TdF 2021: Rest day 2 ***SPOILERS***

No_Ta_Doctor
No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,691
in Pro race
Anything to talk about from the 2nd week's action?...
Ven TuTu won by the greatest rider of this century, Cav, Vingegaard, the polkadots battle?
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  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    Duty free shopping and a trip to Sauron's spa...


    Correlation is not causation.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Rather low on scandal or beef this tour.

    I am in the camp of sceptical about Ineos tactics.

    Heard somewhere Quintana is nursing a cold.

    _
  • Lanterne_Rogue
    Lanterne_Rogue Posts: 4,340
    One of the interesting things is how hard this Tour is being raced. There's not really been a whole day that the peloton have taken easy. Even the stage to Nimes started off with some proper echelon action before settling down to long transition nothingness.
    Twitter: @canocola @thedreadships
  • flite
    flite Posts: 227
    Does anyone know what happened to EBH? Is he ill?
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,262
    rick_chasey said:



    I am in the camp of sceptical about Ineos tactics.

    I'm not sure what people expect. The Tour is usually won by the best rider, and they clearly haven't got the best rider so their options are somewhat limited.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • salsiccia1
    salsiccia1 Posts: 3,725
    But they're still riding like they've got the best rider
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    RichN95. said:

    rick_chasey said:



    I am in the camp of sceptical about Ineos tactics.

    I'm not sure what people expect. The Tour is usually won by the best rider, and they clearly haven't got the best rider so their options are somewhat limited.
    I expect them to not use the tactics as if they do have the best rider.
    _
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,691
    Not sure whether anyone has noticed, but Carapaz isn't on the podium yet. Ineos tactics are more about trying to shake Uran and Vingegaard out (and whoever the day's rider promoted from the break is) than going hard at Pogacar.
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  • salsiccia1
    salsiccia1 Posts: 3,725
    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    Not sure whether anyone has noticed, but Carapaz isn't on the podium yet. Ineos tactics are more about trying to shake Uran and Vingegaard out (and whoever the day's rider promoted from the break is) than going hard at Pogacar.

    Fair point, but they haven't been successful on that either
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,691
    The mountains jersey is looking quite fun. Heavily contested by some very decent climbers, and apparently the greatest rider this century as well.

    What do we reckon, will the man once known as "Third Week Wout" come good, as he used to for Sky? Or has he burnt his matches in week two this time?
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  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,691
    salsiccia1 said:

    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    Not sure whether anyone has noticed, but Carapaz isn't on the podium yet. Ineos tactics are more about trying to shake Uran and Vingegaard out (and whoever the day's rider promoted from the break is) than going hard at Pogacar.

    Fair point, but they haven't been successful on that either
    No, it's all pretty deadlocked. Pogacar closed a load of the gaps yesterday, he's not that far ahead that he's just going to let them go. Possibly a little naive of him, could have let the others close them, but might have wanted to underline his superiority after Ventoux. He pretty much neutralized the podium race though
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  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,909
    rick_chasey said:



    I am in the camp of sceptical about Ineos tactics.



    big camp that

    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,262
    I think the Ineos tactics are just to make it as hard as possible and hope riders crack on the last two mountain stages. The risk is that the one who cracks is Carapaz. But the idea that he could attack and gain minutes is fanciful.

    For all the talk of tactics in sport, it's no substitute for being the best.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,909
    edited July 2021
    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    salsiccia1 said:

    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    Not sure whether anyone has noticed, but Carapaz isn't on the podium yet. Ineos tactics are more about trying to shake Uran and Vingegaard out (and whoever the day's rider promoted from the break is) than going hard at Pogacar.

    Fair point, but they haven't been successful on that either
    No, it's all pretty deadlocked. Pogacar closed a load of the gaps yesterday, he's not that far ahead that he's just going to let them go. Possibly a little naive of him, could have let the others close them, but might have wanted to underline his superiority after Ventoux. He pretty much neutralized the podium race though
    Ineos train might work on the tourmalet but they have wasted a lot of effort for no gain not sure they can muster the pace. Besides carapaz seems unable to drop anyone ahead of him so what's the point . I think he has to go long but has run out of stages to do that . I doubt ineos has a stage win in them . They are too spent .TGH in a break maybe with a few other ineos . These big breaks seen likley to go on till the end of the tour .
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,909
    Someone needs to collapse for carapaz to get on the podium
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,909
    They should have fought to keep Porte up GC . 2 to 3 mins sounds not much down now
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,024
    There is a lot of focus on Ineos.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,691
    mididoctors said:

    They should have fought to keep Porte up GC . 2 to 3 mins sounds not much down now

    Yeah, I said at the time something similar about trying to move Tao up. Not sure what's going on there, maybe they just don't have form. Tao seems to be relegated to bottle fetcher from fairly early on. I think they were probably all in for Geraint with Carapaz the distraction and long range softener and then fell apart.
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  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,909
    edited July 2021
    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    The mountains jersey is looking quite fun. Heavily contested by some very decent climbers, and apparently the greatest rider this century as well.

    What do we reckon, will the man once known as "Third Week Wout" come good, as he used to for Sky? Or has he burnt his matches in week two this time?

