Rant: 9 speed and bottom bracket folly

9speedsucks · June 2005

As I wrote this I am beginning to question whether I want to bother with cycling anymore. Why? Having not cycled for 3 years, I was so excited when I built my new bike. Top quality. Everything XT quality or higher. I remembered thrashing chains and rings quickly 3 years ago, but was confident that with religious cleaning I would be ok.

But, I have worn out a Rohloff SLT 99 chain in less than 400 miles. I hadn't felt it necessary to measure earlier, so the cassette is probably marmaladeed as well. The chain now measures 12 and 1/8 over 12 links. I am a real nerd when it comes to cleaning. That bloody chain got washed and rinsed and oiled every bloody ride. I even carried a little oil and a rag (to wipe the chain down) with me in my saddle bag.

Less than 400 miles from a high-end œ30 chain is pathetic.

Why do we need 9 speed exactly? It's all marketing nonsense. And my suspicious nature can't help but wonder whether modern drivechains are built for wimps or designed specifically to be replaced more often than necassary. It's a total waste of metals and money.

And whilst we are on the subject of crap parts. Bottom brackets. What the hell is going on? On my re-entry into mountain bike land, I am greeted with multiple choice... square taper is all but gone, and instead I am faced with ISIS (crap bearings), Octalink, Octalink II, Offboard Bearing...

What was wrong with square taper exactly? When considering the chain/drivechain wimpiness, I can only conclude that again, the powers that be (shimano et al) thought 'hey! square taper BB's are good value and they are lasting too long, we'll have to do something about that!!'

What a total load of crap. I might as well just keep to driving my car and sell my bike to an 8 stone weakling.

Rant over.

DaveKristKurt · June 2005

stop moaning

sq has not dissapeared
but there are just less available now
ISIS is stronger and last longer/harder to break.

<h1><center>ScottMcG</center></h1>

parryman · June 2005

obviously a chain should last longer than that, no idea why it has gone so quickly.
As for the BB choices, square taper was shit, hence its demise. always coming loose, and rounding off, i killed a set of cranks in 2 months of commuting due to rounding off.
ISIS is ok, but the bearings are too small for the loads it bears. Octalink lasts abit alonger.
External BBs have bigger balls and dont get destroyed as quickly, its the way forward (aparently)

<hr noshade size="1">*)
. .*).*)
(. (.' *the Amazing ParryMan

<center>'We ride with Kings on mighty steeds across the devils plain'</center>

nicklouse · June 2005

you used OIL?

thats where you went wrong.

also over cleaning promotes wear! it is easier to remove the lube than to put it back.

square taper. ones fitted it is bucketed as it is now distorted and hardened. Also it is a crap engineering solution.

also square taper was on the way out about 5 years ago.

sram pc69 chains on my bikes and no probs.

you do know you could have gone 10spd.

nick
<hr noshade size="1">
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fatwhippet · June 2005

i can sympathise with you mate, ive got an xt cassette, rings and sram pc something chain. They are all packing in after just 5 weeks of riding! and thats not in mud to be honest. its dry days, regular cleaning regimes.

As for lube i use this sythetic stuff.

GT Zaskar Team and my brothers Avalanche 0.0
http://img221.echo.cx/my.php?image=dscf01745mo.jpg

Aint summer brilliant!
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9speedsucks · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DaveKristKurt

stop moaning

sq has not dissapeared
but there are just less available now
ISIS is stronger and last longer/harder to break.

<h1><center>ScottMcG</center></h1>

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

ISIS might be stiffer, but it doesn't last as long as SQ taper. This is proven fact. The bearings are smaller.

Great... 15 year old Saracen owners are answering my questions.

