I think that Froome winning all three GTs back to back is perhaps the greatest achievement in British sport in the 21st century. I think Lewis Hamilton is the only sportsman who ranks above him in the 21st century. (O'Sullivan, Taylor & McCoy aren't very international)
I don't see froome as British for starters ..I guess he is at a push ...but even if he is cav with that number of top shelf wins in the era he rode.
"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
That's a fair comment*. But no-one has proclaimed him as the first African Tour winner. Which he is really.
Ultimately this should be about their huge palamares of both rather than their national identity.
*I have a friend that knows Froome's brothers and they consider themselves Kenyans. They waved the Kenyan flag when they turned up to the Tour. To quote my friend "They're British for the NHS"
I’m no fan of the Froomedog but his record speaks for itself in GTs and there’s always that Giro stage if you want a single “peak” moment.
Cav would get the nod if he’d had the edge on Kittel. Froome was unbeatable in his pomp, whereas “peak Kittel” was usually too tough a nut for Cav to crack. Cav’s longevity is incredible though.
Thomas edges Wiggo by dint of several years of top tier road achievements in addition to GT podiums whereas Wiggo’s peak period was fairly short, albeit ridiculously high.
Wiggo perhaps gets more credit than he deserves simply by being the first Brit to win the Tour. In retrospect, his 2012 win was quite mundane on a course tailor-made for his TT skills. (And I say all this as the ultimate Wiggo “fanboy” but one has to be objective.)
If you took the "British" bit away and asked yourself whether Cipo was better than, say, LeMond or Indurain, I dare say the vast majority would pick Lemond or Indurain, yet Cipo has a very similar palmares to Cav.
If you took the "British" bit away and asked yourself whether Cipo was better than, say, LeMond or Indurain, I dare say the vast majority would pick Lemond or Indurain, yet Cipo has a very similar palmares to Cav.
They both won something other than grand tour GC. Cipo v Froome though... probably fair.
Gone for Froome, purely because I could watch S19 of the 2018 Giro on repeat. Much as I've bounced around the living room cheering Cav on, none of his full races invoke that kind of reaction.
That stage really was epic, and Sky drilled it almost from the start. I can recall a 5 Live programme shortly afterwards, and how they planned the whole stage, with refuelling points, etc
All Road/ Gravel: tbcWinter: tbcMTB: tbcRoad: tbc"Look at the time...." "he's fallen like an old lady on a cruise ship..."
Also Froome never had competition that felt like HC competition.
Collectively, the top five of the 2015 Tour have won 22 Grand Tours (and that excludes two DQs). They included the reigning champion of all three GTs, none of which was Froome.
Greatest ever British sprinter, well that can only be Cav, but greatest cyclist is more than just sprinting and I think what Froome has achieved makes him the clear winner here.
I would actually put G as second, ahead of Cav, for the same reasons.
But best sprinter, Cav, and I think we will be waiting a long long time before another Brit can get even close to what he's achieved.
But the NHS is not for the "British". Is for those resident in Britain, whatever their nationality. In fact, British citizen resident outside the UK, are not in the NHS.
Also Froome never had competition that felt like HC competition.
Collectively, the top five of the 2015 Tour have won 22 Grand Tours (and that excludes two DQs). They included the reigning champion of all three GTs, none of which was Froome.
Well yeah almost by definition the people he was racing against would indeed be the others likely to win the other races.
Contador was past his prime and I think we can all agree as good as Nibali is he’s not HC.
Who of Froome’s rivals are you putting in that catagory?
Thomas wins the bronze hands down no contest unless we need to care about track cycling.
I’d say Cav is the best ever of his genre whearas Chris is merely top 10 of a more prestigious genre.
Ultimate boils down to how you value the victories.
To me it also comes down to what more could they have achieved that they didn't? Cav won everything he could have won (including track stuff except an Olympic gold). Froome was stellar in GT's, but the odd win at LBL, Lombardia, San Sebastian etc. can be asked of an all time great GC rider. Though Contador didn't really do this either and I consider him inordinately exceptional and an all time great GC rider.
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I’d say Cav is the best ever of his genre whearas Chris is merely top 10 of a more prestigious genre.
Ultimate boils down to how you value the victories.
I think Lewis Hamilton is the only sportsman who ranks above him in the 21st century. (O'Sullivan, Taylor & McCoy aren't very international)
Andy Murray? The Nairo Quintana of tennis.
Ultimately this should be about their huge palamares of both rather than their national identity.
*I have a friend that knows Froome's brothers and they consider themselves Kenyans. They waved the Kenyan flag when they turned up to the Tour. To quote my friend "They're British for the NHS"
Instagramme
Cav
Thomas
Wiggo
I’m no fan of the Froomedog but his record speaks for itself in GTs and there’s always that Giro stage if you want a single “peak” moment.
Cav would get the nod if he’d had the edge on Kittel. Froome was unbeatable in his pomp, whereas “peak Kittel” was usually too tough a nut for Cav to crack. Cav’s longevity is incredible though.
Thomas edges Wiggo by dint of several years of top tier road achievements in addition to GT podiums whereas Wiggo’s peak period was fairly short, albeit ridiculously high.
Wiggo perhaps gets more credit than he deserves simply by being the first Brit to win the Tour. In retrospect, his 2012 win was quite mundane on a course tailor-made for his TT skills. (And I say all this as the ultimate Wiggo “fanboy” but one has to be objective.)
That said, I can't pick. Any time I make a "decision" and go to vote I change my mind on the scroll up...
- @ddraver
I've changed from Cav to Froome and Wiggins to Thomas.
Froomes giro stage though was about the best thing I've ever seen in cycling.
I don't know why this stat feels wrong but is correct (joint 4th with 7 GTs)
I think it's possibly that he never got the 5th TDF
Collectively, the top five of the 2015 Tour have won 22 Grand Tours (and that excludes two DQs). They included the reigning champion of all three GTs, none of which was Froome.
Greatest ever British sprinter, well that can only be Cav, but greatest cyclist is more than just sprinting and I think what Froome has achieved makes him the clear winner here.
I would actually put G as second, ahead of Cav, for the same reasons.
But best sprinter, Cav, and I think we will be waiting a long long time before another Brit can get even close to what he's achieved.
In fact, British citizen resident outside the UK, are not in the NHS.
Contador was past his prime and I think we can all agree as good as Nibali is he’s not HC.
Who of Froome’s rivals are you putting in that catagory?
2013 - Quintana, J Rod
2015 - Quintana, Valverde
2016 - Barnet (lol), Quintana
2017 - Uran, Barset
I mean, that’s hardly a heavyweight set of podiums is it?
Though Contador didn't really do this either and I consider him inordinately exceptional and an all time great GC rider.