Anna Kiesenhofer

13

Comments

  • yorkshireraw
    yorkshireraw Posts: 1,628
    edited July 2021
    If I've counted correctly that Dutch team have 8 WC and OG RR golds between them, all won in races without radios. This wasn't their first non-radio rodeo....
    As Boardman said on BBC last night (having initially dismissed the idea AVV thought she'd won during race commentary) they know well in advance the course and that they're not going to have radios - so they should put more focus onto making sure they know what is happening up front.
  • Rod11
    Rod11 Posts: 293

    If I've counted correctly that Dutch team have 8 WC and OG RR golds between them, all won in races without radios. This wasn't their first non-radio rodeo.....

    Completely agree, it's not as if they're completely inept at racing without radios, so although we can point out all the ways in which they should have known Kiesenhofer was still up the road, they can still race better than any of us can.

    For me it just seems like a complete mix of things that contributed to what happened. Dutch arrogance, lack of team work, questionable tactics, lack of clear timing information... People will say the lack of radios made for an exciting race, but honestly I didn't find it exciting at all, I found it cringe worthy. And as the likes of Uttrip Ludwig said, it didn't make for a great display of female cycling. I don't prescibe to the idea that radios make riders robots at all, and I'd much rather they actually got the time gap info over radio and made informed decisions about their tactics.

    There's absolutely the chance that radios would have made no difference in the outcome yesterday (aside from saving AvV some embarassment) but I think we'd all rather be celebrating the winner than discussing if that person 'deserved' it.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,750
    Rod11 said:

    If I've counted correctly that Dutch team have 8 WC and OG RR golds between them, all won in races without radios. This wasn't their first non-radio rodeo.....

    Completely agree, it's not as if they're completely inept at racing without radios, so although we can point out all the ways in which they should have known Kiesenhofer was still up the road, they can still race better than any of us can.

    For me it just seems like a complete mix of things that contributed to what happened. Dutch arrogance, lack of team work, questionable tactics, lack of clear timing information... People will say the lack of radios made for an exciting race, but honestly I didn't find it exciting at all, I found it cringe worthy. And as the likes of Uttrip Ludwig said, it didn't make for a great display of female cycling. I don't prescibe to the idea that radios make riders robots at all, and I'd much rather they actually got the time gap info over radio and made informed decisions about their tactics.

    There's absolutely the chance that radios would have made no difference in the outcome yesterday (aside from saving AvV some embarassment) but I think we'd all rather be celebrating the winner than discussing if that person 'deserved' it.
    Was the day before any better for the men? Leaving WvA to do all the chasing is no better than leaving all the chasing to the Dutch.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
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  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,231
    pblakeney said:

    Rod11 said:

    If I've counted correctly that Dutch team have 8 WC and OG RR golds between them, all won in races without radios. This wasn't their first non-radio rodeo.....

    Completely agree, it's not as if they're completely inept at racing without radios, so although we can point out all the ways in which they should have known Kiesenhofer was still up the road, they can still race better than any of us can.

    For me it just seems like a complete mix of things that contributed to what happened. Dutch arrogance, lack of team work, questionable tactics, lack of clear timing information... People will say the lack of radios made for an exciting race, but honestly I didn't find it exciting at all, I found it cringe worthy. And as the likes of Uttrip Ludwig said, it didn't make for a great display of female cycling. I don't prescibe to the idea that radios make riders robots at all, and I'd much rather they actually got the time gap info over radio and made informed decisions about their tactics.

    There's absolutely the chance that radios would have made no difference in the outcome yesterday (aside from saving AvV some embarassment) but I think we'd all rather be celebrating the winner than discussing if that person 'deserved' it.
    Was the day before any better for the men? Leaving WvA to do all the chasing is no better than leaving all the chasing to the Dutch.
    WvA should have been saying "come on, don't you all want to fight for silver behind me, not bronze?"
  • yorkshireraw
    yorkshireraw Posts: 1,628

    pblakeney said:

    Rod11 said:

    If I've counted correctly that Dutch team have 8 WC and OG RR golds between them, all won in races without radios. This wasn't their first non-radio rodeo.....

    Completely agree, it's not as if they're completely inept at racing without radios, so although we can point out all the ways in which they should have known Kiesenhofer was still up the road, they can still race better than any of us can.

