits it. dont finish half an hour early if there's a small job that can be done that gets you ahead tomorrow. eg sealing walls for tomorrows plastering.
    6 be fair but not a push over with labour, they appreciate it and you dont get messed about
    7 dont be afraid to bin lazy scrot bags that make a mess or dont care or get bolshy. they disrupt everyone on site and are just not worth the hassle
    8 a massive bag of chocolate bars is cheap and motivating
    9 dont pay for price based jobs such as electrical work or plumbing or heating until youve had a chance to spot any faults. it keeps the supplier keen to come back and rectify.
    10 never hire a mumbler. Ever
    11. Health and safety. if some div blinds himself with brick dust because hes not wearing eye protection your whole day or week will be wasted. likewise crushed toes. be prepared to supply ppe to cheaper day rate workers. and make sure the silly gits use it
    12 Materials. bricklayers will happily open a bag pf cement down the middle for one spade full. make it clear that preserving materials is important. likewise buckets will get chucked instead of cleaned, cement mixers wheelbarrows spades and shovels all need cleaning at the end of the day
    13 mix stuff even if in a bucket on a large board not on the drive. again people dont care about your drive, they just wont think about it
    14 dont skimp on paints and other chemical stuff

    do give yourself a break and treat it like a job. i.e. its not good practice to work for 15 hours a day over the weekend and bank holidays.

    15 you dont kneed to know how to do everything, you just need to know what you want done.

    get stuck in its hard work but achievable, even when you and the family are living there in the dust and horror of it all.

    Would echo the bit in bold. Even on a small domestic project, it could easily swallow a day or two per week of your time if you are hiring and managing all the labour directly and supplying all materials.
    Some of the savings need to be considered against your own lost earnings.
    Given that I'm working evenings and a few weekends at the moment already, I've gone with a one stop shop, with an architect and project management included. I guess I've got to the point where that's the trade off for the stress of the job that pays for it. Great. A loose loose situation.
    Better that than kidding yourself a ten minute call to the foreman every other day will cover it.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 6,699
    rjsterry said:

    rjsterry said:

    david37 said:

    the best way to make small building projects like this much much cheaper AND improve quality is to manage them yourself and be prepared to be on site and get dirty tired and fed up.

    buy some proper project management software and bang everything into it. your frazzled brain will thank you for it.

    ive saved hundreds of thousands of pounds over the years by doing that and running a fair but tight ship. it's probably stating the bleeding obvious but here are some of the things that work for me

    Places to save
    1 Skips.... make sure theyre filled properly. @c300 for an 8 yard skip they can mount up quickly
    2 shop around for a site toilet
    3 get a trade account at your local independent builders merchant. for discount.
    4 dont buy cheap tools
    5 make sure day rate labour is directed clearly and you have alternatives for them to do when there is an issue with something else. censored breaks are when and if the job permits it. dont finish half an hour early if there's a small job that can be done that gets you ahead tomorrow. eg sealing walls for tomorrows plastering.
    6 be fair but not a push over with labour, they appreciate it and you dont get messed about
    7 dont be afraid to bin lazy scrot bags that make a mess or dont care or get bolshy. they disrupt everyone on site and are just not worth the hassle
    8 a massive bag of chocolate bars is cheap and motivating
    9 dont pay for price based jobs such as electrical work or plumbing or heating until youve had a chance to spot any faults. it keeps the supplier keen to come back and rectify.
    10 never hire a mumbler. Ever
    11. Health and safety. if some div blinds himself with brick dust because hes not wearing eye protection your whole day or week will be wasted. likewise crushed toes. be prepared to supply ppe to cheaper day rate workers. and make sure the silly gits use it
    12 Materials. bricklayers will happily open a bag pf cement down the middle for one spade full. make it clear that preserving materials is important. likewise buckets will get chucked instead of cleaned, cement mixers wheelbarrows spades and shovels all need cleaning at the end of the day
    13 mix stuff even if in a bucket on a large board not on the drive. again people dont care about your drive, they just wont think about it
    14 dont skimp on paints and other chemical stuff

    do give yourself a break and treat it like a job. i.e. its not good practice to work for 15 hours a day over the weekend and bank holidays.

    15 you dont kneed to know how to do everything, you just need to know what you want done.

    get stuck in its hard work but achievable, even when you and the family are living there in the dust and horror of it all.

    Would echo the bit in bold. Even on a small domestic project, it could easily swallow a day or two per week of your time if you are hiring and managing all the labour directly and supplying all materials.
    Some of the savings need to be considered against your own lost earnings.
    Given that I'm working evenings and a few weekends at the moment already, I've gone with a one stop shop, with an architect and project management included. I guess I've got to the point where that's the trade off for the stress of the job that pays for it. Great. A loose loose situation.
    Better that than kidding yourself a ten minute call to the foreman every other day will cover it.
    I think so. Besides, I wouldn't want to work for me and I couldn't see it ending well.
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 20,144

    Turns out noone (unless TwistyTrees can disagree) we will never get a mortgage on it, despite how minimal the work is.

