Macroeconomics, the economy, inflation etc. *likely to be very dull*

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Comments

  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,605

    rjsterry said:

    Jezyboy said:

    Lots of moonshot type green/low carbon initiatives and research that could be sold to the rest of the world would seem a potential start to me.

    Probably looking for paying for it by borrowing. But perhaps it could be a meaningful way of making sure that when you went outside the m25 there were more jobs than just working in distribution centres.

    Can you share some “shovel ready” examples

    I do not believe the Govt is better at picking winners than the market
    They don't need to pick winners. They don't offer tax breaks to the film industry on a production by production basis. Some of those films will have lost money. Similarly they did manage to regenerate the Docklands and other areas without picking winners. I don't think it matters if not every renewables startup makes it.
    Docklands was 40 years ago and arguably both of your examples are them choosing not to do something.

    I am not a purist but do think the Govt’s best hope of improving thing is to stop doing stuff.
    I think you are agreeing with me. There are of course more recent examples but thought the Docklands would be appropriate :)
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,928



    Docklands was 40 years ago and arguably both of your examples are them choosing not to do something.

    I am not a purist but do think the Govt’s best hope of improving thing is to stop doing stuff.

    There are probably some that believe in free markets more than you, but not many, so I'd say your purity rating is pretty high.

    By way of example based on the posts above, the government could propose a tariff it will pay per tonne of carbon captured. The free market can then work out the best way to make money from that proposal.

    Unfortunately, most of the ideas put forward by the private sector are all about patenting something with the hope of making billions one day.

    I often think that the easiest thing for UK to do is copy ideas from abroad that have been test driven. The other side of that coin is to ask why nobody else has done your new idea.

    Knowing nothing aboutthe subject do you know why nobody else has adopted it.

    None of these ideas will alleviate the current recession/cost of living crisis
    Specifically on carbon capture, the government plans to do it in 2030s. At the moment, the emphasis is on reducing carbon emissions which is done by the carbon market. The thinking is that carbon capture is too expensive at the moment.

    The UK is a world leader in offshore wind which was delivered through a similar mechanism. Other countries have failed on that front.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,345



    I often think that the easiest thing for UK to do is copy ideas from abroad that have been test driven.

    That'll be the Chinese model.
    They will beat us every day due to slave labour reduced costs.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    rjsterry said:

    rjsterry said:

    Jezyboy said:

    Lots of moonshot type green/low carbon initiatives and research that could be sold to the rest of the world would seem a potential start to me.

    Probably looking for paying for it by borrowing. But perhaps it could be a meaningful way of making sure that when you went outside the m25 there were more jobs than just working in distribution centres.

    Can you share some “shovel ready” examples

    I do not believe the Govt is better at picking winners than the market
    They don't need to pick winners. They don't offer tax breaks to the film industry on a production by production basis. Some of those films will have lost money. Similarly they did manage to regenerate the Docklands and other areas without picking winners. I don't think it matters if not every renewables startup makes it.
    Docklands was 40 years ago and arguably both of your examples are them choosing not to do something.

    I am not a purist but do think the Govt’s best hope of improving thing is to stop doing stuff.
    I think you are agreeing with me. There are of course more recent examples but thought the Docklands would be appropriate :)
    We are due to move back to London in September and it feels weird that I may never come back here.

    Silicon Roundabout is a good recent example which I reckon was coupled with an unofficial tax break for tech firms
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,648
    edited May 2022
    Are any of those charts shocking?

    "Landlords were more likely to increase rent for new tenancies than renewed tenancies" Yeah no 5h1t.
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    pangolin said:

    Are any of those charts shocking?

    "Landlords were more likely to increase rent for new tenancies than renewed tenancies" Yeah no 5h1t.
    The proportion of rental properties being run by a) amateurs and b) for the purpose of a pension is eye watering.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,928

    pangolin said:

    Are any of those charts shocking?

    "Landlords were more likely to increase rent for new tenancies than renewed tenancies" Yeah no 5h1t.
    The proportion of rental properties being run by a) amateurs and b) for the purpose of a pension is eye watering.
    Why is it eye watering?
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,648

    pangolin said:

    Are any of those charts shocking?

    "Landlords were more likely to increase rent for new tenancies than renewed tenancies" Yeah no 5h1t.
    The proportion of rental properties being run by a) amateurs and b) for the purpose of a pension is eye watering.
    Wouldn't it be odd not to acknowledge that owning properties will benefit you in retirement?
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,345

    pangolin said:

    Are any of those charts shocking?

    "Landlords were more likely to increase rent for new tenancies than renewed tenancies" Yeah no 5h1t.
    The proportion of rental properties being run by a) amateurs and b) for the purpose of a pension is eye watering.
    I am surprised by your level of surprise.
    Buy to let as a pension fund strategy is decades old.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 3,616

    pangolin said:

    Are any of those charts shocking?

    "Landlords were more likely to increase rent for new tenancies than renewed tenancies" Yeah no 5h1t.
    The proportion of rental properties being run by a) amateurs and b) for the purpose of a pension is eye watering.
    Honestly?

    Much rather rent from a landlord that had a single/small handful of properties that was viewing them as a longterm investment than a slum lord with masses of cheap properties they didn't care about.

