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Online Refund Help (not cycling related!)

laurentianlaurentian Posts: 2,037
edited 21 June in The cake stop
A week or so ago I was on a boat trip when my Ray Bans were knocked off my face and into the water.

On the way back from the trip, I ordered a replacement pair on Amazon (using the Amazon App).

The new pair were delivered within a couple of days.

I opened the cardboard outer box and, on picking up the Ray Ban box, noticed that the corner was dented in a little. This didn't overly concern me and so I opened the box to reveal the Ray Ban glasses case and then opened the case.

On opening the case, I noticed that there was not a cleaning cloth in there (no real problem as I already had one that came with my lost pair), however when picking up the sunglasses, it was evident that one of the arms had been broken off. I immediately put the glasses back in the case, the case back in the Ray Ban Box, the Ray Ban box back in the cardboard outer and initiated the returns procedure.

The return was through a post office and so they were posted a couple of days later than when I received the goods as there is no post office in the village where I live.

So, yesterday I received a message from the retail seller via Amazon saying that they would not refund or replace the goods as the item returned was not the brand new item they dispatched.

They said that the arm had been broken off by force, that the glasses had been "worn for a significant time", that there was sand on them and that the lack of a cleaning cloth or Ray Ban leaflet in the box proved that they were not the brand new glasses that they dispatched and that they would not be refunding or replacing.

Here are the facts from my point of view:

*They had not been worn at all (due to broken arm on them!)
*They were replaced into the case/box within seconds of me seeing the broken arm and returned a couple of days later
*There was no cleaning cloth in the case
*The product I returned was exactly what I had received.

I replied to their "we're not refunding" email basically telling them the above.

If what they are saying about sand/evidence or wear etc is true then I understand why they would not replace them but there is no "foul play" on my part and so I can only assume that the glasses had been "switched" either in their warehouse or somewhere in the delivery chain.

They are basically saying that I am trying to defraud them!

They have refunded me £4.85 postage.

Anyone have any ideas how to get my money back or how to take this forward?
Wilier Izoard XP
«13

Posts

  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 9,733
    edited 21 June
    Did you pay on your credit card?

    If so they can help.

    Also Citizen's Advice re consumer protection act
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 24,257
    Well...you've been scammed haven't you.

    Try reporting it to Amazon directly maybe but I have a feeling it will only be to build enough of a case against them to get them kicked off the site. Although I suspect you'll find that happens anyway...

    Like MF says, try and get some money back through the card company.

    Good luck
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • laurentianlaurentian Posts: 2,037
    ddraver said:

    Well...you've been scammed haven't you.

    Try reporting it to Amazon directly maybe but I have a feeling it will only be to build enough of a case against them to get them kicked off the site. Although I suspect you'll find that happens anyway...

    Like MF says, try and get some money back through the card company.

    Good luck

    I have actually bought two pairs of Ray Bans via the same retailer on Amazon in the past (the pair I lost and an identical pair I bought for my wife for Xmas) - I'm not sure that it's the seller per se who has wittingly ripped me off . . . possibly someone in their warehouse or supply chain (assuming what they are telling me is true)
    Wilier Izoard XP
  • laurentianlaurentian Posts: 2,037
    MattFalle said:

    Did you pay on your credit card?

    If so they can help.

    Also Citizen's Advice re consumer protection act

    Paid on debit card - I don't know if this is different to a credit card in this respect?
    Wilier Izoard XP
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 16,044

    MattFalle said:

    Did you pay on your credit card?

    If so they can help.

    Also Citizen's Advice re consumer protection act

    Paid on debit card - I don't know if this is different to a credit card in this respect?
    yes it is
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 19,480
    edited 21 June

    MattFalle said:

    Did you pay on your credit card?

    If so they can help.

    Also Citizen's Advice re consumer protection act

    Paid on debit card - I don't know if this is different to a credit card in this respect?
    Same thing if it is a Visa or Mastercard debit card via the chargeback scheme.

    https://www.money.co.uk/current-accounts/is-debit-card-protection-the-same-as-for-credit-cards
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 9,733

    MattFalle said:

    Did you pay on your credit card?