    For me it just seems like a complete mix of things that contributed to what happened. Dutch arrogance, lack of team work, questionable tactics, lack of clear timing information... People will say the lack of radios made for an exciting race, but honestly I didn't find it exciting at all, I found it cringe worthy. And as the likes of Uttrip Ludwig said, it didn't make for a great display of female cycling. I don't prescibe to the idea that radios make riders robots at all, and I'd much rather they actually got the time gap info over radio and made informed decisions about their tactics.

    There's absolutely the chance that radios would have made no difference in the outcome yesterday (aside from saving AvV some embarassment) but I think we'd all rather be celebrating the winner than discussing if that person 'deserved' it.
    Was the day before any better for the men? Leaving WvA to do all the chasing is no better than leaving all the chasing to the Dutch.
    WvA should have been saying "come on, don't you all want to fight for silver behind me, not bronze?"
    Exactly this - he was more than likely to rinse them in the sprint either way, so why not get in the fight for 2 medals not 1.....
  • davidof
    davidof Posts: 3,036
    pblakeney said:



    Was the day before any better for the men? Leaving WvA to do all the chasing is no better than leaving all the chasing to the Dutch.

    The winner, Carapaz, came third in the tour a couple of weeks ago and it was a mountainous course with a steep climb. No embarrassment coming second to him.

    In the women's event the winner once came second in a cyclosportif.
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  • Wheelspinner
    Wheelspinner Posts: 6,562
    davidof said:

    pblakeney said:



    Was the day before any better for the men? Leaving WvA to do all the chasing is no better than leaving all the chasing to the Dutch.

    The winner, Carapaz, came third in the tour a couple of weeks ago and it was a mountainous course with a steep climb. No embarrassment coming second to him.

    In the women's event the winner once came second in a cyclosportif.
    Jesus wept you sound so bitter.

    It was a bike race. Other than all the arbitrary rules about what length socks you can wear and how heavy your bike can be, and maybe a bit about "no cheating"... there's really only one rule in a race.

    Finish first.

    All the other drivel about who really is a better rider and which tactics should have been used by whom are just... drivel.

    Fastest rider from point A to point B on the day won the gold medal. That's all that counts.

    End of.



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  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,738
    There's really no excuse for not knowing she was up the road.

    They've got team personnel handing bottles up who will have seen her ride past 5-10 minutes before who should be able to use a watch. Plus it's on TV, their team personnel must have phones, surely someone must have thought this needs closing down faster and got that message to the riders.

    It wasnt even a big break shouldn't be hard to keep track of how many have been caught.

    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,196
    Rod11 said:

    And as the likes of Uttrip Ludwig said, it didn't make for a great display of female cycling. I don't prescibe to the idea that radios make riders robots at all, and I'd much rather they actually got the time gap info over radio and made informed decisions about their tactics.

    I just got off our Monday morning call - consensus was that the women's race was brilliant and very enjoyable to watch...

    We might think it was farcical but your average Olympic watcher who doesn't know anything about cycling might have a totally different opinion.



  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,231
    Worth remembering that van Vleuten went clear of the peloton and didn't reduce the gap to the break to less than 5 minutes. Kiesenhofer wasn't hanging around.

    She's said “I have really sacrificed so much for today. I sacrificed everything just to get a top-15 place but to get this, it’s just such a reward.”

    If anyone is still confused about what Deignan thought - this is a quote in The Times: “The best person won the race; Annemiek was the strongest so chapeau to her”.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,196
    Anna is a TrainerRoad user / forum member so that's quite a nice place to be at the moment.
  • Rod11
    Rod11 Posts: 293

    Rod11 said:

    And as the likes of Uttrip Ludwig said, it didn't make for a great display of female cycling. I don't prescibe to the idea that radios make riders robots at all, and I'd much rather they actually got the time gap info over radio and made informed decisions about their tactics.

    I just got off our Monday morning call - consensus was that the women's race was brilliant and very enjoyable to watch...

    We might think it was farcical but your average Olympic watcher who doesn't know anything about cycling might have a totally different opinion.



    Fair point, to the average viewer who doesn't know the riders, it probably seemed like a great solo effort (which it was regardless) and nailbiting will she/won't she be caught. But to the rest of the cycling community, sponsors, those that already dislike women's cycling, the race probably didn't do much to boost its image
  • joe2019
    joe2019 Posts: 1,338
    Kiesenhofer riding big, big, big rings.


  • Lanterne_Rogue
    Lanterne_Rogue Posts: 4,091

    Rod11 said:

    And as the likes of Uttrip Ludwig said, it didn't make for a great display of female cycling. I don't prescibe to the idea that radios make riders robots at all, and I'd much rather they actually got the time gap info over radio and made informed decisions about their tactics.

