'Ouses, Greenbelt and stuff

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  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 18,641
    First.Aspect said:

    briantrumpet said:

    rjsterry said:

    briantrumpet said:

    Pross said:

    briantrumpet said:

    @rjsterry Have you ever looked at the blog Demolition Exeter? It's well worth a look.

    I'm sure the theme could be copied for most cities, but it's horrifically eye-opening on how little value was placed on 'old buildings' in Exeter from before the Victorian times onwards by town planners. I can only assume the general public didn't have any particular regard for the old buildings either, given how much has been destroyed in the name of 'progress' with nary a word of dissent, as far as I can tell.

    If you take away sentimentality it makes sense for housing to be regularly demolished and rebuilt to suit the demands of the current generation. Far too much stuff seems to get listed and basically impossible to adapt to modern use. I find old buildings far more interesting and aesthetically appealing as a rule but from a practical point of view demolition and rebuilding regularly is the way to go. I suspect if we started again even the location of many towns and cities would change.

    Hmm, a good one for debate. Exeter is certainly constrained by its layout: radial roads still based on Roman roads converging on a single river crossing. The contrast with 'modern' towns based on grid layout couldn't be starker. Taken to its extreme, your suggestion would suggest that flattening and rebuilding (probably not on a river) would the logical solution.

    Actually, Exeter centre would have looked similar to old York, had not much of the medieval city been half-timbered houses which had degraded into slums by the 19th century. They didn't take much tearing down. The Roman/medieval gatehouses were rather more resistant, I suspect.

    The trouble with the flatten-&-rebuild strategy is that you then get stuck with stuff that itself dates quickly... Hitler did his bit in Exeter, and it got stuck with very utilitarian brick buildings of the 50's, and think Birmingham's Bullring or Bristol's Broadmead for large-scale soon-hated rebuilds.
    Bristol nerdery: Broadmead is an interesting one. The main shopping area used to be around Castle Street in what is now Castle Park, centred on the original medieval crossroads where the streets connecting the bridges over the Avon and Frome intersect with the streets connecting the docks to the long demolished castle.
    The area was actually very mixed with a school, two churches, housing, a brewery and various other industries all crammed in around narrow streets. From a town planning you can see why having everything cheek by jowel in buildings of variable quality was thought to be less than ideal. It was severely damaged in the blitz and the local authority took the opportunity to tidy things up. There was significant resistance from shopkeepers but the decision was taken to create a new shopping precinct in Broadmead, surrounded by the newly completed inner ring road. The Castle Street area was promised as a new cultural quarter but after years as car parking was eventually landscaped as a park. With only shops and only easily accessible by car, Broadmead was almost deserted after 5 o'clock and on Sundays, so it's not that much of a surprise that it was somewhat less loved than the old Castle Street area.
    Thanks for the nerdery. Given that two of my 4x grandparents carried on trades in central Bristol (inc Broad Street) and a great grandparent at Temple Street, I ought to have done more reading about pre-war Bristol.

    I do remember the smell of the Courage Brewery wafting over school in the 1970s... it was where they carried on brewing real ales Courage Best and Directors.
    Thanks for confirming that you have 4x grandparents. If it was 3x grandparents, or 2x, I'd be concerned about 6x toes on one foot.

    OOI, what would you call great great great great grandparents (other than very dead)?
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 15,381
    briantrumpet said:

    First.Aspect said:

    briantrumpet said:

    rjsterry said:

    briantrumpet said:

    Pross said:

    briantrumpet said:

    @rjsterry Have you ever looked at the blog Demolition Exeter? It's well worth a look.

    I'm sure the theme could be copied for most cities, but it's horrifically eye-opening on how little value was placed on 'old buildings' in Exeter from before the Victorian times onwards by town planners. I can only assume the general public didn't have any particular regard for the old buildings either, given how much has been destroyed in the name of 'progress' with nary a word of dissent, as far as I can tell.

