Roglic

13

Comments

  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,812
    edited September 2022
    RichN95. said:

    It's funny how when the incident happened and for some time afterwards no-one had a clue what had happened. But once Roglic opened his mouth a couple of days later everyone knew exactly what had happened armed with their own Zapruder films.


    m.r.m. said:

    Pretty much no one else seems to have your difficulty.

    That's because they are on social media and don't have the strength to say 'I don't know' or 'you can't tell from that'. How often do you see that?
    Well, I watched it live and immediately thought wtf was Roglic doing? That thought was triggered by him swinging across the road from his left to right. (try that in a large bunch sprint and see what happens)

    Anyhow, that aside, I didn't see the onrushing bushfire, as like many here, I thought Roglic woyld be of the opinion that it was just another racing incident.
    In that respect, Rich you are 100% correct: he does have a right to his opinion.
    However, when that opinion is deeply critical of another rider, he opens himself to be questioned on the validity of those claims.

    RichN95. said:


    I not trying to apportion blame. I am specifically stating that I don't know. But I like to hear the honest perspectives of those involved.


    Folks didn't set out to intentionally apportion blame, Roglic set that ball in motion.
    Hence folks start to forensically analyses his "perspective".
    RichN95. said:


    you can't tell from that

    So what exactly can we tell?
    Is there anything conclusive that can be extrapolated from the various video and photos?
    I think there is.


    From his own statement, Roglic admits to not having seen Wright, "I don't have eyes in my back".
    So how can he then claim that Fred altered his line and rode into him?

    As for the videos, they all show one clear fact: That regardless of any sideways movement, AT NO TIME was there a bike length between Danny van Poppel and Fred Wright.
    That being the case, it's rider error on Roglic's part.

    You talk about Moscon. What about swapping the crash victims around?
    If Wright had hit the deck, given what we see, time and again from race juries, do you think Roglic would not have been relegated?
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,490
    As an analogy this is a bit like two cars on the motorway. Car 1 in driving in lane 1 and sees lane 3 is moving faster and is in a massive rush so he switches lanes into lane 3 where he is involved in a collision with car 2 that had been in the lane all along. Car 2 is basically undamaged but car 1 spins and gets written off.

    A few days later driver 1 starts telling everyone the crash was the fault of driver 2 as he hadn’t left a big enough gap for him to drive into and ran into the back of him. Everyone tells driver 1 to shut up as he was the one who changed lanes and it was up to him to check it was safe.

    Rich’s position seems to be to say ‘actually we don’t know it was driver 1’s fault as we haven’t seen the point of impact. We don’t know if car 1 hit the side of car 2 or if car 2 hit the back of car 1 so maybe driver 1’s version is correct’.

    The worrying thing is that Rich works for a major insurance company! :wink:
  • Just made the error of clicking on one of the Cyclingnews forum links.

    What a mess that place is... Should their mods not archive some of those 2million page long threads?
  • andyrac
    andyrac Posts: 1,131
    Somebody needs to send him for some off road training.....

    It's all well and good welcoming people from other sports with impressive VO2 and w/kg figures, however, how competent are they? Racecraft, bikehandling, etc
    All Road/ Gravel: tbcWinter: tbcMTB: tbcRoad: tbc"Look at the time...." "he's fallen like an old lady on a cruise ship..."
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,805
    That looks like roglic trying to barge Fred off the wheel to me ..... But what do any of us know we have only been watching and participating in cycling for decades
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • roscoe
    roscoe Posts: 463
    Roglic apparently not doing the TDF this year, they have other plans for him.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,750
    roscoe said:

    Roglic apparently not doing the TDF this year, they have other plans for him.

    Vuelta?
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • roscoe
    roscoe Posts: 463
    pblakeney said:

    roscoe said:

    Roglic apparently not doing the TDF this year, they have other plans for him.

    Vuelta?
    Probably. I thought the plan was he would support Vingegaard and be a Plan B. Obviously not.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,812
    roscoe said:

    Roglic apparently not doing the TDF this year, they have other plans for him.

    Jumbo have, in recent years, announced their TDF team early.
    Here's this year's team:

    VINGEGAARD Jonas
    VAN BAARLE Dylan
    VAN AERT Wout
    BENOOT Tiesj
    LAPORTE Christophe
    VAN HOOYDONCK Nathan
    KUSS Sepp
    KRUIJSWIJK Steven
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 12,675
    ^ that's a team! 😳
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,805
    orraloon said:

    ^ that's a team! 😳

    Serious fire power

    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • roscoe
    roscoe Posts: 463

    roscoe said:

    Roglic apparently not doing the TDF this year, they have other plans for him.

    Jumbo have, in recent years, announced their TDF team early.
    Here's this year's team:

    VINGEGAARD Jonas
    VAN BAARLE Dylan
    VAN AERT Wout
    BENOOT Tiesj
    LAPORTE Christophe
    VAN HOOYDONCK Nathan
    KUSS Sepp
    KRUIJSWIJK Steven
    That’s a strong team! Only one non European and the rest from just 3 countries. Interesting.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,738
    Roglic for the Vuelta would make sense if that's the plan - gives them a realistic challenger for both remaining grand tours.

