Rant: 9 speed and bottom bracket folly

nicklouse · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by 9speedsucks
[br
I don't agree.

My chain cleaning was thorough and oil is vital.

1. I jet washed the chain (being careful not to direct water into bearings). Jet washer held downwards whilst back-pedalling.

2. I then dried and flushed liberally with WD40.

3. I then applied Finish Line or good old 3in1.

Has anyone here (with strength, muscles, and weight) moved back to 8 speed cos 9 speed is wimpy crap?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

1: your first mistake.
2: your second mistake.
3: What finish line product? 3-1 another mistake.

to be honest i am suprised that your chain lasted that long with all that abuse.

btw i have strength and muscle and weight and have yet to have any problems with 9spd in the last 6 years.

nick
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Tartanyak · June 2005

I've never actually had a problem with 9 speed - single front ring for me though. I'm 13 stone and tend to ride in a gear that's too high. Way too high in fact. I'm not too good with the old regulated cadance and prefer just trying to power through. I've an SRAM setup, PC59 chain and I forget which cassette to be honest - Currently on my second chain in 2 years, doing about 700 or so miles in a year. That was only due to a minor problem involving some spilt paint.

As for cleaning it, to make it last that long I dipped it in degreaser, wiped it, wiped lube around it a bit, wiggled it, got bored, wanged it back on the bike and showed it picture of David Hasselhoff and puppies to scare away the water.

As for cranks, I shall give my opinion soon on the difference between square taper and octolink as I've just changed. My previous bottom bracket - Shimano LX square taper - lasted since 2001 until over last spring when it started to do a good impression of a concrete mixer. So, new BB and I put on my spare cranks (Old XT hollowtech ones, seemed like a good idea at the time). How durable it is, we shall soon see.

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nicklouse · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by 9speedsucks

Yes I know that. I have 2 C&G's, 2 BTEC NC's, and a 2:1 BEng Hons and I have been riding for 20 years.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

only been riding for 20 years.

re the C&G's, Btec's nuff said!

2:1 Eng degree! Fair enuff. but you did not learn much about Oil and lubricants did you. Or why the Square taper is a bad design!

nick
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9speedsucks · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by nicklouse

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by 9speedsucks

Yes I know that. I have 2 C&G's, 2 BTEC NC's, and a 2:1 BEng Hons and I have been riding for 20 years.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

only been riding for 20 years.

re the C&G's, Btec's nuff said!

2:1 Eng degree! Fair enuff. but you did not learn much about Oil and lubricants did you. Or why the Square taper is a bad design!

nick
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<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Why is the square taper a bad design? I have weighed as much as 15st and ruined chains in less than 400 miles. And yet I have NEVER hurt a sq taper bottom bracket or crank. I own a torque wrnech. Do you think that might be the reason?

I suspect that since industry needs to develop to survive, the latest BB incarnations are simply products looking for a market. Products looking for a reason. Dual control is another prime example of a stupid product looking for a reason.

Why have Campagnolo kept with the sq taper?

ISIS is greatly inferior to Sq taper. Or at least, it is as inferior. Why? Sq Taper might be fallible at the BB/crank interface (if you don't tighten it down to the correct torque or you do HUGE drops), but ISIS is fallible at the bearings from normal everyday riding! Sp which failure mode do you prefer?

And before you say that change is inevitable. All I can say is B0ll0cks. OOOps! I mean Biopace.

9speedsucks · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by nicklouse

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by 9speedsucks
[br
I don't agree.

My chain cleaning was thorough and oil is vital.

1. I jet washed the chain (being careful not to direct water into bearings). Jet washer held downwards whilst back-pedalling.

2. I then dried and flushed liberally with WD40.

3. I then applied Finish Line or good old 3in1.

Has anyone here (with strength, muscles, and weight) moved back to 8 speed cos 9 speed is wimpy crap?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

1: your first mistake.
2: your second mistake.
3: What finish line product? 3-1 another mistake.

to be honest i am suprised that your chain lasted that long with all that abuse.

btw i have strength and muscle and weight and have yet to have any problems with 9spd in the last 6 years.

nick
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<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You are not very logical. Jet washing a chain is a great idea since it displaces all grit that has made its way into the bearings. The problem with young people like yourself is you find it hard to think in between black and white. There is grey. Jet wash on bearings is baaaaadddddd! All Jet washing must be baaaaaaaaaad! Must never jet wash. For jet washing is baaaaaaaaaaaaad! Baaaaa Baaaaa

Some people prefer to remove the chain and stick it in a large coke bottle with degreaser and shake till clean. I prefer careful directed use of a jet wash.