    If you take away sentimentality it makes sense for housing to be regularly demolished and rebuilt to suit the demands of the current generation. Far too much stuff seems to get listed and basically impossible to adapt to modern use. I find old buildings far more interesting and aesthetically appealing as a rule but from a practical point of view demolition and rebuilding regularly is the way to go. I suspect if we started again even the location of many towns and cities would change.

    Hmm, a good one for debate. Exeter is certainly constrained by its layout: radial roads still based on Roman roads converging on a single river crossing. The contrast with 'modern' towns based on grid layout couldn't be starker. Taken to its extreme, your suggestion would suggest that flattening and rebuilding (probably not on a river) would the logical solution.

    Actually, Exeter centre would have looked similar to old York, had not much of the medieval city been half-timbered houses which had degraded into slums by the 19th century. They didn't take much tearing down. The Roman/medieval gatehouses were rather more resistant, I suspect.

    The trouble with the flatten-&-rebuild strategy is that you then get stuck with stuff that itself dates quickly... Hitler did his bit in Exeter, and it got stuck with very utilitarian brick buildings of the 50's, and think Birmingham's Bullring or Bristol's Broadmead for large-scale soon-hated rebuilds.
    Bristol nerdery: Broadmead is an interesting one. The main shopping area used to be around Castle Street in what is now Castle Park, centred on the original medieval crossroads where the streets connecting the bridges over the Avon and Frome intersect with the streets connecting the docks to the long demolished castle.
    The area was actually very mixed with a school, two churches, housing, a brewery and various other industries all crammed in around narrow streets. From a town planning you can see why having everything cheek by jowel in buildings of variable quality was thought to be less than ideal. It was severely damaged in the blitz and the local authority took the opportunity to tidy things up. There was significant resistance from shopkeepers but the decision was taken to create a new shopping precinct in Broadmead, surrounded by the newly completed inner ring road. The Castle Street area was promised as a new cultural quarter but after years as car parking was eventually landscaped as a park. With only shops and only easily accessible by car, Broadmead was almost deserted after 5 o'clock and on Sundays, so it's not that much of a surprise that it was somewhat less loved than the old Castle Street area.
    Thanks for the nerdery. Given that two of my 4x grandparents carried on trades in central Bristol (inc Broad Street) and a great grandparent at Temple Street, I ought to have done more reading about pre-war Bristol.

    I do remember the smell of the Courage Brewery wafting over school in the 1970s... it was where they carried on brewing real ales Courage Best and Directors.
    Thanks for confirming that you have 4x grandparents. If it was 3x grandparents, or 2x, I'd be concerned about 6x toes on one foot.

    OOI, what would you call great great great great grandparents (other than very dead)?
    Your Highness, statistically.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 18,641
    First.Aspect said:

    briantrumpet said:

    First.Aspect said:

    briantrumpet said:

    rjsterry said:

    briantrumpet said:

    Pross said:

    briantrumpet said:

    @rjsterry Have you ever looked at the blog Demolition Exeter? It's well worth a look.

    I'm sure the theme could be copied for most cities, but it's horrifically eye-opening on how little value was placed on 'old buildings' in Exeter from before the Victorian times onwards by town planners. I can only assume the general public didn't have any particular regard for the old buildings either, given how much has been destroyed in the name of 'progress' with nary a word of dissent, as far as I can tell.

    If you take away sentimentality it makes sense for housing to be regularly demolished and rebuilt to suit the demands of the current generation. Far too much stuff seems to get listed and basically impossible to adapt to modern use. I find old buildings far more interesting and aesthetically appealing as a rule but from a practical point of view demolition and rebuilding regularly is the way to go. I suspect if we started again even the location of many towns and cities would change.

