TDF 2023: Stage 17:- Saint Gervais to Courchevel, 166km ***Spoilers***
blazing_saddles
Posts: 22,703
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Stage 17:- Saint Gervais to Courchevel, 166km
Wednesday, July 19
Start Time: 11-20amBST.
The Queen stage of this addition with a total elevation gain of 5,400 metres, with four categorised climbs, while the route adds up to 165.6 kilometres. The 17th stage of the Tour de France travels from Saint-Gervais Mont-Blanc to the altiport in the mountains above Courchevel and includes the infamous Col de la Loze.
The stage leads the way from Saint Gervais-Mont Blanc to Courchevel over the passes Col des Saisies, Cormet de Roselend, Côte de Longefoy as well as over the roof of the Tour – the 2304 metre high Col de la Loze. The pass, which has only been part of a Tour once so far in 2020, is not only very steep, but the last 5 kilometres of the Col de la Loze was first paved in 2019 and it’s extremely irregular.
Courchevel Altiport is an altiport serving Courchevel, a ski resort in the French Alps. The airfield has a very short runway of only 537 metres with a gradient of 18.6%
The Climbs.
Col des Saises has been used many times during previous tours. Most noticeably in 2000, when Marco Pantani attacked Lance Armstrong, early in the stage and in 2006, when Floyd Landis did the same, but with better............errr..........gear.
It is a climb of 13.4 kilometres at 5.1%.
Another firm favourite of the tour. The Cormet de Roselend is an ascent of 19.9 kilometres at 6%.
The Côte de Longefoy throws in 6.6 kilometres at a more testing 7.5% average.
Col de la Loze
The Tour descends to Moûtiers and moments later, in Brides-les-Bains, the Col de la Loze opens on a gentle note. The climb totals almost 30 kilometres, but the first half is nothing special. The gradients go up to 7% after Méribel, which is still nothing compared to the last 5 kilometres. The average gradient of the last 5 kilometres sits at over 10%.
Final Kms.
A 6 kilometres downhill, with a short uphill halfway, leads to the last 600 metres. Which is another insane ramp at 10.8%.
What to Expect.
Until yesterday, this was being touted as quite possibly, the stage that defined this tour. It may all come down to an explosive finish at the altiport, but I suspect, one way or another, it will be decided well before that. What ever the outcome, there should be one massive struggle to get into the breakaway.
Saint Gervais
Stage town for the 4th time
Population: 5,800
On the Road.
Beaufort
Overlooking the Doron River, the remains of Beaufort Castle, built on the ruins of a Roman villa around the 10th century, bear witness to Beaufort's long history. Owned by the Beauforts, the King of France and then the House of Savoy, it was occupied by various religious congregations from the 16th century until the present day.
Le Beaufort
The "Prince of Gruyères", Beaufort is a smooth, ivory to pale yellow cheese with an extremely fine, fruity flavour. This pressed, cooked cheese is made from the milk of Tarine or Abondance cows that graze the mountain pastures in summer. More than 10 kilos of milk are needed to make one kilo of Beaufort. Once removed from the mould, the cheeses are matured in a cellar for 5 to 12 months, regularly turned over and rubbed with a mixture of salt and cheese rind called "morge".
Courchevel
Stage town for the 4th time
Population: 2,360
It is a part of Les Trois Vallées, the largest linked ski areas in the world. Courchevel also refers to the towns of Courchevel 1300 (Le Praz), Courchevel 1550, Courchevel 1650 (Moriond), and Courchevel 1850, which are named for their altitudes in metres. On 1 January 2017, Saint-Bon-Tarentaise (1100) merged into the new commune Courchevel.
COURCHEVEL AND CYCLING
Richard Virenque (1997), Marco Pantani (2000) and Alejandro Valverde (2005): the calibre of the three winners in the upmarket resort of Tarentaise sums up the difficulty of the passes that surround it. However, the Tour de France had not returned here for seventeen years. Valverde's stage win in 2005 was the very first for the Spaniard, who had recently retired at the age of 41: he beat the American rider who dominated the event at the time in a sprint to the finish. In all, Valverde won four stages in the Tour de France and wore the Yellow Jersey for two days in 2008.
