Roglic
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To leave one of the best performing teams?0
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There were rumours of him joining Ineos recently.vincesummerskRoxcBTr said:To leave one of the best performing teams?
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Is a t*t?0
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No idea what his team were doing supporting that nonsense.
Totally bizarre.1 -
If you're going to criticize riders for giving their honest opinions, don't criticize them for not giving much in interviews. The journalists piling on Roglic are the same ones that complain that about their access.
If that's the way he saw, then that's the way he saw it. None of us have seen an angle which can really tell us.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Got to disagree with that. Firstly, Wright has apparently been getting all sorts of abuse on social media about the crash before Roglic made his comments. It is completely irresponsible. Secondly, whilst you don’t see the actual collision it is blatantly clear the other riders were all one behind the other on the right of the road and Roglic swung back over towards them from the left into the line. If Wright moved off his line at all it was minimal to come off the wheel in front.RichN95. said:If you're going to criticize riders for giving their honest opinions, don't criticize them for not giving much in interviews. The journalists piling on Roglic are the same ones that complain that about their access.
If that's the way he saw, then that's the way he saw it. None of us have seen an angle which can really tell us.
You could excuse Roglic making these comments immediately after the finish with the pain and adrenaline of the crash but not after having a chance to watch what happened and reflect on it. He should apologise.3 -
Pross said:
Got to disagree with that. Firstly, Wright has apparently been getting all sorts of abuse on social media about the crash before Roglic made his comments. It is completely irresponsible. Secondly, whilst you don’t see the actual collision it is blatantly clear the other riders were all one behind the other on the right of the road and Roglic swung back over towards them from the left into the line. If Wright moved off his line at all it was minimal to come off the wheel in front.RichN95. said:If you're going to criticize riders for giving their honest opinions, don't criticize them for not giving much in interviews. The journalists piling on Roglic are the same ones that complain that about their access.
If that's the way he saw, then that's the way he saw it. None of us have seen an angle which can really tell us.
You could excuse Roglic making these comments immediately after the finish with the pain and adrenaline of the crash but not after having a chance to watch what happened and reflect on it. He should apologise.
Head-on shots have always been unreliable for showing what really happened. Roglic may very well be wrong. Wright's post race comments to the effect of 'I felt some contact' are also disingenuous.
But that wasn't my point. My point was that riders should be able to give their view of an incident without being hammered by 'legitimate' journalists. Riders shouldn't be bullied by failed French teachers into bland comments. Social media is a cesspit anyway.
Admittedly Jumbo have form on this (Bennett's 'He did a Landis' comments), but the Dutch pride themselves on being rude and obnoxious and we must respect their culture (I remind people of what Michael Caine's character said on the matter in Austin Powers: Goldmember).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcUs5X9glCc Twitter: @RichN950 -
Rog is making a real classless arse of himself over this. There’s absolutely zero footage that backs him up. He has a status in cycling and is using it to trash a young rider. Rubbish.2020/2021/2022 Metric Century Challenge Winner1
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There's zero footage that disproves him either. He's not a rider that usually complains, so if he has something to say he should be allowed to say it without a pile-on by those that complain that riders don't say anything.carbonclem said:Rog is making a real classless censored of himself over this. There’s absolutely zero footage that backs him up. He has a status in cycling and is using it to trash a young rider. Rubbish.
This is the media discourse at the moment (in many spheres)
Media: We don't access. The opinions are anodyne. They are boring and bland
Rider: Here's my honest opinion that you doesn't fit with your opinion based on limited data and previous opinions.
Media: This is disgraceful. This person is awful.
Later on
Media: We don't access. The opinions are anodyne. They are boring and bland
And that's my point. Journalists should report, not stand as judge. They haven't earned the right.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Actually I feel plenty of the footage disproves Roglic. Being ahead does not give you the right of way in cycling. The rider behind here (Wright) has the right to defend his position and hold the line/wheel. He is not allowed to deviate left or right, but he MUST hold the wheel of the rider in front. This is taught to every sprinter. Otherwise no team lead out would work. Opposing riders could simply accelerate a bit and then bump the sprinter out from his lead out. It was a racing incident, but 100% Roglic's fault.