    Hmm, a good one for debate. Exeter is certainly constrained by its layout: radial roads still based on Roman roads converging on a single river crossing. The contrast with 'modern' towns based on grid layout couldn't be starker. Taken to its extreme, your suggestion would suggest that flattening and rebuilding (probably not on a river) would the logical solution.

    Actually, Exeter centre would have looked similar to old York, had not much of the medieval city been half-timbered houses which had degraded into slums by the 19th century. They didn't take much tearing down. The Roman/medieval gatehouses were rather more resistant, I suspect.

    The trouble with the flatten-&-rebuild strategy is that you then get stuck with stuff that itself dates quickly... Hitler did his bit in Exeter, and it got stuck with very utilitarian brick buildings of the 50's, and think Birmingham's Bullring or Bristol's Broadmead for large-scale soon-hated rebuilds.
    Bristol nerdery: Broadmead is an interesting one. The main shopping area used to be around Castle Street in what is now Castle Park, centred on the original medieval crossroads where the streets connecting the bridges over the Avon and Frome intersect with the streets connecting the docks to the long demolished castle.
    The area was actually very mixed with a school, two churches, housing, a brewery and various other industries all crammed in around narrow streets. From a town planning you can see why having everything cheek by jowel in buildings of variable quality was thought to be less than ideal. It was severely damaged in the blitz and the local authority took the opportunity to tidy things up. There was significant resistance from shopkeepers but the decision was taken to create a new shopping precinct in Broadmead, surrounded by the newly completed inner ring road. The Castle Street area was promised as a new cultural quarter but after years as car parking was eventually landscaped as a park. With only shops and only easily accessible by car, Broadmead was almost deserted after 5 o'clock and on Sundays, so it's not that much of a surprise that it was somewhat less loved than the old Castle Street area.
    Thanks for the nerdery. Given that two of my 4x grandparents carried on trades in central Bristol (inc Broad Street) and a great grandparent at Temple Street, I ought to have done more reading about pre-war Bristol.

    I do remember the smell of the Courage Brewery wafting over school in the 1970s... it was where they carried on brewing real ales Courage Best and Directors.
    Thanks for confirming that you have 4x grandparents. If it was 3x grandparents, or 2x, I'd be concerned about 6x toes on one foot.

    OOI, what would you call great great great great grandparents (other than very dead)?
    Your Highness, statistically.

    All I can manage is a peruke maker.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 15,381
    briantrumpet said:

    First.Aspect said:

    briantrumpet said:

    First.Aspect said:

    briantrumpet said:

    rjsterry said:

    briantrumpet said:

    Pross said:

    briantrumpet said:

    @rjsterry Have you ever looked at the blog Demolition Exeter? It's well worth a look.

    I'm sure the theme could be copied for most cities, but it's horrifically eye-opening on how little value was placed on 'old buildings' in Exeter from before the Victorian times onwards by town planners. I can only assume the general public didn't have any particular regard for the old buildings either, given how much has been destroyed in the name of 'progress' with nary a word of dissent, as far as I can tell.

    If you take away sentimentality it makes sense for housing to be regularly demolished and rebuilt to suit the demands of the current generation. Far too much stuff seems to get listed and basically impossible to adapt to modern use. I find old buildings far more interesting and aesthetically appealing as a rule but from a practical point of view demolition and rebuilding regularly is the way to go. I suspect if we started again even the location of many towns and cities would change.

    Hmm, a good one for debate. Exeter is certainly constrained by its layout: radial roads still based on Roman roads converging on a single river crossing. The contrast with 'modern' towns based on grid layout couldn't be starker. Taken to its extreme, your suggestion would suggest that flattening and rebuilding (probably not on a river) would the logical solution.

    Actually, Exeter centre would have looked similar to old York, had not much of the medieval city been half-timbered houses which had degraded into slums by the 19th century. They didn't take much tearing down. The Roman/medieval gatehouses were rather more resistant, I suspect.