Besides.. even when I used 'dry nonsense mega œœœ' lubriapples, I still managed to stretch chains in less than 400 miles.

So again, this debate isn't about your pseudo technical superiority. Thsi thread is about the folly of 9 speed.

Wimpy. Not robust. Deliberately under-engineered? 9 speed.

Case closed. 9 speed should die.

Hopefully the Rohloff internal hub (or similar) will gain popularity and come down in cost. Cos I think an internal hub with a nice thick BMX chain sounds ideal for mountain biking.

9speedsucks · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by 9speedsucks

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by nicklouse

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by 9speedsucks
[br
I don't agree.

My chain cleaning was thorough and oil is vital.

1. I jet washed the chain (being careful not to direct water into bearings). Jet washer held downwards whilst back-pedalling.

2. I then dried and flushed liberally with WD40.

3. I then applied Finish Line or good old 3in1.

Has anyone here (with strength, muscles, and weight) moved back to 8 speed cos 9 speed is wimpy crap?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

1: your first mistake.
2: your second mistake.
3: What finish line product? 3-1 another mistake.

to be honest i am suprised that your chain lasted that long with all that abuse.

btw i have strength and muscle and weight and have yet to have any problems with 9spd in the last 6 years.

nick
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<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You are not very logical. Jet washing a chain is a great idea since it displaces all grit that has made its way into the ROLERS. The problem with young people like yourself is you find it hard to think in between black and white. There is grey. Jet wash on bearings is baaaaadddddd! All Jet washing must therefore be baaaaaaaaaad! Must never jet wash. For jet washing is baaaaaaaaaaaaad! Baaaaa Baaaaa

Some people prefer to remove the chain and stick it in a large coke bottle with degreaser and shake till clean. I prefer careful directed use of a jet wash.

Besides.. even when I used 'dry nonsense mega œœœ' lubriapples, and no jet wash.. I still managed to stretch chains in less than 400 miles.

So again, this debate isn't about your pseudo technical superiority. This thread is about the folly of 9 speed.

Wimpy. Not robust. Deliberately under-engineered? 9 speed.

Case closed. 9 speed should die.

Hopefully the Rohloff internal hub (or similar) will gain popularity and come down in cost. Cos I think an internal hub with a nice thick BMX chain sounds ideal for mountain biking.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Had to make a few changes. Just before some dullard points out any mistakes. No... I didn't direct the jet wash at bearings.

lacuna · June 2005

my XC bike is running a '98 XT drive with a '00 sram cassette and chain. square BB obviously. its still running ok but i wouldn't trust the gears.

messin about bike has singlespeed with 8 speed chain and isis BB. no problems there.

dh bike has X9 shifting, pc99 chain and XT cassette. also saints, hollowtech II BB obviously. this has better performance than anything else i currently own or have owned.

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Tartanyak · June 2005

After a rather bored lunch break at work I've found a couple of things:

The chain you bought seems to be, on the whole, worth the money. Lots of people saying how good they are, that they never need to be replaced and comments along those lines... Unfortunately there's the odd remark to the opposite. Very fast catastrophic failure.

Manufacturing fault on your chain maybe? I'm guessing you'd not like me mentioning an incorrect setup that's brought the worst out in it, but I will anyway.

In the end, 9 speed may not be burly enough for you, but that doesn't mean it should die as it's perfectly fine for a hell of a lot of people. Every single technology has it's pro's and con's - this one sounds like it's more con for you. So change it.

Thinking about the bottom brackets too, you mentioned the faults of both square taper and octalink/ISIS. If you were doing a lot of the large drops you mentioned would kill a square tapered which failure would you prefer? The devil-you-know that is gradual wear on the octalink, or the sudden and possibly painful failure of a square taper?

From the sounds it's like your rant is about that you've not bought something suitable for you and are paying for it now.