    They all have burnt their matches in week two . Not like one of them has been holding back . Nairo is a real yo-yo on the climbs this year . That jersey could go anywhere . Wout has a sprint on him I hadn't noticed before . Did he win lbl in a sprint ? I think he did?
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,691
    TheBigBean said:

    There is a lot of focus on Ineos.

    Nobody else seems to be trying to move the GC, aside from Vingegaard, who waits until Ineos have shaken the UAE domestiques out.

    O'connor is hanging in there and maybe looking for an opportunity if it arises, Uran and Mas and Lutsenko following wheels.
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  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,691
    mididoctors said:

    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    The mountains jersey is looking quite fun. Heavily contested by some very decent climbers, and apparently the greatest rider this century as well.

    What do we reckon, will the man once known as "Third Week Wout" come good, as he used to for Sky? Or has he burnt his matches in week two this time?

    They all have burnt their matches in week two . Not like one of them has been holding back . Nairo is a real yo-yo on the climbs this year . That jersey could go anywhere . Wout has a sprint on him I hadn't noticed before . Did he win lbl in a sprint ? I think he did?
    He's always had a decent finish. Was quite canny yesterday in letting Woods go long and then just surging past him
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  • dish_dash
    dish_dash Posts: 5,647
    TheBigBean said:

    There is a lot of focus on Ineos.

    Did you expect anything else?
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,024
    dish_dash said:

    TheBigBean said:

    There is a lot of focus on Ineos.

    Did you expect anything else?
    I can hope.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,024
    Current GC

    1   TADEJ POGACAR -
    2   RIGOBERTO URAN + 00h 05' 18''
    3   JONAS VINGEGAARD + 00h 05' 32''
    4   RICHARD CARAPAZ + 00h 05' 33''
    5   BEN O'CONNOR + 00h 05' 58''
    6   WILCO KELDERMAN + 00h 06' 16''
    7   ALEXEY LUTSENKO + 00h 07' 01''
    8   ENRIC MAS + 00h 07' 11''
    9   GUILLAUME MARTIN + 00h 07' 58''
    10   PEIO BILBAO + 00h 10' 59''

    Stage 5 TT Results

    1   TADEJ POGACAR -
    2   RIGOBERTO URAN + 00h 01' 08''
    3   JONAS VINGEGAARD + 00h 00' 27''
    4   RICHARD CARAPAZ + 00h 01' 44''
    5   BEN O'CONNOR + 00h 01' 56''
    6   WILCO KELDERMAN + 00h 01' 49''
    7   ALEXEY LUTSENKO + 00h 01' 00''
    8   ENRIC MAS + 00h 01' 49''
    9   GUILLAUME MARTIN + 00h 03' 15''
    10   PEIO BILBAO + 00h 02' 08''


    Mountains

    1   WOUTER POELS 74 PTS
    2   MICHAEL WOODS 66 PTS
    3   NAIRO QUINTANA 64 PTS
    4   WOUT VAN AERT 64 PTS
    5   BAUKE MOLLEMA 41 PTS


  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,024
    edited July 2021
    Based on the above the stage 20 TT for 2nd should be close with Vingegaard the favourite to pip Uran. Carapaz, O'Connor and Kelderman will need time in the mountains to have any hope of the podium. Lutsenko could easily more up some places and presumably he is silently riding for a top 5.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,587
    My prediction is that Carapaz will finish lower on GC than he is at present.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    TheBigBean said:

    There is a lot of focus on Ineos.

    Because it's weird tactics.

    Jumbo however, sending 3 strong guys up the road, working out who is the best and letting the other two fall back to help their GC contender at different points on the road was sensational.

    Very unlike Jumbo too as they are usually stone age in their tactics.
    _
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,691
    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    There is a lot of focus on Ineos.

    Because it's weird tactics.

    Jumbo however, sending 3 strong guys up the road, working out who is the best and letting the other two fall back to help their GC contender at different points on the road was sensational.

    Very unlike Jumbo too as they are usually stone age in their tactics.
    It was accidental. Van Aert and Kuss were supposed to be protecting Kruiswijk's break and the peloton split behind them. Source: Van Aert. All three staying ahead with only Thunissen with Vingegaard was hugely risky, but paid off with a stage win and luckily no mechanical for Vingegaard, who was alone for a while. Kruiswijk, the first back, wasn't with him for more than a couple of minutes.

    Strange to see the tactic lauded as sensational (I appreciate they got the stage) when in gc terms it did exactly the same as the very similar Ineos tactic of having two men up the road
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  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,691
    Pross said:

    My prediction is that Carapaz will finish lower on GC than he is at present.

    He's got a couple of stages to try and make a dent, presumably if one of the others has a bad day. I don't really see that happening for Uran, who has been very steady. Vingegaard may have a touch too much youthful enthusiasm than is good for a third week.
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  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,262
    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    There is a lot of focus on Ineos.

    Because it's weird tactics.

    Jumbo however, sending 3 strong guys up the road, working out who is the best and letting the other two fall back to help their GC contender at different points on the road was sensational.

    Very unlike Jumbo too as they are usually stone age in their tactics.

    Which isn't much different to what Ineos did, apart from they didn't care about the stage win and left some in the peloton so they could make the race hard.
    Twitter: @RichN95

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