Shimano recalling a censored ton of DA and Ultegra cranksets
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Great.katani said:
Avoiding crashing or/and getting injured could have been a different outcome in some cases.First.Aspect said:
You make it sound like had they not ignored them, there may have been a different outcome. What were they supposed to do exactly? Take it to Shimano for a repair?katani said:Their US website says it is a voluntary recall with a replacement only to be provided following a confirmed signs of failure at an inspection.
So exactly the same as for Europe.
https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/information/customer-services/corrective-actions/11-speed-hollowtech-ii-crankset-recall-notice.html
Mine are SF, UJ, and PH, the last one being on the list. I bought that one new in 2019 and it's been on that bike since then and done the most miles too, some 20-25k miles including winter riding. Solid so far and I have been inspecting all three pretty much weekly after watching Hambini's video after his DA had failed.
All of the failures I have heard about were always preceded by creaking/clicking noise coming from the crank set for a while which the owners ignored.
The failures aren't dangerous, they are costly and inconvenient to replace.
First signs are misalignment of the outer fafe of crank and chain rings, btw.
I mean, that Bike Radar guy, who was ignoring creaking noises coming from his crank set area for weeks, and even when he could already feel the crank was breaking apart still kept dropping torque bombs on it... Also unsure what he was supposed to do?
If I saw what's in your photograph above, I would replace that crank asap. If in the middle of a ride, I am walking home. Even without seeing it or hearing creaks you would know there was something wrong as the shifting to the big ring would be affected / the chain wouldn't be meshing properly with the teeth on that ring. If it was still within the warranty period, I am returning the crank for a replacement / refund. If I got told it was my fault, I would demand to have it explained how as there is nothing really one can neglect to do on a crank set which would result in that sort of failure, and if I was getting simply ignored, I would try to raise it with the TS. But I haven't had a need to deal with them for more than a decade so don't know how they handle consumer complaints nowadays.
But when I did have an issue with one retailer in 2010, TS actually represented me and the seller couldn't simply ignore them as TS would have taken a legal action against them on my behalf if they had. Free of charge. No idea if they still offer this level of help nowadays.
If I see / feel / hear anything unusual on one of my bikes, it doesn't get ridden on until I find out the cause and it gets fixed.
Not my photo, just from the Internet.
I think there have been 6 injuries out of that 4600 failures. For the other 4594 there's nothing they could have done.
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Oh and fwiw the shifting normally isn't affected.0
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I think I will still arrange an inspection with my local SSC for all 3 crank sets, even though I know they won't be able to tell me anything I wouldn't be able to figure out myself. It's only a visual inspection and maybe they will apply some force to the axle against the crank arm to see if there is any flex there. They haven't got any more sophisticated diagnostics instruments that that. I don't think it is possible to somehow inspect the inside of the hollow to see if there is corrosion. But at least I will have evidence I have had them inspected in case either fails.
Anyways, time to do some cycling today as the weather is looking good.
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Don't Peak Torque and Hambini have some info on what to look/listen for? I've been looking at other brands like Rotor or Middleburn. As long as the bcd is right there are some nice cranksets out there.0
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Cheers.First.Aspect said:
Sure, with both of mine, the first thing I saw was a small lip between the outer chainring and the crank, where the casing of the crank is just starting to lift away furthest from the pedal. i.e. the early stages of what you can see here:webboo said:
Could you explain the misalignment a bit more please.First.Aspect said:
You make it sound like had they not ignored them, there may have been a different outcome. What were they supposed to do exactly? Take it to Shimano for a repair?katani said:Their US website says it is a voluntary recall with a replacement only to be provided following a confirmed signs of failure at an inspection.
So exactly the same as for Europe.
https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/information/customer-services/corrective-actions/11-speed-hollowtech-ii-crankset-recall-notice.html
Mine are SF, UJ, and PH, the last one being on the list. I bought that one new in 2019 and it's been on that bike since then and done the most miles too, some 20-25k miles including winter riding. Solid so far and I have been inspecting all three pretty much weekly after watching Hambini's video after his DA had failed.
