Online Refund Help (not cycling related!)

laurentian

A week or so ago I was on a boat trip when my Ray Bans were knocked off my face and into the water.

On the way back from the trip, I ordered a replacement pair on Amazon (using the Amazon App).

The new pair were delivered within a couple of days.

I opened the cardboard outer box and, on picking up the Ray Ban box, noticed that the corner was dented in a little. This didn't overly concern me and so I opened the box to reveal the Ray Ban glasses case and then opened the case.

On opening the case, I noticed that there was not a cleaning cloth in there (no real problem as I already had one that came with my lost pair), however when picking up the sunglasses, it was evident that one of the arms had been broken off. I immediately put the glasses back in the case, the case back in the Ray Ban Box, the Ray Ban box back in the cardboard outer and initiated the returns procedure.

The return was through a post office and so they were posted a couple of days later than when I received the goods as there is no post office in the village where I live.

So, yesterday I received a message from the retail seller via Amazon saying that they would not refund or replace the goods as the item returned was not the brand new item they dispatched.

They said that the arm had been broken off by force, that the glasses had been "worn for a significant time", that there was sand on them and that the lack of a cleaning cloth or Ray Ban leaflet in the box proved that they were not the brand new glasses that they dispatched and that they would not be refunding or replacing.

Here are the facts from my point of view:

*They had not been worn at all (due to broken arm on them!)
*They were replaced into the case/box within seconds of me seeing the broken arm and returned a couple of days later
*There was no cleaning cloth in the case
*The product I returned was exactly what I had received.

I replied to their "we're not refunding" email basically telling them the above.

If what they are saying about sand/evidence or wear etc is true then I understand why they would not replace them but there is no "foul play" on my part and so I can only assume that the glasses had been "switched" either in their warehouse or somewhere in the delivery chain.

They are basically saying that I am trying to defraud them!

They have refunded me £4.85 postage.

Anyone have any ideas how to get my money back or how to take this forward?

MattFalle

Did you pay on your credit card?

If so they can help.

Also Citizen's Advice re consumer protection act

ddraver

Well...you've been scammed haven't you.

Try reporting it to Amazon directly maybe but I have a feeling it will only be to build enough of a case against them to get them kicked off the site. Although I suspect you'll find that happens anyway...

Like MF says, try and get some money back through the card company.

Good luck

laurentian

ddraver said:

Well...you've been scammed haven't you.

Try reporting it to Amazon directly maybe but I have a feeling it will only be to build enough of a case against them to get them kicked off the site. Although I suspect you'll find that happens anyway...

Like MF says, try and get some money back through the card company.

Good luck

I have actually bought two pairs of Ray Bans via the same retailer on Amazon in the past (the pair I lost and an identical pair I bought for my wife for Xmas) - I'm not sure that it's the seller per se who has wittingly ripped me off . . . possibly someone in their warehouse or supply chain (assuming what they are telling me is true)

laurentian

MattFalle said:

Did you pay on your credit card?

If so they can help.

Also Citizen's Advice re consumer protection act

Paid on debit card - I don't know if this is different to a credit card in this respect?

surrey_commuter

laurentian said:

MattFalle said:

Did you pay on your credit card?

If so they can help.

Also Citizen's Advice re consumer protection act

Paid on debit card - I don't know if this is different to a credit card in this respect?

yes it is

pblakeney

laurentian said:

MattFalle said:

Did you pay on your credit card?

If so they can help.

Also Citizen's Advice re consumer protection act

Paid on debit card - I don't know if this is different to a credit card in this respect?

Same thing if it is a Visa or Mastercard debit card via the chargeback scheme.

https://www.money.co.uk/current-accounts/is-debit-card-protection-the-same-as-for-credit-cards

MattFalle

surrey_commuter said:

laurentian said:

MattFalle said:

Did you pay on your credit card?

If so they can help.

Also Citizen's Advice re consumer protection act

Paid on debit card - I don't know if this is different to a credit card in this respect?

yes it is

But still worth a call to the bank tbh - nothing lost if they say, everything to gain if they say yes.

UK based retailer?

TheBigBean

Have you tried hassling Amazon a lot? They will know that you are not a fraudster, so might be more helpful.

laurentian

I've just raised a dispute using the Barclays app - pretty easy really and t hanks for the pointer.

Still not convinced it will get anywhere and suspect the seller will be adamant that I've tried to scam them . . .

laurentian

TheBigBean said:

Have you tried hassling Amazon a lot? They will know that you are not a fraudster, so might be more helpful.

I can't seem to find a route to hassle them . . . it always seems to go back to the returns and refunds page to do what I've already done.

I have replied to the seller's email via the amazon website

TheBigBean

laurentian said:

TheBigBean said:

Have you tried hassling Amazon a lot? They will know that you are not a fraudster, so might be more helpful.

I can't seem to find a route to hassle them . . . it always seems to go back to the returns and refunds page to do what I've already done.

I have replied to the seller's email via the amazon website

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?ref_=hp_left_v4_sib&nodeId=GQ37ZCNECJKTFYQV

First.Aspect

This is a pretty clear breach of distance selling regulations.

