Lean and mean
Comments
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I don’t think home scales with impedence give particularly good results… the more professional ones in Gyms where you need to hold the plates with your hands are better, but ultimately the method is not very good… basically it looks at how conductive you are and therefore comes up with a ratio of fat/water that gives that kind of result… the result is heavily affected by moisture on your feet, skin depth etc…N0bodyOfTheGoat said:
I'm rather dubious too, I was relatively skin and bone in summer '17, only ever had our seeemingly dodgy scales as a reference for fat numbers.ugo.santalucia said:I don’t think you can be 73kg and 10% and 87kg at 12% in the same life… not without growth hormone… I’ll ask Schwartzy though… 😉
my wife sands her feet and I don’t… she always came up leaner
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I had a similar approach when I did audax and therefore big mileages… used to do 8k miles per year, did not really work. I was about 10kg heavier than I am now… mostly down to cakes and biscuits, beer and loads of sugar in tea nad coffeephotonic69 said:I weigh a bit more than I want to, but hey, most people do.
I cycle so that I can drink beer.
left the forum March 20230 -
Twenty plus years ago when I was seriously in to my rock climber. I would generally diet Monday to Saturday. Having climbed on the Saturday I would eat what like Saturday night and have drink especially if I got up the climb I was projecting.
As well as dieting I would run 2 or 3 times a week, go to the climbing wall or use my home training board 3 times.
I got up some hard for me climbs but it was a constant battle to stick to the regime. I was probably a stone lighter at my lowest weight than is my natural weight just with regular exercise.
These I monitor my weight try and cut down if I find it creeping up. However I’ve done harder shorter climbs when heavy that I did when I was light.0 -
some would say you had exercise bulimia… 😉webboo said:Twenty plus years ago when I was seriously in to my rock climber. I would generally diet Monday to Saturday. Having climbed on the Saturday I would eat what like Saturday night and have drink especially if I got up the climb I was projecting.
As well as dieting I would run 2 or 3 times a week, go to the climbing wall or use my home training board 3 times.
I got up some hard for me climbs but it was a constant battle to stick to the regime. I was probably a stone lighter at my lowest weight than is my natural weight just with regular exercise.
These I monitor my weight try and cut down if I find it creeping up. However I’ve done harder shorter climbs when heavy that I did when I was light.
left the forum March 20230 -
I would say I was targeting certain sporting goals through training and diet. I knew what and why I was doing it and didn’t deny it when the subject came up. You will find that another aspect of eating disorders is an unwillingness to discuss it or usually a flat denial there is an issue.ugo.santalucia said:
some would say you had exercise bulimia… 😉webboo said:Twenty plus years ago when I was seriously in to my rock climber. I would generally diet Monday to Saturday. Having climbed on the Saturday I would eat what like Saturday night and have drink especially if I got up the climb I was projecting.
As well as dieting I would run 2 or 3 times a week, go to the climbing wall or use my home training board 3 times.
I got up some hard for me climbs but it was a constant battle to stick to the regime. I was probably a stone lighter at my lowest weight than is my natural weight just with regular exercise.
These I monitor my weight try and cut down if I find it creeping up. However I’ve done harder shorter climbs when heavy that I did when I was light.
If I had exercise bulimia then Saturday and Sundays excesses would not have happened or Sunday would have involved trying to burn off Saturdays calories. However it usually was a family day such as taking daughter for her riding lesson.
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kingstongraham said:
Do you not enjoy cycling?photonic69 said:I weigh a bit more than I want to, but hey, most people do.
I cycle so that I can drink beer.
Yeah, that too. It's 'win-win' for me!Sometimes. Maybe. Possibly.
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When I trained seriously a few years back for the haute route, I went from 68kg(or was it 66?) to 61.5kg . I was 12% BF (calipers not scan) and my coach wanted me down to 6%. I’m just under 6ft tall. I did that over the course of 4 months, carefully controlling my diet, mapping everything, and hit the event at my target weight, and my MAP had also increased significantly. At around 63kg I felt great, but under that I just had that feel I was on the ragged edge. Thankfully it was for one event and my coach also recommended gaining weight straight after. He suggested no weight loss over winter as you’re more likely to get ill, so weight loss was in late spring summer.