All of the failures I have heard about were always preceded by creaking/clicking noise coming from the crank set for a while which the owners ignored.
The failures aren't dangerous, they are costly and inconvenient to replace.
First signs are misalignment of the outer fafe of crank and chain rings, btw.
You might get some creaking first, or potentially the pedal stroke will get eccentric.0 -
Interesting article on ramifications for Shimano, consumers and bike shops on bikeradar website.
Raises an important point, what about people who were originally denied a warranty claim? Apparently Shimano have said if they can produce the broken crank they can have a replacement.
This part of it could get rather messy for Shimano as that does not offer any additional reimbursement for the cost of buying a new crank when they were originally denied a claim. Also, I assume most will have binned them and cannot meet this requirement.
Could well be that a lot of people that were denied and are now being left out of the warranty process are going to rather angry and some lawyer somewhere is going to decide they need some compensation.0 -
From what I've heard the Shimano agents (your LBS) haven't been told what to do yet, and are being bombarded with phone calls. A bit of a shitshow.katani said:
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Mine started with some creaking which I couldn't clear, then it felt like there was excess float in the cleat / pedal.
Then when I went to sprint, then I felt the arm properly separate from the crank.
Definitely not a "walk home" job. I managed to pootle home, even if the separation is quite severe.0 -
Been trying to work out which LBS I have to take my bike to? And what happens if said LBS say yeah no good, do they just get shimano to send replacements? And does all the removal and replacement of crankset happen foc?davebradswmb said:
From what I've heard the Shimano agents (your LBS) haven't been told what to do yet, and are being bombarded with phone calls. A bit of a shitshow.katani said:0 -
My understanding is the lbs has to fill out a request for replacement to Shimano via the online service portal. No guarantee on how long a replacement make take though, stock levels will be interesting!
It is also not a like for like apparently. If you run a 53/39 for example, you will get a 52/36 as the former isn't an option.
Yes, the replacement and labour will be foc. Shimano will reimburse the bike shop. Some consternation though already as in the US, Shimano have set a $75 limit for bike shops to reclaim per replacement. Bike shops saying this won't actually cover the true labour and admin costs.1 -
I will check mine, but I need them right now and until the National Champs at the end of October, so I will deal with it after that… it might well be that I bought them from Germany pre Brexit, so it could be a hassle to return and I might just risk it… they seem fine and I keep them always clean…
EDIT, yes they came from Rose in 2020, before they stopped dealing with us… oh wellleft the forum March 20230 -
Bet you felt a bit baller being so strong your ripped your crank offshirley_basso said:Mine started with some creaking which I couldn't clear, then it felt like there was excess float in the cleat / pedal.
Then when I went to sprint, then I felt the arm properly separate from the crank.
Definitely not a "walk home" job. I managed to pootle home, even if the separation is quite severe.0 -
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Genuinely couldn't have come at a better time. I was on a corporate jolly and we were all pottering around at 15mph but a few keenos (myself very much included) decided to ramp it up at the end. Was about to give it some beans (very few beans as I hardly ride these days) when it separated.rick_chasey said:
Bet you felt a bit baller being so strong your ripped your crank offshirley_basso said:Mine started with some creaking which I couldn't clear, then it felt like there was excess float in the cleat / pedal.
Then when I went to sprint, then I felt the arm properly separate from the crank.
Definitely not a "walk home" job. I managed to pootle home, even if the separation is quite severe.
Felt like a baller
Didn't get humiliated for having a puny sprint0 -
I went in my local bike shop today, whilst they had heard about the recall. They had not had direct communication from Madison in regard to what’s going on. While I was there they found the Shimano general communication had been up dated to say to take your bike in for inspection after October 1st.
