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Honourable politicians.

thesquireofbanwellthesquireofbanwell Posts: 132
edited 8 May in The cake stop
Can't imagine there will be many (serious) posts but I can remember only three;
Mo Mowlam, Andrew Smith and Stephen Timms, co-incidentally all Labour.
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  • sungodsungod Posts: 13,531
    imo the lack of honourable voters is real problem, though it might also be voter idiocy

    either way, with tens of millions happy to vote for liars and traitors and cheer on the outcome, politicians will exploit that
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • morstarmorstar Posts: 4,339
    sungod said:

    imo the lack of honourable voters is real problem, though it might also be voter idiocy

    either way, with tens of millions happy to vote for liars and traitors and cheer on the outcome, politicians will exploit that

    Fptp facilitates the behaviour.
    Incompetents and contemptible characters in safe seats have no imperative to change.
  • ProssPross Posts: 27,132
    Jo Cox springs to mind. I suspect there are a few in any Parliament but by their nature they don't climb the greasy pole and stay on the back benches where we never hear of them. Phillip Hammond seemed OK.

    For what it's worth I've met the Shadow Home Secretary Nick Thomas-Symonds a few times and he seems a decent bloke.
  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 5,803
    From the Tory side, I quite liked Rory Stewart. He seemed genuinely sincere, if a little oddball!
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame ??
    Tall....
  • joe2019joe2019 Posts: 1,115
    "Women of colour" has been voted in in Scottish land, she probably counts.
  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 4,442
    Chukka umman (sp?) Seemed genuine.
  • briantrumpetbriantrumpet Posts: 6,831
    If this isn't just recent politicians, I can't imagine Willie Whitelaw, Douglas Hurd, Lord Carrington or Geoffrey Howe would have been dishonourable. Nor Shirley Williams. Or Margaret Thatcher, come to that, however much she might have been disliked by some.
  • FlâneurFlâneur Posts: 3,080
    sungod said:

    imo the lack of honourable voters is real problem, though it might also be voter idiocy

    either way, with tens of millions happy to vote for liars and traitors and cheer on the outcome, politicians will exploit that

    like people are voting in tomorrows tabloid gossip. unfair on tabloids, nearly all the papers.
    Stevo 666 wrote: Come on you Scousers! 20/12/2014
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  • oxomanoxoman Posts: 9,290
    All politicians are liars / cheats / traitors etc, all that is different is by how much and which party.
    Too many bikes according to Mrs O.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 54,963 Lives Here
    Easiest way to spot em is if you hate their politics but think they’re decent.
  • oxoman said:

    All politicians are liars / cheats / traitors etc, all that is different is by how much and which party.

    Whilst not my favourite breed of person cannot agree with that.
    It is noticeable however that of the names quoted none are servng MP's!
    I disapprove of what you say but will defend....your right to say it.
    Francois-Marie Arouet Voltaire
    08 Cotic Soda
    10 Bianchi 928 c2c
  • ProssPross Posts: 27,132

    Easiest way to spot em is if you hate their politics but think they’re decent.

    Yep, Mo Mowlem always stood out for me even though I wouldn't have voted Labour.
  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 15,964
    Baroness Warsi?
  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 5,803
    edited 8 May
    I met ex-postman Alan Johnson once, he seemed quite decent.
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame ??
    Tall....
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 54,963 Lives Here
    Imma big fan of Draghi
  • webboowebboo Posts: 3,463
    Pross said:

    Easiest way to spot em is if you hate their politics but think they’re decent.

    Yep, Mo Mowlem always stood out for me even though I wouldn't have voted Labour.
    Apparently before she was a full time politician and was a university lecturer. Young male undergraduates needed a chaperone.
  • oxomanoxoman Posts: 9,290
    edited 9 May
    Met Cameron at my last company when he opened a new facility and hosted PM,s question time in our warehouse. He and his entourage came across as right genuine corn cobs. The only genuine people around him were his security detail. Also met several local mp,s and they're all out to line their own nests.
    Too many bikes according to Mrs O.
  • oblongomaculatusoblongomaculatus Posts: 536
    edited 9 May
    How do you tell if a politician is lying?
    Their lips move.

    It's an old joke, but a good place to start with any of them. Always assume they're being deceitful until proved otherwise.
  • oblongomaculatusoblongomaculatus Posts: 536
    Example: "This is a once in a generation opportunity." Nicola Sturgeon, 2014.
    "We must have another referendum." Nicola Sturgeon, five minutes after the result didn't go the way she wanted.

    Has anyone asked her, if there's another one, and it goes the same way, will she be calling for a third, and a fourth, until people vote for independence?
  • oblongomaculatusoblongomaculatus Posts: 536
    webboo said:

    Pross said:

    Easiest way to spot em is if you hate their politics but think they’re decent.

    Yep, Mo Mowlem always stood out for me even though I wouldn't have voted Labour.
    Apparently before she was a full time politician and was a university lecturer. Young male undergraduates needed a chaperone.
    Because they couldn't be trusted to keep their hands off her, or the other way round?
  • secretsqirrelsecretsqirrel Posts: 1,235

    Easiest way to spot em is if you hate their politics but think they’re decent.

