Don't ever talk to a catholic about religion

Mike Skinner · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Fantastic Mr Fox
So, the human race wouldn't have advanced at all. How is that a good thing?

You think the world would be better without the advances we have made? Both in science and in politics? We all be living in mud huts, killing each other with spears and dieing of tooth ache.
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we are. to be pedantic, bricks are mad of mud, bullets are modern spears and disease is far from being eradicated, people still die young, and those that live to late age suffer longer than they would have naturally.

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ride_whenever · May 2007

we are, to be wrong, bricks and mortar are no longer mud (mud is semi-liquid with water, unlike bricks). Bullets are not spears, they are bullets and life expectancy is no longer about 27. People do not universally suffer in old age.

What has god done to stop any of this? Sweet FA.

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Mike Skinner · May 2007

wehey, science has helped us make spears that kill people faster and cheaper?
helped us make houses that damage the environment they aim to insulate us from
helped us avoid death, but create numerous other problems the huge population creates.

I'm not anti-science, just aware of its major downs as well as life cahnging ups.

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Red Lemon · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mike Skinner
I'm not anti-science, just aware of its major downs as well as life cahnging ups.
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Glad I'm not the only one with a balanced view, I was starting to wonder...

The argument seems to be that if science creates something that can cause damage, then it's human nature that's in the wrong. If something bad is done because of religion, then religion is to blame, and not human nature.

ride_whenever · May 2007

That's fair enough, but i see science as providing solutions to problems, in a reactionary sense, whereas religion doesn't do anything beyond trying to impose its moral code upon others.

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Red Lemon · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ride_whenever
religion doesn't do anything beyond trying to impose its moral code upon others.
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You clearly underestimate the value and importance of faith to those who actually have some. I won't try to explain; you won't be able to understand.

ride_whenever · May 2007

I know more people who have had their lives ruined by the internal conflict caused by religion than have been saved by it. For support through times of crisis and adversity i would look to friends over the "warm and fluffy lord" because I know they will be there for me. I can understand the attractiveness of faith, and how it can affect people because i've seen that, but I'll stick with knowing my self worth and trying to live as i see right.

My Scott

My Single Speed

Always remember to pick your Uni according to the local trails or you'll be stuck with nowhere to ride for three years!

Alex · May 2007

Belief in a higher being is a psychological comfort blanket, a need that's programmed into human beings in the same way that dolphins are born knowing how to swim. We all believe in something, be it god, science or the certainty that this is all there is. It explains what we don't understand without having to be rational. It silences deadly curiosity.

Religion has always been and still is the means of propagating control through our need for belief.

600 years ago, we all believed the earth was flat and that we were at the centre of the solar system and that god was the creator. Now we believe that the earth is round, that the earth orbits the sun and question god's existance.

150 years ago, we believed that god created man and place him in the garden of eden. 149 years ago, Darwin eventually led us to believe that man crawled out of the primordial soup, evolved from blue green algae to multicellular organisms to mammals to primates to us.

60 years ago, Watson and Crick discovered the structure of DNA, leading us all to believe that we're made up from a molecular instruction book held in long helices of acids rather than just being that way.

15 years ago, scientists started encouraging us to believe that we're killing the planet by propagating the global warming idea.

And for the past 10,000 years, religion has been used as an instrument of subjugation and of warfare.

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Mike Skinner · May 2007

and of peace and of upheald moral higbgrounds.

To argue religion has done nothing good for humans, especially shortterm (as in for one human in their lifetime) is purely wrong, but whether religion has led to a better society no-one knows (except Dr Who and Rose)

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Fantastic Mr Fox · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Red Lemon

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ride_whenever
religion doesn't do anything beyond trying to impose its moral code upon others.
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You clearly underestimate the value and importance of faith to those who actually have some. I won't try to explain; you won't be able to understand.
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So what does it do? Surely believing in heaven completely de-values the life that you have because you'll always think that your headed somewhere better. Its a shame really.

<hr noshade size="1"><center>I'd rather not.</center>

ride_whenever · May 2007

I'd say that belief in an afterlife would allow people to be average, if this life is all you get then you might as well be bloody extraordinary so that you get remembered.

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Mike Skinner · May 2007

unless there is an afterlife, and then you're scuppered. You can't evaluate heavens impact on the current life if you won't accept the idea of heaven. Of course it won't make sense.

But if you take the effort to believe there really is a hell, that is an eternity of torture, or a heaven that is similar of wonderment, then you must see how it is worth sacrificing 70 or 80 years to gain that

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Stuff · May 2007

Hmmm my hope is that when they fire off the new Particle accelerator in France it kills us all. From what I have read its more likely something could go wrong than someone winning the lottery and people win that.
I do understand whats happening in a loose sense and if they create a blackhole we dont have anything to worry about because it would collapse almost as soon as it was created. Yes they could tear the fabric of space and open a rift into another version of the universe but I know that as the physics would be different nothing could pass between these sides (apparently we are infinitely close to another dimension as we are infinetly far away)
So all I can hope for is some super explosion or something that can wipe everything out that the scientists have overlooked. Ive lead a good life, I put my faith in science but question it constantly and am going to be drunk in August (I think if they get it running in time) with my fingers crossed. Of course if it doesnt all go horribly wrong then the next day I will truly wish it had.
Recreating a proportion of the big bang is going to be interesting and Im sure I wont understand a word of the experiments but I'll have a shot. Shame I didnt take the welding job on it. Then at least I could say I had a hand in either an experiment which will know doubt raise more questions or possibly the undoing of reality

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DavesNotHere

I wouldn't have put yours on anyway, on account of you being a n00b
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edit-I wonder how many different and incorrect spellings there are of the word infinite?