They were somewhat sceptical about how robust a visual check would be and then the possible implications that they could become responsible if a chainset failed after they’d checked it.1 -
You can go to any LBS and they can inspect and handle any claim through distributors as long as the have an account at the distributor for your countryugo.santalucia said:I will check mine, but I need them right now and until the National Champs at the end of October, so I will deal with it after that… it might well be that I bought them from Germany pre Brexit, so it could be a hassle to return and I might just risk it… they seem fine and I keep them always clean…
EDIT, yes they came from Rose in 2020, before they stopped dealing with us… oh well0 -
That's the advice I got from my solicitor after asking .webboo said:I went in my local bike shop today,
They were somewhat sceptical about how robust a visual check would be and then the possible implications that they could become responsible if a chainset failed after they’d checked it.
I've got all the relevant info and the main thing is the above .What they are offering yo deal with a claim is pretty pathetic too ,
I'm also a victim of the no warranty buy a new one .Shimano have made a mess of it all together ,it's a damage limitation excersize .
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Still haven't checked my two cranksets
Anyone had theirs checked by their lbs yet?
https://www.bikeradar.com/news/shimano-crankset-class-action-lawsuit/?fbclid=IwAR2_pVKOrV8nrqinX0qt6N_7O8KYUARY3yw3cbKBsc39-7VEkQEGIYUbSRkFelt F70 05 (Turbo)
Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
Scott CR1 SL 12
Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
Scott Foil 180 -
mine is RK, so outside of the recall… 😎left the forum March 20230
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Have got one 6800 chainset that is affected so might ask my LBS if they want to look at it. Watched the Mapdec YouTube video about it and it sounds like Shimano do pay the shops to do the work. The bike has actually got a bit of a creak at the moment although I doubt it's that causing it.daniel_b said:Still haven't checked my two cranksets
Anyone had theirs checked by their lbs yet?
https://www.bikeradar.com/news/shimano-crankset-class-action-lawsuit/?fbclid=IwAR2_pVKOrV8nrqinX0qt6N_7O8KYUARY3yw3cbKBsc39-7VEkQEGIYUbSRk
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Given in the UK that there is now a general safety product assesssment? that says they are unsafe. I wonder what trading standards view on the said chainsets would be as a government body has said they are not fit for purpose.
Also I wonder if you could go through the small claims court to ask for recompense as the issuing of the safety notice has devalued your bike.1 -
This whole thing has been an exemplar in how not to deal with Warranty claims.
I know the first instinct of most manufacturers is to deny any claims unless they can't get away with it, but Shimano will have known for years now that this was a manufacturing defect.
They should have come clean ages ago, the fact they didn't shows massive contempt for their customers.
Will be interesting to see how badly this affects their reputation long term.1 -
I doubt you would have much success with that given Shimano are offering to check and replace. However there may be a case for action if you suffered the failure and replaced the components at your expense especially given Shimano rejected claims and stood by their product until now.webboo said:
Also I wonder if you could go through the small claims court to ask for recompense as the issuing of the safety notice has devalued your bike.
Negligible effect I'd say. Most users of Shimano kit won't even know this is an issue either because they don't have DA or Ultegra or they simply miss the "recall". Then you need to consider what alternatives you have for bike groupsets. Will this drive people to bikes with Campy sets. Not in great numbers I'd guess.MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:
Will be interesting to see how badly this affects their reputation long term.0 -
They are offering to check and at that point they may replace, but not in all cases. However as they appear to fail at random I wonder how they could defend that in court.navrig2 said:
I doubt you would have much success with that given Shimano are offering to check and replace. However there may be a case for action if you suffered the failure and replaced the components at your expense especially given Shimano rejected claims and stood by their product until now.webboo said:
Also I wonder if you could go through the small claims court to ask for recompense as the issuing of the safety notice has devalued your bike.