    It's not like they need him as a Tour domestique and having come through the Giro he's probably too fatigued to be a genuine reserve leader to JV - it'd pretty much ensure he was shagged for the Vuelta too.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,750

    roscoe said:

    Roglic apparently not doing the TDF this year, they have other plans for him.

    Jumbo have, in recent years, announced their TDF team early.
    Here's this year's team:

    VINGEGAARD Jonas
    VAN BAARLE Dylan
    VAN AERT Wout
    BENOOT Tiesj
    LAPORTE Christophe
    VAN HOOYDONCK Nathan
    KUSS Sepp
    KRUIJSWIJK Steven
    :o
    Pog needs to be smart and Ineos need to chase stages.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,812
    edited June 2023
    pblakeney said:

    roscoe said:

    Roglic apparently not doing the TDF this year, they have other plans for him.

    Jumbo have, in recent years, announced their TDF team early.
    Here's this year's team:

    VINGEGAARD Jonas
    VAN BAARLE Dylan
    VAN AERT Wout
    BENOOT Tiesj
    LAPORTE Christophe
    VAN HOOYDONCK Nathan
    KUSS Sepp
    KRUIJSWIJK Steven
    :o
    Pog needs to be smart and Ineos need to chase stages.
    UAE have named 5 of their eight and they aren't exactly weak, either!

    YATES Adam
    POGAČAR Tadej
    SOLER Marc
    MAJKA Rafał
    NOVAK Domen

    But yeah, spot on with Ineos. Chase stages, as so far:

    CASTROVIEJO Jonathan
    KWIATKOWSKI Michał
    RODRÍGUEZ Carlos
    PIDCOCK Thomas
    MARTÍNEZ Daniel Felipe
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,750

    pblakeney said:

    roscoe said:

    Roglic apparently not doing the TDF this year, they have other plans for him.

    Jumbo have, in recent years, announced their TDF team early.
    Here's this year's team:

    VINGEGAARD Jonas
    VAN BAARLE Dylan
    VAN AERT Wout
    BENOOT Tiesj
    LAPORTE Christophe
    VAN HOOYDONCK Nathan
    KUSS Sepp
    KRUIJSWIJK Steven
    :o
    Pog needs to be smart and Ineos need to chase stages.
    UAE have named 5 of their eight and they aren't exactly weak, either!
    ...
    Fair.
    Can still see Jumbo and Pog dropping them all off with 10kms to go though.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,490

    pblakeney said:

    roscoe said:

    Roglic apparently not doing the TDF this year, they have other plans for him.

    Jumbo have, in recent years, announced their TDF team early.
    Here's this year's team:

    VINGEGAARD Jonas
    VAN BAARLE Dylan
    VAN AERT Wout
    BENOOT Tiesj
    LAPORTE Christophe
    VAN HOOYDONCK Nathan
    KUSS Sepp
    KRUIJSWIJK Steven
    :o
    Pog needs to be smart and Ineos need to chase stages.
    UAE have named 5 of their eight and they aren't exactly weak, either!

    YATES Adam
    POGAČAR Tadej
    SOLER Marc
    MAJKA Rafał
    NOVAK Domen

    But yeah, spot on with Ineos. Chase stages, as so far:

    CASTROVIEJO Jonathan
    KWIATKOWSKI Michał
    RODRÍGUEZ Carlos
    PIDCOCK Thomas
    MARTÍNEZ Daniel Felipe
    Soler will presumably be doing his own thing rather than actually helping though.
  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,905
    The Jumbo team seems primarily stacked full of classics men. Benoot, Laporte, van Hoojdonk, WvA, van Baarle. The only pure climbing domestiques they have are Kuss and Kruijswijk, the first of whom must be tired from the Giro and the second of whom is way past his best.

    Now, obviously come Tour time we'll probably be treated to the spectacle of WvA and van Baarle climbing with the best, but on paper they shouldn't be burning teams off in a train. I mean if you're Adam Yates and you can't climb better than all of those JV domestiques then there's something wrong somewhere.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,750
    phreak said:


    ...
    I mean if you're Adam Yates and you can't climb better than all of those JV domestiques then there's something wrong somewhere.

    Depends on the weather. Yates doesn't perform well in the heat.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,905
    pblakeney said:

    phreak said:


    ...
    I mean if you're Adam Yates and you can't climb better than all of those JV domestiques then there's something wrong somewhere.

    Depends on the weather. Yates doesn't perform well in the heat.
    You get my point though. Kuss has just done the Giro so presumably will be a bit tired (and wasn't really any stronger than the likes of Arensman in that), and 35 year old Kruijswijk has finished just one of his last 5 GTs. They're the only pure climbers in the team.

    For UAE, Soler is probably the weakest of their climbing domestiques and finished ahead of the likes of Landa and Hindley in Catalunya recently. I don't think man against man they'll be worried about the mountains. Crosswinds may be another matter given the number of classics riders in the JV squad.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,750
    phreak said:

    pblakeney said:

    phreak said:


    ...
    I mean if you're Adam Yates and you can't climb better than all of those JV domestiques then there's something wrong somewhere.