9speedsucks · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Parryman

obviously a chain should last longer than that, no idea why it has gone so quickly.
As for the BB choices, square taper was shit, hence its demise. always coming loose, and rounding off, i killed a set of cranks in 2 months of commuting due to rounding off.
ISIS is ok, but the bearings are too small for the loads it bears. Octalink lasts abit alonger.
External BBs have bigger balls and dont get destroyed as quickly, its the way forward (aparently)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I weigh between 13 and 15st depending on how much weight training and eating I am doing.

I never ever had a problem with sq taper.

But anyway... it's the chain I am angry about.

My LBS said that I would be better buying cheaper chains in bulk and replacing them every month. So I will do this. What's the best cheap chain?

Jonny · June 2005

grrr people like you annoy me!

as nick said, square taper is a crap idea, and yes, isis isnt much better. but never can there be one perfect solution. new ideas are coming out all the time, technology changes. but at the mo, as hollowtech II/x type becomes more mass market, with the likes of shimano and race face bringing out these new types, isis is the best option for many people. square taper just doesnt stand up as well to abuse.

as for the chain.... you only have yourself to blame. nick is totally right as usual. overcleaning is an awful idea, it speeds up wear. and you used oil! you know why they make chain lube? because its designed for bike chains. maybe occasional clean, degrease and relube of the chain, not constant cleaning, and you would still have it.

as for 'Great... 15 year old Saracen owners are answering my questions.' what can i say but who gives a fuck? plenty of people on here may not have the best bikes in the world, sometimes pretty poor bikes, but does that mean that they are not allowed to answer questions. no.

so STFU, stop complaining, learn how to care for your chains, and if you hate isis so much, go get some hones or saints.

<center>[8D]</center>

9speedsucks · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by nicklouse

you used OIL?

thats where you went wrong.

also over cleaning promotes wear! it is easier to remove the lube than to put it back.

square taper. ones fitted it is bucketed as it is now distorted and hardened. Also it is a crap engineering solution.

also square taper was on the way out about 5 years ago.

sram pc69 chains on my bikes and no probs.

you do know you could have gone 10spd.

nick
<hr noshade size="1">
<center> "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail." </center>
<center>
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 Sheldon Brown Park Tools! Spoke Calculator
older than an old thing that is very old</center>
[?]

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't agree.

My chain cleaning was thorough and oil is vital.

1. I jet washed the chain (being careful not to direct water into bearings). Jet washer held downwards whilst back-pedalling.

2. I then dried and flushed liberally with WD40.

3. I then applied Finish Line or good old 3in1.

Every single ride my chain looked new! After every single ride, my chain didn't look that dirty.

My LBS said that 9 speed is and always was marketing folly.

And I feel ripped off.

Mountain biking companies are becoming too profit hungry. Shimano especially deserve a slap.

I am now currently building up a Planet X Armadillo. I am considering 8 speed because I assume it will last longer. Anyone have any thoughts on SRAM 8 speed rocket shifters?

Has anyone here (with strength, muscles, and weight) moved back to 8 speed cos 9 speed is wimpy crap?

Bad Ass · June 2005

nick is a tech god, I shouldn't imagine he's wrong ever. but most things you've said 9speed, is utter bollocks. square taper was rubbish, external bb's are where its at like on my saints. clean your chain but don't jetwash it!!! bit of tlc and muc off, GT85/WD40/, voila fine.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by General Reign-Mack

was going to say, you can tell a lot about a man from the way he keeps his desktop and that dont look like the desk top of a skirt wearing man <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
[:X]the Dr Jekyll -
[:0]the Stinky - (now updated big style but no pics yet!)
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9speedsucks · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jonny-x

grrr people like you annoy me!

as nick said, square taper is a crap idea, and yes, isis isnt much better. but never can there be one perfect solution. new ideas are coming out all the time, technology changes. but at the mo, as hollowtech II/x type becomes more mass market, with the likes of shimano and race face bringing out these new types, isis is the best option for many people. square taper just doesnt stand up as well to abuse.

as for the chain.... you only have yourself to blame. nick is totally right as usual. overcleaning is an awful idea, it speeds up wear. and you used oil! you know why they make chain lube? because its designed for bike chains. maybe occasional clean, degrease and relube of the chain, not constant cleaning, and you would still have it.

as for 'Great... 15 year old Saracen owners are answering my questions.' what can i say but who gives a fuck? plenty of people on here may not have the best bikes in the world, sometimes pretty poor bikes, but does that mean that they are not allowed to answer questions. no.

so STFU, stop complaining, learn how to care for your chains, and if you hate isis so much, go get some hones or saints.

