Antonio Tiberi Cat Killer
Comments
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My view is that if you want laws, then you have to create them, you can't let the public decide what is right or wrong, based on their personal views.First.Aspect said:What if someone's o ertly racist or something like that, Ugo?
Nothing to do with their abilities as an athlete. Live and let live?
If as a society we think that athletes should have a code of conduct, otherwise they should not be allowed to be in that position, then there should be clear legislation, highlighting what is expected of them.
I don't think many are aware of how racist you can be before this becomes an offence... athletes on average are not the sharpest tools in the shed, so to speak, neither they have degrees in law, normally.
Personally, I feel for these guys, who are thrown to the lions, without ever receiving any education on what you can and cannot do when you are on the spotlight.
We have all done stupid things we regret, most of us got away with it, why can't they?left the forum March 20230 -
What education did you need to know its not okay to shoot your neighbour's cat?1
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There are stupid things and then there's deliberately killing a defenceless animal. That's beyond stupid. It's cruel and should be punished. Doesn't matter if it's Joe Bloggs or a high profile athlete, a crime is a crime.ugo.santalucia said:
My view is that if you want laws, then you have to create them, you can't let the public decide what is right or wrong, based on their personal views.First.Aspect said:What if someone's o ertly racist or something like that, Ugo?
Nothing to do with their abilities as an athlete. Live and let live?
If as a society we think that athletes should have a code of conduct, otherwise they should not be allowed to be in that position, then there should be clear legislation, highlighting what is expected of them.
I don't think many are aware of how racist you can be before this becomes an offence... athletes on average are not the sharpest tools in the shed, so to speak, neither they have degrees in law, normally.
Personally, I feel for these guys, who are thrown to the lions, without ever receiving any education on what you can and cannot do when you are on the spotlight.
We have all done stupid things we regret, most of us got away with it, why can't they?
But back to your argument defending sport stars, whether they are treated differently is debatable but it can't be forgotten that they are always in the limelight and are paid accordingly. They should set an example. Same with other high profile careers/ jobs.
Do you expect MPs to behave and follow the law?? No difference there. If one had shot a cat there would be outrage and they would face the consequences.
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Not a million miles from where he lives, cats are (or at least were until very recently) on the menu at Christmas... you can read all about Vicenza.First.Aspect said:What education did you need to know its not okay to shoot your neighbour's cat?
To complicate matters even further, I think the episode happened in San Marino, which is not even Italy.
You can't apply your laws, upbringing and education to a different country...left the forum March 20230 -
It would appear to be against the law in both Italy and San Marino to shoot your neighbour's pet animal.ugo.santalucia said:
Not a million miles from where he lives, cats are (or at least were until very recently) on the menu at Christmas... you can read all about Vicenza.First.Aspect said:What education did you need to know its not okay to shoot your neighbour's cat?
To complicate matters even further, I think the episode happened in San Marino, which is not even Italy.
You can't apply your laws, upbringing and education to a different country...
So, moving on from being an animal cruelty apologist....2 -
Are they all paid accordingly? What do you think Tiberi’s salary is? I would be surprised if he got much more than what we consider minimum wage…redvision said:
There are stupid things and then there's deliberately killing a defenceless animal. That's beyond stupid. It's cruel and should be punished. Doesn't matter if it's Joe Bloggs or a high profile athlete, a crime is a crime.ugo.santalucia said:
My view is that if you want laws, then you have to create them, you can't let the public decide what is right or wrong, based on their personal views.First.Aspect said:What if someone's o ertly racist or something like that, Ugo?
Nothing to do with their abilities as an athlete. Live and let live?
If as a society we think that athletes should have a code of conduct, otherwise they should not be allowed to be in that position, then there should be clear legislation, highlighting what is expected of them.
I don't think many are aware of how racist you can be before this becomes an offence... athletes on average are not the sharpest tools in the shed, so to speak, neither they have degrees in law, normally.
Personally, I feel for these guys, who are thrown to the lions, without ever receiving any education on what you can and cannot do when you are on the spotlight.
We have all done stupid things we regret, most of us got away with it, why can't they?