    Depends on the weather. Yates doesn't perform well in the heat.
    You get my point though. Kuss has just done the Giro so presumably will be a bit tired (and wasn't really any stronger than the likes of Arensman in that)...
    Tbh I think Kuss could have dropped Roglic on the climbs in the Giro.
    A month may well be enough recovery.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,805
    Kuss is going to be fine
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,490
    phreak said:

    pblakeney said:

    phreak said:


    ...
    I mean if you're Adam Yates and you can't climb better than all of those JV domestiques then there's something wrong somewhere.

    Depends on the weather. Yates doesn't perform well in the heat.
    You get my point though. Kuss has just done the Giro so presumably will be a bit tired (and wasn't really any stronger than the likes of Arensman in that), and 35 year old Kruijswijk has finished just one of his last 5 GTs. They're the only pure climbers in the team.

    For UAE, Soler is probably the weakest of their climbing domestiques and finished ahead of the likes of Landa and Hindley in Catalunya recently. I don't think man against man they'll be worried about the mountains. Crosswinds may be another matter given the number of classics riders in the JV squad.
    Van Baarle and WVA have done it before. Putting constant power down for a long period of time is what they do and whilst they aren't built like climbers they have the power levels to be able to keep that constant high pace especially on Tour climbs which tend to be less steep and more consistent than those in other GTs. They don't really need to be setting a pace that the genuine climbers can't ride faster than, just do enough that attacking early and getting a decent gap is too big a risk.
  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,905
    Pross said:

    phreak said:

    pblakeney said:

    phreak said:


    ...
    I mean if you're Adam Yates and you can't climb better than all of those JV domestiques then there's something wrong somewhere.

    Depends on the weather. Yates doesn't perform well in the heat.
    You get my point though. Kuss has just done the Giro so presumably will be a bit tired (and wasn't really any stronger than the likes of Arensman in that), and 35 year old Kruijswijk has finished just one of his last 5 GTs. They're the only pure climbers in the team.

    For UAE, Soler is probably the weakest of their climbing domestiques and finished ahead of the likes of Landa and Hindley in Catalunya recently. I don't think man against man they'll be worried about the mountains. Crosswinds may be another matter given the number of classics riders in the JV squad.
    Van Baarle and WVA have done it before. Putting constant power down for a long period of time is what they do and whilst they aren't built like climbers they have the power levels to be able to keep that constant high pace especially on Tour climbs which tend to be less steep and more consistent than those in other GTs. They don't really need to be setting a pace that the genuine climbers can't ride faster than, just do enough that attacking early and getting a decent gap is too big a risk.
    It will be interesting if the Giro signals a slight change in tactics, as rather than relying on a train to slowly burn riders off, the last domestique seemed to put in a dig that quickly saw just the favourites out on their own together. Vine did it a few times and it neutralised Ineos' relative strength in numbers.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,805
    Pross said:

    phreak said:

    pblakeney said:

    phreak said:


    ...
    I mean if you're Adam Yates and you can't climb better than all of those JV domestiques then there's something wrong somewhere.

    Depends on the weather. Yates doesn't perform well in the heat.
    You get my point though. Kuss has just done the Giro so presumably will be a bit tired (and wasn't really any stronger than the likes of Arensman in that), and 35 year old Kruijswijk has finished just one of his last 5 GTs. They're the only pure climbers in the team.

    For UAE, Soler is probably the weakest of their climbing domestiques and finished ahead of the likes of Landa and Hindley in Catalunya recently. I don't think man against man they'll be worried about the mountains. Crosswinds may be another matter given the number of classics riders in the JV squad.
    Van Baarle and WVA have done it before. Putting constant power down for a long period of time is what they do and whilst they aren't built like climbers they have the power levels to be able to keep that constant high pace especially on Tour climbs which tend to be less steep and more consistent than those in other GTs. They don't really need to be setting a pace that the genuine climbers can't ride faster than, just do enough that attacking early and getting a decent gap is too big a risk.

    Controlling can be just that ..controlling not out pacing ..

    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Mad_Malx
    Mad_Malx Posts: 5,002
    This thread has morphed into pre-TF chat
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,750
    Mad_Malx said:

    This thread has morphed into pre-TF chat

    Ironic given he is the top favourite of those not attending. ;)
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,905
    pblakeney said:

    Mad_Malx said:

    This thread has morphed into pre-TF chat

    Ironic given he is the top favourite of those not attending. ;)
    Which tier was Thomas in again?
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,750
    phreak said:

    pblakeney said:

    Mad_Malx said:

    This thread has morphed into pre-TF chat

    Ironic given he is the top favourite of those not attending. ;)
    Which tier was Thomas in again?
    Slightly below Roglic.
    As shown last week.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,231
    phreak said:

    pblakeney said:

    Mad_Malx said:

    This thread has morphed into pre-TF chat

    Ironic given he is the top favourite of those not attending. ;)
    Which tier was Thomas in again?
    Same as Roglic as shown by last week.