<center>[8D]</center>
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

And yet SQ Taper lasted MUCH MUCH MUCH longer than ISIS.

Weren't you listening? I did take care of my chain.

Jesus. Is there an adult mountain bike forum anywhere?

Jonny · June 2005

yes you did take care of your chain, i see what you mean, but totally wrong!

<center>[8D]</center>

Bad Ass · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by 9speedsucks

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jonny-x

grrr people like you annoy me!

as nick said, square taper is a crap idea, and yes, isis isnt much better. but never can there be one perfect solution. new ideas are coming out all the time, technology changes. but at the mo, as hollowtech II/x type becomes more mass market, with the likes of shimano and race face bringing out these new types, isis is the best option for many people. square taper just doesnt stand up as well to abuse.

as for the chain.... you only have yourself to blame. nick is totally right as usual. overcleaning is an awful idea, it speeds up wear. and you used oil! you know why they make chain lube? because its designed for bike chains. maybe occasional clean, degrease and relube of the chain, not constant cleaning, and you would still have it.

as for 'Great... 15 year old Saracen owners are answering my questions.' what can i say but who gives a fuck? plenty of people on here may not have the best bikes in the world, sometimes pretty poor bikes, but does that mean that they are not allowed to answer questions. no.

so STFU, stop complaining, learn how to care for your chains, and if you hate isis so much, go get some hones or saints.

<center>[8D]</center>
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

And yet SQ Taper lasted MUCH MUCH MUCH longer than ISIS.

Weren't you listening? I did take care of my chain.

Jesus. Is there an adult mountain bike forum anywhere?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

there is at..

http://www.youaskforadviceonaforumifyoudontlikeitfuckoff.com

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by General Reign-Mack

was going to say, you can tell a lot about a man from the way he keeps his desktop and that dont look like the desk top of a skirt wearing man <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
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[:0]the Stinky - (now updated big style but no pics yet!)
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[}:)] latest tattoo, got in january

9speedsucks · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fatwhippet

i can sympathise with you mate, ive got an xt cassette, rings and sram pc something chain. They are all packing in after just 5 weeks of riding! and thats not in mud to be honest. its dry days, regular cleaning regimes.

As for lube i use this sythetic stuff.

GT Zaskar Team and my brothers Avalanche 0.0
http://img221.echo.cx/my.php?image=dscf01745mo.jpg

Aint summer brilliant!
http://img281.echo.cx/my.php?image=dscf01826go.jpg
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

A sane reply! Thanks.

9speedsucks · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fatwhippet

sram pc 58?

MY BIKE and MY BROTHERS BIKE
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AINT SUMMER BRILLIANT!!!!
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NATURAL TRIALS HEAVEN? PERHAPS
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Yeah.. I think I might give the 58 or 69 or whatever a try... some shops do deals on sets of 3 I think.

Ta

9speedsucks · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jonny-x

as for the chain.... you only have yourself to blame. nick is totally right as usual. overcleaning is an awful idea, it speeds up wear. and you used oil! you know why they make chain lube? because its designed for bike chains. maybe occasional clean, degrease and relube of the chain, not constant cleaning, and you would still have it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Total crap.

rob_mcc_uk · June 2005

you really shouldnt have used 3in one. If youd have used a decent chain lube (a waxy style one) you would have found it should have lasted a little longer. Chains stretch its a fact of life. Remember an 1/8" isnt a lot of distance over all those links so it will happen. You should count yourself lucky that you caught it in time and shouldnt have to replace the cassette.

