TdF 2021: Rest day 2 ***SPOILERS***

2

Comments

  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,533
    Anyway...
    The lack of most sprinters and the lack of a real threat to the yellow has turned the race mad. Nobody wants to bother controlling the race. Its a little ironic that because nobody wants to work, everybody is on the limit every day for the first hour or two. I'd put money on a few of the chubbier riders wishing that they were back in the Sky/Froome stranglehold days.

    "Nope, that's your ten, one out one in from now on, don't even think about trying to attack or Luke Rowe will chase you down and gut you with a hunting knife"

    "Fair enough, I didn't want to go anyway, but you know what DS's are like, you've got to try. I'll be at the back with the others, pop by later when you knock off for the day, got some mad gossip about one of the Lotto boys"
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  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,790
    Pross said:

    My prediction is that Carapaz will finish lower on GC than he is at present.

    He has to do a do or die to get on the podium and probably blow a gasket ... You could well be right
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,700
    edited July 2021
    rick_chasey said:

    RichN95. said:

    rick_chasey said:



    I am in the camp of sceptical about Ineos tactics.

    I'm not sure what people expect. The Tour is usually won by the best rider, and they clearly haven't got the best rider so their options are somewhat limited.
    I expect them to not use the tactics as if they do have the best rider.
    The problem is that the other teams still treat them like they have the best rider.
    Whereas Jumbo can now send whoever they like up the road, if Ineos tried that, they'd be marked out of the game. Domestiques only as far as that is concerned.
    Having the unknown quantity in Vingegaard as opposed to Roglic offers them a certain amount of freedom.
    The others teams are content to try for stage wins and have their leader follow wheels.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,445
    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    There is a lot of focus on Ineos.

    Because it's weird tactics.

    Jumbo however, sending 3 strong guys up the road, working out who is the best and letting the other two fall back to help their GC contender at different points on the road was sensational.

    Very unlike Jumbo too as they are usually stone age in their tactics.
    Sensational? Hmm. You can't really criticise a team that wins, but if Vingegaard had needed help yesterday then the team were completely reliant on Teunissen to provide it. It was high risk. Horner rightly called them out for it on his stage analysis.
  • JimD666
    JimD666 Posts: 2,293
    Nibali has abandoned to focus on Olympics.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,137
    JimD666 said:

    Nibali has abandoned to focus on Olympics.

    That's a shame the way he has been lighting up this race......oh!
  • JimD666
    JimD666 Posts: 2,293
    Pross said:

    JimD666 said:

    Nibali has abandoned to focus on Olympics.

    That's a shame the way he has been lighting up this race......oh!
    Yeah I'd forgotten he was even in it.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    JimD666 said:

    Nibali has abandoned to focus on Olympics.


    What sport is he doping, because I can't see him doing much in the cycling. I reckon he's a good trap shooter.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • mrb123
    mrb123 Posts: 4,787
    RichN95. said:

    JimD666 said:

    Nibali has abandoned to focus on Olympics.


    What sport is he doping, because I can't see him doing much in the cycling. I reckon he's a good trap shooter.
    Freudian slip?
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    You never know, Pogacar could totally collapse in the final TT and Richie Porte, sorry Richard Carapaz could move onto the podium...
    Correlation is not causation.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,533
    above_the_cows said:

    You never know, Pogacar could totally collapse in the final TT and Richie Porte, sorry Richard Carapaz could move onto the podium...

    Imagine Roglic watching that from home, thinking "if I was there..."
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  • Lanterne_Rogue
    Lanterne_Rogue Posts: 4,325
    edited July 2021
    JimD666 said:

    Nibali has abandoned to focus on Olympics.


    His agent said Nibali "was expecting a new sofa to be delivered next week, the TV has a dodgy speaker that needs fixing, and he's got a new beer fridge that he'd like to get stocked ahead of the gymnastics."
    Twitter: @canocola @thedreadships
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,958
    Lanterne_Rogue said:

    JimD666 said:

    Nibali has abandoned to focus on Olympics.


    His agent said Nibali "was expecting a new sofa to be delivered next week, the TV has a dodgy speaker that needs fixing, and he's got a new beer fridge that he'd like to get stocked ahead of the gymnastics."
    I am living a double life!
    Although I’m splashing out on a new TV. 😂
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,600
    andyp said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    There is a lot of focus on Ineos.

    Because it's weird tactics.

    Jumbo however, sending 3 strong guys up the road, working out who is the best and letting the other two fall back to help their GC contender at different points on the road was sensational.

    Very unlike Jumbo too as they are usually stone age in their tactics.
    Sensational? Hmm. You can't really criticise a team that wins, but if Vingegaard had needed help yesterday then the team were completely reliant on Teunissen to provide it. It was high risk. Horner rightly called them out for it on his stage analysis.
    No risk no reward. You have to make your own luck sometimes.

    Being conservative is all well when you have something to lose.
    _
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,790
    rick_chasey said:

    andyp said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    There is a lot of focus on Ineos.