I love food, but during the weight loss I was tracking everything and felt like a robot. I really fell out of love with food and began to resent it. It was ‘just fuel’. What was fun though was going out to restaurants just before my event. I looked really gaunt, but was ordering extra helpings of everything with my dinner, and the faces on the waiters were priceless! ‘How come someone so skinny eat all that?’. I was riding lots, and eating loads but still managing fat loss.
I am naturally a light person, and I generally sit at 65kgs without trying or watching my diet. And losing weight never really has any negative impact on my power. Plan to get down to 62.5 kg for HC’s this year.2 -
6% is crazy low, dangerously low…wavefront said:When I trained seriously a few years back for the haute route, I went from 68kg(or was it 66?) to 61.5kg . I was 12% BF (calipers not scan) and my coach wanted me down to 6%. I’m just under 6ft tall. I did that over the course of 4 months, carefully controlling my diet, mapping everything, and hit the event at my target weight, and my MAP had also increased significantly. At around 63kg I felt great, but under that I just had that feel I was on the ragged edge. Thankfully it was for one event and my coach also recommended gaining weight straight after. He suggested no weight loss over winter as you’re more likely to get ill, so weight loss was in late spring summer.
I love food, but during the weight loss I was tracking everything and felt like a robot. I really fell out of love with food and began to resent it. It was ‘just fuel’. What was fun though was going out to restaurants just before my event. I looked really gaunt, but was ordering extra helpings of everything with my dinner, and the faces on the waiters were priceless! ‘How come someone so skinny eat all that?’. I was riding lots, and eating loads but still managing fat loss.
I am naturally a light person, and I generally sit at 65kgs without trying or watching my diet. And losing weight never really has any negative impact on my power. Plan to get down to 62.5 kg for HC’s this year.
HC? Which age category are you?
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This is a tricky thread, as has been alluded to, any attempt to keep weight and bf down, means some level of obsessivness IMO. I guess it's a case that if your focus negatively impacts on daily life and routine then it becomes unhealthy, from both a physical and mental aspect. Having said that, I think us amateurs can take a sensible approach to training and diet which meets our goals and stays positive.
Everyone's body composition is different and different combos of diet, training volumes and intensity work for different people.
Personally, the sheer volume of riding keeps me lean, and a large concentration at zone 2 is a big part of that. I know based on experience that less volume, even at a higher intensity would see me put on weight.
I haven't weighed or checked bf since my last lab test pre covid. Then I was 59kg and 9.8% bf. I know I am lighter and leaner now as I average 4-5000km a year more riding. I would take a well educated guess I am about 7% body fat now.
I do not calorie control, fast or reduce food intake in any way. Primarily this is because I don't need to, I actually eat more due to the amount of cycling I do. I think once you get beyond the 15,000km a year mark you have to eat well otherwise you would collapse.
Some of the key things I do diet wise are pretty standard but include:
- no processed/ready meals
- never eat takeaway more than once or twice month
- eat smaller, regular meals (most people would be suprised that their portion sizes are likely double what they really need)
- all meals cooked from fresh.
- only eat real food on the bike, no gels or energy products at all.
- lots of fruit and veg.
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Yup, you’re right, it was on the limit low. Was being coached so was reassured, and it was only to drop that low for a few weeks for the haute route. I was 40 then, now closer to 50. Never really entered open HC’s, and just stayed local doing club and local HC’s (used to be in Surrey, now Aberdeenshire). I adore climbing, I guess play to your strengths and all that.ugo.santalucia said:
6% is crazy low, dangerously low…
HC? Which age category are you?
BTW, have you read Matt Fitzgerald’s book Racing Weight? I’d really recommend it if you haven’t.
Are you looking to drop weight Ugo? Or looking to get to a certain w/kg for a certain duration?
I’m no sprinter so the longer the better for me, which rules out a lot of the popular HC’s. I did the Teesdale MountainTT, and the Cairngorm HC, both much better length. I should move to the alps!