    The trouble with the flatten-&-rebuild strategy is that you then get stuck with stuff that itself dates quickly... Hitler did his bit in Exeter, and it got stuck with very utilitarian brick buildings of the 50's, and think Birmingham's Bullring or Bristol's Broadmead for large-scale soon-hated rebuilds.
    Bristol nerdery: Broadmead is an interesting one. The main shopping area used to be around Castle Street in what is now Castle Park, centred on the original medieval crossroads where the streets connecting the bridges over the Avon and Frome intersect with the streets connecting the docks to the long demolished castle.
    The area was actually very mixed with a school, two churches, housing, a brewery and various other industries all crammed in around narrow streets. From a town planning you can see why having everything cheek by jowel in buildings of variable quality was thought to be less than ideal. It was severely damaged in the blitz and the local authority took the opportunity to tidy things up. There was significant resistance from shopkeepers but the decision was taken to create a new shopping precinct in Broadmead, surrounded by the newly completed inner ring road. The Castle Street area was promised as a new cultural quarter but after years as car parking was eventually landscaped as a park. With only shops and only easily accessible by car, Broadmead was almost deserted after 5 o'clock and on Sundays, so it's not that much of a surprise that it was somewhat less loved than the old Castle Street area.
    Thanks for the nerdery. Given that two of my 4x grandparents carried on trades in central Bristol (inc Broad Street) and a great grandparent at Temple Street, I ought to have done more reading about pre-war Bristol.

    I do remember the smell of the Courage Brewery wafting over school in the 1970s... it was where they carried on brewing real ales Courage Best and Directors.
    Thanks for confirming that you have 4x grandparents. If it was 3x grandparents, or 2x, I'd be concerned about 6x toes on one foot.

    OOI, what would you call great great great great grandparents (other than very dead)?
    Your Highness, statistically.

    All I can manage is a peruke maker.
    I might have missed a "great".

    Me and Ross Kemp, you know? Like bruvathas.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,922
    _
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 28,253
    edited November 2023
    The author appears to acknowledge that there is in fact a significant shortage of social housing (council and HA). Short of compulsory purchase, of all empty property, I'm not clear how that is addressed without building more. Does feel like yet another headline saying something completely different from the article.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    edited November 2023
    https://www.ft.com/content/813f596c-1a94-48ca-8699-00730928f3b5?accessToken=zwAGCTwJszxIkdOBP1lsGpRIytOGmQBzCSjztQ.MEUCIDStbaX_v9U1wThbcY4_Fm6uyvu65NQsdhUcK776XjPfAiEAgtNCw96CkBiQjvuQ5c5vFQcCmuEyyYv3mytX8Y6UWCY&sharetype=gift&token=cf2ece76-c8d4-481e-a55f-479eee3179c6#comments-anchor


    This in the FT today. I sit on the board of a business which supplies building products to housebuilders and we are flying and aboutto run out of capacity. The main issue is getting investors to let us spend our own money on expanding capacity and these headlines really don't help, especially as M&A prices are at an all time now in the sector and a lot of high profile administrations of our competitors means we are continuing to grow.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,516
    rjsterry said:

    The author appears to acknowledge that there is in fact a significant shortage of social housing (council and HA). Short of compulsory purchase, of all empty property, I'm not clear how that is addressed without building more. Does feel like yet another headline saying something completely different from the article.

    Maybe with a leftie Government likely to come in next year they can take state ownership of any houses that aren't the owners first home. That should keep all the Greenbelt fanatics happy :wink:
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 28,253
    🤪
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,516
    Just to show how you'll never find a site everyone is happy to develop for housing. There is a Brownfield site being developed in Newport for 500 houses. A high proportion of these will be affordable or social including over a hundred shared ownership and the site includes a new school and local centre. The site was previously a steelworks that has been demolished and remediated and has acted as a temporary staff car park for the hospital for a few years. A large part of that hospital's function has now been replaced by a new hospital about 5 miles away so the previous parking issues have been eased significantly. It's located alongside one of the main routes through the city with lots of bus services including the route into Cardiff. The city centre is about a 15 minute walk with two retail parks a similar distance away, the bus station is also around 15 minutes away and the mainline railway station serving Cardiff, Bristol and London is about a 20-25 minute walk.