Roglic was first wheel and exited the pace line by swinging off left. He then came back in towards the right and initiated the contact with Fred Wright. Remember Roglic made the great attack and got separation from everyone. He was at the front in front of Pedersen and Ackermann and Wright. When you exit to the left like that you don't get to just come back into the draft at any position you feel like having.PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 20231 -
So you want journalists to be bland and anodyne?RichN95. said:
There's zero footage that disproves him either. He's not a rider that usually complains, so if he has something to say he should be allowed to say it without a pile-on by those that complain that riders don't say anything.carbonclem said:Rog is making a real classless censored of himself over this. There’s absolutely zero footage that backs him up. He has a status in cycling and is using it to trash a young rider. Rubbish.
This is the media discourse at the moment (in many spheres)
Media: We don't access. The opinions are anodyne. They are boring and bland
Rider: Here's my honest opinion that you doesn't fit with your opinion based on limited data and previous opinions.
Media: This is disgraceful. This person is awful.
Later on
Media: We don't access. The opinions are anodyne. They are boring and bland
And that's my point. Journalists should report, not stand as judge. They haven't earned the right.0 -
There is footage that disproves Roglic.
I can accept that he believes (or wants to believe) that it was something done to him, but it just wasn't.
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I am surprised that you would even entertain his views. You have seen enough sprint finishes and causes of crashes in your time.RichN95. said:
There's zero footage that disproves him either. He's not a rider that usually complains, so if he has something to say he should be allowed to say it without a pile-on by those that complain that riders don't say anything.carbonclem said:Rog is making a real classless censored of himself over this. There’s absolutely zero footage that backs him up. He has a status in cycling and is using it to trash a young rider. Rubbish.
4 riders in line on one side of the road, a 5th sees he's on the wrong side of the road.
He then seeks to correct his mistake.
You don't actually have to debate it beyond this point and there's plenty of footage to back this up.
There's also overhead footage of there being no gap, so why decide to slot in at 4th spot instead of the back: a favourable position from which many wins come?
Only one conclusion: Roglic never saw Wright. Again, his mistake.
Robbie McEwen, an expert by any standards, was quite definitive about which rider was at fault.
But, as you say, any rider is entitled to his opinion.
It's just a pity that a load of Twitter yob fanbois decided to take up the baton on his behalf and pile into a blameless young rider with a load of abuse, even before Roglic's outburst.
Folks seem to invest so much into individual riders these days, rather than the sport.
They can't see the wood for the trees.
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.5 -
I can fully understand why Roglic is upset about what happened - when you think of the effort he put in that day and to prepare for the Vuelta after what happened at the Tour, it must have felt devastating to him. That’s before you even go into his past history of crashes and misfortune and the fact that the crash bloody hurt.
However, his team has let him down massively here. Completely pointless statement to put out and they should have addressed any grievances privately. To publish a statement like that incriminating a young rider is pathetic. They then cause an internet pile-on by the village idiots who seem to exist on social media looking for trouble constantly.
The only person to come out of this with any credit is Fred Wright who has had to put out his own statement which is very classy.2 -
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Crash from side on at the end - still hard to say what happened[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0
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Can't see how it's FWs fault looking at that one[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Roglic needs to stop crashing; it's not unlucky when it keeps happening......There's more to being a good rider than w/kg....All Road/ Gravel: tbcWinter: tbcMTB: tbcRoad: tbc"Look at the time...." "he's fallen like an old lady on a cruise ship..."1
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This is decent footage and what someone thinks proves it's Wright's fault - it's just laughable.
Roglic is slowing, tries to slot into what he maybe thinks is the back of the line he's just left, but he's mistaken, and rides into Wright.
His opinion seems to be that if he is trying to get into that position in a sprint, it's Wright's duty to brake and avoid hitting him. I can't see how sprint finishes work if that was the case.1 -
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]4 -
I re-watched the last km and a half this morning to see if I could spot a gap at any time, big enough to fit another rider into, between Wright and Van Poppel: there wasn't.
