Anna Kiesenhofer
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If I've counted correctly that Dutch team have 8 WC and OG RR golds between them, all won in races without radios. This wasn't their first non-radio rodeo....
As Boardman said on BBC last night (having initially dismissed the idea AVV thought she'd won during race commentary) they know well in advance the course and that they're not going to have radios - so they should put more focus onto making sure they know what is happening up front.0 -
Completely agree, it's not as if they're completely inept at racing without radios, so although we can point out all the ways in which they should have known Kiesenhofer was still up the road, they can still race better than any of us can.yorkshireraw said:If I've counted correctly that Dutch team have 8 WC and OG RR golds between them, all won in races without radios. This wasn't their first non-radio rodeo.....
For me it just seems like a complete mix of things that contributed to what happened. Dutch arrogance, lack of team work, questionable tactics, lack of clear timing information... People will say the lack of radios made for an exciting race, but honestly I didn't find it exciting at all, I found it cringe worthy. And as the likes of Uttrip Ludwig said, it didn't make for a great display of female cycling. I don't prescibe to the idea that radios make riders robots at all, and I'd much rather they actually got the time gap info over radio and made informed decisions about their tactics.
There's absolutely the chance that radios would have made no difference in the outcome yesterday (aside from saving AvV some embarassment) but I think we'd all rather be celebrating the winner than discussing if that person 'deserved' it.
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Was the day before any better for the men? Leaving WvA to do all the chasing is no better than leaving all the chasing to the Dutch.Rod11 said:
Completely agree, it's not as if they're completely inept at racing without radios, so although we can point out all the ways in which they should have known Kiesenhofer was still up the road, they can still race better than any of us can.yorkshireraw said:If I've counted correctly that Dutch team have 8 WC and OG RR golds between them, all won in races without radios. This wasn't their first non-radio rodeo.....
For me it just seems like a complete mix of things that contributed to what happened. Dutch arrogance, lack of team work, questionable tactics, lack of clear timing information... People will say the lack of radios made for an exciting race, but honestly I didn't find it exciting at all, I found it cringe worthy. And as the likes of Uttrip Ludwig said, it didn't make for a great display of female cycling. I don't prescibe to the idea that radios make riders robots at all, and I'd much rather they actually got the time gap info over radio and made informed decisions about their tactics.
There's absolutely the chance that radios would have made no difference in the outcome yesterday (aside from saving AvV some embarassment) but I think we'd all rather be celebrating the winner than discussing if that person 'deserved' it.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
WvA should have been saying "come on, don't you all want to fight for silver behind me, not bronze?"pblakeney said:
Was the day before any better for the men? Leaving WvA to do all the chasing is no better than leaving all the chasing to the Dutch.Rod11 said:
Completely agree, it's not as if they're completely inept at racing without radios, so although we can point out all the ways in which they should have known Kiesenhofer was still up the road, they can still race better than any of us can.yorkshireraw said:If I've counted correctly that Dutch team have 8 WC and OG RR golds between them, all won in races without radios. This wasn't their first non-radio rodeo.....
For me it just seems like a complete mix of things that contributed to what happened. Dutch arrogance, lack of team work, questionable tactics, lack of clear timing information... People will say the lack of radios made for an exciting race, but honestly I didn't find it exciting at all, I found it cringe worthy. And as the likes of Uttrip Ludwig said, it didn't make for a great display of female cycling. I don't prescibe to the idea that radios make riders robots at all, and I'd much rather they actually got the time gap info over radio and made informed decisions about their tactics.
There's absolutely the chance that radios would have made no difference in the outcome yesterday (aside from saving AvV some embarassment) but I think we'd all rather be celebrating the winner than discussing if that person 'deserved' it.0 -
Exactly this - he was more than likely to rinse them in the sprint either way, so why not get in the fight for 2 medals not 1.....kingstongraham said:
WvA should have been saying "come on, don't you all want to fight for silver behind me, not bronze?"pblakeney said:
Was the day before any better for the men? Leaving WvA to do all the chasing is no better than leaving all the chasing to the Dutch.Rod11 said:
Completely agree, it's not as if they're completely inept at racing without radios, so although we can point out all the ways in which they should have known Kiesenhofer was still up the road, they can still race better than any of us can.yorkshireraw said:If I've counted correctly that Dutch team have 8 WC and OG RR golds between them, all won in races without radios. This wasn't their first non-radio rodeo.....