But back to your argument defending sport stars, whether they are treated differently is debatable but it can't be forgotten that they are always in the limelight and are paid accordingly. They should set an example. Same with other high profile careers/ jobs.
Do you expect MPs to behave and follow the law?? No difference there. If one had shot a cat there would be outrage and they would face the consequences.
Neo Pro salary is around 32k euros… so 28k pounds, which is about 15 quid an hour
left the forum March 20230 -
He's chosen a career in the public limelight. He didn't have to, same as all sportspeople or those in other high profile careers. That means inevitably there will be extra scrutiny on their actions, but they knew when they chose that career.ugo.santalucia said:
Are they all paid accordingly? What do you think Tiberi’s salary is? I would be surprised if he got much more than what we consider minimum wage…redvision said:
There are stupid things and then there's deliberately killing a defenceless animal. That's beyond stupid. It's cruel and should be punished. Doesn't matter if it's Joe Bloggs or a high profile athlete, a crime is a crime.ugo.santalucia said:
My view is that if you want laws, then you have to create them, you can't let the public decide what is right or wrong, based on their personal views.First.Aspect said:What if someone's o ertly racist or something like that, Ugo?
Nothing to do with their abilities as an athlete. Live and let live?
If as a society we think that athletes should have a code of conduct, otherwise they should not be allowed to be in that position, then there should be clear legislation, highlighting what is expected of them.
I don't think many are aware of how racist you can be before this becomes an offence... athletes on average are not the sharpest tools in the shed, so to speak, neither they have degrees in law, normally.
Personally, I feel for these guys, who are thrown to the lions, without ever receiving any education on what you can and cannot do when you are on the spotlight.
We have all done stupid things we regret, most of us got away with it, why can't they?
But back to your argument defending sport stars, whether they are treated differently is debatable but it can't be forgotten that they are always in the limelight and are paid accordingly. They should set an example. Same with other high profile careers/ jobs.
Do you expect MPs to behave and follow the law?? No difference there. If one had shot a cat there would be outrage and they would face the consequences.
Neo Pro salary is around 32k euros… so 28k pounds, which is about 15 quid an hour
To be honest, it's irrelevant though, committing a crime should be punished no matter what occupation.0 -
And by complete chance, I've just come across https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-64809523 (no apparent "driving being critical to their job" scenario but even so) ... Suspended sentence, what the flipperty flip??!!!?!?!?!N0bodyOfTheGoat said:Car related offences, where punishments are ridiculously light due to "driving being critical to their job," is a more than trivial thing that annoys me at times.
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2020 Voodoo Marasa
2017 Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc 2016
2016 Voodoo Wazoo1 -
The Italian defending the Italian. What a surprise.
Don’t be f@cking melt Ugo. The guy killed a cat on purpose. He’s a f@cking pre psycho.0 -
but the point is… was he ever educated to be a sportsman in the public eye? His coach was probably interested in his power numbers and his sprinting… but I doubt he ever had access to someone explaining what he should do and how he should behave as a professional cyclist. We tend to take for granted that everybody is born wise.redvision said:
He's chosen a career in the public limelight. He didn't have to, same as all sportspeople or those in other high profile careers. That means inevitably there will be extra scrutiny on their actions, but they knew when they chose that career.ugo.santalucia said:
Are they all paid accordingly? What do you think Tiberi’s salary is? I would be surprised if he got much more than what we consider minimum wage…redvision said:
There are stupid things and then there's deliberately killing a defenceless animal. That's beyond stupid. It's cruel and should be punished. Doesn't matter if it's Joe Bloggs or a high profile athlete, a crime is a crime.ugo.santalucia said:
My view is that if you want laws, then you have to create them, you can't let the public decide what is right or wrong, based on their personal views.First.Aspect said:What if someone's o ertly racist or something like that, Ugo?
Nothing to do with their abilities as an athlete. Live and let live?
If as a society we think that athletes should have a code of conduct, otherwise they should not be allowed to be in that position, then there should be clear legislation, highlighting what is expected of them.
I don't think many are aware of how racist you can be before this becomes an offence... athletes on average are not the sharpest tools in the shed, so to speak, neither they have degrees in law, normally.