    I may be able to borrow the money to buy it in cash but doesn't seem like a sensible idea.

    Gutted and relieved.

    Thanks all for your help and sharing your experience.

    That's a shame. Still: there will be others.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 20,144

    Pross said:

    rjsterry said:

    david37 said:

    the best way to make small building projects like this much much cheaper AND improve quality is to manage them yourself and be prepared to be on site and get dirty tired and fed up.

    buy some proper project management software and bang everything into it. your frazzled brain will thank you for it.

    ive saved hundreds of thousands of pounds over the years by doing that and running a fair but tight ship. it's probably stating the bleeding obvious but here are some of the things that work for me

    Places to save
    1 Skips.... make sure theyre filled properly. @c300 for an 8 yard skip they can mount up quickly
    2 shop around for a site toilet
    3 get a trade account at your local independent builders merchant. for discount.
    4 dont buy cheap tools
    5 make sure day rate labour is directed clearly and you have alternatives for them to do when there is an issue with something else. censored breaks are when and if the job permits it. dont finish half an hour early if there's a small job that can be done that gets you ahead tomorrow. eg sealing walls for tomorrows plastering.
    6 be fair but not a push over with labour, they appreciate it and you dont get messed about
    7 dont be afraid to bin lazy scrot bags that make a mess or dont care or get bolshy. they disrupt everyone on site and are just not worth the hassle
    8 a massive bag of chocolate bars is cheap and motivating
    9 dont pay for price based jobs such as electrical work or plumbing or heating until youve had a chance to spot any faults. it keeps the supplier keen to come back and rectify.
    10 never hire a mumbler. Ever
    11. Health and safety. if some div blinds himself with brick dust because hes not wearing eye protection your whole day or week will be wasted. likewise crushed toes. be prepared to supply ppe to cheaper day rate workers. and make sure the silly gits use it
    12 Materials. bricklayers will happily open a bag pf cement down the middle for one spade full. make it clear that preserving materials is important. likewise buckets will get chucked instead of cleaned, cement mixers wheelbarrows spades and shovels all need cleaning at the end of the day
    13 mix stuff even if in a bucket on a large board not on the drive. again people dont care about your drive, they just wont think about it
    14 dont skimp on paints and other chemical stuff

    do give yourself a break and treat it like a job. i.e. its not good practice to work for 15 hours a day over the weekend and bank holidays.

    15 you dont kneed to know how to do everything, you just need to know what you want done.

    get stuck in its hard work but achievable, even when you and the family are living there in the dust and horror of it all.

    Would echo the bit in bold. Even on a small domestic project, it could easily swallow a day or two per week of your time if you are hiring and managing all the labour directly and supplying all materials.
    Some of the savings need to be considered against your own lost earnings.
    Given that I'm working evenings and a few weekends at the moment already, I've gone with a one stop shop, with an architect and project management included. I guess I've got to the point where that's the trade off for the stress of the job that pays for it. Great. A loose loose situation.
    Very sensible. I look at half the morons on Grand Designs and wonder how they manage to keep a contractor let alone get the job finished (plus notice how they always exceed their budget significantly, they could probably spend that on professionals and get the job done to the original construction cost with far less persoanl stress).
    A mate doing a grand renovation had a flash QS pull up in an open top Boxter, swagger up and say hire me for £50k and I will save you at least a quarter of a million. Everything about him was annoying so told him to jog on. At the end of the project he could honestly say that was his worse decision in the whole process.
    In the end it comes down to trust. He might just have been out of pocket by another £50k.

    At a larger level, you need someone with PI cover advising you and a reliable contractor that wraps the cost of everything. Ideally, you can demonstrate costs in the event of a delay, so they can be included as LDs in the contract. None of it is easy.
    Amen.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 6,130
    edited 22 April
    rjsterry said:

    rjsterry said:

    david37 said:

    the best way to make small building projects like this much much cheaper AND improve quality is to manage them yourself and be prepared to be on site and get dirty tired and fed up.

    buy some proper project management software and bang everything into it. your frazzled brain will thank you for it.

    ive saved hundreds of thousands of pounds over the years by doing that and running a fair but tight ship. it's probably stating the bleeding obvious but here are some of the things that work for me

    Places to save
    1 Skips.... make sure theyre filled properly. @c300 for an 8 yard skip they can mount up quickly
    2 shop around for a site toilet
    3 get a trade account at your local independent builders merchant. for discount.
    4 dont buy cheap tools
    5 make sure day rate labour is directed clearly and you have alternatives for them to do when there is an issue with something else. censored breaks are when and if the job permits it. dont finish half an hour early if there's a small job that can be done that gets you ahead tomorrow. eg sealing walls for tomorrows plastering.
    6 be fair but not a push over with labour, they appreciate it and you dont get messed about
    7 dont be afraid to bin lazy scrot bags that make a mess or dont care or get bolshy. they disrupt everyone on site and are just not worth the hassle
    8 a massive bag of chocolate bars is cheap and motivating
    9 dont pay for price based jobs such as electrical work or plumbing or heating until youve had a chance to spot any faults. it keeps the supplier keen to come back and rectify.
    10 never hire a mumbler. Ever
    11. Health and safety. if some div blinds himself with brick dust because hes not wearing eye protection your whole day or week will be wasted. likewise crushed toes. be prepared to supply ppe to cheaper day rate workers. and make sure the silly gits use it
    12 Materials. bricklayers will happily open a bag pf cement down the middle for one spade full. make it clear that preserving materials is important. likewise buckets will get chucked instead of cleaned, cement mixers wheelbarrows spades and shovels all need cleaning at the end of the day
    13 mix stuff even if in a bucket on a large board not on the drive. again people dont care about your drive, they just wont think about it
    14 dont skimp on paints and other chemical stuff

