Rant: 9 speed and bottom bracket folly

9speedsucks · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by secondtimeuser

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by 9speedsucks
Why have Campagnolo kept with the sq taper?

ISIS is greatly inferior to Sq taper. Or at least, it is as inferior. Why? Sq Taper might be fallible at the BB/crank interface (if you don't tighten it down to the correct torque or you do HUGE drops), but ISIS is fallible at the bearings from normal everyday riding! Sp which failure mode do you prefer?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Perhaps Campag stuck with it because road riding is a little less violent on parts than most (if not all) aspects of MTB?

And exactly how can square taper BBs be superior to everything else around when it was nigh-on impossible to achieve correct chainline? How could little ol' me manage to destroy 4 square taper BBs in 8 months with not exceptionally heavy or demanding riding?

If you want an adjustable, long lasting, stiff and easy to fit crank set-up, external bearings are certainly the way forward. As for your nine-speed issues, go back to 8 if it bothers you that much. 9 seems to work fine for virtually everyone else, so stop complaining about it and go riding.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Again, totally avoiding the real issue of longevity and robustness of 9 speed systems.

I don't believe you went through 4 sq taper BB's. And if you did, I bet you didn't tighten them up properly. Roadies can place huge torques and torsional stress on sq taper BB's. A darn site more than Badd Ass jumping from the curb outside his mum's house on his dad's Apollo.

And even if sq tapers are not as suitable for proper Northshore riding, Northshore riding represents probably less than 1% of the people on this forum. Square Taper was fine for 90% of the people on this forum, and if you want to talk about chainlines - let's talk about Offboard bearings and their one size fits all approach.

9 speed works for you cos you are built like Kemal from BB6.

lacuna · June 2005

doesn't matter how many he snapped, 1 is more than enough. why run the risk of a serious crash when you don't need to?

<center><h5>Muni-Mula</h5></center><center><h3>Fresh Havoc</h3><h5>Xile</h5></center>

Bad Ass · June 2005

"Again, totally avoiding the real issue of longevity and robustness of 9 speed systems."

And again, you probably use the wrong cleaning equipment etc, most, including myself have never had any problems at all.

"A darn site more than Badd Ass jumping from the curb outside his mum's house on his dad's Apollo."

Oh its my dads apollo mow? you are very strange. well if that what you think I do when I go biking I feel glad that I'm not like you, jumping off your dads cock into your mums dirty, dungeon of a fanny. 

"9 speed works for you cos you are built like Kemal from BB6."

you sad <s>man</s> boy, you actually watch that, and we all know you have a soft spot for kemal.

What I find funny is that if you can't argue your case, which clearly all your willing to do is state your case and not let down when your proven wrong or given an alternaltive method, then all you resort to is lame <s>insults</s>
come backs

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by General Reign-Mack

was going to say, you can tell a lot about a man from the way he keeps his desktop and that dont look like the desk top of a skirt wearing man <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
[:X]the Dr Jekyll -
[:0]the Stinky - (now updated big style but no pics yet!)
[:(!] guess who? its me!!!!!
[}:)] latest tattoo, got in january

9speedsucks · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Bad Ass

"Again, totally avoiding the real issue of longevity and robustness of 9 speed systems."

And again, you probably use the wrong cleaning equipment etc, most, including myself have never had any problems at all.

"A darn site more than Badd Ass jumping from the curb outside his mum's house on his dad's Apollo."

Oh its my dads apollo mow? you are very strange. well if that what you think I do when I go biking I feel glad that I'm not like you, jumping off your dads cock into your mums dirty, dungeon of a fanny. 

"9 speed works for you cos you are built like Kemal from BB6."

you sad <s>man</s> boy, you actually watch that, and we all know you have a soft spot for kemal.

What I find funny is that if you can't argue your case, which clearly all your willing to do is state your case and not let down when your proven wrong or given an alternaltive method, then all you resort to is lame <s>insults</s>
come backs

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by General Reign-Mack

was going to say, you can tell a lot about a man from the way he keeps his desktop and that dont look like the desk top of a skirt wearing man <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
[:X]the Dr Jekyll -
[:0]the Stinky - (now updated big style but no pics yet!)
[:(!] guess who? its me!!!!!
[}:)] latest tattoo, got in january
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Says the king of lame comebacks.