Personally, I feel for these guys, who are thrown to the lions, without ever receiving any education on what you can and cannot do when you are on the spotlight.
We have all done stupid things we regret, most of us got away with it, why can't they?
But back to your argument defending sport stars, whether they are treated differently is debatable but it can't be forgotten that they are always in the limelight and are paid accordingly. They should set an example. Same with other high profile careers/ jobs.
Do you expect MPs to behave and follow the law?? No difference there. If one had shot a cat there would be outrage and they would face the consequences.
Neo Pro salary is around 32k euros… so 28k pounds, which is about 15 quid an hour
To be honest, it's irrelevant though, committing a crime should be punished no matter what occupation.
You only see these things at the highest level, when they are educated to say the right things… and of course money makes doing the right things easier… you don’t go around shooting cats on your lawn if you have a 20 acre estate and no neighbours, do you?
And for the record, he was punished according to the law… he was fined 4k Euros, which is probably 2 months wage for him and a lot of money…
left the forum March 20230 -
(A) Tough. He's learning the hard way.ugo.santalucia said:
but the point is… was he ever educated to be a sportsman in the public eye? His coach was probably interested in his power numbers and his sprinting… but I doubt he ever had access to someone explaining what he should do and how he should behave as a professional cyclist. We tend to take for granted that everybody is born wise.redvision said:
He's chosen a career in the public limelight. He didn't have to, same as all sportspeople or those in other high profile careers. That means inevitably there will be extra scrutiny on their actions, but they knew when they chose that career.ugo.santalucia said:
Are they all paid accordingly? What do you think Tiberi’s salary is? I would be surprised if he got much more than what we consider minimum wage…redvision said:
There are stupid things and then there's deliberately killing a defenceless animal. That's beyond stupid. It's cruel and should be punished. Doesn't matter if it's Joe Bloggs or a high profile athlete, a crime is a crime.ugo.santalucia said:
My view is that if you want laws, then you have to create them, you can't let the public decide what is right or wrong, based on their personal views.First.Aspect said:What if someone's o ertly racist or something like that, Ugo?
Nothing to do with their abilities as an athlete. Live and let live?
If as a society we think that athletes should have a code of conduct, otherwise they should not be allowed to be in that position, then there should be clear legislation, highlighting what is expected of them.
I don't think many are aware of how racist you can be before this becomes an offence... athletes on average are not the sharpest tools in the shed, so to speak, neither they have degrees in law, normally.
Personally, I feel for these guys, who are thrown to the lions, without ever receiving any education on what you can and cannot do when you are on the spotlight.
We have all done stupid things we regret, most of us got away with it, why can't they?
But back to your argument defending sport stars, whether they are treated differently is debatable but it can't be forgotten that they are always in the limelight and are paid accordingly. They should set an example. Same with other high profile careers/ jobs.
Do you expect MPs to behave and follow the law?? No difference there. If one had shot a cat there would be outrage and they would face the consequences.
Neo Pro salary is around 32k euros… so 28k pounds, which is about 15 quid an hour
To be honest, it's irrelevant though, committing a crime should be punished no matter what occupation.
You only see these things at the highest level, when they are educated to say the right things… and of course money makes doing the right things easier… you don’t go around shooting cats on your lawn if you have a 20 acre estate and no neighbours, do you?
And for the record, he was punished according to the law… he was fined 4k Euros, which is probably 2 months wage for him and a lot of money…
(B) Are you *actually* arguing that being poor and thus in close proximity to other poor people and their cats is a mitigating factor?
