The Big 'Let's sell our cars and take buses/ebikes instead' thread (warning: probably very dull)
Comments
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Bring it on, but I think he didn't see that as an achievable next step. I think for inner London, congestion charging is the likely next move.
Then when something further is needed for outer London, the infrastructure is ready.0 -
Hasn't congestion charging existed and then been replaced?0
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With regards the Birmingham Uni article. Isn't this essentially outlining the real crux of the issue, that to improve environmental impacts and therefore increase health outcomes, we need a range of infrastructure and behavioural changes?
I do agree that ULEZ and clean air zones as a standalone measure are not enough (although an important piece of the puzzle IMO).
It's been hinted at throughout this thread, but one of the biggest issues is structural and economic inequality (as is the cause of most lower health related outcomes).
Installing clean air zones needs to be implemented alongside more green spaces, less car journeys, less densely populated housing, more efficient public transport etc.
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Is the direction of travel for a lot of that the wrong direction?
Interestingly, just looked up ONS data for total UK vehicle miles travelled. Down by 50% since 2011.
That can't be right, surely?0 -
That sounds in keeping with the thread. Sell your car too!pangolin said:
Not for a few weeks. I get a local train more regularly.TheBigBean said:
Have you taken a bus recently?pangolin said:This is exhausting
It's very reliable actually. Slower than cycling though.0 -
The start of the new school year today in our area and the associated massive increase in traffic on my route to work hammers home just how much people reply on their cars. It's insane. Cars are an intrinsic part of life now and I think some people would rather lose a hand than give up their car.
I can't see this changing anytime soon.Sometimes. Maybe. Possibly.
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No. It still exists for central London. £15 a day to drive in central London between 7am and 6pm weekdays, noon - 6pm weekends. That's on top of the ULEZ charge if you are in a non-compliant car.First.Aspect said:Hasn't congestion charging existed and then been replaced?
ULEZ previous boundary was "inner" London, which is a larger area than the congestion charge zone.0 -
Except for taxis and private hire cars. Really wish they were made to pay.kingstongraham said:
No. It still exists for central London. £15 a day to drive in central London between 7am and 6pm weekdays, noon - 6pm weekends. That's on top of the ULEZ charge if you are in a non-compliant car.First.Aspect said:Hasn't congestion charging existed and then been replaced?
ULEZ previous boundary was "inner" London, which is a larger area than the congestion charge zone.0 -
So this is what confuses me. Most of the problem is cars per se, so why make the congestion charge component contingent on what you are driving? Even EVs create congestion and increase emissions by other vehicles.kingstongraham said:
No. It still exists for central London. £15 a day to drive in central London between 7am and 6pm weekdays, noon - 6pm weekends. That's on top of the ULEZ charge if you are in a non-compliant car.First.Aspect said:Hasn't congestion charging existed and then been replaced?
ULEZ previous boundary was "inner" London, which is a larger area than the congestion charge zone.
I guess if everyone is in EVs it's up to them how they spend the day, but we aren't there yet.0 -
So this is what confuses me. Most of the problem is cars per se, so why make the congestion charge component contingent on what you are driving? Even EVs create congestion and increase emissions by other vehicles.kingstongraham said:
No. It still exists for central London. £15 a day to drive in central London between 7am and 6pm weekdays, noon - 6pm weekends. That's on top of the ULEZ charge if you are in a non-compliant car.First.Aspect said:Hasn't congestion charging existed and then been replaced?
ULEZ previous boundary was "inner" London, which is a larger area than the congestion charge zone.
I guess if everyone is in EVs it's up to them how they spend the day, but we aren't there yet.0 -
It also makes little sense for electric vehicles to get a 100% discount from a congestion charge. They cause just as much congestion.TheBigBean said:
Except for taxis and private hire cars. Really wish they were made to pay.kingstongraham said:
No. It still exists for central London. £15 a day to drive in central London between 7am and 6pm weekdays, noon - 6pm weekends. That's on top of the ULEZ charge if you are in a non-compliant car.First.Aspect said:Hasn't congestion charging existed and then been replaced?