Go direct to Amazon, via their complaints procedure. I think you need to formally raise it with the vendor first. They may cave, they may not. But you'll get a refund eventually I think.

You would be in a better position if you'd taken photos as soon as you'd found out, but I don't think this will be decisive. If you open a formal case, the vendor is going to have the burden of proof. As an Amazon vendor, their previous returns of the same item will be recorded. I think they will struggle.

Besides, my impression is Amazon don't put up a fight with things like this - rouge vendors damage their reputation and a refund is peanuts to them. The vendor will soon find out how unimportant they are to Amazon.

laurentian

TheBigBean said:

laurentian said:

TheBigBean said:

Have you tried hassling Amazon a lot? They will know that you are not a fraudster, so might be more helpful.

I can't seem to find a route to hassle them . . . it always seems to go back to the returns and refunds page to do what I've already done.

I have replied to the seller's email via the amazon website

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?ref_=hp_left_v4_sib&nodeId=GQ37ZCNECJKTFYQV

Thanks - I have submitted a "claim" through this link

laurentian

First.Aspect said:

This is a pretty clear breach of distance selling regulations.

Go direct to Amazon, via their complaints procedure. I think you need to formally raise it with the vendor first. They may cave, they may not. But you'll get a refund eventually I think.

You would be in a better position if you'd taken photos as soon as you'd found out, but I don't think this will be decisive. If you open a formal case, the vendor is going to have the burden of proof. As an Amazon vendor, their previous returns of the same item will be recorded. I think they will struggle.

Besides, my impression is Amazon don't put up a fight with things like this - rouge vendors damage their reputation and a refund is peanuts to them. The vendor will soon find out how unimportant they are to Amazon.

This is reassuring - as mentioned above, I have sent a "claim" through the link that TBB posted above and have also initiated action through my bank.

I received the formal response from the seller yesterday and replied to that too.

Apart from being out of pocket to the tune of c.£100, I'm basically p!ssed off that the seller seems to think I'm trying to defraud them

First.Aspect

laurentian said:

First.Aspect said:

This is a pretty clear breach of distance selling regulations.

Go direct to Amazon, via their complaints procedure. I think you need to formally raise it with the vendor first. They may cave, they may not. But you'll get a refund eventually I think.

You would be in a better position if you'd taken photos as soon as you'd found out, but I don't think this will be decisive. If you open a formal case, the vendor is going to have the burden of proof. As an Amazon vendor, their previous returns of the same item will be recorded. I think they will struggle.

Besides, my impression is Amazon don't put up a fight with things like this - rouge vendors damage their reputation and a refund is peanuts to them. The vendor will soon find out how unimportant they are to Amazon.

This is reassuring - as mentioned above, I have sent a "claim" through the link that TBB posted above and have also initiated action through my bank.

I received the formal response from the seller yesterday and replied to that too.

Apart from being out of pocket to the tune of c.£100, I'm basically p!ssed off that the seller seems to think I'm trying to defraud them

Bear in mind the trader has likely done that to you, not the other way around.

laurentian

First.Aspect said:

laurentian said:

First.Aspect said:

This is a pretty clear breach of distance selling regulations.

Go direct to Amazon, via their complaints procedure. I think you need to formally raise it with the vendor first. They may cave, they may not. But you'll get a refund eventually I think.

You would be in a better position if you'd taken photos as soon as you'd found out, but I don't think this will be decisive. If you open a formal case, the vendor is going to have the burden of proof. As an Amazon vendor, their previous returns of the same item will be recorded. I think they will struggle.

Besides, my impression is Amazon don't put up a fight with things like this - rouge vendors damage their reputation and a refund is peanuts to them. The vendor will soon find out how unimportant they are to Amazon.

This is reassuring - as mentioned above, I have sent a "claim" through the link that TBB posted above and have also initiated action through my bank.

I received the formal response from the seller yesterday and replied to that too.

Apart from being out of pocket to the tune of c.£100, I'm basically p!ssed off that the seller seems to think I'm trying to defraud them

Bear in mind the trader has likely done that to you, not the other way around.

To be honest, I suspect that the "switch" to the damaged goods probably happened somewhere in their warehouse or supply chain. I have bought two pairs of Ray Bans from the same seller in the past with no problems. I was speaking to a chap about this last night who had ordered a new mobile phone though Amazon who opened the package to find two rolls of packing tape and no phone! - really appreciate the advice.

Thanks

MattFalle

Pop a link up to the seller dude so we can have a look.

laurentian

MattFalle said:

Pop a link up to the seller dude so we can have a look.

It is a UK based retailer. I guess it's only fair I should give the above actions time to work before "naming and shaming" - they may come back with an apology and refund in the next couple of days . . .

surrey_commuter

laurentian said:

First.Aspect said:

This is a pretty clear breach of distance selling regulations.

Go direct to Amazon, via their complaints procedure. I think you need to formally raise it with the vendor first. They may cave, they may not. But you'll get a refund eventually I think.

You would be in a better position if you'd taken photos as soon as you'd found out, but I don't think this will be decisive. If you open a formal case, the vendor is going to have the burden of proof. As an Amazon vendor, their previous returns of the same item will be recorded. I think they will struggle.