Gastronomy.
Savoy wines
Wines from Savoie have long been simply ski chalet wines but, today, the situation is changing. Thanks to the modernization of winemaking techniques and the enthusiasm of local vintners, the wines offer compelling flavor profiles and great aging potential.
There are 23 grape varieties planted in Savoie and of these 23, there are 5 white and 2 red grape varieties that stand out for their exceptional quality and affinity to the rugged land: Jacquère, Altesse, Roussanne, Chasselas, Gringet and the red, Mondeuse, also Persan.
There are just 3 appellations (AOP) in Savoie.
While the wines of Savoie are little known, the vermouth of the region is quite famous.
Wednesday, July 19
Start Time: 11-20amBST.
The Queen stage of this addition with a total elevation gain of 5,400 metres, with four categorised climbs, while the route adds up to 165.6 kilometres. The 17th stage of the Tour de France travels from Saint-Gervais Mont-Blanc to the altiport in the mountains above Courchevel and includes the infamous Col de la Loze.
The stage leads the way from Saint Gervais-Mont Blanc to Courchevel over the passes Col des Saisies, Cormet de Roselend, Côte de Longefoy as well as over the roof of the Tour – the 2304 metre high Col de la Loze. The pass, which has only been part of a Tour once so far in 2020, is not only very steep, but the last 5 kilometres of the Col de la Loze was first paved in 2019 and it’s extremely irregular.
Courchevel Altiport is an altiport serving Courchevel, a ski resort in the French Alps. The airfield has a very short runway of only 537 metres with a gradient of 18.6%
The Climbs.
Col des Saises has been used many times during previous tours. Most noticeably in 2000, when Marco Pantani attacked Lance Armstrong, early in the stage and in 2006, when Floyd Landis did the same, but with better............errr..........gear.
It is a climb of 13.4 kilometres at 5.1%.
Another firm favourite of the tour. The Cormet de Roselend is an ascent of 19.9 kilometres at 6%.
The Côte de Longefoy throws in 6.6 kilometres at a more testing 7.5% average.
Col de la Loze
The Tour descends to Moûtiers and moments later, in Brides-les-Bains, the Col de la Loze opens on a gentle note. The climb totals almost 30 kilometres, but the first half is nothing special. The gradients go up to 7% after Méribel, which is still nothing compared to the last 5 kilometres. The average gradient of the last 5 kilometres sits at over 10%.
Final Kms.
A 6 kilometres downhill, with a short uphill halfway, leads to the last 600 metres. Which is another insane ramp at 10.8%.
What to Expect.
Until yesterday, this was being touted as quite possibly, the stage that defined this tour. It may all come down to an explosive finish at the altiport, but I suspect, one way or another, it will be decided well before that. What ever the outcome, there should be one massive struggle to get into the breakaway.
Saint Gervais
Stage town for the 4th time
Population: 5,800
On the Road.
Beaufort
Overlooking the Doron River, the remains of Beaufort Castle, built on the ruins of a Roman villa around the 10th century, bear witness to Beaufort's long history. Owned by the Beauforts, the King of France and then the House of Savoy, it was occupied by various religious congregations from the 16th century until the present day.
Le Beaufort
The "Prince of Gruyères", Beaufort is a smooth, ivory to pale yellow cheese with an extremely fine, fruity flavour. This pressed, cooked cheese is made from the milk of Tarine or Abondance cows that graze the mountain pastures in summer. More than 10 kilos of milk are needed to make one kilo of Beaufort. Once removed from the mould, the cheeses are matured in a cellar for 5 to 12 months, regularly turned over and rubbed with a mixture of salt and cheese rind called "morge".
Courchevel
Stage town for the 4th time
Population: 2,360
It is a part of Les Trois Vallées, the largest linked ski areas in the world. Courchevel also refers to the towns of Courchevel 1300 (Le Praz), Courchevel 1550, Courchevel 1650 (Moriond), and Courchevel 1850, which are named for their altitudes in metres. On 1 January 2017, Saint-Bon-Tarentaise (1100) merged into the new commune Courchevel.