    If so they can help.

    Also Citizen's Advice re consumer protection act

    Paid on debit card - I don't know if this is different to a credit card in this respect?
    yes it is
    But still worth a call to the bank tbh - nothing lost if they say, everything to gain if they say yes.

    UK based retailer?
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 16,453
    Have you tried hassling Amazon a lot? They will know that you are not a fraudster, so might be more helpful.
  • laurentianlaurentian Posts: 2,037
    I've just raised a dispute using the Barclays app - pretty easy really and t hanks for the pointer.

    Still not convinced it will get anywhere and suspect the seller will be adamant that I've tried to scam them . . .
    Wilier Izoard XP
  • laurentianlaurentian Posts: 2,037

    Have you tried hassling Amazon a lot? They will know that you are not a fraudster, so might be more helpful.

    I can't seem to find a route to hassle them . . . it always seems to go back to the returns and refunds page to do what I've already done.

    I have replied to the seller's email via the amazon website
    Wilier Izoard XP
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 16,453

    Have you tried hassling Amazon a lot? They will know that you are not a fraudster, so might be more helpful.

    I can't seem to find a route to hassle them . . . it always seems to go back to the returns and refunds page to do what I've already done.

    I have replied to the seller's email via the amazon website
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?ref_=hp_left_v4_sib&nodeId=GQ37ZCNECJKTFYQV
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 9,373
    This is a pretty clear breach of distance selling regulations.

    Go direct to Amazon, via their complaints procedure. I think you need to formally raise it with the vendor first. They may cave, they may not. But you'll get a refund eventually I think.

    You would be in a better position if you'd taken photos as soon as you'd found out, but I don't think this will be decisive. If you open a formal case, the vendor is going to have the burden of proof. As an Amazon vendor, their previous returns of the same item will be recorded. I think they will struggle.

    Besides, my impression is Amazon don't put up a fight with things like this - rouge vendors damage their reputation and a refund is peanuts to them. The vendor will soon find out how unimportant they are to Amazon.
  • laurentianlaurentian Posts: 2,037

    Have you tried hassling Amazon a lot? They will know that you are not a fraudster, so might be more helpful.

    I can't seem to find a route to hassle them . . . it always seems to go back to the returns and refunds page to do what I've already done.

    I have replied to the seller's email via the amazon website
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?ref_=hp_left_v4_sib&nodeId=GQ37ZCNECJKTFYQV
    Thanks - I have submitted a "claim" through this link
    Wilier Izoard XP
  • laurentianlaurentian Posts: 2,037

    This is a pretty clear breach of distance selling regulations.

    Go direct to Amazon, via their complaints procedure. I think you need to formally raise it with the vendor first. They may cave, they may not. But you'll get a refund eventually I think.

    You would be in a better position if you'd taken photos as soon as you'd found out, but I don't think this will be decisive. If you open a formal case, the vendor is going to have the burden of proof. As an Amazon vendor, their previous returns of the same item will be recorded. I think they will struggle.

    Besides, my impression is Amazon don't put up a fight with things like this - rouge vendors damage their reputation and a refund is peanuts to them. The vendor will soon find out how unimportant they are to Amazon.

    This is reassuring - as mentioned above, I have sent a "claim" through the link that TBB posted above and have also initiated action through my bank.

    I received the formal response from the seller yesterday and replied to that too.

    Apart from being out of pocket to the tune of c.£100, I'm basically p!ssed off that the seller seems to think I'm trying to defraud them
    Wilier Izoard XP
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 9,373

    This is a pretty clear breach of distance selling regulations.

    Go direct to Amazon, via their complaints procedure. I think you need to formally raise it with the vendor first. They may cave, they may not. But you'll get a refund eventually I think.

    You would be in a better position if you'd taken photos as soon as you'd found out, but I don't think this will be decisive. If you open a formal case, the vendor is going to have the burden of proof. As an Amazon vendor, their previous returns of the same item will be recorded. I think they will struggle.

    Besides, my impression is Amazon don't put up a fight with things like this - rouge vendors damage their reputation and a refund is peanuts to them. The vendor will soon find out how unimportant they are to Amazon.