    I was listening to to Tobias Ellwood and Diane Abbott talking together on the Stephen Nolan show on R5 a couple of weeks ago. If I based my judgement on those few minutes, I would say that both were honourable. They spoke with honesty and genuine respect for each other.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 15,289

    Example: "This is a once in a generation opportunity." Nicola Sturgeon, 2014.
    "We must have another referendum." Nicola Sturgeon, five minutes after the result didn't go the way she wanted.

    Has anyone asked her, if there's another one, and it goes the same way, will she be calling for a third, and a fourth, until people vote for independence?

    Fake news.

    I always liked Tony Benn even if I disagreed with his politics he appeared to be honourable.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
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  • JezyboyJezyboy Posts: 695
    Possibly May, at least compared to her replacement.
  • orraloonorraloon Posts: 8,283
    Jezyboy said:

    Possibly May, at least compared to her replacement.

    Didn't May let Amber Rudd take the heat for the anti immigration / Windrush shambles that May got rolling?
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 54,963 Lives Here
    Quite hard to be honourable in the top job. You get given too many Sophie’s choices
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 6,231
    Politics is self selecting, like any profession. The higher you go, the more likely that undersirable character traits will have got you there.

    So I think there are a lot of honourable politicians, you've just not heard of any of them.
  • oblongomaculatusoblongomaculatus Posts: 536
    pblakeney said:

    Example: "This is a once in a generation opportunity." Nicola Sturgeon, 2014.
    "We must have another referendum." Nicola Sturgeon, five minutes after the result didn't go the way she wanted.

    Has anyone asked her, if there's another one, and it goes the same way, will she be calling for a third, and a fourth, until people vote for independence?

    Fake news.

    I always liked Tony Benn even if I disagreed with his politics he appeared to be honourable.
    How do you mean, fake news? I was paraphrasing her reaction to the independence referendum, but her attitude ever since has been to have another one as soon as possible, as far as I can see simply because she didn't agree with the result. Much as with the Brexit referendum. For months if not years after, there was frantic manoeuvring by those who didn't like the result, attempting to have it overturned. Politicians make much of their love of democracy - the will of the people and so on - but when the will of the people doesn't tally with what the politicians think, it tends to get trampled on.
  • oblongomaculatusoblongomaculatus Posts: 536

    Politics is self selecting, like any profession. The higher you go, the more likely that undersirable character traits will have got you there.

    So I think there are a lot of honourable politicians, you've just not heard of any of them.


    Well put. I think the ones with integrity fall by the wayside or get corrupted by the system, so the cabinet is always crammed full of devious, lying, unprincipled bustards. What makes Boris unusual is that he apparently doesn't care if he's caught out telling porkies.
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 6,231
    edited 9 May

    pblakeney said:

    Example: "This is a once in a generation opportunity." Nicola Sturgeon, 2014.
    "We must have another referendum." Nicola Sturgeon, five minutes after the result didn't go the way she wanted.

    Has anyone asked her, if there's another one, and it goes the same way, will she be calling for a third, and a fourth, until people vote for independence?

    Fake news.

    I always liked Tony Benn even if I disagreed with his politics he appeared to be honourable.
    How do you mean, fake news? I was paraphrasing her reaction to the independence referendum, but her attitude ever since has been to have another one as soon as possible, as far as I can see simply because she didn't agree with the result. Much as with the Brexit referendum. For months if not years after, there was frantic manoeuvring by those who didn't like the result, attempting to have it overturned. Politicians make much of their love of democracy - the will of the people and so on - but when the will of the people doesn't tally with what the politicians think, it tends to get trampled on.
    Someone asked whether a third referendum could be called by those who didn't like the result of indyref2 on r5 last night. As you might expect, it wasn't answered.

    They also asked whether they had a mandate if more people had voted for unionist parties. Again, no answer, just a mumbled "we think it will be around 50:50."

    I think the Tories will wait it out. As outlook seems brighter after covid, the Tories will bet on the mood music having changed and for support for independence to have subsided well down into to the 40's again. If steady at that level, the SNP will start to look for reasons to delay.

    SNP are only shouting for one now because the polls were so favourable for so long. They've missed the window, I think. The independence movement is always founded on disaffection and bad news, and for people to look for populist easy answers. So, the 2014 referendum was born of austerity policies and they are hoping for something similar now. There may be a short term bounce from indignance (you cannae tell us whet ta dae), but the long term trend seems to be about the same as in 2014.

    There is an argument that Westminster should call the SNPs bluff. They should also stipulate a regional lock, similar to the one the SNP argued for regarding Brexit. Indpenendence is driven by Glasgow, Falkirk and Dundee. Support is much, much lower in the south of Scotland, the highlands and islands, Edinburgh and Aberdeen.

    Even where support is high, outside of the foaming-at-the-mouth types, there is a huge amount of fatigue up here and the "not yet please" sentiment might well turn into "no". A second loss would be the end of it in our lifetimes.
  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 4,269
    edited 9 May

    If this isn't just recent politicians, I can't imagine Willie Whitelaw, Douglas Hurd, Lord Carrington or Geoffrey Howe would have been dishonourable. Nor Shirley Williams. Or Margaret Thatcher, come to that, however much she might have been disliked by some.

    that evil witch Thatcher? If you class sending young lads and lasses to war to be wounded, suffer life changing injuries and bekilled and to kill other young lads in order to win an election as honourable then i think we may have a difference in opinion.
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