Besides, my impression is Amazon don't put up a fight with things like this - rouge vendors damage their reputation and a refund is peanuts to them. The vendor will soon find out how unimportant they are to Amazon.

This is reassuring - as mentioned above, I have sent a "claim" through the link that TBB posted above and have also initiated action through my bank.

I received the formal response from the seller yesterday and replied to that too.

Apart from being out of pocket to the tune of c.£100, I'm basically p!ssed off that the seller seems to think I'm trying to defraud them

They probably cross reference returns against past purchases so think you broke the previous pair then sent them back.

It is a shame they are at the bottom of the ocean or you could have shown you still had the originals.

I saw a presentation by a top Amazon exec and they operate on the assumption that everybody is innocent (and refund accordingly) but if a manufacturer/reseller/punter triggers the AI the they just cut them off.

MattFalle

Be sure to keep us updated so anyone else thinking of using them is aware 👍👍👍

laurentian

surrey_commuter said:

laurentian said:

First.Aspect said:

This is a pretty clear breach of distance selling regulations.

Go direct to Amazon, via their complaints procedure. I think you need to formally raise it with the vendor first. They may cave, they may not. But you'll get a refund eventually I think.

You would be in a better position if you'd taken photos as soon as you'd found out, but I don't think this will be decisive. If you open a formal case, the vendor is going to have the burden of proof. As an Amazon vendor, their previous returns of the same item will be recorded. I think they will struggle.

Besides, my impression is Amazon don't put up a fight with things like this - rouge vendors damage their reputation and a refund is peanuts to them. The vendor will soon find out how unimportant they are to Amazon.

This is reassuring - as mentioned above, I have sent a "claim" through the link that TBB posted above and have also initiated action through my bank.

I received the formal response from the seller yesterday and replied to that too.

Apart from being out of pocket to the tune of c.£100, I'm basically p!ssed off that the seller seems to think I'm trying to defraud them

They probably cross reference returns against past purchases so think you broke the previous pair then sent them back.

It is a shame they are at the bottom of the ocean or you could have shown you still had the originals.

I saw a presentation by a top Amazon exec and they operate on the assumption that everybody is innocent (and refund accordingly) but if a manufacturer/reseller/punter triggers the AI the they just cut them off.

Thing is, I've bought two identical pairs from them! The ones I lost and then, as the Mrs kept nicking mine on holiday, an identical pair that I bought her for Christmas. I would understand if that's what they thought though.

They are actually somewhere at the bottom of the Thames, near the bank in Windsor if anyone fancies dredging the bottom (my mates phone is also in the same place) . . . long story.

MattFalle

Do you want me to send a MF over to burn their shop down to learn them a lesson?

laurentian

MattFalle said:

Do you want me to send a MF over to burn their shop down to learn them a lesson?

I think that may be a little extreme at the moment but I'll let you know how things go.

Thanks for the offer

Ben6899

MattFalle said:

Do you want me to send a MF over to burn their shop down to learn them a lesson?

I'll bring the trebuchet.

MattFalle

laurentian said:

MattFalle said:

Do you want me to send a MF over to burn their shop down to learn them a lesson?

I think that may be a little extreme at the moment but I'll let you know how things go.

Thanks for the offer

No worries - pleasure to help anytime.

If he's up/down there I can always ask him to burn the shopkeeper's house down as well.

MattFalle

Ben6899 said:

MattFalle said:

Do you want me to send a MF over to burn their shop down to learn them a lesson?

I'll bring the trebuchet.

Nice. We can tow it behind our bicycles dressed as Legionaires (Roman, not Etranger)

MattFalle

Today I'd like to be an arsonist please

daniel_b

That's really expletive, being called a liar AND currently down £100 - pretty poor.

I don't have anything to add to the excellent advice you have been given above, but I'd be keen to know if you obtain a favourable outcome, and from whom, and irrespective of the outcome, personally if I was in that situation, I would still name the company, unless they back pedalled, grovelled and gave me a proper apology and refund.

This could happen to any of us of course, potentially with far more costly items.

I do always tend to buy through credit card on paypal for that extra layer of protection, just out of habit really, probably only had cause to use it twice in that time, both for items that were paid for, but never arrived, and the retailer was completely unresponsive.

MattFalle

daniel_b said:

That's really censored , being called a liar AND currently down £100 - pretty poor.

I don't have anything to add to the excellent advice you have been given above, but I'd be keen to know if you obtain a favourable outcome, and from whom, and irrespective of the outcome, personally if I was in that situation, I would still name the company, unless they back pedalled, grovelled and gave me a proper apology and refund.

This could happen to any of us of course, potentially with far more costly items.

I do always tend to buy through credit card on paypal for that extra layer of protection, just out of habit really, probably only had cause to use it twice in that time, both for items that were paid for, but never arrived, and the retailer was completely unresponsive.

See - arson. excellent advice.

Told ya, didn't we?

me-109

Does the damage to the glasses equate to the damage on the box? How was the Amazon packet shipped - box or courier packet? The latter may be inadequate and the former would have damage if it occurred in transit to you. I always take pictures of damaged packets prior to opening.