Meanwhile in his mum's house, mummy is having sex with the family alsation.

9speedsucks · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by lacuna

doesn't matter how many he snapped, 1 is more than enough. why run the risk of a serious crash when you don't need to?

<center><h5>Muni-Mula</h5></center><center><h3>Fresh Havoc</h3><h5>Xile</h5></center>
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Says the man who has never ridden a bike in anger.

secondtimeuser · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by 9speedsucks
Again, totally avoiding the real issue of longevity and robustness of 9 speed systems.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I mentioned earlier I've had one Sram PC59 chain last over 700 miles of various abuse since March 2004, with no issues whatsoever. That post was covering one of your more recent posts, as I had already voiced my opinion regarding the subject at hand.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
I don't believe you went through 4 sq taper BB's. And if you did, I bet you didn't tighten them up properly.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
admittedly, the first one wasn't tightened properly, however with the subsequent ones I followed the recommended tightening torques. They still went shockingly quickly.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Roadies can place huge torques and torsional stress on sq taper BB's. A darn site more than Badd Ass jumping from the curb outside his mum's house on his dad's Apollo.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
But lets face it, with road riding it's very much continual pedalling over smooth terrain. Square taper just doesn't cut it when airtime starts increasing.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
And even if sq tapers are not as suitable for proper Northshore riding, Northshore riding represents probably less than 1% of the people on this forum.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Where did I mention NS?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Square Taper was fine for 90% of the people on this forum
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
err, why did everyone change then?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
and if you want to talk about chainlines - let's talk about Offboard bearings and their one size fits all approach.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
RaceFace X-Type cranks can be adjusted between 48 and 50mm chainlines, which will cover most options.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
9 speed works for you cos you are built like Kemal from BB6.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
who from what?

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<h6>Answer Blackspire Brand-X Brooklyn Machine Works Chris King Clarks DTSwiss E13 Easton Gusset I.D. Kenda Marzocchi Mavic Mission RaceFace Shimano Sram Titec</h6>Comments?</center>

fatwhippet · June 2005

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Bad Ass · June 2005

your actually quite funny in a fucking annoying sence.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by General Reign-Mack

was going to say, you can tell a lot about a man from the way he keeps his desktop and that dont look like the desk top of a skirt wearing man <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
[:X]the Dr Jekyll -
[:0]the Stinky - (now updated big style but no pics yet!)
[:(!] guess who? its me!!!!!
[}:)] latest tattoo, got in january

lacuna · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by 9speedsucks

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by lacuna

doesn't matter how many he snapped, 1 is more than enough. why run the risk of a serious crash when you don't need to?

<center><h5>Muni-Mula</h5></center><center><h3>Fresh Havoc</h3><h5>Xile</h5></center>
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Says the man who has never ridden a bike in anger.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

i don't understand...

<center><h5>Muni-Mula</h5></center><center><h3>Fresh Havoc</h3><h5>Xile</h5></center>

9speedsucks · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by secondtimeuser
Square Taper was fine for 90% of the people on this forum
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
err, why did everyone change then?
[/quote]

Can't be bothered to answer most of your irrelevancies.

But consumers had to change cos sq taper no longer offers much choice.

9 speed is away of forcing change. ISIS was a way for forcing change. Change often for change's sake. Especially since I have NEVER met anyone that has broken a sq taper bottom bracket through jumping. It doesn't happen. It shows complete misunderstanding of the usual failure mode.

Still... everyone likes to live the dream.

I broke a Northshore crank. Wow. Harcore.

You know the score?

Have you met Bad Ass' mum?