COURCHEVEL AND CYCLING
Richard Virenque (1997), Marco Pantani (2000) and Alejandro Valverde (2005): the calibre of the three winners in the upmarket resort of Tarentaise sums up the difficulty of the passes that surround it. However, the Tour de France had not returned here for seventeen years. Valverde's stage win in 2005 was the very first for the Spaniard, who had recently retired at the age of 41: he beat the American rider who dominated the event at the time in a sprint to the finish. In all, Valverde won four stages in the Tour de France and wore the Yellow Jersey for two days in 2008.
Gastronomy.
Savoy wines
Wines from Savoie have long been simply ski chalet wines but, today, the situation is changing. Thanks to the modernization of winemaking techniques and the enthusiasm of local vintners, the wines offer compelling flavor profiles and great aging potential.
There are 23 grape varieties planted in Savoie and of these 23, there are 5 white and 2 red grape varieties that stand out for their exceptional quality and affinity to the rugged land: Jacquère, Altesse, Roussanne, Chasselas, Gringet and the red, Mondeuse, also Persan.
There are just 3 appellations (AOP) in Savoie.
While the wines of Savoie are little known, the vermouth of the region is quite famous.
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
4
Comments
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Pog to drop jonas for 2 mins ...no problem heard it here first ."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm4
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Solo to the end yeah?ddraver said:Pog to attack in Beaufort...
"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm1 -
Easy"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0
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The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
The Loze is a bit too steep to deliver anything IMHO.
I'll eat my words tomorrow.BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
Instagramme1 -
Can't stop singing "Col de la Loze, baby" to the sound of Beck...0
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I mean, really this is genepi country traditionally...blazing_saddles said:
There are just 3 appellations (AOP) in Savoie.
While the wines of Savoie are little known, the vermouth of the region is quite famous.
In the modern day it's actually developing into a thriving "expats setting up cool-but-not-actually-very-good hipster breweries" country
We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
This route will quite literally go past two of my previous front doors...
The Cote de Longfry is well known by Tarentaise Transfer drivers as the lesser known alternative route to try and avoid the horrendous traffic on Saturday morning and reversed on Saturday evening to attempt to beat the Tacho to the resort and then back down to Bourg St Maurice. I would challenge any fancy-pants Pidcock to a race in an empty minibus...
The climb up to Meribel is a horrible twisty turney road that requires immense skill (ahem) on the part of the driver not to turn even the most iron-stomached guests into quivering vomit bags. The start of the Col is properly steep and requires a healthy set of snow tyres to get up in the snow.
Gawd Bless the 2 irish families who gave me a 100 Eur tip on Christmas Eve last time I was there (and apologies for (probably) giving you Covid in return...)We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
DDRaver - the route goes to Brides les Bain, and courchevel 1300, across to La Tania and on to Meribel. It doesn't go to Meribel direct from Moutiers.ddraver said:This route will quite literally go past two of my previous front doors...
The Cote de Longfry is well known by Tarentaise Transfer drivers as the lesser known alternative route to try and avoid the horrendous traffic on Saturday morning and reversed on Saturday evening to attempt to beat the Tacho to the resort and then back down to Bourg St Maurice. I would challenge any fancy-pants Pidcock to a race in an empty minibus...
The climb up to Meribel is a horrible twisty turney road that requires immense skill (ahem) on the part of the driver not to turn even the most iron-stomached guests into quivering vomit bags. The start of the Col is properly steep and requires a healthy set of snow tyres to get up in the snow.
Gawd Bless the 2 irish families who gave me a 100 Eur tip on Christmas Eve last time I was there (and apologies for (probably) giving you Covid in return...)
Assuming you mean the Col de la Loze at the end, you can't get onto the road in a vehicle in winter from Ronde Pointe, as it is a piste that comes down behind the hotels. In fact, you can't get onto it in summer in a vehicle either as they are banned!
