Honourable politicians.

thesquireofbanwell

Can't imagine there will be many (serious) posts but I can remember only three;
Mo Mowlam, Andrew Smith and Stephen Timms, co-incidentally all Labour.

sungod

imo the lack of honourable voters is real problem, though it might also be voter idiocy

either way, with tens of millions happy to vote for liars and traitors and cheer on the outcome, politicians will exploit that

morstar

sungod said:

imo the lack of honourable voters is real problem, though it might also be voter idiocy

either way, with tens of millions happy to vote for liars and traitors and cheer on the outcome, politicians will exploit that

Fptp facilitates the behaviour.
Incompetents and contemptible characters in safe seats have no imperative to change.

Pross

Jo Cox springs to mind. I suspect there are a few in any Parliament but by their nature they don't climb the greasy pole and stay on the back benches where we never hear of them. Phillip Hammond seemed OK.

For what it's worth I've met the Shadow Home Secretary Nick Thomas-Symonds a few times and he seems a decent bloke.

elbowloh

From the Tory side, I quite liked Rory Stewart. He seemed genuinely sincere, if a little oddball!

joe2019

"Women of colour" has been voted in in Scottish land, she probably counts.

shirley_basso

Chukka umman (sp?) Seemed genuine.

briantrumpet

If this isn't just recent politicians, I can't imagine Willie Whitelaw, Douglas Hurd, Lord Carrington or Geoffrey Howe would have been dishonourable. Nor Shirley Williams. Or Margaret Thatcher, come to that, however much she might have been disliked by some.

Flâneur

sungod said:

imo the lack of honourable voters is real problem, though it might also be voter idiocy

either way, with tens of millions happy to vote for liars and traitors and cheer on the outcome, politicians will exploit that

like people are voting in tomorrows tabloid gossip. unfair on tabloids, nearly all the papers.

rick_chasey

Easiest way to spot em is if you hate their politics but think they’re decent.

thesquireofbanwell

oxoman said:

All politicians are liars / cheats / traitors etc, all that is different is by how much and which party.

Whilst not my favourite breed of person cannot agree with that.
It is noticeable however that of the names quoted none are servng MP's!

Pross

rick_chasey said:

Easiest way to spot em is if you hate their politics but think they’re decent.

Yep, Mo Mowlem always stood out for me even though I wouldn't have voted Labour.

kingstongraham

Baroness Warsi?

elbowloh

I met ex-postman Alan Johnson once, he seemed quite decent.

rick_chasey

Imma big fan of Draghi

webboo

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

Easiest way to spot em is if you hate their politics but think they’re decent.

Yep, Mo Mowlem always stood out for me even though I wouldn't have voted Labour.

Apparently before she was a full time politician and was a university lecturer. Young male undergraduates needed a chaperone.

oblongomaculatus

How do you tell if a politician is lying?
Their lips move.

It's an old joke, but a good place to start with any of them. Always assume they're being deceitful until proved otherwise.

oblongomaculatus

Example: "This is a once in a generation opportunity." Nicola Sturgeon, 2014.
"We must have another referendum." Nicola Sturgeon, five minutes after the result didn't go the way she wanted.

Has anyone asked her, if there's another one, and it goes the same way, will she be calling for a third, and a fourth, until people vote for independence?

oblongomaculatus

webboo said:

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

Easiest way to spot em is if you hate their politics but think they’re decent.

Yep, Mo Mowlem always stood out for me even though I wouldn't have voted Labour.

Apparently before she was a full time politician and was a university lecturer. Young male undergraduates needed a chaperone.

Because they couldn't be trusted to keep their hands off her, or the other way round?

secretsqirrel

rick_chasey said:

Easiest way to spot em is if you hate their politics but think they’re decent.

I was listening to to Tobias Ellwood and Diane Abbott talking together on the Stephen Nolan show on R5 a couple of weeks ago. If I based my judgement on those few minutes, I would say that both were honourable. They spoke with honesty and genuine respect for each other.

pblakeney

oblongomaculatus said:

Example: "This is a once in a generation opportunity." Nicola Sturgeon, 2014.
"We must have another referendum." Nicola Sturgeon, five minutes after the result didn't go the way she wanted.

Has anyone asked her, if there's another one, and it goes the same way, will she be calling for a third, and a fourth, until people vote for independence?

Fake news.

I always liked Tony Benn even if I disagreed with his politics he appeared to be honourable.

Jezyboy

Possibly May, at least compared to her replacement.

orraloon

Jezyboy said:

Possibly May, at least compared to her replacement.

Didn't May let Amber Rudd take the heat for the anti immigration / Windrush shambles that May got rolling?

rick_chasey

Quite hard to be honourable in the top job. You get given too many Sophie’s choices

First.Aspect

Politics is self selecting, like any profession. The higher you go, the more likely that undersirable character traits will have got you there.