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I have the book, but have not read beyond chapter 2… I will try again.wavefront said:
Yup, you’re right, it was on the limit low. Was being coached so was reassured, and it was only to drop that low for a few weeks for the haute route. I was 40 then, now closer to 50. Never really entered open HC’s, and just stayed local doing club and local HC’s (used to be in Surrey, now Aberdeenshire). I adore climbing, I guess play to your strengths and all that.ugo.santalucia said:
6% is crazy low, dangerously low…
HC? Which age category are you?
BTW, have you read Matt Fitzgerald’s book Racing Weight? I’d really recommend it if you haven’t.
Are you looking to drop weight Ugo? Or looking to get to a certain w/kg for a certain duration?
I’m no sprinter so the longer the better for me, which rules out a lot of the popular HC’s. I did the Teesdale MountainTT, and the Cairngorm HC, both much better length. I should move to the alps!
you should be happy the National is a long one this year… the Struggle, 12-20 minutes…
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All this, absolutely!MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:
Some of the key things I do diet wise are pretty standard but include:
- no processed/ready meals
- never eat takeaway more than once or twice month
- eat smaller, regular meals (most people would be suprised that their portion sizes are likely double what they really need)
- all meals cooked from fresh.
- only eat real food on the bike, no gels or energy products at all.
- lots of fruit and veg.
If anyone is serious about improving their performance cut the processed stuff and cook proper enjoyable tasty fresh food. I’d not do takeaways more than once every couple of months and make them a proper treat to look forward to and really enjoy. Any more regularly and they lose that ‘special’ feeling.
I’d would argue about the on bike nutrition - I feel there is a need for gels etc depending on the session.
I’d also make sure you eat and drink well on the bike, don’t skimp, and eat well immediately after the ride if you can. It’ll set you up to train better the next day.1 -
I’d would argue about the on bike nutrition - I feel there is a need for gels etc depending on the session
Fair point, I just don't get on with them so I avoid in general. Appreciate that they do have their place though and are a helpful part of nutrition for a lot of cyclists.2 -
I don’t normally eat on the bike, as I do shorter rides. Occasionally, I carry a gel for emergenciesleft the forum March 20230
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MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:I’d would argue about the on bike nutrition - I feel there is a need for gels etc depending on the session
Fair point, I just don't get on with them so I avoid in general. Appreciate that they do have their place though and are a helpful part of nutrition for a lot of cyclists.
I'd only ever use them for racing or maybe similar events like sportives. Unless people are using gels and sports drinks on most rides I can't see it making a huge difference to their weight though especially if it's just instead of food rather than as well as.
On the whole for me weight is about mileage and will power - currently somewhat lacking in both. Re the guy mentioned up thread who limited himself to one mince pie over Christmas - I don't think that's a bad way to live if you can stick to it.
Whatever the issues with a super model saying it there's an element of truth in Kate Moss' "nothing tastes as good as skinny feels" - or at least nothing tastes as good as sticking with the fast lads on the Saturday morning ride feels.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]1 -
gutted I wasn’t quick enough to quote Kate Moss first… 😀DeVlaeminck said:MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:I’d would argue about the on bike nutrition - I feel there is a need for gels etc depending on the session
Fair point, I just don't get on with them so I avoid in general. Appreciate that they do have their place though and are a helpful part of nutrition for a lot of cyclists.
I'd only ever use them for racing or maybe similar events like sportives. Unless people are using gels and sports drinks on most rides I can't see it making a huge difference to their weight though especially if it's just instead of food rather than as well as.
On the whole for me weight is about mileage and will power - currently somewhat lacking in both. Re the guy mentioned up thread who limited himself to one mince pie over Christmas - I don't think that's a bad way to live if you can stick to it.
Whatever the issues with a super model saying it there's an element of truth in Kate Moss' "nothing tastes as good as skinny feels" - or at least nothing tastes as good as sticking with the fast lads on the Saturday morning ride feels.
left the forum March 20230 -
A couple of thoughts.
As this thread isn’t completely about food , but how to become lean and mean, you really SHOULD eat well on the bike. This is where nutrition counts, despite you thinking it’s ‘just a short ride’. It’s not always about fueling that particular short ride, but you should always be thinking about how to fuel your recovery and the next ride. Especially important if your training sessions are coming thick and fast (split day workouts, or next day). If your sessions are getting over an hour then unarguably, you should be eating.