I do agree with you 9spd sucks. I still run 8spd because i like a little beef in my chains

<center>project GREEN MACHINE has arrived heres the pics</center>
<center>Jackflash Driveside</center><center>Jackflash Front</center><center>Jackflash Rear</center>
<center>Im in desperate need of a hope dh4 half calaper no3 if anyone has any leads please email me rob_mcc_uk@homail.com</center>

secondtimeuser · June 2005

my Sram PC59 chain has lasted over 700 miles with no issues whatsoever, with practically no maintainance.

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stepdot · June 2005

accept that chains are consumable items. change them every 3-4 monts before they destroy rings, cassettes and jockey wheels. spend 4-5 quid

9speedsucks · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rob_mcc_uk

you really shouldnt have used 3in one. If youd have used a decent chain lube (a waxy style one) you would have found it should have lasted a little longer. Chains stretch its a fact of life. Remember an 1/8" isnt a lot of distance over all those links so it will happen. You should count yourself lucky that you caught it in time and shouldnt have to replace the cassette.

I do agree with you 9spd sucks. I still run 8spd because i like a little beef in my chains

<center>project GREEN MACHINE has arrived heres the pics</center>
<center>Jackflash Driveside</center><center>Jackflash Front</center><center>Jackflash Rear</center>
<center>Im in desperate need of a hope dh4 half calaper no3 if anyone has any leads please email me rob_mcc_uk@homail.com</center>
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You an expert on tribology now huh?

Total crap. 3 in 1, Finish Line, motor oil... there really ain't much difference.

I stretched the chain for one reason. 9 speed chains are built for 12 year olds.

fatwhippet · June 2005

they don't really stretch as such mate, its the bushings wearing on the chain that increase the length

MY BIKE and MY BROTHERS BIKE
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AINT SUMMER BRILLIANT!!!!
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9speedsucks · June 2005

Yes I know that. I have 2 C&G's, 2 BTEC NC's, and a 2:1 BEng Hons and I have been riding for 20 years.

The point of this thread is that 9 speed is corr blimey. Built for girls. Built to encourage continued spending and material wastage.

That be da point of dis dooby thwead loike.

Mark _Ride · June 2005

Can I just ask, has this chain stretch in any way affected shifting or any other aspect of the chains performance?

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9speedsucks · June 2005

I give up.

What kind of forum is this?

No-one was able to debate the merits (or otherwise) of 9 speed.

Dum dee dum dum dum.

Mark _Ride · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Why do we need 9 speed exactly?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

'Cos nine is my lucky f*cking number. Get a grip mate, your chain wore out, so you're thinking about giving up biking? Are you gonna ditch your car then, when its timing belt goes?

The Stab:
http://www.pinkbike.com/modules/photo/? ... 65;=233674
Innerleithen:
http://www.davidchadwick.co.uk/Innerlei ... G_7174.htm

m0nstr0 · June 2005

Go singlespeed then if you're so bloody muscular.

<center>My Bike

Driveside - Non-driveside</center>

9speedsucks · June 2005

Well the verdict is in.

This forum has about as much sense or knowledge of biking as Craig from Big Brother.

Congrats.

PS: 9 speed sucks and has always sucked amd most of the 12 year olds here (i.e. most of you) couldn't break a square taper BB.

As long as the companies keep selling us corr blimey that we don't need, they are laughing. 9 speed is all marketing. It's too wimpy and narrow for proper riding. I know people that have splash and dashed a 9 speed chain in ONE ride!!! And most of the gear ratios are identical meaning that it ain't really 27 gears anyway.

roryf · June 2005

look if you dont like this forum (where lots of good advice is exchanged - but not by you) then go away and dont bother posting here you stupid idiot. if theres nothing good about 9 speed then why did you buy it!! just shut up if you dont like us.