    You'd be hard pressed to find a more sustainable, Brownfield site but people are still moaning that there'll be too much traffic (the factory would have previously generated a lot of traffic as would the car park and the main road is actually probably carrying less than it was 30 years ago due to a relief road), there's a lack of infrastruture (there's a new school on site and a couple of comprehensive schools within walking distance plus a couple of hospitals within a 10 minute walk) and that the land should continue to be used for parking.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 18,641
    Pross said:

    Just to show how you'll never find a site everyone is happy to develop for housing. There is a Brownfield site being developed in Newport for 500 houses. A high proportion of these will be affordable or social including over a hundred shared ownership and the site includes a new school and local centre. The site was previously a steelworks that has been demolished and remediated and has acted as a temporary staff car park for the hospital for a few years. A large part of that hospital's function has now been replaced by a new hospital about 5 miles away so the previous parking issues have been eased significantly. It's located alongside one of the main routes through the city with lots of bus services including the route into Cardiff. The city centre is about a 15 minute walk with two retail parks a similar distance away, the bus station is also around 15 minutes away and the mainline railway station serving Cardiff, Bristol and London is about a 20-25 minute walk.

    You'd be hard pressed to find a more sustainable, Brownfield site but people are still moaning that there'll be too much traffic (the factory would have previously generated a lot of traffic as would the car park and the main road is actually probably carrying less than it was 30 years ago due to a relief road), there's a lack of infrastruture (there's a new school on site and a couple of comprehensive schools within walking distance plus a couple of hospitals within a 10 minute walk) and that the land should continue to be used for parking.


    Two main things in people's minds:

    "Can I drive door to door easily?" (Any walk of more than 100m is totally unacceptable, obvs.)

    "Why do they have to build new houses anyway?"

    And from that they come up with all the reasons any new development is a bad idea.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Pross said:

    Just to show how you'll never find a site everyone is happy to develop for housing. There is a Brownfield site being developed in Newport for 500 houses. A high proportion of these will be affordable or social including over a hundred shared ownership and the site includes a new school and local centre. The site was previously a steelworks that has been demolished and remediated and has acted as a temporary staff car park for the hospital for a few years. A large part of that hospital's function has now been replaced by a new hospital about 5 miles away so the previous parking issues have been eased significantly. It's located alongside one of the main routes through the city with lots of bus services including the route into Cardiff. The city centre is about a 15 minute walk with two retail parks a similar distance away, the bus station is also around 15 minutes away and the mainline railway station serving Cardiff, Bristol and London is about a 20-25 minute walk.

    You'd be hard pressed to find a more sustainable, Brownfield site but people are still moaning that there'll be too much traffic (the factory would have previously generated a lot of traffic as would the car park and the main road is actually probably carrying less than it was 30 years ago due to a relief road), there's a lack of infrastruture (there's a new school on site and a couple of comprehensive schools within walking distance plus a couple of hospitals within a 10 minute walk) and that the land should continue to be used for parking.

    People just don't like change and should be ignored
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,516
    briantrumpet said:

    Pross said:

    Just to show how you'll never find a site everyone is happy to develop for housing. There is a Brownfield site being developed in Newport for 500 houses. A high proportion of these will be affordable or social including over a hundred shared ownership and the site includes a new school and local centre. The site was previously a steelworks that has been demolished and remediated and has acted as a temporary staff car park for the hospital for a few years. A large part of that hospital's function has now been replaced by a new hospital about 5 miles away so the previous parking issues have been eased significantly. It's located alongside one of the main routes through the city with lots of bus services including the route into Cardiff. The city centre is about a 15 minute walk with two retail parks a similar distance away, the bus station is also around 15 minutes away and the mainline railway station serving Cardiff, Bristol and London is about a 20-25 minute walk.