Mike Skinner · May 2007

you can see The Sun's headline now
"Eggheads make Super Smash Catastrophe"

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Stuff · May 2007

Ha you should work for them

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DavesNotHere

I wouldn't have put yours on anyway, on account of you being a n00b
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Fantastic Mr Fox · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mike Skinner

unless there is an afterlife, and then you're scuppered. You can't evaluate heavens impact on the current life if you won't accept the idea of heaven. Of course it won't make sense.

But if you take the effort to believe there really is a hell, that is an eternity of torture, or a heaven that is similar of wonderment, then you must see how it is worth sacrificing 70 or 80 years to gain that

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<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ok, so your sacrificing your life for a lie. That is idiocy in its greatest form. You've been lucky enough to get the opportunity to live, and your throwing that opportunity away by following a man made set of morals which deny your human nature.

If god is good, then why does he choose to send good people to hell for not believing in him? This god fellow sounds like a bit of an asshole to me. He'll send good people to hell for his own vanity.
Or, maybe its all a lie and the assholes that started it decided that they needed to strike fear into the hearts of people in order to get followers. Assholes.

<hr noshade size="1"><center>I'd rather not.</center>

Mike Skinner · May 2007

because by his rules, not believing in him and not giving your life to serving him makes you not good.
you're basing what is good on your own (or todays societies) view of what 'goodness' is.

As I've said before, I'm not a believer, but in order to understand peoples arguements you have to try to 'feel' their beliefs. And if you can imagine being a total believer, then it must seem idiotic to take advantage of 70 years of life but sacrifice eternity of happyness.

for a non believer, where there is no afterlife, it seems you are wasting your only years.

My opinion on the matter is, I think leading a religious life, if done properly, should make you a beter and happier person in this lifetime. While you may have to give up some pelasures, it also dictates you treat other people better, look after the world, cast away greed. All things which in their doing make you happier in yourself, whether it is for a greater good in the afterlife or not.

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Red Lemon · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Fantastic Mr Fox
So what does it do? Surely believing in heaven completely de-values the life that you have
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It doesn't.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ride_whenever

I'd say that belief in an afterlife would allow people to be average
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It doesn't, any more so than non-belief in an afterlife.

You two are just making up random crap now.

Big Red S · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bobmcstuff

Even though religion has caused things such as holy wars and discrimination?
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Could we have fought the religious wars or implemented discrimination without science?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Fantastic Mr Fox

Ok, so your sacrificing your life for a lie.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Obviously, if you're going to sacrifice your life for it, you're not going to think it's a lie.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
That is idiocy in its greatest form. You've been lucky enough to get the opportunity to live, and your throwing that opportunity away by following a man made set of morals which deny your human nature.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
But, as I said previously, clearly anyone who lives by them doesn't believe them to be man made.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
If god is good, then why does he choose to send good people to hell for not believing in him? This god fellow sounds like a bit of an asshole to me. He'll send good people to hell for his own vanity.
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I've got no idea, to be blunt. The idea of Hell is quite peculiar to Christians and Muslims, so far as I know.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Or, maybe its all a lie and the assholes that started it decided that they needed to strike fear into the hearts of people in order to get followers. Assholes.
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Maybe. But no-one knows either way.

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Fantastic Mr Fox · May 2007

Exactly, no ones knows. Agnostic FTUW!

<hr noshade size="1"><center>I'd rather not.</center>

Mike Skinner · May 2007

how does that fence feel ;-)

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Tartanyak · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mike Skinner

you can see The Sun's headline now
"Eggheads make Super Smash Catastrophe"

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

On a serious note, obviously on line with the topic...

Isn't that a game for the Wii? [:D]

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Fantastic Mr Fox · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mike Skinner

how does that fence feel ;-)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This is what I have to say to that.

<hr noshade size="1"><center>I'd rather not.</center>

whyamihere · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mike Skinner

FAO kitty/Catholics.
please appologise for your faith.
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Kitty:

What am I supposed to be apologising for?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Fantastic Mr Fox

Your a woman? Why the hell would you want to be Catholic? Did you know that there are no women in the Catholic hierarchy? Its a sexist religion. As most of them are.

Sort it out.

PS, Catholics also condemn condom use! So, if you have had sex with Whyamihere, or dislike aids again, why the hell are you Catholic?
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I'm Catholic because I was brought up that way to be honest, but I truly believe in my faith and although some areas are incorrect over time things will change, it's never let me down or turned it's back on me, without God I wouldn't be here.

I am allowed to use condoms if I wish but hey who said i believed in sex before marriage anyways?

konalover · May 2007

When it comes to this sort of argument, shouldn't religion and the existance of God (as described in the bible) be taken as two seperate issues?

Just because religion has misinterpereted/twisted the bible doesn't mean it's not true. For instance I believe in the bible but I don't think theres a hell (mistranslation of the word "hades") or that the earth was created a few thousand years ago (misinterpretation of the word "day").

I honestly believe that both science and religion have caused alot of problems but that's not God's fault...

"If they can make penicillin out of mouldy bread, they can sure make something out of you"

Don't ever talk to a catholic about religion

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