Bad Ass · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by 9speedsucks

Well the verdict is in.

This forum has about as much sense or knowledge of biking as Craig from Big Brother.

Congrats.

PS: 9 speed sucks and has always sucked amd most of the 12 year olds here (i.e. most of you) couldn't break a square taper BB.

As long as the companies keep selling us corr blimey that we don't need, they are laughing. 9 speed is all marketing. It's too wimpy and narrow for proper riding. I know people that have splash and dashed a 9 speed chain in ONE ride!!! And most of the gear ratios are identical meaning that it ain't really 27 gears anyway.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

fuck off will you, you whine like a moaning old woman with arthritis. I have no idea why you go throught so many chains, I look after my chain as do the others on here, I don't get through chains at all, one chain thats it and I thrash my bikes. as for "I know people that have splash and dashed a 9 speed chain in ONE ride!!!", what do you want? a medal? 9 speed may not be for some, but it is for others, get over it. Square taper has almost gone, again, get over it. technology does evolve, I bet you own a newish TV, if so what was wrong was the old 1980's tv, it had a picture and sound didn't it? however square taper was rubbish.

well that is unless you live in a house that has stuck in the 70/80's with nothing other than brown/orange/lime green interior.

Mate, have a word

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by General Reign-Mack

was going to say, you can tell a lot about a man from the way he keeps his desktop and that dont look like the desk top of a skirt wearing man <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
[:X]the Dr Jekyll -
[:0]the Stinky - (now updated big style but no pics yet!)
[:(!] guess who? its me!!!!!
[}:)] latest tattoo, got in january

MikeHunt79 · June 2005

Another 9 speed sceptic here... I still run 8 speed on both my bikes, as I find 24 gears is fine. You don't get any higher or lower ratio with 9 speed just more ratios in between. I haven't tried a 9 speed setup yet however, so the jury is still on it out so to speak. I might borrow my mates 9 speed shifter and cassette to see if it's any good as I'm using a 9 speed chain on an 8 speed setup (which isn't ideal I know).

As long as they continue to sell speed cassettes, I'm happy, as it's not a forced upgrade. Admittedly, 8sp shifters are becoming harder to find, but they don't wear out as much as cassette's chains, etc. SRAM attack shifters are avaliable in both 8 or 9 speed and they are v. good apparently.

I say go back to 8 speed and see if you keep snapping chains... and if you happy with square taper then stick with that also. My older bike (2001 hard rock) still has the original square taper BB and crank and is still going stong. Most of the time I only ever upgrade if something breaks or is about to break.

-=.:.=-
And here we see a dyslexic pimp trying to buy a warehouse

9speedsucks · June 2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by MikeHunt79

Another 9 speed sceptic here... I still run 8 speed on both my bikes, as I find 24 gears is fine. You don't get any higher or lower ratio with 9 speed just more ratios in between. I haven't tried a 9 speed setup yet however, so the jury is still on it out so to speak. I might borrow my mates 9 speed shifter and cassette to see if it's any good as I'm using a 9 speed chain on an 8 speed setup (which isn't ideal I know).

As long as they continue to sell speed cassettes, I'm happy, as it's not a forced upgrade. Admittedly, 8sp shifters are becoming harder to find, but they don't wear out as much as cassette's chains, etc. SRAM attack shifters are avaliable in both 8 or 9 speed and they are v. good apparently.

I say go back to 8 speed and see if you keep snapping chains... and if you happy with square taper then stick with that also. My older bike (2001 hard rock) still has the original square taper BB and crank and is still going stong. Most of the time I only ever upgrade if something breaks or is about to break.

-=.:.=-
And here we see a dyslexic pimp trying to buy a warehouse
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks matey. I was thinking of making my next bike 8 speed. Glad to see someone here sees the light.

Rant: 9 speed and bottom bracket folly

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