    You'd be hard pressed to find a more sustainable, Brownfield site but people are still moaning that there'll be too much traffic (the factory would have previously generated a lot of traffic as would the car park and the main road is actually probably carrying less than it was 30 years ago due to a relief road), there's a lack of infrastruture (there's a new school on site and a couple of comprehensive schools within walking distance plus a couple of hospitals within a 10 minute walk) and that the land should continue to be used for parking.


    Two main things in people's minds:

    "Can I drive door to door easily?" (Any walk of more than 100m is totally unacceptable, obvs.)

    "Why do they have to build new houses anyway?"

    And from that they come up with all the reasons any new development is a bad idea.
    Exactly - "I have a house so why do we need to build more?"
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Pross said:

    briantrumpet said:

    Pross said:

    Just to show how you'll never find a site everyone is happy to develop for housing. There is a Brownfield site being developed in Newport for 500 houses. A high proportion of these will be affordable or social including over a hundred shared ownership and the site includes a new school and local centre. The site was previously a steelworks that has been demolished and remediated and has acted as a temporary staff car park for the hospital for a few years. A large part of that hospital's function has now been replaced by a new hospital about 5 miles away so the previous parking issues have been eased significantly. It's located alongside one of the main routes through the city with lots of bus services including the route into Cardiff. The city centre is about a 15 minute walk with two retail parks a similar distance away, the bus station is also around 15 minutes away and the mainline railway station serving Cardiff, Bristol and London is about a 20-25 minute walk.

    You'd be hard pressed to find a more sustainable, Brownfield site but people are still moaning that there'll be too much traffic (the factory would have previously generated a lot of traffic as would the car park and the main road is actually probably carrying less than it was 30 years ago due to a relief road), there's a lack of infrastruture (there's a new school on site and a couple of comprehensive schools within walking distance plus a couple of hospitals within a 10 minute walk) and that the land should continue to be used for parking.


    Two main things in people's minds:

    "Can I drive door to door easily?" (Any walk of more than 100m is totally unacceptable, obvs.)

    "Why do they have to build new houses anyway?"

    And from that they come up with all the reasons any new development is a bad idea.
    Exactly - "I have a house so why do we need to build more?"
    not just new houses
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 18,641
    Pross said:

    briantrumpet said:

    Pross said:

    Just to show how you'll never find a site everyone is happy to develop for housing. There is a Brownfield site being developed in Newport for 500 houses. A high proportion of these will be affordable or social including over a hundred shared ownership and the site includes a new school and local centre. The site was previously a steelworks that has been demolished and remediated and has acted as a temporary staff car park for the hospital for a few years. A large part of that hospital's function has now been replaced by a new hospital about 5 miles away so the previous parking issues have been eased significantly. It's located alongside one of the main routes through the city with lots of bus services including the route into Cardiff. The city centre is about a 15 minute walk with two retail parks a similar distance away, the bus station is also around 15 minutes away and the mainline railway station serving Cardiff, Bristol and London is about a 20-25 minute walk.

    You'd be hard pressed to find a more sustainable, Brownfield site but people are still moaning that there'll be too much traffic (the factory would have previously generated a lot of traffic as would the car park and the main road is actually probably carrying less than it was 30 years ago due to a relief road), there's a lack of infrastruture (there's a new school on site and a couple of comprehensive schools within walking distance plus a couple of hospitals within a 10 minute walk) and that the land should continue to be used for parking.


    Two main things in people's minds:

    "Can I drive door to door easily?" (Any walk of more than 100m is totally unacceptable, obvs.)

    "Why do they have to build new houses anyway?"

    And from that they come up with all the reasons any new development is a bad idea.
    Exactly - "I have a house so why do we need to build more?"