It is properly steep though with a number of 20% sections. Come round the first hairpin in the forest and a wall hits you.0 -
I rode it last week, having climbed from Bride-les-Bains through Merihell. My loins were girded for extreme steepness, and in the first k or so, I thought I'd been sold a "pup". Then I turned a corner, looked up and saw a vertical wall of tarmac. Thankfully sufficiently short to allow me to wheeze up in my 34x34 bottom gear. And that was how it continued - relatively flat sections and near-vertical pitches alternating to the top. Through my blurred vision, I also saw a few signs warning of a MTB track crossing the bike bath (we were out early, so the lifts to the top of the MTB track weren't open) so let's hope there's no-one descending when the Tour goes up!Dorset_Boy said:It is properly steep though with a number of 20% sections. Come round the first hairpin in the forest and a wall hits you.
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Rain....
.....and floods."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
I did it last year. Utterly brutal climb. Final pitch to the summit is another 20% section.wallace_and_gromit said:
I rode it last week, having climbed from Bride-les-Bains through Merihell. My loins were girded for extreme steepness, and in the first k or so, I thought I'd been sold a "pup". Then I turned a corner, looked up and saw a vertical wall of tarmac. Thankfully sufficiently short to allow me to wheeze up in my 34x34 bottom gear. And that was how it continued - relatively flat sections and near-vertical pitches alternating to the top. Through my blurred vision, I also saw a few signs warning of a MTB track crossing the bike bath (we were out early, so the lifts to the top of the MTB track weren't open) so let's hope there's no-one descending when the Tour goes up!Dorset_Boy said:It is properly steep though with a number of 20% sections. Come round the first hairpin in the forest and a wall hits you.
The climb up through Meribel to Ronde Pointe is lovely though!
However, when skiing down it, it feels pretty flat....!
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For my sins, I showboated (as much as my 55 yo legs allow) up the final 20% pitch, crested the rise and saw there’s a bit more climbing to do which nearly finished me off. Hubris and Nemesis in close succession!Dorset_Boy said:
I did it last year. Utterly brutal climb. Final pitch to the summit is another 20% section.wallace_and_gromit said:
I rode it last week, having climbed from Bride-les-Bains through Merihell. My loins were girded for extreme steepness, and in the first k or so, I thought I'd been sold a "pup". Then I turned a corner, looked up and saw a vertical wall of tarmac. Thankfully sufficiently short to allow me to wheeze up in my 34x34 bottom gear. And that was how it continued - relatively flat sections and near-vertical pitches alternating to the top. Through my blurred vision, I also saw a few signs warning of a MTB track crossing the bike bath (we were out early, so the lifts to the top of the MTB track weren't open) so let's hope there's no-one descending when the Tour goes up!Dorset_Boy said:It is properly steep though with a number of 20% sections. Come round the first hairpin in the forest and a wall hits you.
The climb up through Meribel to Ronde Pointe is lovely though!
However, when skiing down it, it feels pretty flat....!
I did note that the descent to Courchevel is the green “Loze” run in winter, which barely registered as being steep on skis, despite needing generous use of disk brakes on two wheels.
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Youngster! My (then) 56 yo legs did the following times:wallace_and_gromit said:
For my sins, I showboated (as much as my 55 yo legs allow) up the final 20% pitch, crested the rise and saw there’s a bit more climbing to do which nearly finished me off. Hubris and Nemesis in close succession!Dorset_Boy said:
I did it last year. Utterly brutal climb. Final pitch to the summit is another 20% section.wallace_and_gromit said:
I rode it last week, having climbed from Bride-les-Bains through Merihell. My loins were girded for extreme steepness, and in the first k or so, I thought I'd been sold a "pup". Then I turned a corner, looked up and saw a vertical wall of tarmac. Thankfully sufficiently short to allow me to wheeze up in my 34x34 bottom gear. And that was how it continued - relatively flat sections and near-vertical pitches alternating to the top. Through my blurred vision, I also saw a few signs warning of a MTB track crossing the bike bath (we were out early, so the lifts to the top of the MTB track weren't open) so let's hope there's no-one descending when the Tour goes up!Dorset_Boy said:It is properly steep though with a number of 20% sections. Come round the first hairpin in the forest and a wall hits you.