Bad Ass · June 2005

"Have you met Bad Ass' mum?"

here we go. run out of insults have we, go fist yourself. enjoy being about as intresting a mouldy turd for the rest of your days

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by General Reign-Mack

was going to say, you can tell a lot about a man from the way he keeps his desktop and that dont look like the desk top of a skirt wearing man <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
[:X]the Dr Jekyll -
[:0]the Stinky - (now updated big style but no pics yet!)
[:(!] guess who? its me!!!!!
[}:)] latest tattoo, got in january

9speedsucks · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Bad Ass

"Have you met Bad Ass' mum?"

here we go. run out of insults have we, go fist yourself. enjoy being about as intresting a mouldy turd for the rest of your days

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by General Reign-Mack

was going to say, you can tell a lot about a man from the way he keeps his desktop and that dont look like the desk top of a skirt wearing man <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
[:X]the Dr Jekyll -
[:0]the Stinky - (now updated big style but no pics yet!)
[:(!] guess who? its me!!!!!
[}:)] latest tattoo, got in january
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It's orange isn't it?

Your Apollo I mean.

Bad Ass · June 2005

see you can't hold a decent arguement or conversation can you, you child. you go over old jokes that you've made at least well now 4 odd times in this thread as your incable of making new jokes. I can't understand what anyones bike has to do with it. and again, I feel i have to tell you I don't own an apollo, I'm sorry if its that hard to penetrate your skull.

you are a worthless peice of human life, do you come from Royston vaysey from the league of gentlemen by any chance?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by General Reign-Mack

was going to say, you can tell a lot about a man from the way he keeps his desktop and that dont look like the desk top of a skirt wearing man <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
[:X]the Dr Jekyll -
[:0]the Stinky - (now updated big style but no pics yet!)
[:(!] guess who? its me!!!!!
[}:)] latest tattoo, got in january

brockham · June 2005

yer 9 speed sucks, just gang low for a while, noone likes you

Brockham

The Briefs
Laugh at my misfortune
THE NEW TRAILS!!

9speedsucks · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by brockham

yer 9 speed sucks, just gang low for a while, noone likes you

Brockham

The Briefs
Laugh at my misfortune
THE NEW TRAILS!!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Please translate this reply into English. Thanks.

9speedsucks · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Bad Ass

see you can't hold a decent arguement or conversation can you, you child. you go over old jokes that you've made at least well now 4 odd times in this thread as your incable of making new jokes. I can't understand what anyones bike has to do with it. and again, I feel i have to tell you I don't own an apollo, I'm sorry if its that hard to penetrate your skull.

you are a worthless peice of human life, do you come from Royston vaysey from the league of gentlemen by any chance?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by General Reign-Mack

was going to say, you can tell a lot about a man from the way he keeps his desktop and that dont look like the desk top of a skirt wearing man <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
[:X]the Dr Jekyll -
[:0]the Stinky - (now updated big style but no pics yet!)
[:(!] guess who? its me!!!!!
[}:)] latest tattoo, got in january
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I've already apologised for giving your mum crabs.

Bad Ass · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Bad Ass

see you can't hold a decent arguement or conversation can you, you child. you go over old jokes that you've made at least well now 4 odd times in this thread as your incable of making new jokes. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

just to remind you, incase you forgot, anyway enough of this fun, I'm about to finish work and go home. I might come back later to inspect what great ideas you've got later if I can be bothered.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by General Reign-Mack

was going to say, you can tell a lot about a man from the way he keeps his desktop and that dont look like the desk top of a skirt wearing man <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
[:X]the Dr Jekyll -
[:0]the Stinky - (now updated big style but no pics yet!)
[:(!] guess who? its me!!!!!
[}:)] latest tattoo, got in january

Dangerous Dave · June 2005

You're comments on 9-speed are fair enough, but in defence of nick, don't think he is a kid, far from it, he's properly as old as you!

I'd also like to say that I ride my bike every day, every week, on a 9 speed setup, and have not found the wear on it to be unreasonable, and I tend to use:
Xt Cassette
Pc69/59 chain, and recently the PGG970 or whatever it's called.

I'd never spend œ30 on a chain, chains of this price tend to be designed for lightness rather than longevity (in my experience) so I've never seen the point in spending this much on something 6months down the line will be useless and weaker than a œ15 chain.
Though I don't know much about your chain you had and aren't particularly bothered.

If you maintain your drivetrain properly (I do), it will last for ages.