    Exeter moaners are like all the others... "lose green fields", "all the extra cars will clog the roads", etc etc, I'm actually quite happy with the way DCC & district councils are doing it on the whole, as they are putting the stuff in pretty sensible places and are doing a reasonable job of thinking about alternative means of travel. My only gripe would be that both EDDC and Teignbridge are milking Exeter by putting major developments around the city, with all the pressure going on Exeter without the appropriate council tax receipts. Sooner or later the boundary of Exeter ought to be expanded to reflect the effective doubling of the size of the city.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 18,641
    Pross said:

    briantrumpet said:

    Pross said:

    Just to show how you'll never find a site everyone is happy to develop for housing. There is a Brownfield site being developed in Newport for 500 houses. A high proportion of these will be affordable or social including over a hundred shared ownership and the site includes a new school and local centre. The site was previously a steelworks that has been demolished and remediated and has acted as a temporary staff car park for the hospital for a few years. A large part of that hospital's function has now been replaced by a new hospital about 5 miles away so the previous parking issues have been eased significantly. It's located alongside one of the main routes through the city with lots of bus services including the route into Cardiff. The city centre is about a 15 minute walk with two retail parks a similar distance away, the bus station is also around 15 minutes away and the mainline railway station serving Cardiff, Bristol and London is about a 20-25 minute walk.

    You'd be hard pressed to find a more sustainable, Brownfield site but people are still moaning that there'll be too much traffic (the factory would have previously generated a lot of traffic as would the car park and the main road is actually probably carrying less than it was 30 years ago due to a relief road), there's a lack of infrastruture (there's a new school on site and a couple of comprehensive schools within walking distance plus a couple of hospitals within a 10 minute walk) and that the land should continue to be used for parking.


    Two main things in people's minds:

    "Can I drive door to door easily?" (Any walk of more than 100m is totally unacceptable, obvs.)

    "Why do they have to build new houses anyway?"

    And from that they come up with all the reasons any new development is a bad idea.
    Exactly - "I have a house so why do we need to build more?"

    The wife of a friend of mine apparently was moaning about all the new houses around Exeter, so my friend pointed to her out that all the houses she'd lived in were on estates built in the 20th century on green fields. Not sure how well the observation went down...
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,516
    briantrumpet said:

    Pross said:

    briantrumpet said:

    Pross said:

    Just to show how you'll never find a site everyone is happy to develop for housing. There is a Brownfield site being developed in Newport for 500 houses. A high proportion of these will be affordable or social including over a hundred shared ownership and the site includes a new school and local centre. The site was previously a steelworks that has been demolished and remediated and has acted as a temporary staff car park for the hospital for a few years. A large part of that hospital's function has now been replaced by a new hospital about 5 miles away so the previous parking issues have been eased significantly. It's located alongside one of the main routes through the city with lots of bus services including the route into Cardiff. The city centre is about a 15 minute walk with two retail parks a similar distance away, the bus station is also around 15 minutes away and the mainline railway station serving Cardiff, Bristol and London is about a 20-25 minute walk.

    You'd be hard pressed to find a more sustainable, Brownfield site but people are still moaning that there'll be too much traffic (the factory would have previously generated a lot of traffic as would the car park and the main road is actually probably carrying less than it was 30 years ago due to a relief road), there's a lack of infrastruture (there's a new school on site and a couple of comprehensive schools within walking distance plus a couple of hospitals within a 10 minute walk) and that the land should continue to be used for parking.


    Two main things in people's minds:

    "Can I drive door to door easily?" (Any walk of more than 100m is totally unacceptable, obvs.)

    "Why do they have to build new houses anyway?"

    And from that they come up with all the reasons any new development is a bad idea.
    Exactly - "I have a house so why do we need to build more?"