For me it just seems like a complete mix of things that contributed to what happened. Dutch arrogance, lack of team work, questionable tactics, lack of clear timing information... People will say the lack of radios made for an exciting race, but honestly I didn't find it exciting at all, I found it cringe worthy. And as the likes of Uttrip Ludwig said, it didn't make for a great display of female cycling. I don't prescibe to the idea that radios make riders robots at all, and I'd much rather they actually got the time gap info over radio and made informed decisions about their tactics.
There's absolutely the chance that radios would have made no difference in the outcome yesterday (aside from saving AvV some embarassment) but I think we'd all rather be celebrating the winner than discussing if that person 'deserved' it.0 -
The winner, Carapaz, came third in the tour a couple of weeks ago and it was a mountainous course with a steep climb. No embarrassment coming second to him.pblakeney said:
Was the day before any better for the men? Leaving WvA to do all the chasing is no better than leaving all the chasing to the Dutch.
In the women's event the winner once came second in a cyclosportif.BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
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Jesus wept you sound so bitter.davidof said:
The winner, Carapaz, came third in the tour a couple of weeks ago and it was a mountainous course with a steep climb. No embarrassment coming second to him.pblakeney said:
Was the day before any better for the men? Leaving WvA to do all the chasing is no better than leaving all the chasing to the Dutch.
In the women's event the winner once came second in a cyclosportif.
It was a bike race. Other than all the arbitrary rules about what length socks you can wear and how heavy your bike can be, and maybe a bit about "no cheating"... there's really only one rule in a race.
Finish first.
All the other drivel about who really is a better rider and which tactics should have been used by whom are just... drivel.
Fastest rider from point A to point B on the day won the gold medal. That's all that counts.
End of.
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There's really no excuse for not knowing she was up the road.
They've got team personnel handing bottles up who will have seen her ride past 5-10 minutes before who should be able to use a watch. Plus it's on TV, their team personnel must have phones, surely someone must have thought this needs closing down faster and got that message to the riders.
It wasnt even a big break shouldn't be hard to keep track of how many have been caught.
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]1 -
I just got off our Monday morning call - consensus was that the women's race was brilliant and very enjoyable to watch...Rod11 said:And as the likes of Uttrip Ludwig said, it didn't make for a great display of female cycling. I don't prescibe to the idea that radios make riders robots at all, and I'd much rather they actually got the time gap info over radio and made informed decisions about their tactics.
We might think it was farcical but your average Olympic watcher who doesn't know anything about cycling might have a totally different opinion.
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Worth remembering that van Vleuten went clear of the peloton and didn't reduce the gap to the break to less than 5 minutes. Kiesenhofer wasn't hanging around.
She's said “I have really sacrificed so much for today. I sacrificed everything just to get a top-15 place but to get this, it’s just such a reward.”
If anyone is still confused about what Deignan thought - this is a quote in The Times: “The best person won the race; Annemiek was the strongest so chapeau to her”.0 -
Anna is a TrainerRoad user / forum member so that's quite a nice place to be at the moment.0
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Fair point, to the average viewer who doesn't know the riders, it probably seemed like a great solo effort (which it was regardless) and nailbiting will she/won't she be caught. But to the rest of the cycling community, sponsors, those that already dislike women's cycling, the race probably didn't do much to boost its imagebobmcstuff said:
I just got off our Monday morning call - consensus was that the women's race was brilliant and very enjoyable to watch...Rod11 said:And as the likes of Uttrip Ludwig said, it didn't make for a great display of female cycling. I don't prescibe to the idea that radios make riders robots at all, and I'd much rather they actually got the time gap info over radio and made informed decisions about their tactics.
We might think it was farcical but your average Olympic watcher who doesn't know anything about cycling might have a totally different opinion.0 -
Kiesenhofer riding big, big, big rings.
