Who is the greatest British (male) road cyclist?

RichN95.
RichN95. Posts: 27,154
in Pro race
Let's settle this. Wiggins and Thomas are in the bronze medal play-off.
Twitter: @RichN95
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  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,247
    Milan - San Remo settles it for me
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,540
    Should probably wait until Sunday. If Cav wins the CG road race there's no debate to be had!
  • mrb123
    mrb123 Posts: 4,616
    This is tough...
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,691
    Thomas wins the bronze hands down no contest unless we need to care about track cycling.


    I’d say Cav is the best ever of his genre whearas Chris is merely top 10 of a more prestigious genre.

    Ultimate boils down to how you value the victories.
    _
  • norvernrob
    norvernrob Posts: 1,447
    rick_chasey said:

    Thomas wins the bronze hands down no contest unless we need to care about track cycling.


    I’d say Cav is the best ever of his genre whearas Chris is merely top 10 of a more prestigious genre.

    Ultimate boils down to how you value the victories.

    This. Picked Froome because I love watching the mountain stages of a GT more than anything else in cycling.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,154
    edited August 2022
    I think that Froome winning all three GTs back to back is perhaps the greatest achievement in British sport in the 21st century.
    I think Lewis Hamilton is the only sportsman who ranks above him in the 21st century. (O'Sullivan, Taylor & McCoy aren't very international)

    Andy Murray? The Nairo Quintana of tennis.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,860
    I don't see froome as British for starters ..I guess he is at a push ...but even if he is cav with that number of top shelf wins in the era he rode.
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,202
    🟫 Cycling and greatness are the only winners in this toxic moral predicament.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,154
    edited August 2022
    mididoctors said:

    I don't see froome as British for starters

    That's a fair comment*. But no-one has proclaimed him as the first African Tour winner. Which he is really.

    Ultimately this should be about their huge palamares of both rather than their national identity.

    *I have a friend that knows Froome's brothers and they consider themselves Kenyans. They waved the Kenyan flag when they turned up to the Tour. To quote my friend "They're British for the NHS"
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • davidof
    davidof Posts: 3,041
    RichN95. said:


    I think Lewis Hamilton is the only sportsman who ranks above him in the 21st century..

    Lewis? Sportsman? Is he pedalling his car then?

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  • wallace_and_gromit
    wallace_and_gromit Posts: 3,068
    edited August 2022
    Froome
    Cav
    Thomas
    Wiggo

    I’m no fan of the Froomedog but his record speaks for itself in GTs and there’s always that Giro stage if you want a single “peak” moment.

    Cav would get the nod if he’d had the edge on Kittel. Froome was unbeatable in his pomp, whereas “peak Kittel” was usually too tough a nut for Cav to crack. Cav’s longevity is incredible though.

    Thomas edges Wiggo by dint of several years of top tier road achievements in addition to GT podiums whereas Wiggo’s peak period was fairly short, albeit ridiculously high.

    Wiggo perhaps gets more credit than he deserves simply by being the first Brit to win the Tour. In retrospect, his 2012 win was quite mundane on a course tailor-made for his TT skills. (And I say all this as the ultimate Wiggo “fanboy” but one has to be objective.)
  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,906
    If you took the "British" bit away and asked yourself whether Cipo was better than, say, LeMond or Indurain, I dare say the vast majority would pick Lemond or Indurain, yet Cipo has a very similar palmares to Cav.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,391
    Silly season has come early! 😁

    That said, I can't pick. Any time I make a "decision" and go to vote I change my mind on the scroll up...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,247
    phreak said:

    If you took the "British" bit away and asked yourself whether Cipo was better than, say, LeMond or Indurain, I dare say the vast majority would pick Lemond or Indurain, yet Cipo has a very similar palmares to Cav.

    They both won something other than grand tour GC. Cipo v Froome though... probably fair.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 20,620
    There was a previous thread on this, so we could see how views have changed with time.