Also, you'll find that saying
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> The problem with young people like yourself is you find it hard to think in between black and white. There is grey. Jet wash on bearings is baaaaadddddd! All Jet washing must therefore be baaaaaaaaaad! Must never jet wash. For jet washing is baaaaaaaaaaaaad! Baaaaa Baaaaa <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
, especially to Nicklouse, doesn't make you look the brightest even if you are the one of many with a good part of the alphabet after your name.

<center>Shock horror, unbroken sidekick!</center>

9speedsucks · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Tartanyak

After a rather bored lunch break at work I've found a couple of things:

The chain you bought seems to be, on the whole, worth the money. Lots of people saying how good they are, that they never need to be replaced and comments along those lines... Unfortunately there's the odd remark to the opposite. Very fast catastrophic failure.

Manufacturing fault on your chain maybe? I'm guessing you'd not like me mentioning an incorrect setup that's brought the worst out in it, but I will anyway.

In the end, 9 speed may not be burly enough for you, but that doesn't mean it should die as it's perfectly fine for a hell of a lot of people. Every single technology has it's pro's and con's - this one sounds like it's more con for you. So change it.

Thinking about the bottom brackets too, you mentioned the faults of both square taper and octalink/ISIS. If you were doing a lot of the large drops you mentioned would kill a square tapered which failure would you prefer? The devil-you-know that is gradual wear on the octalink, or the sudden and possibly painful failure of a square taper?

From the sounds it's like your rant is about that you've not bought something suitable for you and are paying for it now.

Also, you'll find that saying
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> The problem with young people like yourself is you find it hard to think in between black and white. There is grey. Jet wash on bearings is baaaaadddddd! All Jet washing must therefore be baaaaaaaaaad! Must never jet wash. For jet washing is baaaaaaaaaaaaad! Baaaaa Baaaaa <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
, especially to Nicklouse, doesn't make you look the brightest even if you are the one of many with a good part of the alphabet after your name.

<center>Shock horror, unbroken sidekick!</center>
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I do all my own maintenance and I can build one hell of a wheel. There is nothing wrong with my maintenance regime or set-up.

Nicklouse doesn't seem to know very much.

ISIS is dead. Octalink didn't catch on. Both splined systems suffered from backlash wear of the interface and poor longevity. And offboard seems kinda stupid.

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is Godzilla!

The Joe Show · June 2005

1 question;

Are you here to rant, or receive advice? People have offered advice and if you deem yourself too old and wise to accept it then generally, why don't you fuck off back to your grand garage and go jet wash your bike some more.

Just because you don't like a technology doesn't mean you have to have a go at everyone who does you ignorant twat.

ISIS isn't dead, it's only just begun, as with the introduction of ISIS BBs with External Bearings, which are the next big thing and have already proved there success on a multiple of levels, Saints for DH/Freeride/Drops and abuse, XT Hollowtech II's for XC.

Although i'm sure you don't agree, so you'll probably claim that I have shit bikes, thus i'm an inbred.

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</center><hr noshade size="1"><center>How 'bout a cup full of shut the f*ck up?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by break and enter

Boulder, you look like an emo Marilyn Manson.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></center>

9speedsucks · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by boulder

1 question;

Are you here to rant, or receive advice? People have offered advice and if you deem yourself too old and wise to accept it then generally, why don't you fuck off back to your grand garage and go jet wash your bike some more.

Just because you don't like a technology doesn't mean you have to have a go at everyone who does you ignorant twat.

ISIS isn't dead, it's only just begun, as with the introduction of ISIS BBs with External Bearings, which are the next big thing and have already proved there success on a multiple of levels, Saints for DH/Freeride/Drops and abuse, XT Hollowtech II's for XC.

Although i'm sure you don't agree, so you'll probably claim that I have shit bikes, thus i'm an inbred.

<hr noshade size="1"><center>4X/Street XC/Commute
</center><hr noshade size="1"><center>How 'bout a cup full of shut the f*ck up?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by break and enter

Boulder, you look like an emo Marilyn Manson.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></center>
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

How is your Saracen?

