Not competing/mental health

13

Comments

  • elbowloh
    elbowloh Posts: 7,078
    edited August 2021
    you know we've had this COVID thing going on right?

    Pretty much all the public health and education leaders were going on about it having a massive mental health impact on youth, probably even more than physical health for this particular demographic.

    Its almost like its passed you by!

    The "its ok to not be ok" message certainly is getting through to businesses.

    Every major company has employee assistance programmes and access to counsellors, they all have mental health campaigns and make it a requirement for their contractors and subcontractors to have mental health policies.

    Have a look on Linkedin, there's almost as much stuff on there about mental health as there is about anything else.
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  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,230

    Chemistry...

    We currently have probably 1 in 4 student who at some point seeks help for mental health...
    Which is fine, because we have a robust system in place.
    The problem is the reliance on mitigating circumstances, deadline extensions and whatnot creates a vicious circle and once they move on from Education, they will find that the same level of support is not available until they have secure employment (and even there...). Unfortunately, there isn't a system in place to apply for mitigating circumstances at interviews, so I am not 100% sure what we do is in their interest.

    Basically we have moved to a place where "not being OK is OK" but the world outside is not there yet... hence my reluctance

    I think we all understand that snowflakes can be exasperating Ugo, and that there seem to be more of them. It is just that hidden amongst them are people with real issues, and who are we to judge?
    I'm not here to judge, the problem is that what we have created is basically the equivalent of you going to a GP for a prescription every time you're not 100% and before you know it, you are on 15 medications by the age of 50.... except they are 21 and need to compete for a job in a rather tough market.
    Suddenly they don't have the form to fill to avoid the interview that day and move it to a later date...
    I'm just wondering if what we have created is in their best interest, seeing that (I think) we are here to prepare them for a career in a particular field and not to make sure that they are mentally OK... basically, if we want to use the sport analogy, we are the coach and not the support network.

    left the forum March 2023
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,230
    elbowloh said:

    you know we've had this COVID thing going on right?

    Pretty much all the public health and education leaders were going on about it having a massive mental health impact on youth, probably even more than physical health for this particular demographic.

    Its almost like its passed you by!

    The "its ok to not be ok" message certainly is getting through to businesses.

    Every major company has employee assistance programmes and access to counsellors, they all have mental health campaigns and make it a requirement for their contractors and subcontractors to have mental health policies.

    Have a look on Linkedin, there's almost as much stuff on there about mental health as there is about anything else.

    Why do you have to bring in Covid? WHat's this got to do with Covid?

    Anyway, as I said above, you first need to get a job in said business, before you are eligible for support... and if you are not OK, you will probably struggle to get there...

    left the forum March 2023
  • joe2019
    joe2019 Posts: 1,338



    I'm not here to judge,


    Hang on... why did you start this dreadful thread then?

  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,230
    joe2019 said:



    I'm not here to judge,


    Hang on... why did you start this dreadful thread then?

    We were discussing a different matter...
    left the forum March 2023
  • elbowloh
    elbowloh Posts: 7,078

    elbowloh said:

    you know we've had this COVID thing going on right?

    Pretty much all the public health and education leaders were going on about it having a massive mental health impact on youth, probably even more than physical health for this particular demographic.

    Its almost like its passed you by!

    The "its ok to not be ok" message certainly is getting through to businesses.

    Every major company has employee assistance programmes and access to counsellors, they all have mental health campaigns and make it a requirement for their contractors and subcontractors to have mental health policies.

    Have a look on Linkedin, there's almost as much stuff on there about mental health as there is about anything else.

    Why do you have to bring in Covid? WHat's this got to do with Covid?

    Anyway, as I said above, you first need to get a job in said business, before you are eligible for support... and if you are not OK, you will probably struggle to get there...

    Because COVID has been and is still having a massive impact on young peoples mental health, more than many other age groups. It's been well publicised ffs.
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  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,230
    elbowloh said:

    elbowloh said:

    you know we've had this COVID thing going on right?

    Pretty much all the public health and education leaders were going on about it having a massive mental health impact on youth, probably even more than physical health for this particular demographic.

    Its almost like its passed you by!

    The "its ok to not be ok" message certainly is getting through to businesses.

    Every major company has employee assistance programmes and access to counsellors, they all have mental health campaigns and make it a requirement for their contractors and subcontractors to have mental health policies.

    Have a look on Linkedin, there's almost as much stuff on there about mental health as there is about anything else.

    Why do you have to bring in Covid? WHat's this got to do with Covid?

    Anyway, as I said above, you first need to get a job in said business, before you are eligible for support... and if you are not OK, you will probably struggle to get there...