Regarding Isis:
If you don't like it, don't use it! Most people into MTB these days are aware of the short lifespan. And for a bit of information, ISIS was designed for the harder riders out there, I've broken countless Square Taper bb's, either snapping the axle, rounding the axle, or rounding the fitting on the crank.
There is no doubt that ISIS is stronger and stiffer than a Square taper, you've only got 4 points of contact on a square, compared to the 10 on ISIS, do the physics...

Octalink:
Completely different to ISIS, bb's last as long as some Square taper ones, so don't get on your high horse about them.

Hollowtech II/X-type/EXoDrive or whatever all of the companies each call it.
This is by far the best system I've ever used, and I'll give you some reasons:

1.Compatability: you buy one set for any bike, no more "What size is your bb shell sir?" and "what is your axle length?" you just space is out accordingly. IS that another marketing gimmick to make you buy more shit? Don't think so.

2.Bearings: So we all know ISIS last 5 minutes because the axle is so dammed big, you can't fit big enough bearings in the shell to handle the load? Fsa have done a good job with the platinum's and tapered the diameter of the axle down in the middle to accommodate bigger bearings, but they still don't last as long as a square.
So on that principle, surely you'd understand Shimano going for out board bearings? There's a limit to what you can fit inside the shell, but you can use far bigger ones on the outside... which are also closer to the crank so less leverage on them? Good idea? Yep.

3.Sealing: one of the reasons older ISIS bb's failed was that there was no sealing on the inside... "not an issue" you may say.
Be a mechanic for a week, and see how many shagged bb's are due to mini River Thames starting in the bb shell. Through washing, or even muddy rides, there's usually a hole somewhere around the bb area where corr blimey gets in!

One final comment on 9 vs. 8spd:
8spd will always be stronger because of the width of the chain... same thing applies to the huge-ass bmx chains, and I know a few mates who race Dh with me that use 8 speed still and swear by it.

Unfortunately for you, all the development is in 9spd at the moment, and I don't think Sram/Shimano and everybody else would bring it out if they didn't think it was worth it... if it was crap, no-one would buy it, and they'd have to sell 8-speed.

Stop moaning, go ride yer bike, and stop being so abusive to people who are putting forward valid points.

And snobs? Kids on Saracens?

Ya know what?

I'd rather see some 12y.o. on a battered Saracen, banging down a hill, living with the fact he properly can't afford to fix his bike but really enjoying the ride, than some old faggot who spends too much time moaning about how bike parts wear out to quickly [}:)]

<hr noshade size="1">[another random post by]
BiGDaVe![}:)]
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url=http://photo.pinkbike.com/photo/403/pbpic403575.jpg]Chameleon1[/url url=http://photo.pinkbike.com/photo/403/pbpic403579.jpg]Chameleon2[/url [Ashton Justice] url=http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/325/pbpic325922.jpg]His and Hers[/url url=http://photo.pinkbike.com/photo/499/pbpic499538.jpg]Patriot Drive Side[/url url=http://photo.pinkbike.com/photo/499/pbpic499539.jpg]Patriot NonDrive[/url
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whyamihere: "A whole new meaning to the term 'blow job'."</center>
<center>Apologies for engagement induced excitement[^]</center>

clarkee · June 2005

well ive had a rohloff chain since november, and i ran it with gears until christmas and then went singlespeed. now this snaps most gear chains but not this one. i hardly ever lube it (i find it just tends to clog stuff up).
yeah, has to be said that isis is a bit cr.ap, but square taper is worse.
wd40 just turns into soot and clogs everything up.

however, my isis axle is cracked in half after 5 months (its a truvativ downhill one) and the hussefelt cranks flex loads. im fed up of innovation so im going for bmx style 3 pieces. youre bikes might be the height of technology but my one will work.............

...____
../____../______..[Sanjeev's|
[_Paki___ |
[_Shop_ _|

whyamihere · June 2005

Well, I agree with you on one point, 9 speed chains. They are weak.

However, bottom brackets. Yes, ISIS has bearings which are too small. But ST axles are small, weak and liable to flex. There is a system which addresses both of these issues. External bearing bottom brackets. They have a large axle which gives a good, strong, stiff interface with the cranks, and also have huge bearings which won't wear out quickly. They're also incredibly easy to remove for maintenance.