Negligible effect I'd say. Most users of Shimano kit won't even know this is an issue either because they don't have DA or Ultegra or they simply miss the "recall". Then you need to consider what alternatives you have for bike groupsets. Will this drive people to bikes with Campy sets. Not in great numbers I'd guess.MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:
Will be interesting to see how badly this affects their reputation long term.0 -
I wasn't responding to that particular point however, at a guess, their defence would hinge around their investigations into the failure and their batch numbering process. They would, likely, (try to) demonstrate that the 4519 failure all come from the batches they are recalling for inspection and that other batches are not affected. They may even explain that later batches were fabricated in a slightly different way. Basically they will use statistics to demonstrate that what they are doing is commensurate with the size of the issue. They would also rely on the extremely low injury rate.webboo said:
They are offering to check and at that point they may replace, but not in all cases. However as they appear to fail at random I wonder how they could defend that in court.navrig2 said:
I doubt you would have much success with that given Shimano are offering to check and replace. However there may be a case for action if you suffered the failure and replaced the components at your expense especially given Shimano rejected claims and stood by their product until now.webboo said:
Also I wonder if you could go through the small claims court to ask for recompense as the issuing of the safety notice has devalued your bike.
Negligible effect I'd say. Most users of Shimano kit won't even know this is an issue either because they don't have DA or Ultegra or they simply miss the "recall". Then you need to consider what alternatives you have for bike groupsets. Will this drive people to bikes with Campy sets. Not in great numbers I'd guess.MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:
Will be interesting to see how badly this affects their reputation long term.
That's how most H&S issues are assessed and dealt with. Highway designs won't be altered until there has been a certain fatality incidence for example.
In some ways this is not much more than a storm in a teacup and won't attract mainstream media attention as would a vehicle recall for a brakes issue, for example.0 -
Yes I see your point but mine is one of the ones on the list I have checked mine as directed in the various videos several times but cannot see any thing that would indicate it’s about to delaminate. So when I take it in to get officially checked and they say it’s ok unless they have portable X-ray equipment what is that actually worth as a check.
All it’s going to take is one that’s been “Officially checked” to break and their going to be well stuffed.
As I said above if I try sell my bike with its 9100 Dura Ace group set now it’s going to be worth less than it was 6 weeks ago.0 -
They will continue to get failures even if they have examined everyone, it's almost guaranteed IMHO.webboo said:Yes I see your point but mine is one of the ones on the list I have checked mine as directed in the various videos several times but cannot see any thing that would indicate it’s about to delaminate. So when I take it in to get officially checked and they say it’s ok unless they have portable X-ray equipment what is that actually worth as a check.
All it’s going to take is one that’s been “Officially checked” to break and their going to be well stuffed.
As I said above if I try sell my bike with its 9100 Dura Ace group set now it’s going to be worth less than it was 6 weeks ago.
It's difficult to workout if there is any drop in value.
I wonder how Shimano will defend their current position of not compensating anyone who has already replaced a defective unit? Presumably if someone had a failure and their claim for a replacement was rejected then those records will help justify a case for compensation but for someone who simply paid for a new crankset and threw away the old one they will be stuffed.0 -
If you were looking to buy a second hand bike, are you saying you wouldn’t be put off if it had one of the effected chainsets or not use it to get the price down.0
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The seller sets the price and, mostly, over estimate the price on the basis of they expect to be negotiated. How do you factor in the impact of the crankset issue? Could just as easily be: the colour, it's needing a service, the tyres are worn, the cassette has got a lot of mileage or its Trek.webboo said:If you were looking to buy a second hand bike, are you saying you wouldn’t be put off if it had one of the effected chainsets or not use it to get the price down.
All are legitimate negotiating points.
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I don't get this "recall" affecting bike values either. The failures of the cranksets have been well documented for years. They are no more likely to fail now than they were before. The difference now is Shimano will replace it if it did. That should be a good thing surely?navrig2 said:
The seller sets the price and, mostly, over estimate the price on the basis of they expect to be negotiated. How do you factor in the impact of the crankset issue? Could just as easily be: the colour, it's needing a service, the tyres are worn, the cassette has got a lot of mileage or its Trek.webboo said:If you were looking to buy a second hand bike, are you saying you wouldn’t be put off if it had one of the effected chainsets or not use it to get the price down.
All are legitimate negotiating points.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soRnwb0vR9s