This is just demented.1 -
I am saying that if you are rich and live far from your neighbours, you are less likely to get into arguments with them. Obviously, this was not about the cat, but about a problem between neighbours… the cat paid the ultimate price.First.Aspect said:
(A) Tough. He's learning the hard way.ugo.santalucia said:
but the point is… was he ever educated to be a sportsman in the public eye? His coach was probably interested in his power numbers and his sprinting… but I doubt he ever had access to someone explaining what he should do and how he should behave as a professional cyclist. We tend to take for granted that everybody is born wise.redvision said:
He's chosen a career in the public limelight. He didn't have to, same as all sportspeople or those in other high profile careers. That means inevitably there will be extra scrutiny on their actions, but they knew when they chose that career.ugo.santalucia said:
Are they all paid accordingly? What do you think Tiberi’s salary is? I would be surprised if he got much more than what we consider minimum wage…redvision said:
There are stupid things and then there's deliberately killing a defenceless animal. That's beyond stupid. It's cruel and should be punished. Doesn't matter if it's Joe Bloggs or a high profile athlete, a crime is a crime.ugo.santalucia said:
My view is that if you want laws, then you have to create them, you can't let the public decide what is right or wrong, based on their personal views.First.Aspect said:What if someone's o ertly racist or something like that, Ugo?
Nothing to do with their abilities as an athlete. Live and let live?
If as a society we think that athletes should have a code of conduct, otherwise they should not be allowed to be in that position, then there should be clear legislation, highlighting what is expected of them.
I don't think many are aware of how racist you can be before this becomes an offence... athletes on average are not the sharpest tools in the shed, so to speak, neither they have degrees in law, normally.
Personally, I feel for these guys, who are thrown to the lions, without ever receiving any education on what you can and cannot do when you are on the spotlight.
We have all done stupid things we regret, most of us got away with it, why can't they?
But back to your argument defending sport stars, whether they are treated differently is debatable but it can't be forgotten that they are always in the limelight and are paid accordingly. They should set an example. Same with other high profile careers/ jobs.
Do you expect MPs to behave and follow the law?? No difference there. If one had shot a cat there would be outrage and they would face the consequences.
Neo Pro salary is around 32k euros… so 28k pounds, which is about 15 quid an hour
To be honest, it's irrelevant though, committing a crime should be punished no matter what occupation.
You only see these things at the highest level, when they are educated to say the right things… and of course money makes doing the right things easier… you don’t go around shooting cats on your lawn if you have a 20 acre estate and no neighbours, do you?
And for the record, he was punished according to the law… he was fined 4k Euros, which is probably 2 months wage for him and a lot of money…
(B) Are you *actually* arguing that being poor and thus in close proximity to other poor people and their cats is a mitigating factor?
This is just demented.
left the forum March 20230 -
Ugo it doesn't matter what dispute may or may not have occurred, or what upbringing he had. He shot and killed a cat. There is no excuse for that.2
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This is what I meant by "apologist".ugo.santalucia said:
I am saying that if you are rich and live far from your neighbours, you are less likely to get into arguments with them. Obviously, this was not about the cat, but about a problem between neighbours… the cat paid the ultimate price.First.Aspect said:
(A) Tough. He's learning the hard way.ugo.santalucia said:
but the point is… was he ever educated to be a sportsman in the public eye? His coach was probably interested in his power numbers and his sprinting… but I doubt he ever had access to someone explaining what he should do and how he should behave as a professional cyclist. We tend to take for granted that everybody is born wise.redvision said:
He's chosen a career in the public limelight. He didn't have to, same as all sportspeople or those in other high profile careers. That means inevitably there will be extra scrutiny on their actions, but they knew when they chose that career.ugo.santalucia said:
Are they all paid accordingly? What do you think Tiberi’s salary is? I would be surprised if he got much more than what we consider minimum wage…redvision said:
There are stupid things and then there's deliberately killing a defenceless animal. That's beyond stupid. It's cruel and should be punished. Doesn't matter if it's Joe Bloggs or a high profile athlete, a crime is a crime.ugo.santalucia said:
My view is that if you want laws, then you have to create them, you can't let the public decide what is right or wrong, based on their personal views.First.Aspect said:What if someone's o ertly racist or something like that, Ugo?
Nothing to do with their abilities as an athlete. Live and let live?
If as a society we think that athletes should have a code of conduct, otherwise they should not be allowed to be in that position, then there should be clear legislation, highlighting what is expected of them.
I don't think many are aware of how racist you can be before this becomes an offence... athletes on average are not the sharpest tools in the shed, so to speak, neither they have degrees in law, normally.
Personally, I feel for these guys, who are thrown to the lions, without ever receiving any education on what you can and cannot do when you are on the spotlight.