    Because COVID has been and is still having a massive impact on young peoples mental health, more than many other age groups. It's been well publicised ffs.
    Yeah, but what has it got to do with Simone Biles not competing? I don't get the connection...
    left the forum March 2023
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,201

    Probably going against the grain... when everybody is saying how brave Simone Biles is to withdraw and admit her mental health problems.
    To me it seems the easy way out and of course disrespectful to other US athletes who missed out on a chance to compete at the Olympics.

    Obviously I don't know what's going on, but I would rather see an athlete compete sub par, like Dina Asher did, than seeing an athlete refusing to compete.

    Maybe it's just me, but it all sounds like poor attitude... right, now you can shred me to pieces

    What's your thoughts on Dina Asher Smith now she has pulled out of the 200m, but might do the relay? Should she do the 200m even if it risks making her injury worse?
  • elbowloh
    elbowloh Posts: 7,078

    elbowloh said:

    elbowloh said:

    you know we've had this COVID thing going on right?

    Pretty much all the public health and education leaders were going on about it having a massive mental health impact on youth, probably even more than physical health for this particular demographic.

    Its almost like its passed you by!

    The "its ok to not be ok" message certainly is getting through to businesses.

    Every major company has employee assistance programmes and access to counsellors, they all have mental health campaigns and make it a requirement for their contractors and subcontractors to have mental health policies.

    Have a look on Linkedin, there's almost as much stuff on there about mental health as there is about anything else.

    Why do you have to bring in Covid? WHat's this got to do with Covid?

    Anyway, as I said above, you first need to get a job in said business, before you are eligible for support... and if you are not OK, you will probably struggle to get there...

    Because COVID has been and is still having a massive impact on young peoples mental health, more than many other age groups. It's been well publicised ffs.
    Yeah, but what has it got to do with Simone Biles not competing? I don't get the connection...
    Because you were talking about students and their ability to get a job.

    Are you reading your own posts?
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  • joe2019
    joe2019 Posts: 1,338

    joe2019 said:



    I'm not here to judge,


    Hang on... why did you start this dreadful thread then?

    We were discussing a different matter...

    I know, still ironic that you should choose to type that.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,230

    Probably going against the grain... when everybody is saying how brave Simone Biles is to withdraw and admit her mental health problems.
    To me it seems the easy way out and of course disrespectful to other US athletes who missed out on a chance to compete at the Olympics.

    Obviously I don't know what's going on, but I would rather see an athlete compete sub par, like Dina Asher did, than seeing an athlete refusing to compete.

    Maybe it's just me, but it all sounds like poor attitude... right, now you can shred me to pieces

    What's your thoughts on Dina Asher Smith now she has pulled out of the 200m, but might do the relay? Should she do the 200m even if it risks making her injury worse?
    It's an injury, I don't know how serious it is... but it seems rather pointless to compete if you are injured and risk being out of action for the rest of the year.
    Not sure how she comes to the conclusion that she can do the relay but not the 200...
    left the forum March 2023
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,230
    elbowloh said:

    elbowloh said:

    elbowloh said:

    you know we've had this COVID thing going on right?

    Pretty much all the public health and education leaders were going on about it having a massive mental health impact on youth, probably even more than physical health for this particular demographic.

    Its almost like its passed you by!

    The "its ok to not be ok" message certainly is getting through to businesses.

    Every major company has employee assistance programmes and access to counsellors, they all have mental health campaigns and make it a requirement for their contractors and subcontractors to have mental health policies.

    Have a look on Linkedin, there's almost as much stuff on there about mental health as there is about anything else.

    Why do you have to bring in Covid? WHat's this got to do with Covid?

    Anyway, as I said above, you first need to get a job in said business, before you are eligible for support... and if you are not OK, you will probably struggle to get there...

    Because COVID has been and is still having a massive impact on young peoples mental health, more than many other age groups. It's been well publicised ffs.
    Yeah, but what has it got to do with Simone Biles not competing? I don't get the connection...
    Because you were talking about students and their ability to get a job.

    Are you reading your own posts?
    The mental health epidemic at Uni started well before Covid... I'm not even sure Covid has made it worse...
    Anecdotally, things got a lot worse since the explosion of the latest social media... Instagram, Tik Tok etc... but there might be no connection at all
    left the forum March 2023
  • joe2019
    joe2019 Posts: 1,338

    Probably going against the grain... when everybody is saying how brave Simone Biles is to withdraw and admit her mental health problems.
    To me it seems the easy way out and of course disrespectful to other US athletes who missed out on a chance to compete at the Olympics.