    This is reassuring - as mentioned above, I have sent a "claim" through the link that TBB posted above and have also initiated action through my bank.

    I received the formal response from the seller yesterday and replied to that too.

    Apart from being out of pocket to the tune of c.£100, I'm basically p!ssed off that the seller seems to think I'm trying to defraud them
    Bear in mind the trader has likely done that to you, not the other way around.
  • laurentianlaurentian Posts: 2,037
    edited 21 June

    This is a pretty clear breach of distance selling regulations.

    Go direct to Amazon, via their complaints procedure. I think you need to formally raise it with the vendor first. They may cave, they may not. But you'll get a refund eventually I think.

    You would be in a better position if you'd taken photos as soon as you'd found out, but I don't think this will be decisive. If you open a formal case, the vendor is going to have the burden of proof. As an Amazon vendor, their previous returns of the same item will be recorded. I think they will struggle.

    Besides, my impression is Amazon don't put up a fight with things like this - rouge vendors damage their reputation and a refund is peanuts to them. The vendor will soon find out how unimportant they are to Amazon.

    This is reassuring - as mentioned above, I have sent a "claim" through the link that TBB posted above and have also initiated action through my bank.

    I received the formal response from the seller yesterday and replied to that too.

    Apart from being out of pocket to the tune of c.£100, I'm basically p!ssed off that the seller seems to think I'm trying to defraud them
    Bear in mind the trader has likely done that to you, not the other way around.
    To be honest, I suspect that the "switch" to the damaged goods probably happened somewhere in their warehouse or supply chain. I have bought two pairs of Ray Bans from the same seller in the past with no problems. I was speaking to a chap about this last night who had ordered a new mobile phone though Amazon who opened the package to find two rolls of packing tape and no phone! - really appreciate the advice.

    Thanks
    Wilier Izoard XP
  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 9,733
    Pop a link up to the seller dude so we can have a look.
  • laurentianlaurentian Posts: 2,037
    MattFalle said:

    Pop a link up to the seller dude so we can have a look.

    It is a UK based retailer. I guess it's only fair I should give the above actions time to work before "naming and shaming" - they may come back with an apology and refund in the next couple of days . . .
    Wilier Izoard XP
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 16,044

    This is a pretty clear breach of distance selling regulations.

    Go direct to Amazon, via their complaints procedure. I think you need to formally raise it with the vendor first. They may cave, they may not. But you'll get a refund eventually I think.

    You would be in a better position if you'd taken photos as soon as you'd found out, but I don't think this will be decisive. If you open a formal case, the vendor is going to have the burden of proof. As an Amazon vendor, their previous returns of the same item will be recorded. I think they will struggle.

    Besides, my impression is Amazon don't put up a fight with things like this - rouge vendors damage their reputation and a refund is peanuts to them. The vendor will soon find out how unimportant they are to Amazon.

    This is reassuring - as mentioned above, I have sent a "claim" through the link that TBB posted above and have also initiated action through my bank.

    I received the formal response from the seller yesterday and replied to that too.

    Apart from being out of pocket to the tune of c.£100, I'm basically p!ssed off that the seller seems to think I'm trying to defraud them
    They probably cross reference returns against past purchases so think you broke the previous pair then sent them back.

    It is a shame they are at the bottom of the ocean or you could have shown you still had the originals.

    I saw a presentation by a top Amazon exec and they operate on the assumption that everybody is innocent (and refund accordingly) but if a manufacturer/reseller/punter triggers the AI the they just cut them off.
  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 9,733
    Be sure to keep us updated so anyone else thinking of using them is aware 👍👍👍
  • laurentianlaurentian Posts: 2,037

    This is a pretty clear breach of distance selling regulations.

    Go direct to Amazon, via their complaints procedure. I think you need to formally raise it with the vendor first. They may cave, they may not. But you'll get a refund eventually I think.

    You would be in a better position if you'd taken photos as soon as you'd found out, but I don't think this will be decisive. If you open a formal case, the vendor is going to have the burden of proof. As an Amazon vendor, their previous returns of the same item will be recorded. I think they will struggle.