We have all done stupid things we regret, most of us got away with it, why can't they?
But back to your argument defending sport stars, whether they are treated differently is debatable but it can't be forgotten that they are always in the limelight and are paid accordingly. They should set an example. Same with other high profile careers/ jobs.
Do you expect MPs to behave and follow the law?? No difference there. If one had shot a cat there would be outrage and they would face the consequences.
Neo Pro salary is around 32k euros… so 28k pounds, which is about 15 quid an hour
To be honest, it's irrelevant though, committing a crime should be punished no matter what occupation.
You only see these things at the highest level, when they are educated to say the right things… and of course money makes doing the right things easier… you don’t go around shooting cats on your lawn if you have a 20 acre estate and no neighbours, do you?
And for the record, he was punished according to the law… he was fined 4k Euros, which is probably 2 months wage for him and a lot of money…
(B) Are you *actually* arguing that being poor and thus in close proximity to other poor people and their cats is a mitigating factor?
This is just demented.
I am sure the province of santalucia is lovely in the spring, but I'm not going there. The people are strange.0 -
So what are you suggesting, life in prison? Death sentence?redvision said:Ugo it doesn't matter what dispute may or may not have occurred, or what upbringing he had. He shot and killed a cat. There is no excuse for that.
As far as the law is concerned, the case is settled. If you think that he is no longer fit to be a professional cyclist, then there needs to be a written code of conduct, because as far as I am aware, there isn’t one. He has been suspended by the team for 20 days, which on top of the financial punishment, makes for a rather harsh, probably exemplar punishment, compared to others, seem to get away woth a lot less.
Leave the guy alone, I am sure you will not hear from him anymore, other than for his achievements on the bike
left the forum March 20230 -
What I'm saying is the punishment should reflect the crime and as far as I'm concerned, he's only had a slap on the wrist.
I hope the UCI get involved and his ban gets extended. 20 days suspension is no punishment.
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I think what you want is a change in the law…redvision said:What I'm saying is the punishment should reflect the crime and as far as I'm concerned, he's only had a slap on the wrist.
I hope the UCI get involved and his ban gets extended. 20 days suspension is no punishment.
You have to bear in mind that not all cultures are the same. I suspect killing a dog in Korea is a lesser crime than it is here and probably there are countries around the world where it might not even be illegal. If you killed a wolf in Italy, you would end up in a world of trouble, but do that in Siberia, and you can probably make a coat with the fur.
Italy has a stronger Christian heritage than many northern countries and if you read the Gospel, well, Jesus wasn’t exactly keen on pets or animals… the focus was and still is on people and the law reflects that.
My grandmother drowned countless unwanted kittens… at the time people had no money to get them sterilised and there was not a great demand for kittens, what should we do about that?
left the forum March 20230 -
So you are actually saying it is ok to kill someone's pet?
And back to the topic of his profession, he has a job which is in the limelight and sets an example. His behaviour, his action, is appalling and he has no defence.
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Quinn Simmons is basically an out and out Trump supporter - gets a lot of social meedja beef.First.Aspect said:What if someone's o ertly racist or something like that, Ugo?
Nothing to do with their abilities as an athlete. Live and let live?0 -
I am not saying it is OK… I am not saying anything… I let the law do the talking, since the case is covered. The law says it is not OK, and you have to pay 4k if you do so…redvision said:So you are actually saying it is ok to kill someone's pet?
And back to the topic of his profession, he has a job which is in the limelight and sets an example. His behaviour, his action, is appalling and he has no defence.
Do you want me to campaign for a change in the law on your behalf… 😉?
left the forum March 20230 -
You are saying it does not warrant a suspension from his team or by the UCI. Forget the criminal punishment (or lack of it). I'm saying his actions are terrible, he brought the sport, his team and sponsors into disrepute, and he should receive a suitable punishment - not a pathetic 20 days, which will make no difference to him.0
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I think a fine is a more pragmatic penalty over the 5 years sentence you might get over here.
Firstly, I am not overly keen to pay for a cat murderer’s jail time, secondly, statistics suggest at the end he will likely reoffend and the next time it might not be a cat…left the forum March 20230 -
I don't know what you are arguing about now. You started off saying he shouldn't be fired from his team, because its nothing to do with cycling.ugo.santalucia said:I think a fine is a more pragmatic penalty over the 5 years sentence you might get over here.