    Obviously I don't know what's going on, but I would rather see an athlete compete sub par, like Dina Asher did, than seeing an athlete refusing to compete.

    Maybe it's just me, but it all sounds like poor attitude... right, now you can shred me to pieces

    What's your thoughts on Dina Asher Smith now she has pulled out of the 200m, but might do the relay? Should she do the 200m even if it risks making her injury worse?
    It's an injury, I don't know how serious it is... but it seems rather pointless to compete if you are injured and risk being out of action for the rest of the year.
    Not sure how she comes to the conclusion that she can do the relay but not the 200...

    Maybe the point is that she went into the games knowing that she had an injury and would not be able complete at the level she could have... perhaps denying someone without an issue a place?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,230
    joe2019 said:

    Probably going against the grain... when everybody is saying how brave Simone Biles is to withdraw and admit her mental health problems.
    To me it seems the easy way out and of course disrespectful to other US athletes who missed out on a chance to compete at the Olympics.

    Obviously I don't know what's going on, but I would rather see an athlete compete sub par, like Dina Asher did, than seeing an athlete refusing to compete.

    Maybe it's just me, but it all sounds like poor attitude... right, now you can shred me to pieces

    What's your thoughts on Dina Asher Smith now she has pulled out of the 200m, but might do the relay? Should she do the 200m even if it risks making her injury worse?
    It's an injury, I don't know how serious it is... but it seems rather pointless to compete if you are injured and risk being out of action for the rest of the year.
    Not sure how she comes to the conclusion that she can do the relay but not the 200...

    Maybe the point is that she went into the games knowing that she had an injury and would not be able complete at the level she could have... perhaps denying someone without an issue a place?
    As I said... she did 11.05, which is a time no other GB athlete (outside the games) can do... and she did race, so I don't see the problem
    left the forum March 2023
  • joe2019
    joe2019 Posts: 1,338

    joe2019 said:

    Probably going against the grain... when everybody is saying how brave Simone Biles is to withdraw and admit her mental health problems.
    To me it seems the easy way out and of course disrespectful to other US athletes who missed out on a chance to compete at the Olympics.

    Obviously I don't know what's going on, but I would rather see an athlete compete sub par, like Dina Asher did, than seeing an athlete refusing to compete.

    Maybe it's just me, but it all sounds like poor attitude... right, now you can shred me to pieces

    What's your thoughts on Dina Asher Smith now she has pulled out of the 200m, but might do the relay? Should she do the 200m even if it risks making her injury worse?
    It's an injury, I don't know how serious it is... but it seems rather pointless to compete if you are injured and risk being out of action for the rest of the year.
    Not sure how she comes to the conclusion that she can do the relay but not the 200...

    Maybe the point is that she went into the games knowing that she had an injury and would not be able complete at the level she could have... perhaps denying someone without an issue a place?
    As I said... she did 11.05, which is a time no other GB athlete (outside the games) can do... and she did race, so I don't see the problem

    Fair... but she pulled out of the 200m?

  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,230
    joe2019 said:

    joe2019 said:

    Probably going against the grain... when everybody is saying how brave Simone Biles is to withdraw and admit her mental health problems.
    To me it seems the easy way out and of course disrespectful to other US athletes who missed out on a chance to compete at the Olympics.

    Obviously I don't know what's going on, but I would rather see an athlete compete sub par, like Dina Asher did, than seeing an athlete refusing to compete.

    Maybe it's just me, but it all sounds like poor attitude... right, now you can shred me to pieces

    What's your thoughts on Dina Asher Smith now she has pulled out of the 200m, but might do the relay? Should she do the 200m even if it risks making her injury worse?
    It's an injury, I don't know how serious it is... but it seems rather pointless to compete if you are injured and risk being out of action for the rest of the year.
    Not sure how she comes to the conclusion that she can do the relay but not the 200...

    Maybe the point is that she went into the games knowing that she had an injury and would not be able complete at the level she could have... perhaps denying someone without an issue a place?
    As I said... she did 11.05, which is a time no other GB athlete (outside the games) can do... and she did race, so I don't see the problem

    Fair... but she pulled out of the 200m?

    She might have an injury that prevents her from running the bend

    left the forum March 2023
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 7,196
    edited August 2021
    This thread is do-in me bloody nut in.
  • joe2019
    joe2019 Posts: 1,338


    Not sure how she comes to the conclusion that she can do the relay but not the 200...


    She might have an injury that prevents her from running the bend


    There you go you've answered your own question.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,201

    joe2019 said:

    Probably going against the grain... when everybody is saying how brave Simone Biles is to withdraw and admit her mental health problems.
    To me it seems the easy way out and of course disrespectful to other US athletes who missed out on a chance to compete at the Olympics.