ULEZ previous boundary was "inner" London, which is a larger area than the congestion charge zone.
At least that one is being phased out.0 -
More of a case that the policy is imperfect (and let's be honest, the gentlest of discouragements to pollute) but is heading in the right direction. Once the sky has not fallen in over this that sets the scene for other more substantial emission controlsFirst.Aspect said:
I am not, but I find the idea odd that because there are other bad policies, a new bad policy is okay.rjsterry said:
Just imagining a double blind test with school children in scuba gear to prove the toxicity of various pollutants.First.Aspect said:It's not the way to do policy.
FA, you have a hopelessly idealistic view of how policy is made.
The pollutants are toxic. The policy doesn't change exposure significantly.
This is you guys:
https://youtu.be/tO5sxLapAts?si=s7Tt8ZKxYkEJS2Rr1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
The EV discount is going at the end of 2025 (!) - it's been there to encourage uptake, I guess, but not really any sense for it continuing.First.Aspect said:
So this is what confuses me. Most of the problem is cars per se, so why make the congestion charge component contingent on what you are driving? Even EVs create congestion and increase emissions by other vehicles.kingstongraham said:
No. It still exists for central London. £15 a day to drive in central London between 7am and 6pm weekdays, noon - 6pm weekends. That's on top of the ULEZ charge if you are in a non-compliant car.First.Aspect said:Hasn't congestion charging existed and then been replaced?
ULEZ previous boundary was "inner" London, which is a larger area than the congestion charge zone.
I guess if everyone is in EVs it's up to them how they spend the day, but we aren't there yet.
Additional measures like school streets, LTNs and reducing the space available for cars and increasing it for cycles and pedestrians also have an effect of reducing car use.
If you drive in central London, you really do have a van full of stuff or you massively prefer going slowly to seeing any of the public.0 -
Currently sat on one (electric too) for the second time this week in order to get to the train station.TheBigBean said:
Have you taken a bus recently?pangolin said:This is exhausting
It’s amazing how much more convenient it becomes when it allows you to have a few drinks on a beautiful sunny afternoon!0 -
Downside of travelling on this bus is the back half (where virtually all the non-priority seating is located) is really high, presumably due to the batteries, and has left me feeling sick before I’ve even touched a drop.0
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Totally impractical if they had to go regularly in and out of the zone,TheBigBean said:
Except for taxis and private hire cars. Really wish they were made to pay.kingstongraham said:
No. It still exists for central London. £15 a day to drive in central London between 7am and 6pm weekdays, noon - 6pm weekends. That's on top of the ULEZ charge if you are in a non-compliant car.First.Aspect said:Hasn't congestion charging existed and then been replaced?
ULEZ previous boundary was "inner" London, which is a larger area than the congestion charge zone.
"Iwford you say mate?.. nah, not goin' out a the zone; cost you a faaaawtune".
Anyhoo, I thought you were bored of this current theme and here you are perpetuating?TheBigBean said:Aren't you lot bored yet?
seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
It's £15 for the whole day.pinno said:
Totally impractical if they had to go regularly in and out of the zone,TheBigBean said:
Except for taxis and private hire cars. Really wish they were made to pay.kingstongraham said:
No. It still exists for central London. £15 a day to drive in central London between 7am and 6pm weekdays, noon - 6pm weekends. That's on top of the ULEZ charge if you are in a non-compliant car.First.Aspect said:Hasn't congestion charging existed and then been replaced?
ULEZ previous boundary was "inner" London, which is a larger area than the congestion charge zone.0 -
Trying to discourage usage of private hire vehicles is on topic I would have thought.pinno said:
Totally impractical if they had to go regularly in and out of the zone,TheBigBean said:
Except for taxis and private hire cars. Really wish they were made to pay.kingstongraham said:
No. It still exists for central London. £15 a day to drive in central London between 7am and 6pm weekdays, noon - 6pm weekends. That's on top of the ULEZ charge if you are in a non-compliant car.First.Aspect said:Hasn't congestion charging existed and then been replaced?
ULEZ previous boundary was "inner" London, which is a larger area than the congestion charge zone.