    Because it's weird tactics.

    Jumbo however, sending 3 strong guys up the road, working out who is the best and letting the other two fall back to help their GC contender at different points on the road was sensational.

    Very unlike Jumbo too as they are usually stone age in their tactics.
    Sensational? Hmm. You can't really criticise a team that wins, but if Vingegaard had needed help yesterday then the team were completely reliant on Teunissen to provide it. It was high risk. Horner rightly called them out for it on his stage analysis.
    No risk no reward. You have to make your own luck sometimes.

    Being conservative is all well when you have something to lose.
    Jumbo have nothing to lose by risking it... I don't think ineos have a rider of a style that could win from those big breaks even if they stuck people in there ... castroviejo or tgh maybe . Jumbo have the 2nd best rider in the race .
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    edited July 2021
    I pointed out on twitter that for all their talent Jumbo haven't really got much out of this season so far. Gent-Wevelgem, Amstel Gold (just) and the Basque Tour. They really need something out of this race, even if it is just stages.

    By contrast Ineos have the Giro. Plus Dauphine, Tour de Suisse, Romandie, Catalunya.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,790
    RichN95. said:

    I pointed out on twitter that for all their talent Jumbo haven't really got much out of this season so far. Gent-Wevelgem, Amstel Gold (just) and the Basque Tour. They really need something out of this race, even if it is just stages.

    By contrast Ineos have the Giro. Plus Dauphine, Tour de Suisse, Romandie, Catalunya.

    There has to be a in form roglic bernal pogacar showdown next year maybe the young Dane
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    mididoctors said:

    RichN95. said:

    I pointed out on twitter that for all their talent Jumbo haven't really got much out of this season so far. Gent-Wevelgem, Amstel Gold (just) and the Basque Tour. They really need something out of this race, even if it is just stages.

    By contrast Ineos have the Giro. Plus Dauphine, Tour de Suisse, Romandie, Catalunya.

    There has to be a in form roglic bernal pogacar showdown next year maybe the young Dane

    There's still the possibility at this year's Vuelta
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,137
    This looks like being only the third time in the last 15 editions of the race where there won't be at least one rider from an English speaking country on the podium.

    Unless Donovan moves up a few more places (he gained one today with Nibali quitting) this will be lowest placed best British rider since 2008. I wonder what odds you would have had on Mark Donovan being the best placed British rider at the start of the Tour with there being 4 GT winners amongst them?

    Is it too early to say British cycling is finished? Pidcock needs to stop playing in the mud and come to the nation's rescue :wink:
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,310
    edited July 2021
    The strength of this Jumbo team so late in the race (even with reduced numbers) really emphasizes the race this Tour could have been had Roglic not crashed.



    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,533
    tailwindhome said:

    The strength of this Jumbo team so late in the race (even with reduced numbers) really emphasizes the race this Tour could have been had Roglic not crashed.



    It would have looked similar to last year, Jumbo doing the train thing, Pog and Rog scrapping for seconds, no gc racing until the flamme rouge...
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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,600
    mididoctors said:

    rick_chasey said:

    andyp said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    There is a lot of focus on Ineos.

    Because it's weird tactics.

    Jumbo however, sending 3 strong guys up the road, working out who is the best and letting the other two fall back to help their GC contender at different points on the road was sensational.

    Very unlike Jumbo too as they are usually stone age in their tactics.
    Sensational? Hmm. You can't really criticise a team that wins, but if Vingegaard had needed help yesterday then the team were completely reliant on Teunissen to provide it. It was high risk. Horner rightly called them out for it on his stage analysis.
    No risk no reward. You have to make your own luck sometimes.

    Being conservative is all well when you have something to lose.
    Jumbo have nothing to lose by risking it... I don't think ineos have a rider of a style that could win from those big breaks even if they stuck people in there ... castroviejo or tgh maybe . Jumbo have the 2nd best rider in the race .
    Ineos don't have anything to lose either! What's a second place to them!
    _
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,600
    edited July 2021
    RichN95. said:



    By contrast Ineos have the Giro. Plus Dauphine, Tour de Suisse, Romandie, Catalunya.

    They're a bit like the early Mapei team. Strongest team by far but not the strongest GC rider. A very Rominger list of races, that.
    _
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,137
    rick_chasey said:

    mididoctors said:

    rick_chasey said:

    andyp said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    There is a lot of focus on Ineos.

    Because it's weird tactics.

    Jumbo however, sending 3 strong guys up the road, working out who is the best and letting the other two fall back to help their GC contender at different points on the road was sensational.

    Very unlike Jumbo too as they are usually stone age in their tactics.
    Sensational? Hmm. You can't really criticise a team that wins, but if Vingegaard had needed help yesterday then the team were completely reliant on Teunissen to provide it. It was high risk. Horner rightly called them out for it on his stage analysis.
    No risk no reward. You have to make your own luck sometimes.