    The worst property I've rented was from a full time "pro" landlord, it was fine during the summer, but I didn't fancy renting somewhere in winter where you could fit your hand in the gap between the window frame and the wall...

  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,928
    Jezyboy said:

    pangolin said:

    Are any of those charts shocking?

    "Landlords were more likely to increase rent for new tenancies than renewed tenancies" Yeah no 5h1t.
    The proportion of rental properties being run by a) amateurs and b) for the purpose of a pension is eye watering.
    Honestly?

    Much rather rent from a landlord that had a single/small handful of properties that was viewing them as a longterm investment than a slum lord with masses of cheap properties they didn't care about.

    The worst property I've rented was from a full time "pro" landlord, it was fine during the summer, but I didn't fancy renting somewhere in winter where you could fit your hand in the gap between the window frame and the wall...

    The other option is to have largish companies renting out properties. In some countries it can be common for a company to own a whole building and let out all the flats. This potentially makes it easier to manage for both the landlord and the tenant.

    The issue is that yields are really bad, so all new builds are sold as it is far profitable to do that.
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,151
    edited May 2022
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T59EDTqqW0A
    I know they don't really have a choice, and it's a good thing to do. That's another 15 billion on top of the 500,000,000,000 quid, plus less tax revenue from various streams.
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,151

    Oh, and here's the historic interest rate chart.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited May 2022
    It’s the mother of all wealth transfers, in the lead productive way possible. Rentier capitalism for the sole purpose of keeping the young out of the housing system to pay for their own retirement. F@ck me.

    Utterly unproductive at best.



  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867

    It’s the mother of all wealth transfers, in the lead productive way possible. Rentier capitalism for the sole purpose of keeping the young out of the housing system to pay for their own retirement. F@ck me.

    Utterly unproductive at best.



    you don't see it as providing a much needed service whilst providing diversity in their investment portfolio?
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,421

    It’s the mother of all wealth transfers, in the lead productive way possible. Rentier capitalism for the sole purpose of keeping the young out of the housing system to pay for their own retirement. F@ck me.

    Utterly unproductive at best.



    you don't see it as providing a much needed service whilst providing diversity in their investment portfolio?

    It does rather seem to entrench the inequality, by yet another reason why property is unaffordable for young people. Given that the rental market is much greater proportion on the Continent, I wonder how that business model works, if it's not treating housing as a major income stream for wealthy investors.
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,579
    Plenty of 'buy to leters' aren't wealthy. They would just rather invest in something tangible that they have an understanding of.
    Suggesting private landlords renting is "for the sole purpose of keeping the young out of the housing system" is a very warped view of someone who is massively ageist and has a chip on their shoulder bigger than the shard.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,928
    edited May 2022

    It’s the mother of all wealth transfers, in the lead productive way possible. Rentier capitalism for the sole purpose of keeping the young out of the housing system to pay for their own retirement. F@ck me.

    Utterly unproductive at best.



    you don't see it as providing a much needed service whilst providing diversity in their investment portfolio?
    It is a service, because no corporate would accept the yields on offer. Or maybe that means they are part of a broken system supporting unsustainable house prices.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited May 2022

    It’s the mother of all wealth transfers, in the lead productive way possible. Rentier capitalism for the sole purpose of keeping the young out of the housing system to pay for their own retirement. F@ck me.

    Utterly unproductive at best.



    you don't see it as providing a much needed service whilst providing diversity in their investment portfolio?
    Really don’t tbh. What is the service? Owning something you need but can’t afford to buy?

    There’s a good reason rentier capitialism is a derogatory description.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited May 2022

    Plenty of 'buy to leters' aren't wealthy. They would just rather invest in something tangible that they have an understanding of.
    Suggesting private landlords renting is "for the sole purpose of keeping the young out of the housing system" is a very warped view of someone who is massively ageist and has a chip on their shoulder bigger than the shard.

    Think about the incentives and come back to me.

    That may not be the reason for doing it but that system creates all the incentives to do so
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867

    Plenty of 'buy to leters' aren't wealthy. They would just rather invest in something tangible that they have an understanding of.
    Suggesting private landlords renting is "for the sole purpose of keeping the young out of the housing system" is a very warped view of someone who is massively ageist and has a chip on their shoulder bigger than the shard.

    Think about the incentives and come back to me.

    That may not be the reason for doing it but that system creates all the incentives to do so
    I would agree the previous incentives (a market distortion) were wrong but my understanding is that most of them have been removed.
  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 3,616
    Given there's been well over 10 years of effort to make work pay, it seems strange that the people still seemingly get caught in traps where taking more work is not financially worth while.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,345
    People in the 50-64 year old bracket may retire early, who knew?
    Phht.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited June 2022
    pblakeney said:

    People in the 50-64 year old bracket may retire early, who knew?
    Phht.

    Right. There’s a lot of talk in the telegraph and some MPs that it is the welfare system - specifically UC - that is creating a workshy workforce, hence the massive job vacancy issue currently.

    The point of the thread above is to look at what is actually causing the labour shortage. Plainly it is not UC.

    Sure it’s “obvious” - everyone whinges that everyone’s talking out their @rse so I figured the data was worth sharing?

    Basically people retiring early and people going to uni/school and a lack of replacements.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,345
    Basically the the statistics are bollocks based on the assumption that everyone should be working and paying taxes.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.