"Iwford you say mate?.. nah, not goin' out a the zone; cost you a faaaawtune".
Anyhoo, I thought you were bored of this current theme and here you are perpetuating?TheBigBean said:Aren't you lot bored yet?
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Marginally more on topic; seen quite a few DHL and FeEx trikes around the 'hood, with an electric motor to assist the cycling delivery person.
'tis the future that. Quiet, no hassle with traffic calming measures etc.0 -
'cycling delivery person;'.
Hmm...seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
You already see EV delivery vans. Yeah, the cycling bit is a bit futile given the weight of the packages.0
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https://www.smarttransport.org.uk/news/latest-news/fedex-to-start-e-cargo-bike-deliveries-in-london
Yeah I don't know. I like the idea and it's good to see.1 -
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With a load carrying capacity of up to 250kgs and 1.5m cubed capacity our trikes are capable and stable around town.
Powerful motors and large batteries give awesome daily range.
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These 1440wh, 48 volt batteries surpass any previous models in terms of range and charge cycle lifespan which can stretch from 8 to 10 years!
Both Heinzmann motors and AES batteries are a familiar pairing with many thousands of units being used, for instance, by the German postal services.1 -
focuszing723 said:
Not easy to do a 'shoulder check' on that is it, but then most delivery drivers on bicycles I've seen don't seem to give a damn anyway.
Nice idea though.
You'd almost want indicators on that too.Sometimes. Maybe. Possibly.
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Hmmmm, a camera on the back and some type of Google Glasses thing?0
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Yes but if people are on foot, and not driving, it's puts local shops out of business apparently. I have to say, the number of drive through newsagents has dropped dramatically in recent years.kingstongraham said:
The EV discount is going at the end of 2025 (!) - it's been there to encourage uptake, I guess, but not really any sense for it continuing.First.Aspect said:
So this is what confuses me. Most of the problem is cars per se, so why make the congestion charge component contingent on what you are driving? Even EVs create congestion and increase emissions by other vehicles.kingstongraham said:
No. It still exists for central London. £15 a day to drive in central London between 7am and 6pm weekdays, noon - 6pm weekends. That's on top of the ULEZ charge if you are in a non-compliant car.First.Aspect said:Hasn't congestion charging existed and then been replaced?
ULEZ previous boundary was "inner" London, which is a larger area than the congestion charge zone.
I guess if everyone is in EVs it's up to them how they spend the day, but we aren't there yet.
Additional measures like school streets, LTNs and reducing the space available for cars and increasing it for cycles and pedestrians also have an effect of reducing car use.
If you drive in central London, you really do have a van full of stuff or you massively prefer going slowly to seeing any of the public.
Funnily enough I like all of these ideas solely on the grounds of making somewhere nicer to live or work or visit.
Hey ho.0 -
If only there was some technology that would do the same kind of thing but cheaper.focuszing723 said:Hmmmm, a camera on the back and some type of Google Glasses thing?
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TBH they have more visibility in residential areas than any van.photonic69 said:focuszing723 said:
Not easy to do a 'shoulder check' on that is it, but then most delivery drivers on bicycles I've seen don't seem to give a damn anyway.
Nice idea though.
You'd almost want indicators on that too.
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Never understood the leeway taxis get when they are basically doing two trips instead of a private car’s single trip (unless they get another pickup straight away).TheBigBean said:
Trying to discourage usage of private hire vehicles is on topic I would have thought.pinno said:
Totally impractical if they had to go regularly in and out of the zone,TheBigBean said:
Except for taxis and private hire cars. Really wish they were made to pay.kingstongraham said:
No. It still exists for central London. £15 a day to drive in central London between 7am and 6pm weekdays, noon - 6pm weekends. That's on top of the ULEZ charge if you are in a non-compliant car.First.Aspect said:Hasn't congestion charging existed and then been replaced?
ULEZ previous boundary was "inner" London, which is a larger area than the congestion charge zone.
"Iwford you say mate?.. nah, not goin' out a the zone; cost you a faaaawtune".
Anyhoo, I thought you were bored of this current theme and here you are perpetuating?TheBigBean said:Aren't you lot bored yet?
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