That oft quoted 20min window after a hard ride - use it, and get a proper recovery drink down you. The window doesn’t open and shut suddenly but it’s effective to be thinking about recovery immediately - as above - so you can go again tomorrow.
Get some water down you in the winter months. If you’re not hydrated, you’ll soon lose power. I find it really hard to drink in the cold, so set an alarm to remind me. Even in the cold, you’ll still be sweating lots.
Looking forward to reading others tips.1 -
I thought the window was about nutrient absorption... you can absorb a bit more than your usual share. Does it matter, if you are not doing mammoth sessions? I rarely exceed 1K KCal on a ride, which is fairly easily scoffed afterwards throughout the day. Aside from milk, I see that all these protein and recovery drinks tend to be also full of sugar, so I avoid them. I normally treat myself to egg on toast and if I am really indulgent, I throw in a bit of black pudding too.wavefront said:A couple of thoughts.
As this thread isn’t completely about food , but how to become lean and mean, you really SHOULD eat well on the bike. This is where nutrition counts, despite you thinking it’s ‘just a short ride’. It’s not always about fueling that particular short ride, but you should always be thinking about how to fuel your recovery and the next ride. Especially important if your training sessions are coming thick and fast (split day workouts, or next day). If your sessions are getting over an hour then unarguably, you should be eating.
That oft quoted 20min window after a hard ride - use it, and get a proper recovery drink down you. The window doesn’t open and shut suddenly but it’s effective to be thinking about recovery immediately - as above - so you can go again tomorrow.
Get some water down you in the winter months. If you’re not hydrated, you’ll soon lose power. I find it really hard to drink in the cold, so set an alarm to remind me. Even in the cold, you’ll still be sweating lots.
Looking forward to reading others tips.
As for water... I have to balance the need to learn to ride 24 minutes without drinking whilst going at full gas... you can't really have a drink during a time trial race, you compromise aerodynamics by carrying a bottle and you have to break your position to get access to it. I normally do carry a bottle for a 25, being an hour or so.
I have been known to be a bit of a cactus, compared to folks who regularly carry 2 x 800ml bottles for a short ride
left the forum March 20231 -
That 20 mins. window is specifically for sugar intake as within that time muscles seem to be most efficient at restoring muscle glycogen.ugo.santalucia said:
I thought the window was about nutrient absorption... you can absorb a bit more than your usual share. Does it matter, if you are not doing mammoth sessions? I rarely exceed 1K KCal on a ride, which is fairly easily scoffed afterwards throughout the day. Aside from milk, I see that all these protein and recovery drinks tend to be also full of sugar, so I avoid them. I normally treat myself to egg on toast and if I am really indulgent, I throw in a bit of black pudding too.wavefront said:A couple of thoughts.
As this thread isn’t completely about food , but how to become lean and mean, you really SHOULD eat well on the bike. This is where nutrition counts, despite you thinking it’s ‘just a short ride’. It’s not always about fueling that particular short ride, but you should always be thinking about how to fuel your recovery and the next ride. Especially important if your training sessions are coming thick and fast (split day workouts, or next day). If your sessions are getting over an hour then unarguably, you should be eating.
That oft quoted 20min window after a hard ride - use it, and get a proper recovery drink down you. The window doesn’t open and shut suddenly but it’s effective to be thinking about recovery immediately - as above - so you can go again tomorrow.
Get some water down you in the winter months. If you’re not hydrated, you’ll soon lose power. I find it really hard to drink in the cold, so set an alarm to remind me. Even in the cold, you’ll still be sweating lots.
Looking forward to reading others tips.
As for water... I have to balance the need to learn to ride 24 minutes without drinking whilst going at full gas... you can't really have a drink during a time trial race, you compromise aerodynamics by carrying a bottle and you have to break your position to get access to it. I normally do carry a bottle for a 25, being an hour or so.
I have been known to be a bit of a cactus, compared to folks who regularly carry 2 x 800ml bottles for a short ride
This is why those post-ride recovery drinks are "full of sugar", because simple carbs are most time and energy efficient for converting to muscle glycogen. Proteins can also be converted to glycogen via gluconeogenesis, but this is more energy demanding and takes more time as do converting dietary fat to glucose via ketosis, which also requires a period of time for adaptation to produce ketones.