Bad Ass · June 2005

9 speed, havn't you some children to be molestering? you honestly are a numpty,

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by General Reign-Mack

was going to say, you can tell a lot about a man from the way he keeps his desktop and that dont look like the desk top of a skirt wearing man <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
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[:0]the Stinky - (now updated big style but no pics yet!)
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9speedsucks · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Bad Ass

9 speed, havn't you some children to be molestering? you honestly are a numpty,

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by General Reign-Mack

was going to say, you can tell a lot about a man from the way he keeps his desktop and that dont look like the desk top of a skirt wearing man <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
[:X]the Dr Jekyll -
[:0]the Stinky - (now updated big style but no pics yet!)
[:(!] guess who? its me!!!!!
[}:)] latest tattoo, got in january
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Speaking of Apollo owners.....

Bad Ass · June 2005

what apollo, cock end?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by General Reign-Mack

was going to say, you can tell a lot about a man from the way he keeps his desktop and that dont look like the desk top of a skirt wearing man <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
[:X]the Dr Jekyll -
[:0]the Stinky - (now updated big style but no pics yet!)
[:(!] guess who? its me!!!!!
[}:)] latest tattoo, got in january

9speedsucks · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Bad Ass

what apollo, cock end?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by General Reign-Mack

was going to say, you can tell a lot about a man from the way he keeps his desktop and that dont look like the desk top of a skirt wearing man <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
[:X]the Dr Jekyll -
[:0]the Stinky - (now updated big style but no pics yet!)
[:(!] guess who? its me!!!!!
[}:)] latest tattoo, got in january
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You have an Apollo chic-chic-chic-chic-chicken End?

I am oh so jealous.

Does it have 9 speed?

Bad Ass · June 2005

I dont quite fully understand, are you so thick you can't read? there is no apollo, if you talking about the identiti, yeah it is 9 speed, and single ring at the font, and far more superior and worth more than you ever will be.

delete this thread, or move it to the sandbox, nothing to do with tech at all, its just another fuckwit trying to prove he's got more intelligence than a mouldy spud

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by General Reign-Mack

was going to say, you can tell a lot about a man from the way he keeps his desktop and that dont look like the desk top of a skirt wearing man <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
[:X]the Dr Jekyll -
[:0]the Stinky - (now updated big style but no pics yet!)
[:(!] guess who? its me!!!!!
[}:)] latest tattoo, got in january

Bad Ass · June 2005

if you can't prove your point and have to resort to "trying" to insult people with oh look at your saracen, oh look at your apollo (which I can't see what on earth your talking about) then you really are a sad sad <s>individual</s>, <s>man</s>, boy

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by General Reign-Mack

was going to say, you can tell a lot about a man from the way he keeps his desktop and that dont look like the desk top of a skirt wearing man <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
[:X]the Dr Jekyll -
[:0]the Stinky - (now updated big style but no pics yet!)
[:(!] guess who? its me!!!!!
[}:)] latest tattoo, got in january

9speedsucks · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Bad Ass

I dont quite fully understand, are you so thick you can't read? there is no apollo, if you talking about the identiti, yeah it is 9 speed, and single ring at the font, and far more superior and worth more than you ever will be.

delete this thread, or move it to the sandbox, nothing to do with tech at all, its just another fuckwit trying to prove he's got more intelligence than a mouldy spud

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by General Reign-Mack

was going to say, you can tell a lot about a man from the way he keeps his desktop and that dont look like the desk top of a skirt wearing man <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
[:X]the Dr Jekyll -
[:0]the Stinky - (now updated big style but no pics yet!)
[:(!] guess who? its me!!!!!
[}:)] latest tattoo, got in january
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No this thread is entirely valid. I wished to talk about the folly of 9 speed. Specifically I wanted to address whether 9 speed chains were just a little too weak to have any serious merit.

BMX chains last forever. With a bit of leg strength and weight, 9 speed chains can be stretched by more than 1/8 of an inch in one hard ride or certainly within 400 miles or less.

Thus 9 speed is either a cynical way for manufacturers to extract more and more money from gullible consumers and/or is under-engineered by design.

I wanted a 9 speed discussion. I didn't want nonsense about how I didn't look after the chain (I did) or how my jet-washing ruined it (it didn't) or how it is fine for 12 year old midgets on Saracens (Bad Ass).

I am not the only person that is questioning the wisdom of 9 speed design and the constraints they place on the chain and ring thickness.