    I just got off our Monday morning call - consensus was that the women's race was brilliant and very enjoyable to watch...

    We might think it was farcical but your average Olympic watcher who doesn't know anything about cycling might have a totally different opinion.



    It's entirely possible to know about cycling and enjoy a good farce, and given the way that Kiesenhofer was tying up at the end I still think the five minute lead was more marginal than people think it was (she lost something like 3 minutes in the last 8km). Would I want every race to be that shambolic? No. Did I enjoy it immensely? Yes.
  • davep1
    davep1 Posts: 836
    alan_a said:

    The board is still used at big races like the tour etc because in poor weather analogue still works. Also if the race is massively split up then you might be out of range of your team car so no radio.

    This particularly would be the case for the auto bus on long mountain stages, they could be 30 minutes behind the race, and only 1 or 2 teams have left a car to take up the support duties for the sprinters = no radio for a large number of sprinters. Ok that’s not the pointy end, but still important.

    There's also a good chance that whatever they use, it will get dropped from a moving moto, or bashed around in the chaos of a race. A blackboard and chalk are more likely to survive the general hurly burly of a race situation.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,150



    It's entirely possible to know about cycling and enjoy a good farce,

    Riders mistakenly thinking they've won is one of my favourite things in the sport.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • neonriver
    neonriver Posts: 228
    RichN95. said:



    It's entirely possible to know about cycling and enjoy a good farce,

    Riders mistakenly thinking they've won is one of my favourite things in the sport.
    That and the lone rider sprinting for the line and celebrating as they hear the bell for one lap to go
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,105
    RichN95. said:



    It's entirely possible to know about cycling and enjoy a good farce,

    Riders mistakenly thinking they've won is one of my favourite things in the sport.

  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,231

  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,150
    neonriver said:

    RichN95. said:



    It's entirely possible to know about cycling and enjoy a good farce,

    Riders mistakenly thinking they've won is one of my favourite things in the sport.
    That and the lone rider sprinting for the line and celebrating as they hear the bell for one lap to go

    There are three distinct sub-genres.

    1. Not knowing someone was still up the road
    2. Attacking a lap too early.
    3. Being pipped on the line
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,388
    All 3 seem to have happened to boys and girls, with and without radios too...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,231
    RichN95. said:

    neonriver said:

    RichN95. said:



    It's entirely possible to know about cycling and enjoy a good farce,

    Riders mistakenly thinking they've won is one of my favourite things in the sport.
    That and the lone rider sprinting for the line and celebrating as they hear the bell for one lap to go

    There are three distinct sub-genres.

    1. Not knowing someone was still up the road
    2. Attacking a lap too early.
    3. Being pipped on the line
    Some crackers of each genre here: https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/seven-riders-celebrated-early-lost-race-235600

    I especially like Morgan Kneisky, celebrating while not realising he hadn't dropped everyone, and Jon Mould with a look of confusion as he rides past.

  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,388
    The Czech (?) dude in the Junior/U23 Cross Worlds at ?Zolder was epic too. Just becasue he fully went for the celebration.

    I got the feeling AvV knew there was something up
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 20,596
    Alaphilippe did it last year in LBL although he ruined it slightly by being demoted.
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    Cavendish winning the 2003 Island's Games for instance.
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,490
    andyp said:

    RichN95. said:



    It's entirely possible to know about cycling and enjoy a good farce,

    Riders mistakenly thinking they've won is one of my favourite things in the sport.

    My favourite. Such an iconic one with the background. Makes for a nice photo though I suppose!
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,150
    Pross said:

    <

    My favourite. Such an iconic one with the background. Makes for a nice photo though I suppose!


    You can image Pozzato did it on purpose with that in mind
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 18,932
    When we say 'no radios' I assumed that to mean that the riders didn't have radios/earpieces, but I've seen it said elsewhere that there was no race radio communication at all so the DS's wouldn't have had the time gaps either (at least not from that source). Do we know if this is true?
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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,615

    When we say 'no radios' I assumed that to mean that the riders didn't have radios/earpieces, but I've seen it said elsewhere that there was no race radio communication at all so the DS's wouldn't have had the time gaps either (at least not from that source). Do we know if this is true?

    There were some Dutchies mid race reporting that, but I don't know if that is confirmed.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,750
    Surely not beyond the wit of a DS to have a phone running GCN/ES.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.