But if you are eating a normocaloric or energy surplus diet with an adequate supply or carbohydrates and aren't planning to ride within another 24 hours you don't need that rapid topping up as after that time your stores will be fully topped up anyway.
Training can also be done with a partially depleted muscle glycogen, but this shouldn't be done chronically.0 -
Exactly… very good practice in a Grand Tour, but for Joe average probably unnecessary, if not detrimental to gut health…katani said:
That 20 mins. window is specifically for sugar intake as within that time muscles seem to be most efficient at restoring muscle glycogen.ugo.santalucia said:
I thought the window was about nutrient absorption... you can absorb a bit more than your usual share. Does it matter, if you are not doing mammoth sessions? I rarely exceed 1K KCal on a ride, which is fairly easily scoffed afterwards throughout the day. Aside from milk, I see that all these protein and recovery drinks tend to be also full of sugar, so I avoid them. I normally treat myself to egg on toast and if I am really indulgent, I throw in a bit of black pudding too.wavefront said:A couple of thoughts.
As this thread isn’t completely about food , but how to become lean and mean, you really SHOULD eat well on the bike. This is where nutrition counts, despite you thinking it’s ‘just a short ride’. It’s not always about fueling that particular short ride, but you should always be thinking about how to fuel your recovery and the next ride. Especially important if your training sessions are coming thick and fast (split day workouts, or next day). If your sessions are getting over an hour then unarguably, you should be eating.
That oft quoted 20min window after a hard ride - use it, and get a proper recovery drink down you. The window doesn’t open and shut suddenly but it’s effective to be thinking about recovery immediately - as above - so you can go again tomorrow.
Get some water down you in the winter months. If you’re not hydrated, you’ll soon lose power. I find it really hard to drink in the cold, so set an alarm to remind me. Even in the cold, you’ll still be sweating lots.
Looking forward to reading others tips.
As for water... I have to balance the need to learn to ride 24 minutes without drinking whilst going at full gas... you can't really have a drink during a time trial race, you compromise aerodynamics by carrying a bottle and you have to break your position to get access to it. I normally do carry a bottle for a 25, being an hour or so.
I have been known to be a bit of a cactus, compared to folks who regularly carry 2 x 800ml bottles for a short ride
This is why those post-ride recovery drinks are "full of sugar", because simple carbs are most time and energy efficient for converting to muscle glycogen. Proteins can also be converted to glycogen via gluconeogenesis, but this is more energy demanding and takes more time as do converting dietary fat to glucose via ketosis, which also requires a period of time for adaptation to produce ketones.
But if you are eating a normocaloric or energy surplus diet with an adequate supply or carbohydrates and aren't planning to ride within another 24 hours you don't need that rapid topping up as after that time your stores will be fully topped up anyway.
Training can also be done with a partially depleted muscle glycogen, but this shouldn't be done chronically.
left the forum March 20230 -
My take home message from Katani’s post it isn’t the same as Ugo’s - it’s really not pro level stuff.
Your average joe will likely be training hard, and often training again within a 24 hr window.
Recovery should be a mix of carbs and protein. Let’s not use the word sugar - semantics I know, but everyone seems to think sugar is the devil these days…. But if you said eating carbs? Everyone’s fine with it. Anyway, separate discussion , eating ‘sugar’ on the bike is way different to eating it off the bike.
If you have the right diet your gut health could be very good too.
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Are you the same Ugo who would stop for fish and chips half way through a 200K ride. Or don’t we mention that Ugo anymore. 😹ugo.santalucia said:
I thought the window was about nutrient absorption... you can absorb a bit more than your usual share. Does it matter, if you are not doing mammoth sessions? I rarely exceed 1K KCal on a ride, which is fairly easily scoffed afterwards throughout the day. Aside from milk, I see that all these protein and recovery drinks tend to be also full of sugar, so I avoid them. I normally treat myself to egg on toast and if I am really indulgent, I throw in a bit of black pudding too.wavefront said:A couple of thoughts.
As this thread isn’t completely about food , but how to become lean and mean, you really SHOULD eat well on the bike. This is where nutrition counts, despite you thinking it’s ‘just a short ride’. It’s not always about fueling that particular short ride, but you should always be thinking about how to fuel your recovery and the next ride. Especially important if your training sessions are coming thick and fast (split day workouts, or next day). If your sessions are getting over an hour then unarguably, you should be eating.