    Obviously I don't know what's going on, but I would rather see an athlete compete sub par, like Dina Asher did, than seeing an athlete refusing to compete.

    Maybe it's just me, but it all sounds like poor attitude... right, now you can shred me to pieces

    What's your thoughts on Dina Asher Smith now she has pulled out of the 200m, but might do the relay? Should she do the 200m even if it risks making her injury worse?
    It's an injury, I don't know how serious it is... but it seems rather pointless to compete if you are injured and risk being out of action for the rest of the year.
    Not sure how she comes to the conclusion that she can do the relay but not the 200...

    Maybe the point is that she went into the games knowing that she had an injury and would not be able complete at the level she could have... perhaps denying someone without an issue a place?
    As I said... she did 11.05, which is a time no other GB athlete (outside the games) can do... and she did race, so I don't see the problem
    So what's the big difference?
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 14,615

    Probably going against the grain... when everybody is saying how brave Simone Biles is to withdraw and admit her mental health problems.
    To me it seems the easy way out and of course disrespectful to other US athletes who missed out on a chance to compete at the Olympics.

    Obviously I don't know what's going on, but I would rather see an athlete compete sub par, like Dina Asher did, than seeing an athlete refusing to compete.

    Maybe it's just me, but it all sounds like poor attitude... right, now you can shred me to pieces

    What's your thoughts on Dina Asher Smith now she has pulled out of the 200m, but might do the relay? Should she do the 200m even if it risks making her injury worse?
    It's an injury, I don't know how serious it is... but it seems rather pointless to compete if you are injured and risk being out of action for the rest of the year.
    Not sure how she comes to the conclusion that she can do the relay but not the 200...
    The start?
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,921

    Probably going against the grain... when everybody is saying how brave Simone Biles is to withdraw and admit her mental health problems.
    To me it seems the easy way out and of course disrespectful to other US athletes who missed out on a chance to compete at the Olympics.

    Obviously I don't know what's going on, but I would rather see an athlete compete sub par, like Dina Asher did, than seeing an athlete refusing to compete.

    Maybe it's just me, but it all sounds like poor attitude... right, now you can shred me to pieces

    What's your thoughts on Dina Asher Smith now she has pulled out of the 200m, but might do the relay? Should she do the 200m even if it risks making her injury worse?
    It's an injury, I don't know how serious it is... but it seems rather pointless to compete if you are injured and risk being out of action for the rest of the year.
    Not sure how she comes to the conclusion that she can do the relay but not the 200...
    The start?

    Obviously don't know the extent of an injury but a bold decision to go for the relay and not the individual race because you know you are not 100%.
    Imagine breaking down and being responsible for your team mates getting a DNF in the Olympic final, knowing that risk before the race.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,729
    Maybe she thinks she can get round fast enough to be worth a place in the relay but not be competitive in the 200. It's not just the risk of it tearing it's also the lack of training - I think she said she'd had 1 week proper training before the games -though the 200 would mean what another couple of races then the relay on top.
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  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,383
    joe2019 said:

    joe2019 said:

    Probably going against the grain... when everybody is saying how brave Simone Biles is to withdraw and admit her mental health problems.
    To me it seems the easy way out and of course disrespectful to other US athletes who missed out on a chance to compete at the Olympics.

    Obviously I don't know what's going on, but I would rather see an athlete compete sub par, like Dina Asher did, than seeing an athlete refusing to compete.

    Maybe it's just me, but it all sounds like poor attitude... right, now you can shred me to pieces

    What's your thoughts on Dina Asher Smith now she has pulled out of the 200m, but might do the relay? Should she do the 200m even if it risks making her injury worse?
    It's an injury, I don't know how serious it is... but it seems rather pointless to compete if you are injured and risk being out of action for the rest of the year.
    Not sure how she comes to the conclusion that she can do the relay but not the 200...

    Maybe the point is that she went into the games knowing that she had an injury and would not be able complete at the level she could have... perhaps denying someone without an issue a place?
    As I said... she did 11.05, which is a time no other GB athlete (outside the games) can do... and she did race, so I don't see the problem

    Fair... but she pulled out of the 200m?

    Half as far...


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  • elbowloh
    elbowloh Posts: 7,078

    Probably going against the grain... when everybody is saying how brave Simone Biles is to withdraw and admit her mental health problems.
    To me it seems the easy way out and of course disrespectful to other US athletes who missed out on a chance to compete at the Olympics.

    Obviously I don't know what's going on, but I would rather see an athlete compete sub par, like Dina Asher did, than seeing an athlete refusing to compete.