    Besides, my impression is Amazon don't put up a fight with things like this - rouge vendors damage their reputation and a refund is peanuts to them. The vendor will soon find out how unimportant they are to Amazon.

    This is reassuring - as mentioned above, I have sent a "claim" through the link that TBB posted above and have also initiated action through my bank.

    I received the formal response from the seller yesterday and replied to that too.

    Apart from being out of pocket to the tune of c.£100, I'm basically p!ssed off that the seller seems to think I'm trying to defraud them
    They probably cross reference returns against past purchases so think you broke the previous pair then sent them back.

    It is a shame they are at the bottom of the ocean or you could have shown you still had the originals.

    I saw a presentation by a top Amazon exec and they operate on the assumption that everybody is innocent (and refund accordingly) but if a manufacturer/reseller/punter triggers the AI the they just cut them off.
    Thing is, I've bought two identical pairs from them! The ones I lost and then, as the Mrs kept nicking mine on holiday, an identical pair that I bought her for Christmas. I would understand if that's what they thought though.

    They are actually somewhere at the bottom of the Thames, near the bank in Windsor if anyone fancies dredging the bottom (my mates phone is also in the same place) . . . long story.
    Wilier Izoard XP
  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 9,733
    Do you want me to send a MF over to burn their shop down to learn them a lesson?
  • laurentianlaurentian Posts: 2,037
    MattFalle said:

    Do you want me to send a MF over to burn their shop down to learn them a lesson?

    I think that may be a little extreme at the moment but I'll let you know how things go.

    Thanks for the offer
    Wilier Izoard XP
  • Ben6899Ben6899 Posts: 9,570
    MattFalle said:

    Do you want me to send a MF over to burn their shop down to learn them a lesson?


    I'll bring the trebuchet.
    Ben

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  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 9,733

    MattFalle said:

    Do you want me to send a MF over to burn their shop down to learn them a lesson?

    I think that may be a little extreme at the moment but I'll let you know how things go.

    Thanks for the offer
    No worries - pleasure to help anytime.

    If he's up/down there I can always ask him to burn the shopkeeper's house down as well.
  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 9,733
    Ben6899 said:

    MattFalle said:

    Do you want me to send a MF over to burn their shop down to learn them a lesson?


    I'll bring the trebuchet.
    Nice. We can tow it behind our bicycles dressed as Legionaires (Roman, not Etranger)
  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 9,733


    Today I'd like to be an arsonist please
  • daniel_bdaniel_b Posts: 10,193
    edited 21 June
    That's really expletive, being called a liar AND currently down £100 - pretty poor.

    I don't have anything to add to the excellent advice you have been given above, but I'd be keen to know if you obtain a favourable outcome, and from whom, and irrespective of the outcome, personally if I was in that situation, I would still name the company, unless they back pedalled, grovelled and gave me a proper apology and refund.

    This could happen to any of us of course, potentially with far more costly items.

    I do always tend to buy through credit card on paypal for that extra layer of protection, just out of habit really, probably only had cause to use it twice in that time, both for items that were paid for, but never arrived, and the retailer was completely unresponsive.
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  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 9,733
    daniel_b said:

    That's really censored , being called a liar AND currently down £100 - pretty poor.

    I don't have anything to add to the excellent advice you have been given above, but I'd be keen to know if you obtain a favourable outcome, and from whom, and irrespective of the outcome, personally if I was in that situation, I would still name the company, unless they back pedalled, grovelled and gave me a proper apology and refund.

    This could happen to any of us of course, potentially with far more costly items.

    I do always tend to buy through credit card on paypal for that extra layer of protection, just out of habit really, probably only had cause to use it twice in that time, both for items that were paid for, but never arrived, and the retailer was completely unresponsive.

    See - arson. excellent advice.

    Told ya, didn't we?
  • me-109me-109 Posts: 1,584
    Does the damage to the glasses equate to the damage on the box? How was the Amazon packet shipped - box or courier packet? The latter may be inadequate and the former would have damage if it occurred in transit to you. I always take pictures of damaged packets prior to opening.
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