That oft quoted 20min window after a hard ride - use it, and get a proper recovery drink down you. The window doesn’t open and shut suddenly but it’s effective to be thinking about recovery immediately - as above - so you can go again tomorrow.
Get some water down you in the winter months. If you’re not hydrated, you’ll soon lose power. I find it really hard to drink in the cold, so set an alarm to remind me. Even in the cold, you’ll still be sweating lots.
Looking forward to reading others tips.
As for water... I have to balance the need to learn to ride 24 minutes without drinking whilst going at full gas... you can't really have a drink during a time trial race, you compromise aerodynamics by carrying a bottle and you have to break your position to get access to it. I normally do carry a bottle for a 25, being an hour or so.
I have been known to be a bit of a cactus, compared to folks who regularly carry 2 x 800ml bottles for a short ride1 -
Sometimes I wonder… 😂webboo said:
Are you the same Ugo who would stop for fish and chips half way through a 200K ride. Or don’t we mention that Ugo anymore. 😹ugo.santalucia said:
I thought the window was about nutrient absorption... you can absorb a bit more than your usual share. Does it matter, if you are not doing mammoth sessions? I rarely exceed 1K KCal on a ride, which is fairly easily scoffed afterwards throughout the day. Aside from milk, I see that all these protein and recovery drinks tend to be also full of sugar, so I avoid them. I normally treat myself to egg on toast and if I am really indulgent, I throw in a bit of black pudding too.wavefront said:A couple of thoughts.
As this thread isn’t completely about food , but how to become lean and mean, you really SHOULD eat well on the bike. This is where nutrition counts, despite you thinking it’s ‘just a short ride’. It’s not always about fueling that particular short ride, but you should always be thinking about how to fuel your recovery and the next ride. Especially important if your training sessions are coming thick and fast (split day workouts, or next day). If your sessions are getting over an hour then unarguably, you should be eating.
That oft quoted 20min window after a hard ride - use it, and get a proper recovery drink down you. The window doesn’t open and shut suddenly but it’s effective to be thinking about recovery immediately - as above - so you can go again tomorrow.
Get some water down you in the winter months. If you’re not hydrated, you’ll soon lose power. I find it really hard to drink in the cold, so set an alarm to remind me. Even in the cold, you’ll still be sweating lots.
Looking forward to reading others tips.
As for water... I have to balance the need to learn to ride 24 minutes without drinking whilst going at full gas... you can't really have a drink during a time trial race, you compromise aerodynamics by carrying a bottle and you have to break your position to get access to it. I normally do carry a bottle for a 25, being an hour or so.
I have been known to be a bit of a cactus, compared to folks who regularly carry 2 x 800ml bottles for a short ride
left the forum March 20230 -
I appreciate the different viewpoints, but my approach is definitely the same as @wavefront. Eating and drinking well for any cyclist that rides and trains consistently is imperative. Just because you don't feel you need to eat or drink doesn't mean you don't, or that it won't be beneficial to long term recovery and performance
I think a lot of the trends in nutrition advice are still stuck in the old pro habits, "no food on rides under three hours" and that type of thing. Personally, I would go with the advice above thread, anything over an hour and you should eat.
If you look at young pro's now (I know, we are not pro's, but still), they are all obviously lean, but many are muscular (Van Aert, Van Der Poel, Pogacar etc). They are clearly focussed on power and speed and not weight obsessive like the old guard (Froome, Nibali etc). There is a young Lotto rider called Harry Sweeney who does excellent youtube vids and is a talented amateur chef. He smashes food down, on and off the bike as he knows fuelling efforts is far better than weight loss to add an extra 0. whatever to his w/kg.
I wouldn't work on the assumption that less training volume equals less food. For a HC rider doing lots of short intense sessions, you are constantly pushing your body to its limits, eating properly to aid training and recovery is important.