The climb up through Meribel to Ronde Pointe is lovely though!
However, when skiing down it, it feels pretty flat....!
I did note that the descent to Courchevel is the green “Loze” run in winter, which barely registered as being steep on skis, despite needing generous use of disk brakes on two wheels.
55:05 - https://www.strava.com/segments/34786529
38:22 - https://www.strava.com/segments/34087202 (Pog is KoM on this one (23:18)
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Come on Pog.
Everything crossed for him to properly take it to Vingers. Make em sweat for it lad!0 -
The section from Beaufort to Moutiers is the section missed from stage 20 of the 2019 Tour.0
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Early start for this one then. I was hoping to get back from my sports massage in time to see the start. Unfortunately I can't see Pog pulling back any meaningful time and feel he's more likely to lose another chunk but hopefully he'll take the view he has nothing to lose and will go all in trying. It will be interesting to see how UAE play it, they need to somehow isolate Jonas early or at least get it so that he only has Kuss left. They need Wout to be dropped as early as possible.0
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Ja you sort of expect Vingers to go for the coup de grâce but bad weather in mountains has scuppered riders before.0
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Descent from Notre Dame du Pre is seriously twisty.nezza said:The section from Beaufort to Moutiers is the section missed from stage 20 of the 2019 Tour.
Cormet de Roseland is too far out to attack, and climb to NDdP not hard enough.
It'll come down to the Loze.... (not forgetting the Altiport ramp to the finish.)0 -
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Cough cough. We'll gloss over my times. If we ever rode together, if you had a kettle and stove to hand, you could make a brew between you getting to the top and me joining you!Dorset_Boy said:
Youngster! My (then) 56 yo legs did the following times:wallace_and_gromit said:
For my sins, I showboated (as much as my 55 yo legs allow) up the final 20% pitch, crested the rise and saw there’s a bit more climbing to do which nearly finished me off. Hubris and Nemesis in close succession!Dorset_Boy said:
I did it last year. Utterly brutal climb. Final pitch to the summit is another 20% section.wallace_and_gromit said:
I rode it last week, having climbed from Bride-les-Bains through Merihell. My loins were girded for extreme steepness, and in the first k or so, I thought I'd been sold a "pup". Then I turned a corner, looked up and saw a vertical wall of tarmac. Thankfully sufficiently short to allow me to wheeze up in my 34x34 bottom gear. And that was how it continued - relatively flat sections and near-vertical pitches alternating to the top. Through my blurred vision, I also saw a few signs warning of a MTB track crossing the bike bath (we were out early, so the lifts to the top of the MTB track weren't open) so let's hope there's no-one descending when the Tour goes up!Dorset_Boy said:It is properly steep though with a number of 20% sections. Come round the first hairpin in the forest and a wall hits you.
The climb up through Meribel to Ronde Pointe is lovely though!
However, when skiing down it, it feels pretty flat....!
I did note that the descent to Courchevel is the green “Loze” run in winter, which barely registered as being steep on skis, despite needing generous use of disk brakes on two wheels.
55:05 - https://www.strava.com/segments/34786529
38:22 - https://www.strava.com/segments/34087202 (Pog is KoM on this one (23:18)0 -
Sounds like he really should be resting up back home.rick_chasey said:MvdP still on antibiotics apparently. Day 4.
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2020 Voodoo Marasa
2017 Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc 2016
2016 Voodoo Wazoo0 -
Especially so if the weather is as bad as reported.N0bodyOfTheGoat said:
Sounds like he really should be resting up back home.rick_chasey said:MvdP still on antibiotics apparently. Day 4.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let Pog go from the gun0
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The Sun is now out as the stage gets underway......"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0
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Ciccone goes full spots0
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Pog chute!
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Hatch goes full 'Jimmy Two Times'0
https://youtu.be/Zg0bGb9LEWc