    I've changed from Cav to Froome and Wiggins to Thomas.
  • JimD666
    JimD666 Posts: 1,930
    Gone for Froome, purely because I could watch S19 of the 2018 Giro on repeat. Much as I've bounced around the living room cheering Cav on, none of his full races invoke that kind of reaction.
  • andyrac
    andyrac Posts: 1,132
    That stage really was epic, and Sky drilled it almost from the start. I can recall a 5 Live programme shortly afterwards, and how they planned the whole stage, with refuelling points, etc
    All Road/ Gravel: tbcWinter: tbcMTB: tbcRoad: tbc"Look at the time...." "he's fallen like an old lady on a cruise ship..."
  • bonk_king
    bonk_king Posts: 277
    Is it fair comparing them both given that one was a great GC rider and the other was a great sprinter?

    Froomes giro stage though was about the best thing I've ever seen in cycling.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 18,938
    rick_chasey said:


    I’d say Cav is the best ever of his genre whearas Chris is merely top 10 of a more prestigious genre.


    I don't know why this stat feels wrong but is correct (joint 4th with 7 GTs)

    I think it's possibly that he never got the 5th TDF
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  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,248
    Surely Alf Engers, The King!
    left the forum March 2023
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,691
    Also Froome never had competition that felt like HC competition.
    _
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,154
    edited August 2022
    rick_chasey said:

    Also Froome never had competition that felt like HC competition.


    Collectively, the top five of the 2015 Tour have won 22 Grand Tours (and that excludes two DQs). They included the reigning champion of all three GTs, none of which was Froome.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    Froome for me. No contest.

    Greatest ever British sprinter, well that can only be Cav, but greatest cyclist is more than just sprinting and I think what Froome has achieved makes him the clear winner here.

    I would actually put G as second, ahead of Cav, for the same reasons.

    But best sprinter, Cav, and I think we will be waiting a long long time before another Brit can get even close to what he's achieved.
  • pep.fermi
    pep.fermi Posts: 333
    RichN95. said:


    To quote my friend "They're British for the NHS"

    But the NHS is not for the "British". Is for those resident in Britain, whatever their nationality.
    In fact, British citizen resident outside the UK, are not in the NHS.

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,691
    RichN95. said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Also Froome never had competition that felt like HC competition.


    Collectively, the top five of the 2015 Tour have won 22 Grand Tours (and that excludes two DQs). They included the reigning champion of all three GTs, none of which was Froome.
    Well yeah almost by definition the people he was racing against would indeed be the others likely to win the other races.

    Contador was past his prime and I think we can all agree as good as Nibali is he’s not HC.

    Who of Froome’s rivals are you putting in that catagory?
    _
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,691
    Tour podiums, Froome won:

    2013 - Quintana, J Rod
    2015 - Quintana, Valverde
    2016 - Barnet (lol), Quintana
    2017 - Uran, Barset

    I mean, that’s hardly a heavyweight set of podiums is it?
    _
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,111
    Who are these Barnet and Barset fellas? They must've got on the podium a la Zubeldia.
  • m.r.m.
    m.r.m. Posts: 3,342
    rick_chasey said:

    Also Froome never had competition that felt like HC competition.

    That is because Froome was better at everything except descending (for Nibali, not Contador).
    PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 2023
  • m.r.m.
    m.r.m. Posts: 3,342
    rick_chasey said:

    Thomas wins the bronze hands down no contest unless we need to care about track cycling.


    I’d say Cav is the best ever of his genre whearas Chris is merely top 10 of a more prestigious genre.

    Ultimate boils down to how you value the victories.

    To me it also comes down to what more could they have achieved that they didn't? Cav won everything he could have won (including track stuff except an Olympic gold). Froome was stellar in GT's, but the odd win at LBL, Lombardia, San Sebastian etc. can be asked of an all time great GC rider.
    Though Contador didn't really do this either and I consider him inordinately exceptional and an all time great GC rider.
    PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 2023
  • m.r.m.
    m.r.m. Posts: 3,342
    rick_chasey said:

    Tour podiums, Froome won:

    2013 - Quintana, J Rod
    2015 - Quintana, Valverde
    2016 - Barnet (lol), Quintana
    2017 - Uran, Barset

    I mean, that’s hardly a heavyweight set of podiums is it?

    It's mostly just Quintana and maybe Valverde tbh. I agree with your overall point, but this isn't the best example for it.
    PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 2023

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