Wavefront also makes a good point about carbohydrate, don't worry about it, your body needs it and will utilise it. I consume a huge amount and don't put weight on. Quick eg, I did 4hrs 20mins at zone 2 today with no efforts. Breakfast was around 400g porridge (cooked) with a large banana, cup of dried fruit and a dessert spoon of honey. Had a large flapjack, cereal bar, snickers bar, and 700 ml each of water and lucozade sport on the bike. Had a yohgurt, banana milkshake and cup of salted peanuts as soon as I got home. I don't worry about whether it is a little too much, or a bit too little here and there, as on a day to day basis I know I am getting my nutrition pretty correct.
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any advice on a portable snack or recipe for one that does not contain sugar/honey/dried fruit or chemical sweeteners?left the forum March 20230
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https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/knowledge/nutrition/article/izn20150612-Rice-cakes-0ugo.santalucia said:any advice on a portable snack or recipe for one that does not contain sugar/honey/dried fruit or chemical sweeteners?
You can leave out the honey….. but why would you?“Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”
Desmond Tutu0 -
Small new potatoes. Boiled and dressed with a little olive oil, salt and pepper. Carry them in a little ziploc freezer bag.ugo.santalucia said:any advice on a portable snack or recipe for one that does not contain sugar/honey/dried fruit or chemical sweeteners?
That or mini pork pies.1 -
I am surprised they risk carry around cooked rice… recipe for food poisoningslowmart said:
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/knowledge/nutrition/article/izn20150612-Rice-cakes-0ugo.santalucia said:any advice on a portable snack or recipe for one that does not contain sugar/honey/dried fruit or chemical sweeteners?
You can leave out the honey….. but why would you?
left the forum March 20230 -
Hats off to you, I think I need your help to get back on track!!!MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:I know I am getting my nutrition pretty correct.
I’m getting a few things wrong just now - I think mostly because we moved last year and it’s upset some of my routines and some laziness has crept in so despite me saying all the above, I’m not completely practising what I’m preaching. Think this thread will serve to help me get organised again.
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re. W/kgMidlandsGrimpeur2 said:I appreciate the different viewpoints, but my approach is definitely the same as @wavefront. Eating and drinking well for any cyclist that rides and trains consistently is imperative. Just because you don't feel you need to eat or drink doesn't mean you don't, or that it won't be beneficial to long term recovery and performance
I think a lot of the trends in nutrition advice are still stuck in the old pro habits, "no food on rides under three hours" and that type of thing. Personally, I would go with the advice above thread, anything over an hour and you should eat.
If you look at young pro's now (I know, we are not pro's, but still), they are all obviously lean, but many are muscular (Van Aert, Van Der Poel, Pogacar etc). They are clearly focussed on power and speed and not weight obsessive like the old guard (Froome, Nibali etc). There is a young Lotto rider called Harry Sweeney who does excellent youtube vids and is a talented amateur chef. He smashes food down, on and off the bike as he knows fuelling efforts is far better than weight loss to add an extra 0. whatever to his w/kg.
I wouldn't work on the assumption that less training volume equals less food. For a HC rider doing lots of short intense sessions, you are constantly pushing your body to its limits, eating properly to aid training and recovery is important.
Wavefront also makes a good point about carbohydrate, don't worry about it, your body needs it and will utilise it. I consume a huge amount and don't put weight on. Quick eg, I did 4hrs 20mins at zone 2 today with no efforts. Breakfast was around 400g porridge (cooked) with a large banana, cup of dried fruit and a dessert spoon of honey. Had a large flapjack, cereal bar, snickers bar, and 700 ml each of water and lucozade sport on the bike. Had a yohgurt, banana milkshake and cup of salted peanuts as soon as I got home. I don't worry about whether it is a little too much, or a bit too little here and there, as on a day to day basis I know I am getting my nutrition pretty correct.
for most hill climbs, I am looking at an effort which is 5-6 W/kg, so it isxa case of whether losing 1-kg loses me more or less than that amount. Let’s say that I have never found putting up 3 kg giving me an extra 15-20 Watts.
Pogacar is muscular, but Vingegaard is skinny, so the two body types both exist and both can be effective… that has always been the case for stage races winners, Coppi was skinny, but Merckx was muscular, Pantani was skinny, Ullrich was muscular. Interestingly, Wiggins only had success in GT when he became unrealistically skinny… at his track weight he was useless.
left the forum March 20231