œ35 for 2 months worth of fairly easy riding is not acceptable. Thus I would also liked to have heard riders talk about how cheaper chains (changed more frequently) may be the best option. After all, the difference between a PC59 and PC69 is irrelevant when considering chain wear i.e. the chain will wear at the same rate DESPITE the addition of nickel plating to the insides of the plates. They are still the same chain.

I have found a place selling PC970's for œ10.. so I will buy 3 to keep me going on bike no.1.

Bike no.2 will get 8 speed. And again, my options for 8 speed are limited. Just like my options for 8 speed are limited. Hence, I feel bulied to accept continual unnecessary upgrades and changes.

I just made the mistake of discussing such on a forum for teenagers.

Bad Ass · June 2005

yeah your right, we're all teenagers, not that im in my 20's at all, and a good proportion of the members are not teenagers in the slightest.

its not a tech question at all, your just trying to argue a point that you have. now run along and stack some more shelves at aldi

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by General Reign-Mack

was going to say, you can tell a lot about a man from the way he keeps his desktop and that dont look like the desk top of a skirt wearing man <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
[:X]the Dr Jekyll -
[:0]the Stinky - (now updated big style but no pics yet!)
[:(!] guess who? its me!!!!!
[}:)] latest tattoo, got in january

9speedsucks · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Bad Ass

yeah your right, we're all teenagers, not that im in my 20's at all, and a good proportion of the members are not teenagers in the slightest.

its not a tech question at all, your just trying to argue a point that you have. now run along and stack some more shelves at aldi

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by General Reign-Mack

was going to say, you can tell a lot about a man from the way he keeps his desktop and that dont look like the desk top of a skirt wearing man <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
[:X]the Dr Jekyll -
[:0]the Stinky - (now updated big style but no pics yet!)
[:(!] guess who? its me!!!!!
[}:)] latest tattoo, got in january
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It is a tech question.

Why is 9 speed so much weaker than 7 or 8 speed?

Is 9 speed under-engineered?

Do you have an Apollo or a Saracen?

Bad Ass · June 2005

I'm not saying at all that 9 speed is any weaker or stronger than 7 or 8 speed at all, at the end of the day its each to their own.

as for the apollo or saracen, I don't or ever have owned either even as a child. I own a kona stinky, which is soon to be a big hit as from this weekend and also identiti Dr Jekyll. Also more to the point what bike I own has nothing to do with your arguement.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by General Reign-Mack

was going to say, you can tell a lot about a man from the way he keeps his desktop and that dont look like the desk top of a skirt wearing man <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
[:X]the Dr Jekyll -
[:0]the Stinky - (now updated big style but no pics yet!)
[:(!] guess who? its me!!!!!
[}:)] latest tattoo, got in january

9speedsucks · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Bad Ass

I'm not saying at all that 9 speed is any weaker or stronger than 7 or 8 speed at all, at the end of the day its each to their own.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

How terribly enlightening and insightful.

BrightonBryn · June 2005

You seem to be basing your opinion of nine speed systems on one event i.e. that you wore one out in 400 miles - the fact that many other people have mentioned that they have not had the same problem does not seem to have registered.

You are also arguing against yourself - it is true that from an engineering point of view a thicker chain and sprockets (8spd) should be stronger and last longer than 9spd however you're also arguing for square taper bottom brackets which are a weaker solution than splined ones - your problem with durability has also been addressed previously - as mountain bike riding has become more technical and riders are trying to puch the limits as far as trick etc axle strength has become a greater priority to many riders than bearing durability, however with the new shimano HollowTech II stuff the out-board bearings should also address this issue.

Again I would suggest that belittling Nicklouse as a "young rider" who knows nothing is a big and probably deliberate mistake as if you had looked at most of the tech threads on this forum he is considered to be an authority on bicycle maintanence.

Bad Ass · June 2005

you asked for my opinion, and to be honest I gave my opinion. if you dont like it then thats up to you, I'm not going to turn around and go, "oh yeah 9speedsuckscock was right, he's a legend". I bet your a barrel of laughs down the pub.....