Bad Ass · June 2005

Big Dave, i'm glad you said that, I wouldn't have had the patience to write all that. but I can see that in his eyes he'll still be <s>right</s> a moaning old twat

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by General Reign-Mack

was going to say, you can tell a lot about a man from the way he keeps his desktop and that dont look like the desk top of a skirt wearing man <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
[:X]the Dr Jekyll -
[:0]the Stinky - (now updated big style but no pics yet!)
[:(!] guess who? its me!!!!!
[}:)] latest tattoo, got in january

9speedsucks · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by BiGDaVe

Unfortunately for you, all the development is in 9spd at the moment, and I don't think Sram/Shimano and everybody else would bring it out if they didn't think it was worth it... if it was crap, no-one would buy it, and they'd have to sell 8-speed.

black][/center]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Note to self: doesn't know anything about marketing and hype.

9speedsucks · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by whyamihere

Well, I agree with you on one point, 9 speed chains. They are weak.

However, bottom brackets. Yes, ISIS has bearings which are too small. But ST axles are small, weak and liable to flex. There is a system which addresses both of these issues. External bearing bottom brackets. They have a large axle which gives a good, strong, stiff interface with the cranks, and also have huge bearings which won't wear out quickly. They're also incredibly easy to remove for maintenance.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't believe that anyone here can flex a sq taper bracket. If something is flexing, it is more likely to be the bottom bracket shell.

I wonder how long those hollow aluminium axles will last? Probably as long as me on Bad Ass' mom.

Bad Ass · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by 9speedsucks

Probably as long as me on Bad Ass' mom.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

oh hillarious, again find another joke.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by General Reign-Mack

was going to say, you can tell a lot about a man from the way he keeps his desktop and that dont look like the desk top of a skirt wearing man <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
[:X]the Dr Jekyll -
[:0]the Stinky - (now updated big style but no pics yet!)
[:(!] guess who? its me!!!!!
[}:)] latest tattoo, got in january

9speedsucks · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Bad Ass

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by 9speedsucks

Probably as long as me on Bad Ass' mom.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

oh hillarious, again find another joke.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by General Reign-Mack

was going to say, you can tell a lot about a man from the way he keeps his desktop and that dont look like the desk top of a skirt wearing man <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
[:X]the Dr Jekyll -
[:0]the Stinky - (now updated big style but no pics yet!)
[:(!] guess who? its me!!!!!
[}:)] latest tattoo, got in january
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't have a huge reportoire. It's either your mum or your Apollo.

Or your little winky.

murray6969 · June 2005

this guy is a hard core chode muncher

9speedsucks · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by murray6969

this guy is a hard core chode muncher
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Only your sister's chode.

rob_mcc_uk · June 2005

how old do you say you are? coz your insults sound like the crap my little 15yr old brother comes out with

<center>project GREEN MACHINE has arrived heres the pics</center>
<center>Jackflash Driveside</center><center>Jackflash Front</center><center>Jackflash Rear</center>
<center>Im in desperate need of a hope dh4 half calaper no3 if anyone has any leads please email me rob_mcc_uk@homail.com</center>

Anonymous · June 2005

i agree with the weakness on 9speed with you but square taper is weak as splash and dash, i snapped 2 axles with not much hard riding on them, and they were correctly fitted tightened to the right torque and what not, hollowtech 2 style is easily the way to go chain line is adjustable by the use of spacers, from what ive read it just seems your just on an anti corporation band wagon and fail to accept other peoples views on things, and if you've a problem with 9speed did you have the same rant when 8 speed came out??

You know you Make me Breakout

Nothing says "ouch" like a punctured gut

magnus · June 2005

I still ride with 8 speed and would agree with some of your views but since your such a splash and dashing bellend i am not going to argue your case with you.

<center>Maxlight
</center>
<center><blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by poc

Chasealex iz a ooooooh! boy
i h8 all of u
u all suk de cok

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></center><center>2005 mbuk forum awards best rider</center><center>I_ride_with_style is a cunt</center>

Rant: 9 speed and bottom bracket folly

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