    Maybe it's just me, but it all sounds like poor attitude... right, now you can shred me to pieces

    What's your thoughts on Dina Asher Smith now she has pulled out of the 200m, but might do the relay? Should she do the 200m even if it risks making her injury worse?
    It's an injury, I don't know how serious it is... but it seems rather pointless to compete if you are injured and risk being out of action for the rest of the year.
    Not sure how she comes to the conclusion that she can do the relay but not the 200...
    The start?
    Yeah, don't need starting blocks.
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  • davidof
    davidof Posts: 3,036

    Chemistry...

    We currently have probably 1 in 4 student who at some point seeks help for mental health...
    Which is fine, because we have a robust system in place.
    The problem is the reliance on mitigating circumstances, deadline extensions and whatnot creates a vicious circle and once they move on from Education

    Sounds like my wife's uni... she had a student who had lost 5 grandparents in a single year. My wife asked for some kind of explanation of how that was possible.

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  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,304
    davidof said:

    Chemistry...

    We currently have probably 1 in 4 student who at some point seeks help for mental health...
    Which is fine, because we have a robust system in place.
    The problem is the reliance on mitigating circumstances, deadline extensions and whatnot creates a vicious circle and once they move on from Education

    Sounds like my wife's uni... she had a student who had lost 5 grandparents in a single year. My wife asked for some kind of explanation of how that was possible.

    People remarry. Not uncommon for people to have 2 sets of parents.
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  • Maybe it's just me, but it all sounds like poor attitude


    This is one of the biggest misconceptions when it comes to mental health. There is a huge distinction between 'resilience' and 'character' (or however you wish to frame it), and having a confirmed mental health issue such as an anxiety disorder, which I suspect Simone Biles may have, brought about by the abuse and subsequent trauma she has suffered.

    Every one of us faces tough points in our life, or situations which make us nervous or anxious, but which we push through as we can see the need or benefit of working through difficult situations to a better outcome. This is not the same as having an anxiety disorder, or suffering from depression and so on.

    Anxiety is a way your brain processes information and it consumes the way you think and act. You get stuck in an endless cycles of negative and irrational thoughts which impacts every aspect of your life (almost always in a negative way). You don't just pull yourself out of it, you need to understand the cognitive process and effectively re-train your brain to think differently. This usually requires CBT and other talking therapies and is a long and very slow process. I suspect the twisties Simone Biles experienced was a physical manifestation of her underlying anxiety and I am frankly amazed she has been able to compete at all.

    To address the idea of using MH as an excuse. The last thing you want to do in these situations is reveal your issues, the stigma attached and the fear of people misunderstanding is huge. For Simone Biles to reveal the true nature of her mental health it must have become unmanageable for her. For an athlete of her status, aligned with the expectation around her, to highlight her difficulties, takes real courage. The easiest thing would have been to feign a physical injury and avoid the real situation.

    Anxiety can also hit you at any time, many people don't always spot the red flags. It is perfectly conceivable she was doing well going into the Olympics and then suddenly got hit with it. Again, it is not a case of feeling a bit down, or pulling your socks up. If you get hit by a bout of anxiety or panic there is little you can do about it. You need time to understand what has caused it and take the relevant steps to address it.

    I think her attitude has been exemplary, she has admitted her issues to a global audience, recognised she needs to take a break and has obviously worked through things in order to get back to a point where she can compete. As a person and an athlete she has shown huge resilience and as someone who has mental health issues she has shown a clear understanding of what she needs to do to get back on track.
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,289



    Every one of us faces tough points in our life, or situations which make us nervous or anxious, but which we push through as we can see the need or benefit of working through difficult situations to a better outcome. This is not the same as having an anxiety disorder, or suffering from depression and so on.

    Good post, thank you.
    Simplest description of causes of mental health issues I've heard was if we imagine everyone has a bucket in which they put all the stresses, strains and worries of life. Not everybody has the same size bucket. If your bucket overflows this causes mental health issues.
    Huge oversimplification but it gets the point across about everyone having different levels of resilience quite well.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,230
    edited August 2021
    Sounds like Team USA need to invest more in sport psychologists?

    As an Olympic team, you can't afford to have your best athlete not competing
    left the forum March 2023
  • elbowloh
    elbowloh Posts: 7,078
    edited August 2021

    Sounds like Team USA need to invest more in sport psychologists?

    As an Olympic team, you can't afford to have your best athlete not competing

    Simone Biles has 4 Olympic Golds and 19 World Titles. She's done ok don't you think?

    On the subject of bravery, she's a recipient of the Arthur Ashe Courage Award. You might want to look up why and her team-mates received that award and see why she may have mental health issues.
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