Today's discussion about the news
Comments
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Worth pointing out that as much as we seem to be applauding the Hollywood drama of all of this, it was quite likely illegal, possibly a war crime, probably an act that will lead to escalation of conflict across a whole region and more deaths.
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Who knew attacking and bombing people was an escalatory move?
Might need a lie down after learning that.
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I guess what you want Israel to do about the paramilitary lobbing rockets into its cities is.....nothing?
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Hezbollah have vowed revenge but do they have the capacity ? Could they decide to go after the Israel lobby in the US or just Jews anywhere ? I believe they were building a terrorism capacity within the usa - no idea how successfully.
What is Israel's aim in doing this - is it a warning to Hezbollah not to try anything or are they goading them into a response to give an excuse for an invasion of Lebanon?
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
An easy start would be to withdraw from the west bank and gaza and implement the two state solution.
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It's the reason Hezbollah are currently lobbing bombs.
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perhaps if they stopped being a terrorist-supporting occupying power, there'd be fewer people attacking them
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
now this is a targeted attack
https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/map/#d:24hrs;@31.70,56.51,13.00z
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
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do you mean the israeli terrorists or the other ones?
i trust neither, they are both revolting
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny1 -
I mean, there's plenty to criticise Israel for - the west bank settlers, apartheid etc. I don't think anyone disagrees there. It is not for nothing Netanyahu is wanted for war crimes.
Israel is not a terrorist state however. That's just Corbyn mouth frothing nonsense, or the Iranian playbook, who of course is financing the otherside of this war.
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They weren't bombing Israel before October.
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It's almost like the Iranian backed paramilitary or terrorist organisations are working together. Remind me, what happened in October to kick this all off again?
Are you discounting the rockets that were fired from Lebanon into Israel in April 2023?
I am genuinely convinced the Iranian calculation was to goad, arm and finance Palastinian and Lebanese paramilitaries to into attacking Israel with the objective to goad Israel into waging a war in an area were civilian casualties will unavoidably be increadibly high, and thus erode the Western support of Israel. With the kind of poor leadership Israel has had for a while, this response was quite predictable.
I think Iran has been remarkably successful in doing so, and I think a lot of the handwringing around IDF conduct rather misses this plainly obvious objective.
I don't think the Iranian leadership gives two shits about civilian casualties outside of their borders.
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There have been ongoing skirmishes since Israel withdrew after losing the war. Nothing like this though.
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any state carrying out terrorist acts is a terrorist state
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
You think they are operating independently of both the Hamas and Iran? You think they've suddenly come into a bunch of Iranian made rockets just at the same time Iran was arming and supporting Hamas troops to make a major terrorist attack by chance?
Iran has been a real beneficiary of the troubles across the middle east, filling the vaccum. It is entirely in their playbook to destabilise that region.
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There is a joke somewhere about all the "boycott israeli goods" and Hezbollah buying their pager off them, but anyway.
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Regardless of whose side you're on, I'm with Rick in that this was a remarkably effective attack.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
If mossad was responsible, and it was an illegal terrorist act, at what point does Israel become a terrorist state?
If Israel's allies turn a blind eye or chose between justified and unjustified terrorism, they doesn't seem to be a good thing to me.
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I'm not really sure I understand the moral problem is with a remarkably closely targeted attack on a paramilitary organisation that has been lobbing rockets at them for the last year.
I get questioning the strategic validity of it, sure. That is israel's big problem at the moment; military action probably gets them further away from an advantageous strategic position.
But if you're going to try to go after Hezbollah members, I can't think of a more effective way to do so.
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Is that the fire from that ammunition depot Brian posted in the Ukraine thread?
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"closely targeted"? you conveniently ignore the dead children, or are they not a "moral problem" for you?
israel has been a relentlessly violent illegal occupying power for decades
imo they are all as bad as each other, none of them can claim any moral justification
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
So instead of being dismissive, go back to the point I raised that the act could be illegal and a possible war crime. This was from Frank Gardener on the beeb.
I think by it's nature it's a terrorist act, because the videos are of explosions in a public market. As far as am aware, Israel is also not actually at war with Lebanon.
So. Setting off bombs in public places in a country you are not at war with.
Fighting the just fight? Who gets to decide?
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I can’t think of a more targeted way. Can you?
Surely you must recognise that if the enemy hides amongst civilians, there is a high likelihood of civilian casualties?
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Whether they are officially at war or not is a rather moot point as they have been bombing each other for a while now.
The supermarekt video is quite a good example of how targeted it was. Only the possessor of the pager was hurt.
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It's not a moot point, it's potentially the difference between terrorism and a war crime. Not being an international law specialist, I'm not sure if the two terms are mutually exclusive.
I think this is another example of Israel behaving like a rouge state. If it was a dictatorship run by a fat child, there would be international outcry and sanctions.
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Why does the legal definition matter to you? It's really irrelevant in the context. It's happened the way it happened, regardless of the law.
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That's the way to use technology.
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I see what you mean. Let's move on. Nothing to see here.
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