The overhead shows them all in line coming around the final bend. Roglic tries to take them over to the left hand barriers but Pedersen leads them all up the centre right. He then eases over to the right hand barriers and opens up his sprint. Roglic looks across, sees that he has to change sides and comes across, but initially he stays just to the left of the line. He then makes a second movement and immediately hits the deck.
From that footage above, it's clear that with Wright already on the barriers and that there was no significant gap, the only way he can avoid Roglic is by braking.
Both the sequence of events and even Roglic's own claim (Wright came from behind and rode the handlebars out of my hands) prove this to be the case.
The only debate here is what constitutes behind and the right to insert oneself into the racing line.
Do what Roglic did on the track and its a DQF every time.
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
“Wright turns his wheel hard left” some people shouldn’t be allowed near Twitter. I’’m not sure you can turn your front wheel hard left and keep going straight. What that guy is looking at is the normal change of angle (vertically) from sprinting out of the saddle.kingstongraham said:This is decent footage and what someone thinks proves it's Wright's fault - it's just laughable.
Roglic is slowing, tries to slot into what he maybe thinks is the back of the line he's just left, but he's mistaken, and rides into Wright.
His opinion seems to be that if he is trying to get into that position in a sprint, it's Wright's duty to brake and avoid hitting him. I can't see how sprint finishes work if that was the case.
In everything I’ve seen 4 riders are holding their line tight on the barriers and one moves completely across the road. That’s all there is too it. Roglic had presumably gone so deep in getting that gap that he made an error, it happens and he was the one who has lost out. It was disappointing for all of us who wanted an exciting final week but he is wrong and irresponsible to blame Wright.0 -
It's ironic that Plugge is talking about "respect in the peloton" really, lesson one for a GC rider should probably be "respect the sprinters while they're doing their work". Like "don't put your arm in the thresher" or "don't stand underneath the loader with a raised palette of bricks". D!cking about with the big lads when they're throwing their bikes about is just a really bad idea. They go for tight gaps, they use their elbows, they expect everyone else to do the same, and it's literally their job.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0
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100% Roglic's own error, and utterly irresponsible of him to blame Fred Wright days after the event.
Roglic should be censored for publically blaming someone else like this when he was the one who made the mistake.0 -
This was exactly my take on in, hence why he hesitates after crossing the road.kingstongraham said:This is decent footage and what someone thinks proves it's Wright's fault - it's just laughable.
Roglic is slowing, tries to slot into what he maybe thinks is the back of the line he's just left, but he's mistaken, and rides into Wright.
His opinion seems to be that if he is trying to get into that position in a sprint, it's Wright's duty to brake and avoid hitting him. I can't see how sprint finishes work if that was the case.
He's overlapping DvP so he doesn't follow their acceleration, instead waits until his front wheel is clear until making his second course change.
The guy whining about Wright altering his line is ignoring the fact that he's already on the barriers and that these barriers have legs.
He so fixated upon this that he hasn't looked at Roglic's positional change, which is clearly shown in the video.
All one has to do is look at the white line on the road.
The Breakaway has just discussed the fall out from the Jumbo Visma statement, describing it as biziarre and made this observation.
"If a sprinter zig zags right across the road, without knowing what is happening behind, he expects to crash.""Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Even more ironic is the fact that he tried to pull almost the same move as Dylan Groenewegen, but he was giving away 10kgs = different outcome.No_Ta_Doctor said:It's ironic that Plugge is talking about "respect in the peloton" really, lesson one for a GC rider should probably be "respect the sprinters while they're doing their work". Like "don't put your arm in the thresher" or "don't stand underneath the loader with a raised palette of bricks". D!cking about with the big lads when they're throwing their bikes about is just a really bad idea. They go for tight gaps, they use their elbows, they expect everyone else to do the same, and it's literally their job.
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
On the subject of bizarre viewpoints, one of the contributors to the Disqus thread on this CN article is providing an argument so divorced from reality it's verging on hilarious.0
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Saw this over on the CN forum. I think it's the clearest picture of what happened, so to speak.
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.1 -
I think roglic was seeing a sheet of white light at that moment .... I doubt he knows what happened....
I can understand the frustration thing from roglic pov ... Better off not going public though.... There's no virtue to it ....nothing to be gained
"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0
https://youtu.be/crx-f-HDcWY
