Paris - Nice 2022 **Spoilers**

bm5

True.

m.r.m.

gweeds said:

What's going on with WvA then - is this from his crash? I'm assuming he's not taking any chances coming into the classics.

Think the plan was from the beginning to take it easy and not empty himself to save form for the classics. Last year he also went too deep spurned on by MvdP's stage win and suicide attack in Tirreno Adriatico while also fighting for the sprint jersey (not entirely sure about the jersey, but I think he was trying for it).
The knock he got on the knee probably now makes him pull the plug even earlier on the super hard MTF stages.

phreak

m.r.m. said:

gweeds said:

What's going on with WvA then - is this from his crash? I'm assuming he's not taking any chances coming into the classics.

Think the plan was from the beginning to take it easy and not empty himself to save form for the classics. Last year he also went too deep spurned on by MvdP's stage win and suicide attack in Tirreno Adriatico while also fighting for the sprint jersey (not entirely sure about the jersey, but I think he was trying for it).
The knock he got on the knee probably now makes him pull the plug even earlier on the super hard MTF stages.

MvdP's attack justly grabbed the headlines, not least because he won the stage, but Pogacar put 2 minutes into Bernal and the rest of the GC contenders that day, which given he won the previous day's stage as well typified the kind of dominance we're now seeing as standard.

gsk82

phreak said:

m.r.m. said:

gweeds said:

What's going on with WvA then - is this from his crash? I'm assuming he's not taking any chances coming into the classics.

Think the plan was from the beginning to take it easy and not empty himself to save form for the classics. Last year he also went too deep spurned on by MvdP's stage win and suicide attack in Tirreno Adriatico while also fighting for the sprint jersey (not entirely sure about the jersey, but I think he was trying for it).
The knock he got on the knee probably now makes him pull the plug even earlier on the super hard MTF stages.

MvdP's attack justly grabbed the headlines, not least because he won the stage, but Pogacar put 2 minutes into Bernal and the rest of the GC contenders that day, which given he won the previous day's stage as well typified the kind of dominance we're now seeing as standard.

Is there anyone not at either of the races this week who can fill some of the chasm between the Slovenians and the rest?

takethehighroad

gsk82 said:

phreak said:

m.r.m. said:

gweeds said:

What's going on with WvA then - is this from his crash? I'm assuming he's not taking any chances coming into the classics.

Think the plan was from the beginning to take it easy and not empty himself to save form for the classics. Last year he also went too deep spurned on by MvdP's stage win and suicide attack in Tirreno Adriatico while also fighting for the sprint jersey (not entirely sure about the jersey, but I think he was trying for it).
The knock he got on the knee probably now makes him pull the plug even earlier on the super hard MTF stages.

MvdP's attack justly grabbed the headlines, not least because he won the stage, but Pogacar put 2 minutes into Bernal and the rest of the GC contenders that day, which given he won the previous day's stage as well typified the kind of dominance we're now seeing as standard.

Is there anyone not at either of the races this week who can fill some of the chasm between the Slovenians and the rest?

There is, but he's currently regrowing his spine over in Colombia

phreak

gsk82 said:

phreak said:

m.r.m. said:

gweeds said:

What's going on with WvA then - is this from his crash? I'm assuming he's not taking any chances coming into the classics.

Think the plan was from the beginning to take it easy and not empty himself to save form for the classics. Last year he also went too deep spurned on by MvdP's stage win and suicide attack in Tirreno Adriatico while also fighting for the sprint jersey (not entirely sure about the jersey, but I think he was trying for it).
The knock he got on the knee probably now makes him pull the plug even earlier on the super hard MTF stages.

MvdP's attack justly grabbed the headlines, not least because he won the stage, but Pogacar put 2 minutes into Bernal and the rest of the GC contenders that day, which given he won the previous day's stage as well typified the kind of dominance we're now seeing as standard.

Is there anyone not at either of the races this week who can fill some of the chasm between the Slovenians and the rest?

Not for me. I can't think of a stage race where Bernal has beaten either of them since Bernal won the Tour. For instance, if you look at Bernal and Pogacar's head to head, it's pretty strongly in favor of Pogacar.

https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider-vs-rider/egan-bernal/tadej-pogacar/same-race-results

With Roglic it's even more in favour of the Slovenian

https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider-vs-rider/egan-bernal/primoz-roglic/same-race-results

So I'm not sure Bernal is really on their level. I'd say he's probably quite comfortably the 3rd best stage race rider in the world, but not on their level.

pblakeney

phreak said:

So I'm not sure Bernal is really on their level. I'd say he's probably quite comfortably the 3rd best stage race rider in the world, but not on their level.

That'll be filling the chasm without making it to the other side. 😉

phreak

pblakeney said:

phreak said:

So I'm not sure Bernal is really on their level. I'd say he's probably quite comfortably the 3rd best stage race rider in the world, but not on their level.

That'll be filling the chasm without making it to the other side. 😉

Touche.

drhaggis

gsk82 said:

phreak said:

m.r.m. said:

gweeds said:

What's going on with WvA then - is this from his crash? I'm assuming he's not taking any chances coming into the classics.

Think the plan was from the beginning to take it easy and not empty himself to save form for the classics. Last year he also went too deep spurned on by MvdP's stage win and suicide attack in Tirreno Adriatico while also fighting for the sprint jersey (not entirely sure about the jersey, but I think he was trying for it).
The knock he got on the knee probably now makes him pull the plug even earlier on the super hard MTF stages.

MvdP's attack justly grabbed the headlines, not least because he won the stage, but Pogacar put 2 minutes into Bernal and the rest of the GC contenders that day, which given he won the previous day's stage as well typified the kind of dominance we're now seeing as standard.