So I think there are a lot of honourable politicians, you've just not heard of any of them.

oblongomaculatus

pblakeney said:

oblongomaculatus said:

Example: "This is a once in a generation opportunity." Nicola Sturgeon, 2014.
"We must have another referendum." Nicola Sturgeon, five minutes after the result didn't go the way she wanted.

Has anyone asked her, if there's another one, and it goes the same way, will she be calling for a third, and a fourth, until people vote for independence?

Fake news.

I always liked Tony Benn even if I disagreed with his politics he appeared to be honourable.

How do you mean, fake news? I was paraphrasing her reaction to the independence referendum, but her attitude ever since has been to have another one as soon as possible, as far as I can see simply because she didn't agree with the result. Much as with the Brexit referendum. For months if not years after, there was frantic manoeuvring by those who didn't like the result, attempting to have it overturned. Politicians make much of their love of democracy - the will of the people and so on - but when the will of the people doesn't tally with what the politicians think, it tends to get trampled on.

oblongomaculatus

First.Aspect said:

Politics is self selecting, like any profession. The higher you go, the more likely that undersirable character traits will have got you there.

So I think there are a lot of honourable politicians, you've just not heard of any of them.

Well put. I think the ones with integrity fall by the wayside or get corrupted by the system, so the cabinet is always crammed full of devious, lying, unprincipled bustards. What makes Boris unusual is that he apparently doesn't care if he's caught out telling porkies.

First.Aspect

oblongomaculatus said:

pblakeney said:

oblongomaculatus said:

Example: "This is a once in a generation opportunity." Nicola Sturgeon, 2014.
"We must have another referendum." Nicola Sturgeon, five minutes after the result didn't go the way she wanted.

Has anyone asked her, if there's another one, and it goes the same way, will she be calling for a third, and a fourth, until people vote for independence?

Fake news.

I always liked Tony Benn even if I disagreed with his politics he appeared to be honourable.

How do you mean, fake news? I was paraphrasing her reaction to the independence referendum, but her attitude ever since has been to have another one as soon as possible, as far as I can see simply because she didn't agree with the result. Much as with the Brexit referendum. For months if not years after, there was frantic manoeuvring by those who didn't like the result, attempting to have it overturned. Politicians make much of their love of democracy - the will of the people and so on - but when the will of the people doesn't tally with what the politicians think, it tends to get trampled on.

Someone asked whether a third referendum could be called by those who didn't like the result of indyref2 on r5 last night. As you might expect, it wasn't answered.

They also asked whether they had a mandate if more people had voted for unionist parties. Again, no answer, just a mumbled "we think it will be around 50:50."

I think the Tories will wait it out. As outlook seems brighter after covid, the Tories will bet on the mood music having changed and for support for independence to have subsided well down into to the 40's again. If steady at that level, the SNP will start to look for reasons to delay.

SNP are only shouting for one now because the polls were so favourable for so long. They've missed the window, I think. The independence movement is always founded on disaffection and bad news, and for people to look for populist easy answers. So, the 2014 referendum was born of austerity policies and they are hoping for something similar now. There may be a short term bounce from indignance (you cannae tell us whet ta dae), but the long term trend seems to be about the same as in 2014.

There is an argument that Westminster should call the SNPs bluff. They should also stipulate a regional lock, similar to the one the SNP argued for regarding Brexit. Indpenendence is driven by Glasgow, Falkirk and Dundee. Support is much, much lower in the south of Scotland, the highlands and islands, Edinburgh and Aberdeen.

Even where support is high, outside of the foaming-at-the-mouth types, there is a huge amount of fatigue up here and the "not yet please" sentiment might well turn into "no". A second loss would be the end of it in our lifetimes.

MattFalle

briantrumpet said:

If this isn't just recent politicians, I can't imagine Willie Whitelaw, Douglas Hurd, Lord Carrington or Geoffrey Howe would have been dishonourable. Nor Shirley Williams. Or Margaret Thatcher, come to that, however much she might have been disliked by some.

that evil witch Thatcher? If you class sending young lads and lasses to war to be wounded, suffer life changing injuries and bekilled and to kill other young lads in order to win an election as honourable then i think we may have a difference in opinion.

MattFalle

Paddy Ashdown

rjsterry

MattFalle said:

briantrumpet said:

If this isn't just recent politicians, I can't imagine Willie Whitelaw, Douglas Hurd, Lord Carrington or Geoffrey Howe would have been dishonourable. Nor Shirley Williams. Or Margaret Thatcher, come to that, however much she might have been disliked by some.

that evil witch Thatcher? If you class sending young lads and lasses to war to be wounded, suffer life changing injuries and bekilled and to kill other young lads in order to win an election as honourable then i think we may have a difference in opinion.

Without getting into the details of that particular conflict, that is pretty much the gig, however much it may be marketed as seeing the world and personal development. That's not to say it's a decision PM's should take lightly but it's always been a political decision.