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It's entirely possible to know about cycling and enjoy a good farce, and given the way that Kiesenhofer was tying up at the end I still think the five minute lead was more marginal than people think it was (she lost something like 3 minutes in the last 8km). Would I want every race to be that shambolic? No. Did I enjoy it immensely? Yes.bobmcstuff said:
I just got off our Monday morning call - consensus was that the women's race was brilliant and very enjoyable to watch...Rod11 said:And as the likes of Uttrip Ludwig said, it didn't make for a great display of female cycling. I don't prescibe to the idea that radios make riders robots at all, and I'd much rather they actually got the time gap info over radio and made informed decisions about their tactics.
We might think it was farcical but your average Olympic watcher who doesn't know anything about cycling might have a totally different opinion.0 -
There's also a good chance that whatever they use, it will get dropped from a moving moto, or bashed around in the chaos of a race. A blackboard and chalk are more likely to survive the general hurly burly of a race situation.alan_a said:The board is still used at big races like the tour etc because in poor weather analogue still works. Also if the race is massively split up then you might be out of range of your team car so no radio.
This particularly would be the case for the auto bus on long mountain stages, they could be 30 minutes behind the race, and only 1 or 2 teams have left a car to take up the support duties for the sprinters = no radio for a large number of sprinters. Ok that’s not the pointy end, but still important.
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Riders mistakenly thinking they've won is one of my favourite things in the sport.Lanterne_Rogue said:
It's entirely possible to know about cycling and enjoy a good farce,
Twitter: @RichN950 -
That and the lone rider sprinting for the line and celebrating as they hear the bell for one lap to goRichN95. said:
Riders mistakenly thinking they've won is one of my favourite things in the sport.Lanterne_Rogue said:
It's entirely possible to know about cycling and enjoy a good farce,1 -
RichN95. said:
Riders mistakenly thinking they've won is one of my favourite things in the sport.Lanterne_Rogue said:
It's entirely possible to know about cycling and enjoy a good farce,
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neonriver said:
That and the lone rider sprinting for the line and celebrating as they hear the bell for one lap to goRichN95. said:
Riders mistakenly thinking they've won is one of my favourite things in the sport.Lanterne_Rogue said:
It's entirely possible to know about cycling and enjoy a good farce,
There are three distinct sub-genres.
1. Not knowing someone was still up the road
2. Attacking a lap too early.
3. Being pipped on the lineTwitter: @RichN950 -
Some crackers of each genre here: https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/seven-riders-celebrated-early-lost-race-235600RichN95. said:neonriver said:
That and the lone rider sprinting for the line and celebrating as they hear the bell for one lap to goRichN95. said:
Riders mistakenly thinking they've won is one of my favourite things in the sport.Lanterne_Rogue said:
It's entirely possible to know about cycling and enjoy a good farce,
There are three distinct sub-genres.
1. Not knowing someone was still up the road
2. Attacking a lap too early.
3. Being pipped on the line
I especially like Morgan Kneisky, celebrating while not realising he hadn't dropped everyone, and Jon Mould with a look of confusion as he rides past.
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Alaphilippe did it last year in LBL although he ruined it slightly by being demoted.0
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Cavendish winning the 2003 Island's Games for instance..
The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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My favourite. Such an iconic one with the background. Makes for a nice photo though I suppose!andyp said:RichN95. said:
Riders mistakenly thinking they've won is one of my favourite things in the sport.Lanterne_Rogue said:
It's entirely possible to know about cycling and enjoy a good farce,0 -
When we say 'no radios' I assumed that to mean that the riders didn't have radios/earpieces, but I've seen it said elsewhere that there was no race radio communication at all so the DS's wouldn't have had the time gaps either (at least not from that source). Do we know if this is true?“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
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There were some Dutchies mid race reporting that, but I don't know if that is confirmed.tailwindhome said:When we say 'no radios' I assumed that to mean that the riders didn't have radios/earpieces, but I've seen it said elsewhere that there was no race radio communication at all so the DS's wouldn't have had the time gaps either (at least not from that source). Do we know if this is true?
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Surely not beyond the wit of a DS to have a phone running GCN/ES.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0