Is there anyone not at either of the races this week who can fill some of the chasm between the Slovenians and the rest?

I would like to think an in-form Carapaz would at least make them put a good effort. May be wishful thinking. I can't see Evenepoel being a rival in a GT, but 1-week races other than Dauphine could be in the table (yet he lost 4 minutes yesterday in Tirreno).

I like to look at it differently, though. Both slovenians are amazing competitors, in different teams, and happy to go blow for blow no matter where.

phreak

https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider-vs-rider/tadej-pogacar/primoz-roglic/same-race-results

What is perhaps interesting is that, while they don't race each other often, when they do, neither of them practically ever finish outside the top 10.

takethehighroad

Another interesting stat that today is the first time Paris Nice has finished in Nice for 3 years

m.r.m.

I agree with phreak. Bernal is not at Roglic' or Pogacar's level. He is only slightly worse at climbing, but they are much better at ITT's. He will always lose time in time trials which will perennially put him on the back foot.
Carapaz is no where close to them. I consider Bernal better than Carapaz at GT's and Carapaz will massively ship time to them in ITT's of any reasonable length.

There is no one else who can even climb with them outside of maybe Quintana, Bernal, Carapaz on their very best days. There is absolutely no one who can do that and time trial with them.

RichN95.

m.r.m. said:

Carapaz is no where close to them. I consider Bernal better than Carapaz at GT's and Carapaz will massively ship time to them in ITT's of any reasonable length.

There is no one else who can even climb with them outside of maybe Quintana, Bernal, Carapaz on their very best days. There is absolutely no one who can do that and time trial with them.

Carapaz nearly beat Roglic at the 2020 Vuelta - Roglic needed the time bonuses to win. At high altitude Lopez outclimbed them both at the 2020 Tour.

gsk82

RichN95. said:

m.r.m. said:

Carapaz is no where close to them. I consider Bernal better than Carapaz at GT's and Carapaz will massively ship time to them in ITT's of any reasonable length.

There is no one else who can even climb with them outside of maybe Quintana, Bernal, Carapaz on their very best days. There is absolutely no one who can do that and time trial with them.

Carapaz nearly beat Roglic at the 2020 Vuelta - Roglic needed the time bonuses to win. At high altitude Lopez outclimbed them both at the 2020 Tour.

Roglic was wrecked from the tour during that vuelta. The only way I can see Bernal challenging is if there's lots a days at high altitude and little time trialling, like in 2018

phreak

RichN95. said:

m.r.m. said:

Carapaz is no where close to them. I consider Bernal better than Carapaz at GT's and Carapaz will massively ship time to them in ITT's of any reasonable length.

There is no one else who can even climb with them outside of maybe Quintana, Bernal, Carapaz on their very best days. There is absolutely no one who can do that and time trial with them.

Carapaz nearly beat Roglic at the 2020 Vuelta - Roglic needed the time bonuses to win. At high altitude Lopez outclimbed them both at the 2020 Tour.

You do feel both have gone up a level since then though, especially Pogacar, who seems unbeatable whenever he puts his mind to it.

blazing_saddles

An exciting development. The Jumbo train has been replaced by the Ineos train.

Not a single rider has managed to get up the road.
Hardly anyone left but Roglic still has WVA.

Not your usual, seat of the pants final stage one now expects in this race.

blazing_saddles

LOL. WVA channels his inner Pogacar.
Only Martinez, Quintana and S Yates can follow on the penultimate climb.

blazing_saddles

Poglic blowing up on yet another final stage.
Yates has 22” lead up Eze

blazing_saddles

WVA dropping Roglic

kingstongraham

Good rider that wout. Dragging rog to the finish.

blazing_saddles

kingstongraham said:

Good rider that wout. Dragging rog to the finish.

Were it not for a resurgent WVA, this Paris-Nice would have gone the same way as last year.

mrb123

Seems a bit wasteful chucking those jackets away 3km from the finish with no chance of a stage win.

blazing_saddles

Well, that new ramp in the middle of Col d'Eze certainly shook things up.
Would have been fairly pedestrian and a Wout win without it.

seanoconn

mrb123 said:

Seems a bit wasteful chucking those jackets away 3km from the finish with no chance of a stage win.

I was thinking how one would best position oneself on a stage to grab a free jacket.

daniel_b

What happened to Martinez?

He was the front group at the top of the penultimate climb, I popped out to return some items to CRC, come back and he's a way off.

Did he fade, have a mechanical, assuming they didn't pull him back to help Adam Yates?

Great stage win for Simon Yates.

kingstongraham

daniel_b said:

What happened to Martinez?

He was the front group at the top of the penultimate climb, I popped out to return some items to CRC, come back and he's a way off.

Did he fade, have a mechanical, assuming they didn't pull him back to help Adam Yates?

Great stage win for Simon Yates.

Mechanical. Needed a new back wheel from neutral service.

daniel_b

kingstongraham said:

daniel_b said:

What happened to Martinez?

He was the front group at the top of the penultimate climb, I popped out to return some items to CRC, come back and he's a way off.

Did he fade, have a mechanical, assuming they didn't pull him back to help Adam Yates?

Great stage win for Simon Yates.

Mechanical. Needed a new back wheel from neutral service.

Oh what a shame.

In the event he could have gotten away with Yates, things could have been a bit closer for the overall.

blazing_saddles

Without the Jumbo first stage beat down, Roglic would have taken the overall win by 1 second.

ddraver

Watching the Wout interview, I wonder how many more matches he wants to burn for Primoz...

bm5

Simon was beaten by the Jumbo team unfortunately.
Hugo finished 13th
Kung must have had a great day today.