Firstly, I am not overly keen to pay for a cat murderer’s jail time, secondly, statistics suggest at the end he will likely reoffend and the next time it might not be a cat…
You are in a group of 1 on that point.
Yes, he's likely done it before and done it again. He probably pulls wings of butterflies and puts salt on frogs.
Based on what we actually know, he's due a harsh life lesson and not sympathy if he gets one.0 -
"statistics suggest at the end he will likely reoffend and the next time it might not be a cat"
That is the only statement from you that I agree with0 -
I think he is already having a harder time than most… I am sure if Gimondi killed a cat in the 60s, nobody cared.First.Aspect said:
I don't know what you are arguing about now. You started off saying he shouldn't be fired from his team, because its nothing to do with cycling.ugo.santalucia said:I think a fine is a more pragmatic penalty over the 5 years sentence you might get over here.
Firstly, I am not overly keen to pay for a cat murderer’s jail time, secondly, statistics suggest at the end he will likely reoffend and the next time it might not be a cat…
You are in a group of 1 on that point.
Yes, he's likely done it before and done it again. He probably pulls wings of butterflies and puts salt on frogs.
Based on what we actually know, he's due a harsh life lesson and not sympathy if he gets one.
I think he needs to be left alone. He has been handed a penalty which is quite significant for someone in his situation… it would be like Pogacar being fined 1 million pounds… you would think it is a substantial amount of money. He will also likely face damage going forward… he will be booed at races, he moght miss out on contracts and endorsements… the legacy of this will be substantial enough, without asking for him to be banned…
left the forum March 20230 -
How does the cat owner feel about all of this?0
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He's having kittens about the whole affair.First.Aspect said:How does the cat owner feel about all of this?
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4k better off?First.Aspect said:How does the cat owner feel about all of this?
I do not know, but a bit of restorative justive would probably go a long way. Learn to forgive is something that would benefit society a great deal.
Unrelated, but from 1999 a public prosecutor in Italy decided that Pantani had to become the example, to eradicate doping practice from sport.
The result is that he developed severe mental health issues and was found dead five years later… in 2004 the sport was not cleaner than it was in 1999… maybe things should have been handled differently and maybe in this case the guy should be
eft alone, before he decides to turn the gun on himself…
left the forum March 20230 -
I would suggest that someone so Psychopathic that they think it’s ok to kill a neighbours pet would only be killing themselves because society will not let them behave as they would like. Or it would be a case” if I’m dead you can’t get back at me”ugo.santalucia said:
4k better off?First.Aspect said:How does the cat owner feel about all of this?
I do not know, but a bit of restorative justive would probably go a long way. Learn to forgive is something that would benefit society a great deal.
Unrelated, but from 1999 a public prosecutor in Italy decided that Pantani had to become the example, to eradicate doping practice from sport.
The result is that he developed severe mental health issues and was found dead five years later… in 2004 the sport was not cleaner than it was in 1999… maybe things should have been handled differently and maybe in this case the guy should be
eft alone, before he decides to turn the gun on himself…0 -
I think it would be wrong to comment further on the reasons and this and that… It is what it is, whatever they do, the cat will not come back… vendettas will only generate more problems.webboo said:
I would suggest that someone so Psychopathic that they think it’s ok to kill a neighbours pet would only be killing themselves because society will not let them behave as they would like. Or it would be a case” if I’m dead you can’t get back at me”ugo.santalucia said:
4k better off?First.Aspect said:How does the cat owner feel about all of this?
I do not know, but a bit of restorative justive would probably go a long way. Learn to forgive is something that would benefit society a great deal.
Unrelated, but from 1999 a public prosecutor in Italy decided that Pantani had to become the example, to eradicate doping practice from sport.
The result is that he developed severe mental health issues and was found dead five years later… in 2004 the sport was not cleaner than it was in 1999… maybe things should have been handled differently and maybe in this case the guy should be
eft alone, before he decides to turn the gun on himself…
left the forum March 20230