    The wife of a friend of mine apparently was moaning about all the new houses around Exeter, so my friend pointed to her out that all the houses she'd lived in were on estates built in the 20th century on green fields. Not sure how well the observation went down...
    I was working on a proposal for a cycle racing circuit recently and some of the residents on a nearby estate were complaining about how it would impact their views. I'd previously worked on the design of those houses about 5 years earlier (not to mention that the cycle circuit is located next to the delightful view of a landfill and recycling centre).
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 18,641

    Just re-upping this thread.

    The other thing about the housing market is its inherent inertia, like a massive oil tanker, but with controls that might or might not have the desired effect. Any sorts of financial help towards renting or buying tends not to end up in the pockets of those they are supposed to be helping and just get absorbed into the industry itself. The extended low interest rates while benefiting those with smaller mortgages have come back not only to bite those with larger mortgages but also those not yet on the 'housing ladder', having enabled the cost of homes to increase to match the previous affordability of large mortgages.

    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,922

    Like I said, they’re not building houses where people need them. By far.


    https://x.com/sam_dumitriu/status/1746830581428564014?s=46&t=Q7O5dnx-0MXQv9qE3vz1vg


    _
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,922
    edited January 15

    And as for problems at planning, look at this thread and some of the stats on quite how ridiculous the application process is:




    https://x.com/britainremade/status/1746826486345036189?s=46&t=Q7O5dnx-0MXQv9qE3vz1vg
    https://x.com/britainremade/status/1746826506431615399?s=46&t=Q7O5dnx-0MXQv9qE3vz1vg


    _
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 15,381

    I'm not sure that reflects housing planning applications. Tunnel. House. Not the same.

    Going back to the FT picture, does the article define "enough"? Because there are places adjacent to one another that are red and blue respectively, and equidistant from the nearest city.

  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,516
    https://forum.bikeradar.com/discussion/comment/21046646#Comment_21046646

    I don't really need to read that, I see it on a daily basis.

  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 28,253
    https://forum.bikeradar.com/discussion/comment/21046647#Comment_21046647

    I wouldn't be so dismissive. Splitting one (too large) house into two flats and we already into hundreds of pages. Lots of which will never be read.

    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,922
    https://forum.bikeradar.com/discussion/comment/21046647#Comment_21046647

    Did you read the small print?

    _
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,516
    https://forum.bikeradar.com/discussion/comment/21046651#Comment_21046651

    Just took a quick look at a site my colleagues have been working on since 2014 for around 500 houses. It's an allocated site which as you'll know will have already taken a huge amount of input to effectively show it is a site suitable for residential development. A second Transport Assessment has reecntly been issued that runs to nearly 300 pages with the appendices. We have then also submitted a series of technical notes and other documents so that is already probably in excess of 500 pages for a single discipline. When you add on design & access, ecology, environmental impact, flood risk / drainage, site investigation, archeology etc. I'm actually surprised for a scheme of the magnitude of Lower Thames Crossing the amount of pages isn't significantly higher than stated.

  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 15,381
    https://forum.bikeradar.com/discussion/comment/21046653#Comment_21046653

    Nope, but thanks for pointing it out. My curiosity does not extend to going down the rabbit hole of ONS methodology.

  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,516

    Not sure the merger of two of the biggest housebuilders, Barratt and Redrow, is a good thing for getting more built and for keeping prices of new builds down.

  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 18,641
    https://forum.bikeradar.com/discussion/comment/21049925#Comment_21049925


    I wondered about that when I saw the headline. Seems to be anti-competitive. Is the Monopolies & Mergers Commission still a thing, and if it is, has it been neutered as much as Ofcom, Ofwat etc?

    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 28,253

    AAAAAaaargggggh!!

    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1756647786701832566?t=cnVP_0zHZLhuc4IxwuU02w&s=19

    Why the f*** are we interviewing actors about planning legislation and renewable energy??🤯

    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 12,919

    Oh look, another actor bloke thing adopting the Looza Fox approach to reality.

    Just F off.

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