    do give yourself a break and treat it like a job. i.e. its not good practice to work for 15 hours a day over the weekend and bank holidays.

    15 you dont kneed to know how to do everything, you just need to know what you want done.

    get stuck in its hard work but achievable, even when you and the family are living there in the dust and horror of it all.

    Would echo the bit in bold. Even on a small domestic project, it could easily swallow a day or two per week of your time if you are hiring and managing all the labour directly and supplying all materials.
    Some of the savings need to be considered against your own lost earnings.
    Given that I'm working evenings and a few weekends at the moment already, I've gone with a one stop shop, with an architect and project management included. I guess I've got to the point where that's the trade off for the stress of the job that pays for it. Great. A loose loose situation.
    Better that than kidding yourself a ten minute call to the foreman every other day will cover it.
    This. The amount of time I had to spend just keeping an eye on the guys converting my under stairs cupboard into a loo was crazy. Had to really keep an eye on what they delivered against the quote also.

    Had to chase them about when they would turn up and to get them for waste removal which was also quoted for.
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
    Tall....
    www.seewildlife.co.uk
  • david37david37 Posts: 1,313
    elbowloh said:

    rjsterry said:

    rjsterry said:

    david37 said:

    the best way to make small building projects like this much much cheaper AND improve quality is to manage them yourself and be prepared to be on site and get dirty tired and fed up.

    buy some proper project management software and bang everything into it. your frazzled brain will thank you for it.

    ive saved hundreds of thousands of pounds over the years by doing that and running a fair but tight ship. it's probably stating the bleeding obvious but here are some of the things that work for me

    Places to save
    1 Skips.... make sure theyre filled properly. @c300 for an 8 yard skip they can mount up quickly
    2 shop around for a site toilet
    3 get a trade account at your local independent builders merchant. for discount.
    4 dont buy cheap tools
    5 make sure day rate labour is directed clearly and you have alternatives for them to do when there is an issue with something else. censored breaks are when and if the job permits it. dont finish half an hour early if there's a small job that can be done that gets you ahead tomorrow. eg sealing walls for tomorrows plastering.
    6 be fair but not a push over with labour, they appreciate it and you dont get messed about
    7 dont be afraid to bin lazy scrot bags that make a mess or dont care or get bolshy. they disrupt everyone on site and are just not worth the hassle
    8 a massive bag of chocolate bars is cheap and motivating
    9 dont pay for price based jobs such as electrical work or plumbing or heating until youve had a chance to spot any faults. it keeps the supplier keen to come back and rectify.
    10 never hire a mumbler. Ever
    11. Health and safety. if some div blinds himself with brick dust because hes not wearing eye protection your whole day or week will be wasted. likewise crushed toes. be prepared to supply ppe to cheaper day rate workers. and make sure the silly gits use it
    12 Materials. bricklayers will happily open a bag pf cement down the middle for one spade full. make it clear that preserving materials is important. likewise buckets will get chucked instead of cleaned, cement mixers wheelbarrows spades and shovels all need cleaning at the end of the day
    13 mix stuff even if in a bucket on a large board not on the drive. again people dont care about your drive, they just wont think about it
    14 dont skimp on paints and other chemical stuff

    do give yourself a break and treat it like a job. i.e. its not good practice to work for 15 hours a day over the weekend and bank holidays.

    15 you dont kneed to know how to do everything, you just need to know what you want done.

    get stuck in its hard work but achievable, even when you and the family are living there in the dust and horror of it all.

    Would echo the bit in bold. Even on a small domestic project, it could easily swallow a day or two per week of your time if you are hiring and managing all the labour directly and supplying all materials.
    Some of the savings need to be considered against your own lost earnings.
    Given that I'm working evenings and a few weekends at the moment already, I've gone with a one stop shop, with an architect and project management included. I guess I've got to the point where that's the trade off for the stress of the job that pays for it. Great. A loose loose situation.
    Better that than kidding yourself a ten minute call to the foreman every other day will cover it.
    This. The amount of time I had to spend just keeping an eye on the guys converting my under stairs cupboard into a loo was crazy. Had to really keep an eye on what they delivered against the quote also.

    Had to chase them about when they would turn up and to get them for waste removal which was also quoted for.
    thats what the loo is for :D
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