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by General Reign-Mack

was going to say, you can tell a lot about a man from the way he keeps his desktop and that dont look like the desk top of a skirt wearing man <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
[:X]the Dr Jekyll -
[:0]the Stinky - (now updated big style but no pics yet!)
[:(!] guess who? its me!!!!!
[}:)] latest tattoo, got in january

Bad Ass · June 2005

BrightonBryn, this guy would argue anything, he'd probably argue that park tools are a bunch of cowboys and halfords bikehut is where its at

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by General Reign-Mack

was going to say, you can tell a lot about a man from the way he keeps his desktop and that dont look like the desk top of a skirt wearing man <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
[:X]the Dr Jekyll -
[:0]the Stinky - (now updated big style but no pics yet!)
[:(!] guess who? its me!!!!!
[}:)] latest tattoo, got in january

lacuna · June 2005

If you actually wanted to discuss durability issues in 9 speed systems then perhaps you should accept that there are 2 sides to the coin, not everybody has had problems with 9 speed.

I love my saracen by the way.

<center><h5>Muni-Mula</h5></center><center><h3>Fresh Havoc</h3><h5>Xile</h5></center>

9speedsucks · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by BrightonBryn

You seem to be basing your opinion of nine speed systems on one event i.e. that you wore one out in 400 miles - the fact that many other people have mentioned that they have not had the same problem does not seem to have registered.

You are also arguing against yourself - it is true that from an engineering point of view a thicker chain and sprockets (8spd) should be stronger and last longer than 9spd however you're also arguing for square taper bottom brackets which are a weaker solution than splined ones - your problem with durability has also been addressed previously - as mountain bike riding has become more technical and riders are trying to puch the limits as far as trick etc axle strength has become a greater priority to many riders than bearing durability, however with the new shimano HollowTech II stuff the out-board bearings should also address this issue.

Again I would suggest that belittling Nicklouse as a "young rider" who knows nothing is a big and probably deliberate mistake as if you had looked at most of the tech threads on this forum he is considered to be an authority on bicycle maintanence.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Have a look round on the net. Plenty of people are complaining about the longevity of 9 speed systems.

I consider Nicky Mouse to be the authority on Appolo bike maintenance.

secondtimeuser · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by 9speedsucks
Why have Campagnolo kept with the sq taper?

ISIS is greatly inferior to Sq taper. Or at least, it is as inferior. Why? Sq Taper might be fallible at the BB/crank interface (if you don't tighten it down to the correct torque or you do HUGE drops), but ISIS is fallible at the bearings from normal everyday riding! Sp which failure mode do you prefer?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Perhaps Campag stuck with it because road riding is a little less violent on parts than most (if not all) aspects of MTB?

And exactly how can square taper BBs be superior to everything else around when it was nigh-on impossible to achieve correct chainline? How could little ol' me manage to destroy 4 square taper BBs in 8 months with not exceptionally heavy or demanding riding?

If you want an adjustable, long lasting, stiff and easy to fit crank set-up, external bearings are certainly the way forward. As for your nine-speed issues, go back to 8 if it bothers you that much. 9 seems to work fine for virtually everyone else, so stop complaining about it and go riding.

<center>DH, FR, DJ, Street, Skatepark, Trials, XC ~ Bike
<h6>Answer Blackspire Brand-X Brooklyn Machine Works Chris King Clarks DTSwiss E13 Easton Gusset I.D. Kenda Marzocchi Mavic Mission RaceFace Shimano Sram Titec</h6>Comments?</center>

Bad Ass · June 2005

well said secondtimeuser, now can we get rid of this idiot yet?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by General Reign-Mack

was going to say, you can tell a lot about a man from the way he keeps his desktop and that dont look like the desk top of a skirt wearing man <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
[:X]the Dr Jekyll -
[:0]the Stinky - (now updated big style but no pics yet!)
[:(!] guess who? its me!!!!!
[}:)] latest tattoo, got in january

secondtimeuser · June 2005

oh and i forgot to remind everyone that Campag now make 10 speed systems...

<center>DH, FR, DJ, Street, Skatepark, Trials, XC ~ Bike
<h6>Answer Blackspire Brand-X Brooklyn Machine Works Chris King Clarks DTSwiss E13 Easton Gusset I.D. Kenda Marzocchi Mavic Mission RaceFace Shimano Sram Titec</h6>Comments?</center>

Rant: 9 speed and bottom bracket folly

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