    Being conservative is all well when you have something to lose.
    Jumbo have nothing to lose by risking it... I don't think ineos have a rider of a style that could win from those big breaks even if they stuck people in there ... castroviejo or tgh maybe . Jumbo have the 2nd best rider in the race .
    Ineos don't have anything to lose either! What's a second place to them!
    Yeah, that's what makes me think Carapaz simply hasn't got the legs for it. He's probably tried more than anyone (other than maybe Vingergaard) but other than the stage where Movistar chased him down he hasn't even managed to open a gap and has then struggled to cope with riders counter-attacking.

  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,310
    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    tailwindhome said:

    The strength of this Jumbo team so late in the race (even with reduced numbers) really emphasizes the race this Tour could have been had Roglic not crashed.



    It would have looked similar to last year, Jumbo doing the train thing, Pog and Rog scrapping for seconds, no gc racing until the flamme rouge...
    Meanwhile the gap between Pog and Uran has been 5'18" since stage 9.

    No one left seems strong enough to effect the race
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,533
    tailwindhome said:

    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    tailwindhome said:

    The strength of this Jumbo team so late in the race (even with reduced numbers) really emphasizes the race this Tour could have been had Roglic not crashed.



    It would have looked similar to last year, Jumbo doing the train thing, Pog and Rog scrapping for seconds, no gc racing until the flamme rouge...
    Meanwhile the gap between Pog and Uran has been 5'18" since stage 9.

    No one left seems strong enough to effect the race
    The lack of mountain top finishes has killed it. Pogacar had to let Vingegaard go on Ventoux, but that was a really bad descent to be solo against a group on.

    We've got two finishes and a TT to change things. Carapaz has to try as he's odds on to lose time on the TT.
    Vingegaard may also have a go, he seems to be in good form and is young and ballsy.
    I don't think anyone is going to shake Pog much but there's plenty of racing for the podium
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  • larkim
    larkim Posts: 2,485
    rick_chasey said:

    mididoctors said:

    rick_chasey said:

    andyp said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    There is a lot of focus on Ineos.

    Because it's weird tactics.

    Jumbo however, sending 3 strong guys up the road, working out who is the best and letting the other two fall back to help their GC contender at different points on the road was sensational.

    Very unlike Jumbo too as they are usually stone age in their tactics.
    Sensational? Hmm. You can't really criticise a team that wins, but if Vingegaard had needed help yesterday then the team were completely reliant on Teunissen to provide it. It was high risk. Horner rightly called them out for it on his stage analysis.
    No risk no reward. You have to make your own luck sometimes.

    Being conservative is all well when you have something to lose.
    Jumbo have nothing to lose by risking it... I don't think ineos have a rider of a style that could win from those big breaks even if they stuck people in there ... castroviejo or tgh maybe . Jumbo have the 2nd best rider in the race .
    Ineos don't have anything to lose either! What's a second place to them!
    If they get Carapaz in secund place and Pog has some incident, they are in first?
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  • ocdupalais
    ocdupalais Posts: 4,313
    RichN95. said:

    mididoctors said:

    RichN95. said:

    I pointed out on twitter that for all their talent Jumbo haven't really got much out of this season so far. Gent-Wevelgem, Amstel Gold (just) and the Basque Tour. They really need something out of this race, even if it is just stages.

    By contrast Ineos have the Giro. Plus Dauphine, Tour de Suisse, Romandie, Catalunya.

    There has to be a in form roglic bernal pogacar showdown next year maybe the young Dane

    There's still the possibility at this year's Vuelta
    This wasn’t really on the cards until Rog left the Tour - must admit it’s quite a prospect as excitement in this race wanes…
    With Bernal being killer in the first part but then struggling to maintain, Pog being potentially brilliant throughout but fatigued from Tour and Rog perhaps having most to prove (also with a question over his three week capacity)… nicely setting it all up for the GTs next year…
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,600
    edited July 2021
    Avondetappen had Tom Stamsnijder on, and he was discussing the development they've had at DSM, where they're created bike kit for different parts of the body that is much less likely to rip - basically to avoid the kind of horrendous road-rash injuries we saw people like Roglic have.

    They showed a nasty crash in a women's race with a DSM rider during a bunch sprint where the baselayer didn't rip at all and so the rider only had bruises and no skin loss.

    There does seem to be more skin lost in crashes, presumably because of the more aero kit, so I thought it was a very interesting development.
    _
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,533
    rick_chasey said:

    Avondetappen had Tom Stamsnijder on, and he was discussing the development they've had at DSM, where they're created bike kit for different parts of the body that is much less likely to rip - basically to avoid the kind of horrendous road-rash injuries we saw people like Roglic have.

    They showed a nasty crash in a women's race with a DSM rider during a bunch sprint where the baselayer didn't rip at all and so the rider only had bruises and no skin loss.

    There does seem to be more skin lost in crashes, presumably because of the more aero kit, so I thought it was a very interesting development.

    Marginal Grazes?
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